Olds range under threat of closure

[Porcupine]

Close gun range: residents (http://www.mountainviewgazette.ca/0921_10/news06.html)
John Gleeson, Mountain View Gazette

The county will obtain legal advice and make it public after residents surrounding the Mountain View Marksman Association shooting range west of Olds lined up to demand the county make the noise stop.

Twenty-three landowners from Div. 6 and 7 signed a letter dated Sept. 1 and circulated by former councillor Jack Peck, calling for the county to start proceedings to pull the gun club’s permits and have all shooting “cease immediately on the grounds that the unnecessary noise is a huge nuisance factor” for residents in the area.

“Over the past three years several attempts have been made with the gun club and county council to arrive at a workable arrangement so the gun club could be an acceptable entity in the community,” the letter says.

“It appears that a workable arrangement will never be reached as the gun club grows in numbers; therefore closing the gun club down and forcing them to find a more suitable location outside of a resident-occupied area is the only solution.” Read more... (http://www.mountainviewgazette.ca/0921_10/news06.html)

Source; http://www.mountainviewgazette.ca/0921_10/news06.html

[Grizzly Adams]

Since I'm running for councillor, in division 6, which borders on the west side of the road, the gun range is on, part of this one would fall on me, if I'm elected. Going out to talk to some of the people there, next week. Can't say I'm unsympathetic to their problem. She's a far different deal, than when it was run by the locals and the membership was around 200. Now, they tell me it's up to 1500, the large majority from Calgary.

Grizz

[GeoTrekr]

I can understand growth being a factor here, but I would also like to know how much is truth, and how much BS is flying surrounding this issue.

I seem to recall the range hiring a professional to measure noise levels around the range, and they were negligible. It seems to me some citiots have moved out to "cottage country", and certain activities don't align with their former lifestyle...

Someone wants the range closed down, and it isn't because of the noise (as proven by some creative lying in the past as well, involving shooting at times the range wasn't even open for operation).

[SkytopBrewster]

Sucks, I was hoping to get my Black Badge Oct 1,2,3 it supposed to be at the Olds range. I live a mile from the Rocky gun club, the gunfire doesn't bother me a bit, some people.

[Porcupine]

Sucks, I was hoping to get my Black Badge Oct 1,2,3 it supposed to be at the Olds range. I live a mile from the Rocky gun club, the gunfire doesn't bother me a bit, some people.
The range is still open and probably will be for a while, regardless of what the County does. Keep in mind there's also an election going on, as Grizz mentioned a few posts ago, which will effectively put this on hold until the new County council is decided.

I also read in the county paper a few weeks ago (http://www.mountainviewgazette.ca/0831_10/news02.html) that the MVMA has money in reserve to legally challenge an attempt by the County to pull their permits to use the current site.

[260 Rem]

It never ceases to amaze me when people who buy cheap land on a quake line, and then complain when the ground starts to shake. I live at a lake that is about 2kms from a highway and 4 kms from the railway track. I guess I could complain about the noise, but they were there first...so I live with it. Would the proposed noise by-law apply to farmers shooting coyotes in that area?
Grizz - what is your "platform" position on this issue?

[ctd]

Doesn't Law Enforcement use the Olds Range also for regular training?

[Porcupine]

Doesn't Law Enforcement use the Olds Range also for regular training?
Yeah. I saw a pistol qual on the calandar for the Alberta Sheriffs in the next month or so; unless I'm mistaken, I think the Calgary Police's TAC team has used it recently, too.

[WABBIT]

I have had a membership at MVMA for quite a few years, and without a doubt it has become a gong show over the past three or four years. I can understand the locals who started it and the neighbors being a little put out.

[Grizzly Adams]

Took a few pics, this morning. Sure is a far cry from the Rocky or a couple of other ranges, I have seen. I thought a call to the weed inspector might be warranted.:D The feed back I'm getting is, Used to be a member and shoot there. Not anymore. It was built to meet the needs of the community. Doesn't do that anymore. Shut er down.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1230/4210318/19766492/392203083.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1230/4210318/19766492/392203087.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1230/4210318/19766492/392203087.jpg

Grizz

[greylynx]

This sounds just like what happened to the Strathcona range in Edmonton.

That Sux.

You guys will eventually lose out, BUT take those S.O.B. land developers, county, town, and every one else you can find that has to pay for this intrusion to task.

Get enough money to make an even nicer location. range, and of course, a clubhouse large enough for catering events.


A place that you should start planning for.

Make those *****s pay

[WLT]

As one of the evil MVMA members from Calgary, it is too bad that the voices of the membership do not count. As far as I know, this range is for members-only, so I do not know where the info about it not being a member's only range is coming from Grizz...
Here's my feedback (for what it is worth):
It IS a members-only range.
It meets my needs (and many other members).
Members from Calgary buy gas, food, etc in Olds.
Keep it open - listen to the majority.

[BigMofoFrog]

With Grizzlys's attitude, pretty soon there will be nowhere for anyone to shoot... As a member (guess what... not from Calgary), it is the only range within a reasonable distance for those north of Calgary and alot of improvements to the facility have been made. There have also been many adjustments/concessions to keep the so called peace with the neighboring residents.

But why point out the positives, just doesn't serve his agenda does it...

And he's right, the businesses of Olds obviously don't need the gas fillup I make there most weekends($75), the two/sometimes four lunches we purchase ($20+), nor the other pit stops I make while going through town. Imagine the business done during the matches. I guess the vacant shops in town might tell a different story....

[Grizzly Adams]

As one of the evil MVMA members from Calgary, it is too bad that the voices of the membership do not count. As far as I know, this range is for members-only, so I do not know where the info about it not being a member's only range is coming from Grizz...
Here's my feedback (for what it is worth):
It IS a members-only range.
It meets my needs (and many other members).
Members from Calgary buy gas, food, etc in Olds.
Keep it open - listen to the majority.

Members only? Sign on the gate says, anyone renting the range has to provide their own liability insurance. So, outside the claimed 1500 "members", it's also used by other groups, who rent it. Range is in Mountainview County and they have to deal with the flak, not Olds. Gas and food don't amount to a hill of beans. Meets your needs, but you don't live here, or pay taxes. Keep it open? Majority who can decide, reside here, not in Calgary, something that seems to be lost on the gun club and it's campaign to keep it open.

Grizz

[Grizzly Adams]

With Grizzlys's attitude, pretty soon there will be nowhere for anyone to shoot... As a member (guess what... not from Calgary), it is the only range within a reasonable distance for those north of Calgary and alot of improvements to the facility have been made. There have also been many adjustments/concessions to keep the so called peace with the neighboring residents.

But why point out the positives, just doesn't serve his agenda does it...

And he's right, the businesses of Olds obviously don't need the gas fillup I make there most weekends($75), the two/sometimes four lunches we purchase ($20+), nor the other pit stops I make while going through town. Imagine the business done during the matches. I guess the vacant shops in town might tell a different story....

I'd feel really bad, if this shooting venue is lost, because it's one of the last ones left, but somebody always has to kill the Golden goose and that's what's happening here. Vacant shops? We just got a new super mall. Olds is a thriving economic centre and wouldn't even have a minor hiccup.

Improvements? the place is a field of 3' high thistles and other weeds. Like I said, the weed inspector could come down hard on the site. Hard to believe the much maligned Homestead site, looks like this.

Grizz

[Jamie]

Took a few pics, this morning. Sure is a far cry from the Rocky or a couple of other ranges, I have seen. I thought a call to the weed inspector might be warranted.:D The feed back I'm getting is, Used to be a member and shoot there. Not anymore. It was built to meet the needs of the community. Doesn't do that anymore. Shut er down.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1230/4210318/19766492/392203083.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1230/4210318/19766492/392203087.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1230/4210318/19766492/392203087.jpg

Grizz

Grizz.. I am concerned that your political ambitions are getting in the way of something you and all of us love. Even if just one kid is up shooting at that range, isn't it well worth keeping open?
I get the feeling you are pandering for votes. I have to ask if your opposition has a different view point?
I would hope you would reconsider your position and find the positive in all of this.

Jamie

[Grizzly Adams]

Grizz.. I am concerned that your political ambitions are getting in the way of something you and all of us love. Even if just one kid is up shooting at that range, isn't it well worth keeping open?
I get the feeling you are pandering for votes. I have to ask if your opposition has a different view point?
I would hope you would reconsider your position and find the positive in all of this.

Jamie

Has nothing to do with my political ambitions, but I can see myself being dragged into this and I feel badly about it. Been a bit of a bee in my bonnet, for a long time, to see events, sadly, come to this. It's probably beyond compromise, at this stage of the game, but I think a little restraint on the part of the club could have gone a long ways to prevent this going this far. Can't remember who posted here, "we have a new executive and things are going to happen" . They certainly did.

Grizz

[Jamie]

Grizz. I enjoy this discusion.
I think you are missing the big picture here. Or perhaps I am.

What are the shooters doing wrong?
Is there a safety issue?
How could any fellow hunter want any gun range closed down?
Why are people upsett that folks from Calgary shoot out that way?
I dont see people from Calgary getting upsett that people from olds come to Costco..

What is the problem here?

I just dont get it......

Jamie

[Grizzly Adams]

sorry

[Grizzly Adams]

Too many shooters, not enough time in the day and neighbors who have gotten fed up with it. Only one ****ty, dusty gravel in and out of the place, probably doesn't help either.:lol: Pretend you're living in the country. Just down the road from you is a small time shooting range, used by the locals, casually for a little target practice and sighting in. Tournament once in a while. A little banging now and then doesn't hurt and you know most of the people involved. Now all at once, all Hell breaks loose.:lol: Guys with guns from sun up to sundown, competitions more often than not, even the cops from the big city come out to practice their skills and the dust never stops flying on the ****ty road.:lol:

You might get a little peeved too.

I think if the club wants to keep the range open, the only recourse would be to restrict it's membership numbers and and limit the number of competitions it held there. Renting out the range to other groups would also not be an option. But this would fly in the face of ambitions the executive have, so I don't see it happening.

Grizz

[BigMofoFrog]

I'd feel really bad, if this shooting venue is lost, because it's one of the last ones left, but somebody always has to kill the Golden goose and that's what's happening here. Vacant shops? We just got a new super mall. Olds is a thriving economic centre and wouldn't even have a minor hiccup.

Improvements? the place is a field of 3' high thistles and other weeds. Like I said, the weed inspector could come down hard on the site. Hard to believe the much maligned Homestead site, looks like this.

Grizz

Olds (the super mall anyway- close your eyes east of there though) is thriving because people like us are drawn to the attractions, one of those "attractions" is the range. We spend money in the community. What you don't realize is that we appreciate the privelege of having somewhere to go and enjoy our sport. You are clear in that you have an axe to grind/ulterior motive. Your "Shut er down" comment was pretty clear. I see you're running for office on a liberal platform. Good luck to you.

If you felt so bad, why do you go to such effort to destroy this for everyone else? Oh right, everyone else is the problem...

Why stop at the Range- the evil "out of towners" are using your golf course and can't get a good tee time anymore like the good ole days, better shut that down too...

[Porcupine]

So, outside the claimed 1500 "members", it's also used by other groups, who rent it.
That is true. According to the MVMA calendar (http://www.mvmarksmans.com/calendar.html), those groups include; the Didsbury Cadets, Alberta Sheriffs, and a couple of handgun shooting leagues. To name a few.
Meets your needs, but you don't live here, or pay taxes.
That is ultimately what it'll boil down to. As the NIMBY folks living in the area will be the ones casting votes for the councillors that will decide the range's fate, then it's reasonable to figure that their wishes will be reflected. Democracy in action, and all that.

The article I quoted above (http://www.mountainviewgazette.ca/0831_10/news02.html) mentioned that the MVMA's preferred solution to these issues was to (eventually) relocate the range onto a new site on Crown land. That's probably all that is left for us to do, given the prevailing attitude in the area.

Admittedly, a push for closure might actually put a sense of urgency on the MVMA board for getting a new site put together. And, hopefully, they won't be chased completely out of the County.... but, sadly, I won't hold my breath. I may well have to go to Trochu or Red Deer -- I won't like the extra drive, but what can you do?

[Porcupine]

I think if the club wants to keep the range open, the only recourse would be to restrict it's membership numbers and and limit the number of competitions it held there. Renting out the range to other groups would also not be an option. But this would fly in the face of ambitions the executive have, so I don't see it happening.

I wouldn't blame the executive for the MVMA not wanting to restrict its membership and limit the league competitions and stuff. The MVMA is declared a non-profit, and membership-driven -- so there'd likely have to be a general meeting of the membership to change their bylaws.

Given that there's a sizeable slice of the MVMA membership who would be adversely affected by such restrictions - if not an outright majority - then the vote would be a foregone conclusion.

Again, democracy in action.

[Jamie]

Too many shooters, not enough time in the day and neighbors who have gotten fed up with it. Only one ****ty, dusty gravel in and out of the place, probably doesn't help either.:lol: Pretend you're living in the country. Just down the road from you is a small time shooting range, used by the locals, casually for a little target practice and sighting in. Tournament once in a while. A little banging now and then doesn't hurt and you know most of the people involved. Now all at once, all Hell breaks loose.:lol: Guys with guns from sun up to sundown, competitions more often than not, even the cops from the big city come out to practice their skills and the dust never stops flying on the ****ty road.:lol:

You might get a little peeved too.

I think if the club wants to keep the range open, the only recourse would be to restrict it's membership numbers and and limit the number of competitions it held there. Renting out the range to other groups would also not be an option. But this would fly in the face of ambitions the executive have, so I don't see it happening.

Grizz

Ok, so its about a gravel road and some noise?
And there are 32 people complaining? Some of wich I am sure are just plain old anti gun.

Sorry Grizz, it still doesn't make much sense to me.
I see the points of extra cash pouring in, but perhaps the point you don't see is that it costs you guys nothing to have the guys come in. It sounds like a busy range, why not embrace it, charge more taxes and make some cash. Get the community involved and pave that road.

Who cares if the majority do not add to the tax base, they add to the general revenue of the whole town. Especially if it is as busy as what you state.

Do what is best for the whole area not just take care of the few complainers.

I don't like this part " A little banging now and then doesn't hurt and you know most of the people involved."

Please don't tell me these locals are afraid of the big bad boys from the city. DO NOT GO DOWN THE PROTECTIONALIST ROAD" You cant, it will be a death sentence for your fine community. Times change and people must as well.
Seems to me you have a great thing going on there. Don't allow a few misguided locals to screw it up.

Good luck
Jamie

[gitrdun]

Let me begin by saying that I don't shoot at the Olds range nor have I ever been there. It never is pleasurable to hear of the imminent shutting down of a range. Having said that, I wonder if one of the executive members has ever volunteered to spend a day at a resident's home and experience first hand the source of their aggravation. One thing that I have learned about shooting ranges lately is that only a very small number of members will actually spend the time to clean up and take care of upkeep. The majority will only show up for the shoots, but very few put in the time for basic maintenance. This is what unfortunately happens when membership grows but maintenance and upkeep does not grow porportionally. Hopefully, you guys can work something out.

[Grizzly Adams]

Let me begin by saying that I don't shoot at the Olds range nor have I ever been there. It never is pleasurable to hear of the imminent shutting down of a range. Having said that, I wonder if one of the executive members has ever volunteered to spend a day at a resident's home and experience first hand the source of their aggravation. One thing that I have learned about shooting ranges lately is that only a very small number of members will actually spend the time to clean up and take care of upkeep. The majority will only show up for the shoots, but very few put in the time for basic maintenance. This is what unfortunately happens when membership grows but maintenance and upkeep does not grow porportionally. Hopefully, you guys can work something out.

This will be my final post on the subject.:lol: I don't want to see the range shut down, but it seems inevitable. The biggest problem is that the gun club members, like some of those posting here, are not willing to accept, that they have drastically affected the Lifestyle of the people in the neighborhood . You can't turn a sleepy little range with about 200 members into one with 1500 plus and ignore the effects on the community. Where they want to stop? 10,000 members? Granted, it's a poor location, but way back, when it was built, no one had this kind of usage in mind.

Grizz

[Frans]

When all is said and done and considered, it would be very sad to be losing another shooting area.

[260 Rem]

Like it or not, "politics" are involved in every NIMBY situation...and like it or not...we have to deal with them. It's too bad the interest groups could not sit down and work out some compromises. Every Range that closes, puts that prospect one step closer to each our "own" Ranges.
If I were a member of a debt free Range with 1500 members, I would be advocating a supplimental levy for at least two years. An additional $50.00 per member would draw an extra $75,000.00 which should be enough get the area properly burmed..and the same levy a second year could be committed to building sheds with some sound supression. I would encourage local residents to lobby County Council to commit to some asphalt.
Once the area is properly burmed, sound suppression is in place, and there is an asphalt road... there should be few complaints. Oh, and perhaps the Country would agree to restrict subdivision in that area...and require realtors to show existing properties during range operational hours.

[Tinker]

Like it or not, "politics" are involved in every NIMBY situation...and like it or not...we have to deal with them. It's too bad the interest groups could not sit down and work out some compromises. Every Range that closes, puts that prospect one step closer to each our "own" Ranges.
If I were a member of a debt free Range with 1500 members, I would be advocating a supplimental levy for at least two years. An additional $50.00 per member would draw an extra $75,000.00 which should be enough get the area properly burmed..and the same levy a second year could be committed to building sheds with some sound supression. I would encourage local residents to lobby County Council to commit to some asphalt.
Once the area is properly burmed, sound suppression is in place, and there is an asphalt road... there should be few complaints. Oh, and perhaps the Country would agree to restrict subdivision in that area...and require realtors to show existing properties during range operational hours.


I'm not sure what kind of berms would satisfy the NIMBY folks. The range did intensive sound teting last year, shooting the most powerful and noisy rifles available and the sound level at various neighbours properties were at the spoken word level (not shouting). The level was significantly lower than passing gravel trucks and much lower than the neighbours tractors. I think if they walled and roofed the 10 acre range there would still be complaints. The anti gun people are much like anti smokers. Anti smokers are offended if they see people smoking: They don't have to smell it. Anti gun people just have to know there is a pop pop pop going on to get there knickers in a knot.

PS: What is the Grizz's real name. I want to make sure i don't accidentally vote for him. That much misinformation on council would be a bad thing. Next they will want to tell farmers how many cats they can have....oh wait...they already did that.

[Jim]

I guess gun owners are their own worst enemies with guys like Grizzly trying to represent the county. As a county resident and a member of MVMA I am dissapointed that a guy running for council would take this stand, instead of making suggestions to the executives of the club, he advocates shutting it down because the weeds are to high. Maybe I should phone the "weed inspector" because my 75 year old nieghbor has let the weeds on her quarter section get a little out of control.


I live down the road from SilverWillow sporting clays so I know what its like to live next to a gun club. I never expected SilverWillow to become so popular so maybe I should start campaigning to get them shutdown, after all they did just host that big competetion a couple weeks ago, I believe it was the Canadian Championships. There was just to much noise that weekend. But I think I will take the high road and not stab fellow gun owners in the back.

[Grizzly Adams]

OK, this will be my last post.:lol: Trust me, I'd be the best friend you have on council. I'm just telling you what's out there and if you want to keep shooting, you better pay attention. These people have the present council's ear and not much is likely to change. Arrogance isn't going to get you anywhere and may just be the final nail in the coffin.

Grizz

[Tinker]

OK, this will be my last post.:lol: Trust me, I'd be the best friend you have on council. I'm just telling you what's out there and if you want to keep shooting, you better pay attention. These people have the present council's ear and not much is likely to change. Arrogance isn't going to get you anywhere and may just make things worse.

Grizz

This from the man that says "Just shut it down".

Still waiting for your ballot name so I don't make a mistake.

[Porcupine]

If I were a member of a debt free Range with 1500 members, I would be advocating a supplimental levy for at least two years. An additional $50.00 per member would draw an extra $75,000.00 which should be enough get the area properly burmed..and the same levy a second year could be committed to building sheds with some sound supression.
There have been some improvements made to the berms and range facilities (http://www.mvmarksmans.com/documents/general/2009-CFEP-diagram-01.pdf) in just the past few years by the MVMA. But, it doesn't seem to make a difference -- especially not to the NIMBY neighbours who just want it closed, regardless.

And it looks like the MVMA now has a Catch-22 when it comes to further improving the range. The club's executive seems quite willing to make more improvements, but they feel they have to sit on the money it has in the bank, now, in order to have it available to mount a legal challenge to any attempt by the County to kick them out.

[260 Rem]

Can't argue with the wisdom of setting aside a "legal fund"...and the progressive range improvments certainly look like significant effort has been made to keep everybody safe. I hope you can keep us updated regarding "developments"... I suggest that if it becomes a legal challenge, your Exec consider asking for some financial support from other clubs.

[.264 Win Mag]

Gun club was there first. It's like building next to the train tracks then complaining about the noise from the chu chu's. It's sad to see a fellow shooter and hunter running for election and saying the gun range will need to be shut down. What next hunters saying the long gun registry is a good idea? The gun club owns the land and has rights to. I fail to see how local business's don't benefit from hosting matches there and having lots of members. Anyone thought of telling the people that if they don't like it THEY can move? I don't know whether or not I would want to live close to a gun range but I would decide that before i bought a place next to one.

Nothing sounds better than gunfire in the morning:lol:

[Solothurn]

Unfortunately with the continued growth of the town of Olds, the MVMA ranges days are numbered.
The executive of this club, of which I have been on for the last 4 years have tried everything reasonable to appease the MD and the residents in close proximity.
We conducted sound tests that proved the range was FAR less of a noise pollutant than the gravel pit or neighboring farm tractors, this testing was conducted AFTER we scraped most of the vegetation up to move more dirt around to increase the berm heights so we we well beyond berm height compliance guidelines.

As we pointed out to the MD once new vegetation was established the sound reflecting off of the now barren ground would diminish. Not good enough for the neighbors, they insisted on an instant solution but had none to offer.

The MVMA has set hours of operation so as to eliminate early morning or evening shooting.

We have met with the neighbors, some are quite reasonable, others are not at all despite the fact that they are NOT effected any more by the range than by overhead aircraft noise.

The MVMA has spent many thousands of dollars upgrading the range for the good of all, we have 1 of the few gun clubs that has not started to turn members away as the CFC is now requiring proof of gun club membership for owning restricted firearms.

Guys like Grizz and the others who are bound to help get this club shut down fail to understand that of the 1500 members about 70% are ghost members who simply have membership in order to be legally compliant to own restricted firearms. These folks like many politically motivated types (Wendies) prefer to ignore reality when it is not conducive to their cause.

Interstingly 1 of the councillors is co-owner of a sporting clays and bird shooting facility. She is all for closing the club but defends the shotgun crowd as being of a different class.:confused:

Several of the founding members have taken upon themselves to "create" bad press, and start issues for the club that is not in any way helpful.
It would seem that rather than accepting progress they would prefer to kill what they started years ago. I wonder how they will make out in keeping their restricted firearms when there is no club in the MD?

The executive are in negotiation with the province for another piece of property in order to develop another range location. We DID approach the MD for a land swap at a location further from town , but they would have no part in helping with the problems.

A study was done on the economic impact of the club and it was found that the MVMA injected several MILLION dollars into the Olds economy every year.

All in all I guess that the MD would rather have people shooting randomly around the MD kinda like Toronto is now rather than in 1 controlled and safe location.
It is truly sad when a FEW folks in a small town have such a small minded approach to life.

Maybe the informed types like Grizz would prefer that the various law enforcement agencies NOT practice their firearms skills, as there is NO ranges in and around the Calgary area for them to use. I know I would feel warm and secure knowing that the cops had no practical experience with a gun.:thinking-006:

Imagine if us "city slickers" adopted the attitude that we do not want rural folk in the city and made it well known that they were unwelcome, well guess what? That is exactly what is happening but in reverse.

I think it behooves the Mountainview county populace to find out what is REALLY going on with regards to the MVMA range BEFORE voting for councillors.

[Porcupine]

Can't argue with the wisdom of setting aside a "legal fund"...and the progressive range improvments certainly look like significant effort has been made to keep everybody safe. I hope you can keep us updated regarding "developments"... I suggest that if it becomes a legal challenge, your Exec consider asking for some financial support from other clubs.

I'll keep you posted, but I'll admit I'm pessimistic about the range's future at its current location. As I said before, the neighbours who want the range gone are the ones casting the votes that will elect the County councillors -- who will in turn decide the range's fate. As there's large share of the MVMA members who reside outside the county, as a group we simply don't have that political pull.

Guys like Grizzly -- hunters and gun owners, who say on one hand that they don't want to see the range closed -- apparently seem quite willing to go along with the NIMBYs and tacitly support the effort to kill the range for the sake of being elected. It's unfortunate, but I don't hold that against him at all. That's just politics. But, if he figures he'd be the "best friend" the MVMA could have on council, it doesn't bode well at all for the range staying on the current site.

However, the MVMA prez has opened a door by stating publicly that the club's preferred solution is moving the range away to a new site, on Crown land. Honestly, that sounds like the only long-term, viable option available to the MVMA, if we all want to continue to operate a range. And it might be better use of the Association's money to try and get there, than keeping it in reserve to fight a legal battle to keep the current site open -- with the same hostile neighbours.

My hope would be that a new councillor would seize on that suggestion and push the County and the MVMA to work together to arrange a new site for the range, and keeping it in Mountain View County. As others have said, the range does bring visitors and business to Mountain View and the communities in the County -- that shouldn't simply be dismissed out of hand.

Given the size of MVC, there's most likely Crown land in the county which could suit the MVMA's needs and be out of the way enough to not cause such a fuss.

[Grizzly Adams]

This from the man that says "Just shut it down".

Still waiting for your ballot name so I don't make a mistake.

You really need to read my post again. I'm just passing on the Public sentiment, as it is being expressed to me. You're not in Division 6, so I won't have to worry.:lol: If, on the off chance I was elected, I'd be one of 7 councillors, the other 6 certainly have no interest in keeping this thing going and would show no mercy. The County still does have a noise bylaw in abeyance, which would allow it to regulate hours, so this might still come about.

Grizz

[Accubond]

Just a couple of points:

Pretty sure the gravel pit across from the range and the accompanying gravel dump trucks stir up more dust than MVMA member vehicles.

I don't think Calgary gun owners have louder guns than anyone else, so when the phase "take over by Calgarians" is used by the original range founders it becomes obvious what the agenda is. By the way at a typical match there are people from Edmonton, Red Deer, Drumheller, Medicine Hat, Lethbridge, Surrey BC etc..

It seems that this is a case of a semi-private range for a select few locals turning into a muti-use facility for southern Alberta. Now with closure starting to look like a foregone conclusion, why would the MVMA put any more money into it?

[Ardent]

This will be my final post on the subject.:lol: I don't want to see the range shut down, but it seems inevitable. The biggest problem is that the gun club members, like some of those posting here, are not willing to accept, that they have drastically affected the Lifestyle of the people in the neighborhood . You can't turn a sleepy little range with about 200 members into one with 1500 plus and ignore the effects on the community. Where they want to stop? 10,000 members? Granted, it's a poor location, but way back, when it was built, no one had this kind of usage in mind.

Grizz

I hope to goodness you don't get elected. I looked at your photos there of the range, and have never been, but instantly thought "looks like a nice range". It's sad seeing hunters and shooters trying to abolish one of our own venues. Your talk about weeds and the weed inspector is absolutely ridiculous, you sound like your grasping for straws against the range while on the other side of your face you're trying to sound like you're all for the range "but sadly...". Here's to whatever candidate is trying to preserve our establishments, unfortunately, you're already becoming a good politician by your double-talking stance on the issue (a bad thing).

As for this range, who was there first, the cottage acreagers or the range? When was this range founded? If it was before most of the residents arrived to cottage country Alberta, they should have known they were buying close to an established shooting range. If the people were there first, and the range built in the midst of a heavily populated rural acreage area, their argument holds more water.

[Tinker]

I looked to see if Wendy Cuckier is running in Division 6 but no luck. Will the real Grizzly Adams please step forward?

William Davies
Ken Heck
Paddy Munro
Bob Nerrie
Hans Ullmann

I'm not sure. Can anybody help me? It is fairly obvious he is afraid to let voters know his real position. I guess 1/2 dozen votes isn't enough. He will need to trick a lot more people by hiding his opinions until after the election.

[Porcupine]

As for this range, who was there first, the cottage acreagers or the range? When was this range founded?
I don't know how long the neighbours have been there; but, I do know that the range was founded in 1982.

[Ardent]

Good deal I would suggest residents who've owned land since 1981 and prior would have a say then, if they moved to the area after that, they knew they were buying beside a range. We had the same thing happen with an airport I used to fly out of, a beautiful little regional strip. It was actually a training airfield and was used to train pilots in WWII, and prior. Then people started buying right beside it in the 1990's and complaining about the noise, hard to believe, but true.

It has come to a head recently, and the airport is holding its own. It was there first. How busy it is doesn't matter a hoot, the facility exists, and whether its capacity was being fully used in the past or not is irrelevant. What is relevant is that people buying knew, or should know by doing their homework there's a airport / shooting range / gravel pit you name it there. grizz seems not to realize this and is apparently more concerned with political employment than shooting sports and heritage. To each their own, I just hope he doesn't get votes.

[Porcupine]

Can't argue with the wisdom of setting aside a "legal fund"...and the progressive range improvments certainly look like significant effort has been made to keep everybody safe. I hope you can keep us updated regarding "developments"...

Got an email, just yesterday, that the MVMA was in the process of getting electricity to the range; I guess Fortis Alberta will be installing a pole shortly. The power will be used for lights and for the electronic gate that's been discussed earlier -- the club was asking for a master electrician to volunteer their services, to help out.

So, things are moving along to further improve the current site -- Just maybe not as fast as the neighbours would like.

[Solothurn]

Took a few pics, this morning. Sure is a far cry from the Rocky or a couple of other ranges, I have seen. I thought a call to the weed inspector might be warranted.:D The feed back I'm getting is, Used to be a member and shoot there. Not anymore. It was built to meet the needs of the community. Doesn't do that anymore. Shut er down.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1230/4210318/19766492/392203083.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1230/4210318/19766492/392203087.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1230/4210318/19766492/392203087.jpg

Grizz


WELL THANK YOU Mr. Ullman (AKA Grizzly Adams) for following through and calling Jane the county weed inspector. Too many wanna be politicians yap about what they plan to do, nice to see some of you actually do so.
I believe that we (the MVMA) have now the distinguished position of having the only complaint lodged against them AFTER the weeds and cover crop for new vegeatation to help with sound reduction has died.
Nice to see you are working hard to make an impression.
I sincerely hope all MD residents see you for what you are and vote accordingly.

[Porcupine]

WELL THANK YOU Mr. Ullman (AKA Grizzly Adams) for following through and calling Jane the county weed inspector. Too many wanna be politicians yap about what they plan to do, nice to see some of you actually do so.
I believe that we (the MVMA) have now the distinguished position of having the only complaint lodged against them AFTER the weeds and cover crop for new vegeatation to help with sound reduction has died.
Nice to see you are working hard to make an impression.
I sincerely hope all MD residents see you for what you are and vote accordingly.
Didn't he say that the MVMA range isn't even in Division 6, where he's running, but in Division 7 on the other side of the road?

Pretty rude, all the same. How many complaints were there, when the weeds were still alive and growing?

[longshot]

Didn't he say that the MVMA range isn't even in Division 6, where he's running, but in Division 7 on the other side of the road?

Pretty rude, all the same. How many complaints were there, when the weeds were still alive and growing?

Not 1 compliant until yesterday. Coincidence?? I doubt it.

[Full Curl]

Mr. Ullmann, I am a Division 6 resident as well as a member of the MVMA. I can assure you that my vote on the 18th will not be in your favor. There are numerous quotes from your previous posts in this thread that lead me to wonder why you feel you would do a good job representing our division?

Your use of smilies in your posts make you come across as a ***t disturber.
Am I wrong?

Will you be at a public forum before election day so that I might hear you speak, rather than try and interpret what is written here?


Through your posts, it seems as though you really don't want the range to remain.
Maybe I'm missing something in the way your posts are written?

I do believe that there will need to be some future changes to how the range is operated, but I hope this doesn't turn into a case of 23 "squeaky wheels" getting the grease.

It can be a dusty road, but as mentioned before the gravel pit traffic is likely a major contributor to that.

Membership may have ballooned, but perhaps that is a positive thing by having shooters using a designated spot rather than random public lands.

Noise study should have been the end of that issue?

Are those in opposition to the range actually bothered by it or are they fearful about safety?

Does former councillor Peck feel like he needs a bit of attention, so he works up some others and goes for 15 minutes of fame by being the guy who shut the MVMA down?

[Jamie]

Grizz...

Looks like you are being welcomed to politics.

Make sure you have your "Poop in a Troop"

This could get really interesting.

As to the Weed stuff...

CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP!!!!! Very bush league. But I doubt it was Grizz that called it in. I would imagine it was one of the few complainers who happened to read this board.
For that reason alone, I would look at donating in order to keep this range. I hate sucker punches.

Jamie

[Porcupine]

Not 1 compliant until yesterday. Coincidence?? I doubt it.
Oh, that's wonderful.

Jamie, Solothurn sits on the MVMA board, so he'd be the one receiving the complaint directly from the County about weeds. I'm not certain if the County's weed inspector is expected to keep the complainant's identity confidential when passing it on to the property owner being complained about. Some municipal departments will, some won't. He could clear that up for you.

Even if Grizzly didn't call it in, like you said the idea came from somewhere. At the top of this page, he says he'd be the "best friend" the MVMA could have on County council; with friends like those....

[Ardent]

If he tried pulling the weeds card, he has lost all respect from me and hopefully a large swath of constituents. I've never even heard of a weed complaint, and I live on acreage, so if this was Grizz well done on doing about the weasliest thing possible. If this was not Grizz, so be it and I retract, and driect the comments at whoever did make the complaint. Underhanded... greasy... conniving... pathetic thing to do, whoever it was.

[.264 Win Mag]

Wierd that after the threat about calling a weed inspector that it happened whether it was Grizz or not, the idea came from here I would bet. That is pretty low, but i guess that's politics.:shark: I really hope those that are members and users of the gun range come out and see who not to vote for, at least in my opinion anyway.

[Porcupine]

CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP!!!!! Very bush league. But I doubt it was Grizz that called it in. I would imagine it was one of the few complainers who happened to read this board.
For that reason alone, I would look at donating in order to keep this range. I hate sucker punches.
If it wasn't Grizz who called in the weeds complaint to the County, I'd figure he'd have jumped into this thread again to clear it up and defuse the criticism by now. He's running for office, after all - one would think unfounded allegations and rumours that could negatively effect his candidacy, would be nipped in the bud straight away.

In any case, it sounds like there's a few people who will want to talk to him on the subject during the all-candidates' forum in Olds on the 5th.

[Porcupine]

Action on gun range ruled out (http://www.mountainviewgazette.ca/1005_10/news08.html)
Anti-noise bylaw to return; planned policy could review status of tax-exempt properties
John Gleeson, Mountain View Gazette

Mountain View County’s lawyer has advised council not to take legal steps to shut down the Marksman Association Gun Club range west of Olds after residents appealed to the county to pull the club’s development permit.

In her response to the residents’ request, lawyer Sheila McNaughtan notes that section 7.3 of the land-use bylaw authorizes the county to cancel, suspend or modify a permit if:

* The development application contains a misrepresentation.
* Facts concerning the application of the development were not disclosed, which should have been disclosed at the time the application was considered.
* The development permit was issued in error.
* The applicant withdrew the application.
* The conditions imposed on the development permit have not been complied with.

“In our opinion, based on the information that was provided to us, including the fact that the permit was issued 28 years ago, the factual basis which would entitle the approving authority to act under section 7.3 does not exist,” wrote McNaughtan, who’s with the firm Reynolds, Mirth, Richards and Farmer LLP.

As well, she wrote, “given the very limited conditions which have been placed upon the development permit issued for the shooting range, the county is not in a position where it could issue a Stop Order requiring the developer to do something to bring the development into compliance with the terms of the permit.”

Instead, McNaughtan recommends council pass an anti-noise bylaw. Read more... (http://www.mountainviewgazette.ca/1005_10/news08.html)

Source; http://www.mountainviewgazette.ca/1005_10/news08.html

[Nester]

Since I'm running for councillor, in division 6, which borders on the west side of the road, the gun range is on, part of this one would fall on me, if I'm elected. Grizz





Took a few pics, this morning. Sure is a far cry from the Rocky or a couple of other ranges, I have seen. I thought a call to the weed inspector might be warranted.:D The feed back I'm getting is, Used to be a member and shoot there. Not anymore. It was built to meet the needs of the community. Doesn't do that anymore. Shut er down.

Grizz




Good luck with that "Councillor"........you have picked your side already :sHa_sarcasticlol:



I'll be sure to let prominent voters know that your post on this forum and how you babble in that special politician way. :sHa_sarcasticlol:



Good luck "councillor" you need it.....badly :sad0020:






OK, this will be my last post.:lol: Trust me, I'd be the best friend you have on council. I'm just telling you what's out there and if you want to keep shooting, you better pay attention. These people have the present council's ear and not much is likely to change. Arrogance isn't going to get you anywhere and may just be the final nail in the coffin.

Grizz


Just wow :confused:

[Grizzly Adams]

If it wasn't Grizz who called in the weeds complaint to the County, I'd figure he'd have jumped into this thread again to clear it up and defuse the criticism by now. He's running for office, after all - one would think unfounded allegations and rumours that could negatively effect his candidacy, would be nipped in the bud straight away.

In any case, it sounds like there's a few people who will want to talk to him on the subject during the all-candidates' forum in Olds on the 5th.

Been avoiding this conversation, cause it causes me no end of blood pressure problems,:lol: but that definitely is not my style. If I pointed out there was a weed issue, it was probably obvious to anyone driving by. Don't recall ONE question about the range, at the forum. As it stands, there is not a single gun friendly member, on the present council. Mostly neutral, but recognisant of a problem.

Grizz

[Nester]

Weed control...too funny!!


That'll show em!! :confused:

[eltorro]

What is the situation witht the range right now?

[Accubond]

SHUT DOWN

http://www.mvmarksmans.com/

[Nester]

Nicely done Olds Councilors..and wannabe "Councilor" Hans Ullmann :rolleye2:

[Grizzly Adams]

Nicely done Olds Councilors..and wannabe "Councilor" Hans Ullmann :rolleye2:

Ok, So please tell me how I managed to accomplish this.:lol: My distinctive role in this, is that I have contacts on both sides and had a pretty good idea how it was going to play out. Lot's of little hints on my side, what might save the day, but you didn't catch on. Good luck with that range in K country. Feeling is that will be a Long time, if ever.:D


Grizzly Adams aka Hans C. Ullmann:lol:

[gopher]

Ok, So please tell me how I managed to accomplish this.:lol: My distinctive role in this, is that I have contacts on both sides and had a pretty good idea how it was going to play out. Lot's of little hints on my side, what might save the day, but you didn't catch on. Good luck with that range in K country. Feeling is that will be a Long time, if ever.:D


Grizzly Adams aka Hans C. Ullmann:lol:

Just wondering y you would wish that the club in K country would have a hard time in getting going?

[Grizzly Adams]

Just wondering y you would wish that the club in K country would have a hard time in getting going?

Not wishing, but I recognize there are going to be major hoops to leap through, before this happens, some of them may be insurmountable. This is 2011, after all. If I were a member, I'd be asking the directorate if this a real option, or are they just throwing it out to placate the membership

Grizz

[Grizzly Adams]

Not wishing, but I recognize there are going to be major hoops to leap through, before this happens, some of them may be insurmountable. This is 2011, after all. If I were a member, I'd be asking the directorate if this a real option, or are they just throwing it out to placate the membership

Grizz

Too late to edit, but if I was SERIOUSLY looking for a new range location, I'd be looking on the Forest reserve, outside of K Country. I sure wouldn't open that can of worms. You'll be fighting everyone, from the Sierra Club Down.:lol:

Grizz

[mjohn7]

Too late to edit, but if I was SERIOUSLY looking for a new range location, I'd be looking on the Forest reserve, outside of K Country. I sure wouldn't open that can of worms. You'll be fighting everyone, from the Sierra Club Down.:lol:

Grizz

The purposed location is on the same road as three other active ranges. So- how would this be a problem?

[mmmax]

Looks like gun owners have a thing or two to learn from skateboarders. Skaters use to be the enemy, with boards being confiscated by the policy and bylaw officers. Now some of them are getting funded with public money to build and maintain stake parks. Look at the two in Calgary!! Airdrie, Banff, Black Diamond, Brooks, Canmore, Drayton Valley, Provost etc want to see the list of 50 plus skate parks? http://www.skateparktour.ca/AB/index.htm

What are they doing to get this kind of support?
What should we be learning from them?

[surfclod]

Sadly the MVMA is one of very few options for Calgary shooters.

If the APRA clubs would ever take on new members I am sure most Calgarians would go out there to shoot. I tried contacting them via email and got no reply then called and left messages and got no response. About a year later a guy I know who doesn't even have his PAL or own any guns said that he is now a member of one of the APRA clubs (I forget which one). If you are not part of the Good Old Boys club then you are SOL. I gave up on the APRA option and have been a member of MVMA for a couple years now.

Sometimes we gun owners can be our own worst enemies.

[NoKlu]

Looks like gun owners have a thing or two to learn from skateboarders. Skaters use to be the enemy, with boards being confiscated by the policy and bylaw officers. Now some of them are getting funded with public money to build and maintain stake parks. Look at the two in Calgary!! Airdrie, Banff, Black Diamond, Brooks, Canmore, Drayton Valley, Provost etc want to see the list of 50 plus skate parks? http://www.skateparktour.ca/AB/index.htm

What are they doing to get this kind of support?
What should we be learning from them?

This must be a joke. You are comparing skateboard parks to rifle ranges? :bad_boys_20:

[mmmax]

Oh my mistake comparing the struggles of a gun range to the struggles of getting public money, public land for a skate park. Stake bordering is way more dangerous than a gun range with people going to the hospital with concussions, broken bones and knocked out teeth so often that on busy days an ambulance is posted at the skate park. When events are held ambulances and medical personal are required. Not to mention the noise of board slamming the pavement and grinding metal across cement. Somehow this group was able to convince municipalities, that are extremely risk adverse, to fund and support their sport. The dangers/liability of a skate park are way more than a gun range with a way smaller proportion of the population able to participate in skateboarding than in the shooting sports, nothing to learn there. A shooting range should be a snap to get approved compared to a skate park what was I thinking.

[260 Rem]

mmmax - your argument makes perfect sense but before it would have any chance of success...shooters would have to be bored adolescents hanging around parks, and on street corners--- and looking like they might be interested in a bit of public mischief! It might be difficult to convince some of my fellow pensioners to don baggy pants with waistbands at crotch level...but admittedly, we would be a pretty scary looking bunch.

[1badman]

why stop at olds ? if 35 people can shut down this one , how many will shut down the next one , all the ranges are subject to close ! then you have a bunch of people with guns and no legal place to shoot them , that is the big pic ! sounds very liberal, Is there a little red in Alberta today ? Im a member of the MVMA , i do not live in Calgary ! I live in a small town outside the limits it is just as hard for me to find membership in a range as someone in the city , 35 people are happy 1000s will be sad ! my 2 bits

[Nester]

Hey Central Alberta shooters...now what range do we use? :confused:


Gotta go dust off the pistolas! :sHa_shakeshout:


Hate the hill too the Red Deer range; expecially in winter. Rocky Mountain House is 90 minutes away...

[gophinator]

i know its a little late, but after reading this thread here are some facts, up to and including the date it was shut down mvma had roughly 1100 members... and as per the log in sheets 50% of said members shot there. the other 50% became members just to aquire there ATT. and that out of the 1100 members about 670 were from calgary, and out of that roughly 250 of the calgary members shot there on a regular bases...

[twofifty]

imo, the executive of all clubs with a still operating approved range should give some thought to taking preventive defensive action.

There are lots of political, institutional and governance threats out there, and some of those are probably just over the horizon.

[Nester]

Anything new?

[gophinator]

just got an e mail from them, you should have it too.

[ditchpickle]

just got an e mail from them, you should have it too.

I am also a member, but did not receive any email from them recently.

The last thing I got was on January 6 2012, saying there PO box was shut down.

These guy are really awful at communicating with there members.

What was said in the email?

[gophinator]

I am also a member, but did not receive any email from them recently.

The last thing I got was on January 6 2012, saying there PO box was shut down.

These guy are really awful at communicating with there members.

What was said in the email?

Just basically there working out the issues and its taking time...
And there's two options for memberships, 1 if you want to stay for another year, re do the membership form and they will roll the 2011 membership fee into 2012 and send out another card. Or send a email saying you want out and they will refund 2011. The range is still not open and there still working on it, that's the gist...

[WLT]

Gophinator:
Would be willing to post a copy of the e-mail you received from the MVMA? Many 2011 members (most of the ones I spoke with) apparently did not receive this recent e-mail regarding membership options for 2012.
Thanks in advance...

[NoKlu]

The membership being rolled over depends on whether the range will be open or not. They have to do something quick or the money will dry up.

[gophinator]

they said there having problems with the e mails reaching everyone and shaws working on that problem, if you dont have yours shortly let me know and ill post it or pm it, i dont want to jump the gun to early and post it for everyone to see... meaning the certian individuals that would spin it around. and such...

[monsterxlr8]

Has there been any news about the olds gun range? Does it look like they will succeed in reopening? Just moved to the area and am looking for somewhere to shoot close to home.

[calgarychef]

Most of this noise problem would have been eliminated by the legalisation of suppressors. As far as new inhabitants complaining because if a range that was there first well tough titty says I.

[calgarychef]

Grizz, maybe the next thing is the neighbours complaining about you shooting on your own land. We really need to stand up and keep the ranges we already have in this province because its almost impossible to start new ones.

[Grizzly Adams]

Has there been any news about the olds gun range? Does it look like they will succeed in reopening? Just moved to the area and am looking for somewhere to shoot close to home.

Keep checking the paper. They'll have to come before Council before anything happens. Myself, I think she's a dead issue. Seems to be a lack of motivation on the executive's part and they've had lots of time to get the ball rolling. Button hole some of the guys on the fringe every time I see them and even they are frustrated. :D

I know, Chef , how difficult it is about ranges, but you can only squeeze so many people in a Volkswagen. :lol:

Grizz

[V-Diddy]

Has there been any news about the olds gun range? Does it look like they will succeed in reopening? Just moved to the area and am looking for somewhere to shoot close to home.

My friend phoned the president of MVMA yesterday to inquire about 2013 membership. He was told that an email is coming within a week or two with a membership form and that there will be no additional charges for 2013 memberships. Also, it sounds like they may have made some progress in their attempts to re-open the range. Hopefully we will find out more from this email...

[twofifty]

How long has the Olds range been closed?

[V-Diddy]

How long has the Olds range been closed?

I believe it has been almost two years now.

[monsterxlr8]

If the olds range does stay closed, where is the closest range that is approved for restricted weapons? It is stupid that you can't shoot them on your own private land but a rifle you can. That's the government for you.

[samb]

Any updates?

[geriatric]

Any updates?

Also, does anyone know what is happening with, or has happened to the club's bank account ??
If I remember from one of the last meetings, now several years ago, it was fairly healthy, and well over $100,000.00 at that time. So where's that money now ????