Is a Crossbow More Bow or Gun?

[ishootbambi]

simple enough question. do you think a crossbow is closer to a gun in its characteristics and performance, or a bow?

[DJS]

I think anyone who knows anything about crossbows won't argue that they can shoot farther than a bow. But in their characteristics they shoot more like a gun. No draw, alot less movement when preparing for a shot, the abliity to shoot while looking through a scope, so on and so on......

[Huntwriter]

Is a Crossbow More Bow or Gun? A crossbow is definitely a bow. If anything we would have to ask; Is a gun more like a crossbow? The reason being that the crossbow has been in use in its basic shape and design for about 1,000 years before the gun has been invented. The crossbow has been in use at least as long as the longbow. There is archeological evidence that suggests that both bows have been invented around the same time but in different parts of the world.

As for performance compared to a modern compound. Both are about the same. A crossbow generally creates more speed but the arrows are much shorter than normal arrows. A shorter arrow, although it might fly further, quickly looses energy that is needed to kill an animal at any distance over 40 to 50 yards.

Has a crossbow advantages over a regular bow? Not really other than a device that holds the string back. From personal experience with compound, traditional and crossbow I would say that in many regards the crossbow has more disadvantages.

Maneuverability, or better the lack of it, is a considerable disadvantage and the reason why I use my crossbow only from treestands or ground blinds.

Weight is another disadvantage. Most crossbows weigh between 6 to 8 lbs.

A crossbow is a true one-shot weapon. No matter how fast you are there is no way that you can set the string and load another arrow as fast as you can on a traditional or compound bow should you need a second shot. I can nock a second arrow on my compound bow and be ready to shoot in less that 2 seconds if I have to, no way I can accomplish that even close with a crossbow.

Despite all this, it is my firm opinion, based on experience, that a crossbow is a valuable archery weapon and should have its rightful place in the bowhunting season. As I stated elsewhere, 30 years ago the same debates raged about compound bows when they came on the market. Many bowhunters back then feared that this "modern contraption" would be the doom of bowhunting and the bows with heavy lobbying from archery clubs were outlawed in many American states and Canadian provinces.

However, as we all know the compound bow made bowhuting popular beyond the wildest imaginations. Now bowhunting is once more in sharp decline and who knows the crossbow might just be the ticket to popularize it again. The market share of crossbows has North America wide gone up more than 60% over the past four years. That is good news as many new hunters, but also older hunters that would otherwise have to give up bowhunting, purchase now crossbows as more and more jurisdictions make them a legal hunting weapon for all hunters.

[Huntwriter]

No draw, alot less movement when preparing for a shot,

Actually I found that the amount of movement is about the same as with a regular bow. I can bring a compound or traditional bow slowly up and pull the string back at the same time, all in one smooth movement. It's one of the reasons why I keep a relatively low draw weight of 65 pounds. Shooting a crossbow I still have to bring it up and get in position too.

... the abliity to shoot while looking through a scope, so on and so on......

Again I find not much difference in aiming at a critter using sight pins or a scope. Besides where legal you can use scopes for compound bows too. All these devices do is to show me where the impact will be. But to get it to do that I still have to put diligent practice time in at the range to get proficient and properly sighted in.

[NBFK]

If there is no advantage with a cross bow why dosnt pope and young recognize it. I will continue to support the ABA in keeping them out of archery seasons. Once they are allowed there goes our general seasons. Harvest levels would increase greatly. My opinion buy a compound bow put time in like the other dedicated bow hunters.

[DJS]

Actually I found that the amount of movement is about the same as with a regular bow. I can bring a compound or traditional bow slowly up and pull the string back at the same time, all in one smooth movement. It's one of the reasons why I keep a relatively low draw weight of 65 pounds. Shooting a crossbow I still have to bring it up and get in position too.



Again I find not much difference in aiming at a critter using sight pins or a scope. Besides where legal you can use scopes for compound bows too. All these devices do is to show me where the impact will be. But to get it to do that I still have to put diligent practice time in at the range to get proficient and properly sighted in.

Come on, are you for real?? The more posts I read of yours the more I really start to question the "hunting expertise" you have previously talked about in the other thread. If you really have hunted with both weapons you know that the movement required to shoot a bow is far more than a crossbow. You could be in a kneeling postion with a crossbow on your knee and stay that way for a long time. In this same postion with a bow you could have the bow at the realy but you still have to draw which takes more movement than just bringing up a crossbow and sqeezing the triigger. I would even go so far as to say you could bring a cross bow up very very slowly with a whitetail looking directly at you and still get off a shot. No way in h--l would you do this with a bow.

Again, the practice time with each weapon is not even close. The average guy could not purchase a bow and in the same day be hunting it (even though I know this probably ahppens) but it's easily done with a crossbow. Just sight it in and away you go.
As for the scope vs pins, do you not agree that magnifying an animal with a scope is an advantage? Be serious.

[CNP]

Ridiculous poll and it has bias written all over it...

It's performance is that of a bow, it's characteristics are that of a firearm. The characteristcs require you to operate it as you would a firearm (you shoulder the xbow, sight down the rail (or scope), remove the safety and squeeze the trigger. It has a buttstock, a forestock, a rear and front sight mounted to the rail (or a scope), a safety and a trigger assembly. It has disadvantages and advantages over a bow. Advantage number one is that you don't need to know how to hunt with a bow......and number two is that you can shoot at anything that comes into view from your treestand without fear of being busted by drawing your bow. Like I said earlier.......almost guaranteed to kill anything that comes into view from your stand. For non-archers, since there is no archery season for bear, it's a great tool for killing bear over bait.

I've bow hunted for many years and I own an Excalibur Exomax crossbow. It's a great crossbow. From a treestand, a crossbow is by far a superior killing machine. If they were legal my tag to harvest percentage would be close to 100% (maybe 100%) on say moose, deer, elk and bear. Now those are some good odds. No wonder there are guys just itchin' to make this happen. Hunters (non-archers) calling other hunters (archers) greedy or selfish or other insulting names for not agreeing that xbows should be included in archery is just wrong. If it isn't wrong then I can say that hunters (non-archers) are just to lazy to take up bow hunting. It's not a season for archers....it's a season for hunters to take up a bow and go bowhunting. But then again some would rather complain year after year after year, never pick up a bow all that time, wear you down until the politicians give in and make it so. Doesn't that sound familiar in politics? Who wants nationally subsidized day-care? Who wants free medical? Who wants free education? Who wants free everything? (besides Jack Layton). People who want other people to pay their way want those things.

[DJS]

Ridiculous poll and it has bias written all over it...

It's performance is that of a bow, it's characteristics are that of a firearm. The characteristcs require you to operate it as you would a firearm (you shoulder the xbow, sight down the rail (or scope), remove the safety and squeeze the trigger. It has a buttstock, a forestock, a rear and front sight mounted to the rail (or a scope), a safety and a trigger assembly. It has disadvantages and advantages over a bow. Advantage number one is that you don't need to know how to hunt with a bow......and number two is that you can shoot at anything that comes into view from your treestand without fear of being busted by drawing your bow. Like I said earlier.......almost guaranteed to kill anything that comes into view from your stand. For non-archers, since there is no archery season for bear, it's a great tool for killing bear over bait.

I've bow hunted for many years and I own an Excalibur Exomax crossbow. It's a great crossbow. From a treestand, a crossbow is by far a superior killing machine. If they were legal my tag to harvest percentage would be close to 100% (maybe 100%) on say moose, deer, elk and bear. Now those are some good odds. No wonder there are guys just itchin' to make this happen. Hunters (non-archers) calling other hunters (archers) greedy or selfish or other insulting names for not agreeing that xbows should be included in archery is just wrong. If it isn't wrong then I can say that hunters (non-archers) are just to lazy to take up bow hunting. It's not a season for archers....it's a season for hunters to take up a bow and go bowhunting. But then again some would rather complain year after year after year, never pick up a bow all that time, wear you down until the politicians give in and make it so. Doesn't that sound familiar in politics? Who wants nationally subsidized day-care? Who wants free medical? Who wants free education? Who wants free everything? (besides Jack Layton). People who want other people to pay their way want those things.

Well said!

[NBFK]

Wow EHNTR you couldn't have put it better plus coming from someone with x bow experience! Glad there's voices of reason out there somewhere!

[pottymouth]

There is NO Right answer for this poll if your an advocate for Xbows not belonging in the Archery season.

The 1st and 3rd are similar answers worded differently !

I vote D

A xbow may have relatively similar characteristics of a bow , limbs, string and arrow tradjectory , but that where the similarity ends ! The rest of the characteristics and components come from the Gun !

[pottymouth]

1) Here is the definition of a bow straight from the Alberta Hunting Regulations.

Persons hunting big game must use an authorized bow and an authorized arrow. An authorized bow is one that is held, drawn and released by muscular power and has a draw weight of not less than 18 kg (40 lb.). This is the number of kilograms (pounds) required to draw an arrow of 71 cm (28 in.) to its head.

Xbows also have mechanical drawing devices, no muscle required

2) If Xbows and Bows are the same, Why is there an eligability permit required for handicap, amputee and injured archers on an annual basis from SRD. If they are the truely same they should be interchangeable in the arms of anyone, much like a gun and xbow are !!

3) If they are the same, I would challenge anyone to; pull back a bow, aim, and accurately arrow an animal while Lying flat on there belly, similar to a Xbow.

4) Bows #1)Do not have rest capabilities, #2) Require muscle strength to draw and release an arrow #3) Do not have a locking mechanism to hold the draw #4) Can not be fired with one hand #5) Major movement of 2 arms , chest and back are required to pull back the bow, seconds before trying to shoot an animal. The challenge of bowhunting. #6) Proficiency with a bow may take alot longer than a crossbow. A crossbow has a faster learning curve , about equal to a gun, to shoot.

[Rocks]

Doesn't matter. The current definition of archery equipment is good. Plus if you are determined to get into hunting, or only hunt with a crossbow you can, during all our general hunting seasons.

I still don't get why the guys who want crossbows added to archery season can't see that it will result in decreased hunter opportunity. Or maybe that's what they want, jealous of the bowhunters??

[ishootbambi]

Once they are allowed there goes our general seasons.

i wont speak for everyone, but im am not calling fellow archers insulting names. the quote here is a very common feeling from bowhunters however and if that doesnt say greed, then how would you describe it? i dont mean to pick on NBFK, he's just the one who said it here. the sense of entitlement to general tags does show a little selfishness. sorry if that offends you.


also NBFK, P&Y once did not allow compound bow killed entries, and up until very recently had a letoff restriction on compound bows. that seems pretty silly now doesnt it?

[Rocks]

i wont speak for everyone, but im am not calling fellow archers insulting names. the quote here is a very common feeling from bowhunters however and if that doesnt say greed, then how would you describe it? i dont mean to pick on NBFK, he's just the one who said it here. the sense of entitlement to general tags does show a little selfishness. sorry if that offends you.


also NBFK, P&Y once did not allow compound bow killed entries, and up until very recently had a letoff restriction on compound bows. that seems pretty silly now doesnt it?

Ya but isn' that what the crossbow guys want, the access to general tags? But do they know if the xbow is allowed the general tags may disappear??

[ishootbambi]

i dont know what they want. i can only answer for myself. my opinion is that they were placed in the wrong category in the first place. they have pretty well identical practical range to a compound.....pretty well identical speeds.....and pretty well identical success rates everywhere they are currently allowed. seems to me that the same arguments seen on this are the same arguments when compounds were new.....too fast, too much range, letoff lets you hold it too long, so much easier to learn. if crossbows had been accepted at the same time compounds were we wouldnt be having this debate today. there are a ton of places that already allow them and the results are in. archers in those places arent on a widescale movement to ban them because they have seen that they have pretty well the same results that compounds do.

[Huntwriter]

If you really have hunted with both weapons you know that the movement required to shoot a bow is far more than a crossbow.

Maybe it is for you but for me it is not that big of a diference.
You could be in a kneeling postion with a crossbow on your knee and stay that way for a long time.
Most hunters find it very difficult to hold a crossbow in the ready to fire position for an extended length of time due to the relativey heavy weight of the weapon. I can hold a compound or my traditional bow much longer without fatigue. Whereas for the crossbow I require a rest to keep it steady on waiting periods that exceed more than three minutes. This in turn reduced considerably my mobility.
In this same postion with a bow you could have the bow at the realy but you still have to draw which takes more movement than just bringing up a crossbow and sqeezing the triigger.
If you have a moderate draw weight pulling the string slowly back -I do that as I raise bow - you can do that with very little movement. Having said that, as a guide I have seen many bowhunters that pulled 70+ pounds and resort do all sorts of gymnastics to come to full draw, especially in very cold weather.
I would even go so far as to say you could bring a cross bow up very very slowly with a whitetail looking directly at you and still get off a shot.
I tried that once and it didn't work, just like it doesn't work with a compound bow.
Again, the practice time with each weapon is not even close. The average guy could not purchase a bow and in the same day be hunting it (even though I know this probably ahppens) but it's easily done with a crossbow. Just sight it in and away you go.
I never said proficiency could be achieved in the same time with a compound as with a crossbow. However, there is no way that you can achieve proficiency with a crossbow in one day. It is statements like yours that give new and young hunters a false image of crossbows as a buy and hunt weapon. On the other hand a compound bow does not nearly require as much practice either as some make it out to be. Once a compound it sighted in, the bow and arrows are tuned it takes only a few days to get proficient. When compounds came first on the market that was one of the major complaints bowhunters had back then. "It's to easy" they said. That same argument we hear today about crossbows. I just don't get it what the degree of difficulty to become proficient with a weapon has to do with the subject. It's an issue that will puzzle me for ever. As far as I am concerned the easier something is to learn and the faster a hunter can get out in the field and hunt the better.
As for the scope vs pins, do you not agree that magnifying an animal with a scope is an advantage? Be serious.
To be truthful with you magnification at close range can actually be more of a hindrance then a bonus. It's the single reason why my scope is turned always to its lowest setting and often I find this to much too. I've contemplated to install a pin sight on my crossbow because of that.

[pottymouth]

seems to me that the same arguments seen on this are the same arguments when compounds were new.....too fast, too much range, letoff lets you hold it too long, so much easier to learn. .

I hear this comparison alot, Compounds and long bows, fundementally are Identical in everything, including looks. Everyone will agree that compond and long bow look nothing like a xbow.

The sad fact is that since the inclusion of compounds , the long bow is becoming a thing of the past, a lost art sort of speaking. Will xbows do the same to compounds???? IF your predictions are true, then the fate of compounds maybe already sealed !!!


Once a compound it sighted in, the bow and arrows are tuned it takes only a few days to get proficient.:rolleye2:

So a man with all your days of expirence,and proficiencey How many National 3D titles or Fita titles do you hold ???:sign0176:

[ishootbambi]

then why do compounds still enjoy popularity everywhere crossbows are currently allowed? im going from memory, but i think its ohio that has allowed crossbows since 1982, yet compounds remain very popular today. and......now you are concerned for the fate of crossbows? thats the first youve said anything about that.

[pottymouth]

then why do compounds still enjoy popularity everywhere crossbows are currently allowed? im going from memory, but i think its ohio that has allowed crossbows since 1982, yet compounds remain very popular today. and......now you are concerned for the fate of Compounds? .

I fixed your post, so it would make a little more sense. And I was asking a question, if compounds would eventually recieve the same fate as the long bow?

There definatly has to be a time that technological advancement has to stop!!,, for the sake of the animals! Might as well start somewhere like here ! Or I would hate to imagine whats next done the line !!!

[NBFK]

They are our general tags as albertans to be lucky enough to use. This isn't selfish joe blow can go buy a bow and a general mulie take and giver. But once srd takes general tags away from over havest because of high success rates who's selfish then. The guy who didn't want to buy a compuond and complained to get x bow season in. Or the bow hunters who always encourage people into the sport through local clubs and organizations. For hunt writer to generalize on how easy archery is with tuning and such maybe you should how a work shop for all of us who are missing what you have. Also maybe a crossbow is a good option for an uncoordinated individual as yourself keep pushing crossbows we will all loose.

[ishootbambi]

:

So a man with all your days of expirence,and proficiencey How many National 3D titles or Fita titles do you hold ???:sign0176:

i have won every one that i have entered.

[TreeGuy]

SRD must start collecting manditory hunter success statistics. Until proper records can be garnered, and a database generated, these arguments are just that........arguments.

[pottymouth]

i have won every one that i have entered.

Entered 0 ...LOL

[HunterDave]

I hunt with a crossbow as I have a permanently wonky shoulder that won't allow me to draw a conventional bow safely. It seems to me that some people think that just because you are using a crossbow you are instantly going to be able to harvest a deer, moose or elk with it. NOT TRUE! You still have to do everything the same things that a conventional bowhunter would have to do. Scout areas and select the best spot to hunt, get in and out of your deerstand undetected, enter the area scent free, make sure that the wind is blowing in the right direction, wear quiet clothing, and everything else that needs to be done to improve your success.

The only advantages to using a crossbow is that the string does not have to be drawn when you are ready to use it (less movement) and perhaps the ability to add a scope to a crossbow. I have a red dot on mine so I have to practice to learn where the red dot must be placed on the animal at varying distances.

One disadvantage for the crossbow in comparison to a conventional bow is that it is only effective at shorter distances because it looses energy allot quicker. 50 yds would be my absolute farthest shot on a deer because after that the penetration is significantly lower that a conventional bow.

As for calling a crossbow a gun........when they invent one that'll allow me to sit on a tree stump, have a pop and a cigarette and shot something 300 yards out into the field, then I will class it as a rifle.

[Huntwriter]

Once a compound it sighted in, the bow and arrows are tuned it takes only a few days to get proficient.:rolleye2:

So a man with all your days of expirence,and proficiencey How many National 3D titles or Fita titles do you hold ???:sign0176:

Never took part in any 3-D or any other archery competitions. I am a bowhunter not an archer. What I mean by that is that I have zero interest in archery as a sport whatsoever. All my practice is strictly aimed at killing a deer not scoring points. When I first got into bowhunting 35 years ago it took me about three days, after the bow was properly set up tuned and sighted in, to consistently hit a 6" circle at 35 yards. I've to admit that I had a very good teacher. He spent all day long, with short breaks, shooting with me. I didn't find it all that difficult to get proficient, but then again I do not take long shots either. The majority of my shots are inside the 20 yard mark. I like game close so I can see the colour in their eyes. :) That is what thrills me about bowhunting and why I do it.

Now when I started with a traditional bow that was a whole different story. This took a long time, and as any traditional archer will agree, real dedication just to get to the point of the arrows hitting where I was looking at. Still, to this day I do not feel competent to use that bow for anything else but fun stump shooting. I had a shoulder injury and couldn't shoot a bow for well over two years. When I picked the compound up it took me less than two hours to get hang of it again. It took me over two month with the traditional bow, it was like starting from scratch. Maybe I have special talent for compound bows and not for traditional bows. :)

[DJS]

So lets ask this question to all the people out there who are in favour of introducing xbows into the archery seasons.
If this happens which weapon will you use? A bow or a crossbow? And be honest.

[catnthehat]

Comparing and lumping the cross bow in with archery gear is like lumping spears in the same category.
The crossbow IMO is neither a rifle nor a bow, it is something all by itslf.

However, if a seperate season were made fpor the cross bows, then somebody else would "lose" part of their season.
Crap, if the length of season is that important, just pick up a crossbow like they do in other parts of the country.
Myself, I have aboutr as much interest in them as an inline, but if Iwanted to hunt with either it would in a regular season, the same as Ido up here with my flat bow.
Cat

[Chevy 454]

They are our general tags as albertans to be lucky enough to use. This isn't selfish joe blow can go buy a bow and a general mulie take and giver. But once srd takes general tags away from over havest because of high success rates who's selfish then. The guy who didn't want to buy a compuond and complained to get x bow season in. Or the bow hunters who always encourage people into the sport through local clubs and organizations. For hunt writer to generalize on how easy archery is with tuning and such maybe you should how a work shop for all of us who are missing what you have. Also maybe a crossbow is a good option for an uncoordinated individual as yourself keep pushing crossbows we will all loose.

I am an Albertan,born and raised, and do buy the general tag for mulies some years for archery season. You say you don't want to lose the general tags Albertans are entitled to because of too many hunters in archery season, then in your next breath say you encourage more people to join in.(As long as they are your kind of people).
Personally,I think you guys are expecting way beyond worst case scenario. I think most guys who try crossbow will be rifle hunters who are out a couple weekends a month and coupled with the fact they will have to get much closer than with rifles, most will not even shoot a arrow at a deer let alone fill their tags. I am not sure where to look but I think there is stats on the average # of days in the field per hunter and unless it has changed since I saw it, they are dismally low. There is not going to be a huge harvest change unless these hunters can put in a lot more time in the field than I suspect they do now.

[Tatonka]

Or.........Is a modern compound bow more like a crossbow or more like a longbow or recurve? I've not hunted with a crossbow.....never have shot one, but I currently have 3 compounds, 2 longbows, and 2 recurves. I enjoy shooting all of them and have killed animals with all of them, and I can tell you that killing a critter with a traditional bow is very, very different (much more difficult) than killing a critter with a modern compound. In my mind, a crossbow is neither a compound or a rifle and a compound is neither a crossbow or a recurve.... They are all very different weapons with different limitations.

I"m guessing that if P&Y did not allow critters to be entered into their record book that were killed with a compound bow, there would be no P&Y club. They depend on people paying the entry fees to exist. I could care less..... I personally don't believe in record books and measuring animals, but that's neither here nor there.

If they had a "Rock Season", I'd probably be out thowing rocks at them. :fighting0030:

[NBFK]

I am an Albertan,born and raised, and do buy the general tag for mulies some years for archery season. You say you don't want to lose the general tags Albertans are entitled to because of too many hunters in archery season, then in your next breath say you encourage more people to join in.(As long as they are your kind of people).
Personally,I think you guys are expecting way beyond worst case scenario. I think most guys who try crossbow will be rifle hunters who are out a couple weekends a month and coupled with the fact they will have to get much closer than with rifles, most will not even shoot a arrow at a deer let alone fill their tags. I am not sure where to look but I think there is stats on the average # of days in the field per hunter and unless it has changed since I saw it, they are dismally low. There is not going to be a huge harvest change unless these hunters can put in a lot more time in the field than I suspect they do now.


Success rates will be greater with a crossbow than a compound. If you think the general seasons wouldn't be affected by higher hunter numbers with even higher success rates then I think you would be in for a surprise. Oh well just another thread of complaining about losing your mule deer opportunities. We shoot ourselves in the foot all the time. I.E the antlerless season up north during the spring. Now the mule deer population has suffered from hard winters over harvest and people are devasted.

[Okotokian]

It's performance is that of a bow, it's characteristics are that of a firearm. .

That is EXACTLY right. And it's keying in on characteristics instead of performance that has those idiots in Ottawa classing some semi-automatic firearms as "Restricted" because they are BLACK AND HAVE A HANDLE ON TOP!!!!!!!!!

"What can it do?" is the essential question, not "What does it look like?" or "How do you work it?" It takes longer to learn how to use a bow proficently? So what? It's easier to drive an automatic than a stick. Would you advocate separate lanes for cars with manual transmissions?

[buckfever6]

If there is no advantage with a cross bow why dosnt pope and young recognize it. I will continue to support the ABA in keeping them out of archery seasons. Once they are allowed there goes our general seasons. Harvest levels would increase greatly. My opinion buy a compound bow put time in like the other dedicated bow hunters.


X2!!!

[thegunman]

You can give the most un-experienced person a crossbow. They can then shoot a 190 mule deer at ninety yards.The new PSE Tac 15 shoots at 405 feet per second and will shoot a 1 inch group at a 100 yards. Is that called bow hunting. No. Bow hunting takes skill.

[JohnB]

You can give the most un-experienced person a crossbow. They can then shoot a 190 mule deer at ninety yards.The new PSE Tac 15 shoots at 405 feet per second and will shoot a 1 inch group at a 100 yards. Is that called bow hunting. No. Bow hunting takes skill.

I wish it was that easy to kill a 190 mule.

[YoungBuck]

i hope they NEVER allow crossbows in Archery only seasons. It will introduce a whole other croud that isn't willing to put in the time to ethicaly use a bow to hunt.

[medicmoose]

Ya know I just don’t think introducing crossbows to archery season will change much. The hardest part has been and always will be getting within the effective range of the weapon for an ethical kill. That’s why not many people are willing to put in the effort you out in 10 stalks or more for everyone that goes right. Lots of variables to play with wind, cover, direction of travel act. Modern compounds are simple to shoot and anyone can learn one in an afternoon, Like anything rifle or bow it take practice and experience to be able to stalk and kill and animal in the field. I’m sure crossbow sales will go up (big deal good for the economy). Maybe more guys out there in the field (we learn how to share in kindergarten). But to say so many animals will be getting killed over 50 yards plus is an exaggeration. I think with change or the potential for change people get scared and have there backs up if they think they stand to loose.

Just my 2 cents don’t light me up about it.

Matt

[monsterxlr8]

As i see it the xbow and the vertical bow (compound, long bow and recurve) are all what I would call primative weapons. You need to be able to get within the same close distances. 40 yards or less. I know there are hunters out there that feel cofortable taking longer shots but I don't. the kentic energy may be diferent between them all but to that distance they all kill the same. So I say why not add them to the archery season, if some rifle hunters decide to try it out.... GREAT I'll take it. If or when they master the needed skills to tag an animal, right on way to go. They can't go out with their rifle and bag another one. So a tag filled is a tag filled. why fight over it lets just go hunting.

[ishootbambi]

Also maybe a crossbow is a good option for an uncoordinated individual as yourself keep pushing crossbows we will all loose.

if you are going to try to insult me, at least get yer poop straight. check out the other crossbow thread for pics of my reezen.

[ishootbambi]

Also maybe a crossbow is a good option for an uncoordinated individual as yourself keep pushing crossbows we will all loose.

if you are going to try to insult me, at least get yer poop straight. check out the other crossbow thread for pics of my reezen.

Entered 0 ...LOL


:sign0066:

[ishootbambi]

So lets ask this question to all the people out there who are in favour of introducing xbows into the archery seasons.
If this happens which weapon will you use? A bow or a crossbow? And be honest.

bow......if for no other reason than im cheap and i have 1700 bucks into my setup. :bad_boys_20:

[ishootbambi]

Success rates will be greater with a crossbow than a compound. .


you are confusing harvest rates with success rates. success rates are virtually identical everywhere they are allowed now. that trend will continue. what will increase is harvest rate, and yes that may mean a draw in some areas for some species.

[ishootbambi]

You can give the most un-experienced person a crossbow. They can then shoot a 190 mule deer at ninety yards.The new PSE Tac 15 shoots at 405 feet per second and will shoot a 1 inch group at a 100 yards. Is that called bow hunting. No. Bow hunting takes skill.

wow....thats the most ridiculous thing in this thread. thats a good joke man....we need to keep it lighthearted. :sHa_shakeshout:

[NBFK]

if you are going to try to insult me, at least get yer poop straight. check out the other crossbow thread for pics of my reezen.

Matthews sells bows to anyone lol! But seriously if you are so proficient with a compound why are you so x bow pro. This year there were a few zones that lost their bull moose general season. Most like from overharvest. So if you honestly think that a few thousand more hunters with higher success rates than compound hunters isn't going affect any future changes then this whole discussion is pointless. I wish some ABA memebers who have some more solid facts could back me up on this. I already found several cross bow bolts in a few of my spots in the bowzone which were most likley shot from the road. So yes I already have a bad taste and there not even leagal to shoot there yet.

[AbAngler]

You can give the most un-experienced person a crossbow. They can then shoot a 190 mule deer at ninety yards.The new PSE Tac 15 shoots at 405 feet per second and will shoot a 1 inch group at a 100 yards. Is that called bow hunting. No. Bow hunting takes skill.

Check your facts there bud. I'll let you figure out why the TAC 15 would be restricted.

On second thought, maybe I should explain given your level of intellect might not be up to it... AR-15 lower.

I can't believe some of you guys. Drinking the ABA cool-aid I guess. Hmmmm, look at the poll results so far.

[AbAngler]

I wish some ABA memebers who have some more solid facts could back me up on this.

They won't because there are none. Read the stickied thread. Lots of real numbers from areas where crossbows are permitted.

I already found several cross bow bolts in a few of my spots in the bowzone which were most likley shot from the road.

Of course you did.

[wilburhunter]

I have a question for the people who want crossbows in archery season.

What is the real reason you personally want to include crossbows in this season?

Please don't give me the same tired old answer that this is the season they belong in. This could be debated till the end of time. Just like I feel modern muzzle loaders belong in the general firearms season. If there is no advantage gained (some people say even less of an advantage) by using a crossbow over a vertical bow, no opportunity for increased harvest and most importantly no increase in overall hunter numbers. Why the big push? What is to be gained for the entire hunting community that isn't already there for them?

[mclean]

AbAngler is correct when he stated that the PSE Tac 15 shoots 405 ft. a sec., will shot a 1 inch group at 100 yards,
I feel that if archers want an archery season on its own, it should be recurve only, then have compounds and crossbows in a same time slot.

[NBFK]

AbAngler Quote:
Originally Posted by natural.born.fawn.killer
I wish some ABA memebers who have some more solid facts could back me up on this.

They won't because there are none. Read the stickied thread. Lots of real numbers from areas where crossbows are permitted.


Quote:
Originally Posted by natural.born.fawn.killer
I already found several cross bow bolts in a few of my spots in the bowzone which were most likley shot from the road.

Of course you did

IF you want there carbon express and I can give them to yeah to get your cross bow career started!

[whitetail Junkie]

I voted Neither.Just my opinion.

This is'nt the Time of year we should be debating topics like this.everyone go and hunt.lets save this for the winter when there is no hunting,and we got nothing better to do.

Speaking of that,I should be hunting now,but unfortunatley a man still has to go to work,even in the hunting season.:mad0100:

[Okotokian]

i hope they NEVER allow crossbows in Archery only seasons. It will introduce a whole other croud that isn't willing to put in the time to ethicaly use a bow to hunt.

That's a pretty broad generalization there. Got any evidence?

[thegunman]

you are confusing harvest rates with success rates. success rates are virtually identical everywhere they are allowed now. that trend will continue. what will increase is harvest rate, and yes that may mean a draw in some areas for some species.

Ya lets have to get drawn to be able to go hunting,sweet:rolleye2:

[ishootbambi]

I have a question for the people who want crossbows in archery season.

What is the real reason you personally want to include crossbows in this season?

Please don't give me the same tired old answer that this is the season they belong in. This could be debated till the end of time. Just like I feel modern muzzle loaders belong in the general firearms season. If there is no advantage gained (some people say even less of an advantage) by using a crossbow over a vertical bow, no opportunity for increased harvest and most importantly no increase in overall hunter numbers. Why the big push? What is to be gained for the entire hunting community that isn't already there for them?

who said no overall increase? there certainly will be an increase in numbers. the advantage gained to some people is the ability to bowhunt when you otherwise couldnt. ow many stories have we heard of injured people who cant get a permit now? my wife is an example at the moment. she had a major surgery in may and still cant pull her bow. she will be ok for next season im sure, but this year she's out. not the end of the world for her to miss a year, but what about thise whose injuries are permanent, yet not deemed bad enough. cant pull a bow, yet cant get a permit. there are several that fit that description. what about kids. the young fella miskosky would like to use his crossbow, but is denied.....for what.....because some guys arent willing to share and feel entitled to their own season with unlimited tags.


QUOTE=thegunman;693648]Ya lets have to get drawn to be able to go hunting,sweet:rolleye2:[/QUOTE]


yes, that has been a common theme. we get it that many guys feel a sense of entitlement to unlimited tags and dont want to share.

[wilburhunter]

[QUOTE=ishootbambi;694058]who said no overall increase? there certainly will be an increase in numbers. the advantage gained to some people is the ability to bowhunt when you otherwise couldnt. ow many stories have we heard of injured people who cant get a permit now? my wife is an example at the moment. she had a major surgery in may and still cant pull her bow. she will be ok for next season im sure, but this year she's out. not the end of the world for her to miss a year, but what about thise whose injuries are permanent, yet not deemed bad enough. cant pull a bow, yet cant get a permit. there are several that fit that description. what about kids. the young fella miskosky would like to use his crossbow, but is denied.....for what.....because some guys arent willing to share and feel entitled to their own season with unlimited tags.


The same studies that said there was no significant increase in success rates that all the pro crossbow guys use also states that there was no significant increase in "overall" hunter numbers. So as a recruitment tool crossbows are not effective.

With your wife I have now heard of a whopping 2 people that have applied that have been denied.

How about this.

Instead of opening it up to everyone and there dog. They allow people under 16 and over say 55 to use crossbows. Also leave the stipulation that a person with a permanent disability that restricts them from using a vertical bow can receive a permit.

Does anyone see any problems with this?

[wilburhunter]

Nice double post.

[ishootbambi]

my wife was not denied....she did not apply. i dont believe she would qualify as her situation is not permanent, but it doesnt matter. she has no interest in using one.....it was just an example. if you have only heard of one other person being denied, you have not read all of this topic in 4 threads spanning 30 odd pages. there have been at least 4 others here on AO.

as for hunter numbers, it is agreed that the majority of crossbow hunters would come from the guys already hunting with other weapons....i dont argue that. what it will create is a wave of new bowhunters....at least at first. the vast majority of them will give it up within 2 years as they discover that bowhunting isnt as easy as the myths say it is, and soon enough life will be very similar to what it is now. really.....there is too much hype over something that isnt going to be near as catostrophic as some think it will. ive asked before and noone said anything. do you guys think there is this kind of uproar in the places that have allowed crossbows for 30ish years? noone is banging the drum to ban them there as they have seen the truth for a long time. this is nothing more than unfounded fear of change.

[wilburhunter]

So once again, if there is no advantage gained (some people say even less of an advantage) by using a crossbow over a vertical bow, no opportunity for increased success and most importantly no increase in overall hunter numbers. Why the big push? What is to be gained for the entire hunting community that isn't already there for them?

Basically you are saying that change for the sake of change is fine. You said the youngsters should be able to use crossbows I agree. Seniors should be able to use crossbows. I agree. People with permanent disabilities should be able to use crossbows. I also agree with this. I do not agree that crossbows should be allowed for everyone in the archery season. As your poll has proven the majority of people do not think they are a bow. I am one of those who think that a crossbow does not belong in archery season for the reasons I have stated previously.

Since your wife was not denied that leaves only 1 person I know of that has been denied.

I still have yet to get a response from anybody on why they personally want crossbows in the archery season. I really wish someone would give me an answer and not the pat answer that that is where they belong.

[pottymouth]

my wife was not denied....she did not apply. i dont believe she would qualify as her situation is not permanent, but it doesnt matter. she has no interest in using one.....it was just an example. if you have only heard of one other person being denied, you have not read all of this topic in 4 threads spanning 30 odd pages. there have been at least 4 others here on AO.

as for hunter numbers, it is agreed that the majority of crossbow hunters would come from the guys already hunting with other weapons....i dont argue that. what it will create is a wave of new bowhunters....at least at first. the vast majority of them will give it up within 2 years as they discover that bowhunting isnt as easy as the myths say it is, and soon enough life will be very similar to what it is now. really.....there is too much hype over something that isnt going to be near as catostrophic as some think it will. ive asked before and noone said anything. do you guys think there is this kind of uproar in the places that have allowed crossbows for 30ish years? noone is banging the drum to ban them there as they have seen the truth for a long time. this is nothing more than unfounded fear of change.

Some of the states your refering to don't even have a rifle season, or have seasons of days to a week long for each weapon. Most of those places the guys are just happy to have a season.

WB, poses a great question , that nobody wants to answer, ....Why they personally want crossbows in the archery season, other than, cause they belong..........????

Here's the Regs from Ohio, the " crossbow " state , and why in makes sense to xbows there, but not here !

http://ohiodnr.com/wildlife/dow/regulations/seasons.aspx

http://ohiodnr.com/wildlife/dow/regulations/hunting_deer.aspx

For whitetails ( the only deer species they got )

Key dates Archery season ( including Xbows ) Sept 25 - Feb 6

Rifle + Muzzleloader days combined only = 16 days all together !!!

Bag limits vary in the state , depending in which zone you fall.

A=2 B= 4 C= 6, Divide by 1/2 to get the buck tags allowed.

Now if we had a season that long, that didn't really allow rifles, shotguns and muzzleloaders, it would more than make sense to put xbows ( the closest thing to a rifle, for rifle hunters ) in the extended archery season, where you have a chance at 3 bucks in some zones !!!!!

[Hellydoc]

WOW this discussion seems vaguely familiar to a thread that is stickied.
:thinking-006:
I don't think we really need another. Nothing has changed, I doubt it will, wouldn't bother me if it did. But who knows.

The way SRD is managing the province it wont be long before all is on draw anyways. No numbers here just my gut feeling. We lost a number of general moose and even draw tag numbers this year. Won't be too long till all moose is on draw anyways.

just my .02

[Ithaca Dog]

I chose "gun" even though I don't think it shoots farther than a bow. I really didn't like the choice of "Neither" because the poll asked what it was closer to being More like a gun or more like a bow. It is obviously neither and I belive that this choice skews your poll. You need to be a better hunter to kill with a bow than a crossbow and I personally believe that the crossbow should either have its own special season and zone or only be used in the firearms season. Just my 2cents

[Cal]

I think the real question here is "Are crossbow threads more redundant than Native hunting rights threads or just more pointless?" Vote now!

[wilburhunter]

I think the real question here is "Are crossbow threads more redundant than Native hunting rights threads or just more pointless?" Vote now!

No I think the real question is, what is worse the fact that you took the time to post on this subject when you obviously had absolutely nothing to add to the discussion just needed to get your cheap 2 cents in , or the fact that I read it and responded. I vote for me actually responding.


Still waiting for an answer from anyone who supports crossbows in archery season.

Why do you personally want crossbows in archery season?

[Cal]

No I think the real question is, what is worse the fact that you took the time to post on this subject when you obviously had absolutely nothing to add to the discussion just needed to get your cheap 2 cents in , or the fact that I read it and responded. I vote for me actually responding.


Still waiting for an answer from anyone who supports crossbows in archery season.

Why do you personally want crossbows in archery season?

I dont want crossbows in the archery season, if compound bows being almost as effective is the justifying reason then I'd rather give up compound bows then add crossbows to tell you the truth. We've had a few crossbow threads in the last few days where ISB has made it a full time job to shoot off his big yap. Now that theyve either got closed or people have lost intrest he's got to go and start more threads just so he can keep shooting his mouth off, getting realy old.

[Cal]

Aw rats, I cant beleive I got sucked into this, I must be as dumb as I look but here goes.

Why dont we let people use crossbows in golf? Thats right, make a crossbow that shoots golfballs and then the people who dont have the dedication or time to learn to actualy play golf can just sight the thing in and shoot a great round. It would bring in more golfers, be great for the game. If we make sure the crossbows couldnt shoot any farther than a golf pro can drive a golf ball after years of dedicated practice it would be prety much the same thing .... Well we all can see how stupid that would be, and putting crossbows in the bow season is just as stupid for all the same reasons.

[NBFK]

Aw rats, I cant beleive I got sucked into this, I must be as dumb as I look but here goes.

Why dont we let people use crossbows in golf? Thats right, make a crossbow that shoots golfballs and then the people who dont have the dedication or time to learn to actualy play golf can just sight the thing in and shoot a great round. It would bring in more golfers, be great for the game. If we make sure the crossbows couldnt shoot any farther than a golf pro can drive a golf ball after years of dedicated practice it would be prety much the same thing .... Well we all can see how stupid that would be, and putting crossbows in the bow season is just as stupid for all the same reasons.

Ha x2
But modern compounds are easy to shoot like a cross bow so there is no difference. :snapoutofit:

[Okotokian]

Why dont we let people use crossbows in golf? Thats right, make a crossbow that shoots golfballs and then the people who dont have the dedication or time to learn to actualy play golf can just sight the thing in and shoot a great round. It would bring in more golfers, be great for the game. If we make sure the crossbows couldnt shoot any farther than a golf pro can drive a golf ball after years of dedicated practice it would be prety much the same thing .... Well we all can see how stupid that would be, and putting crossbows in the bow season is just as stupid for all the same reasons.

I don't care what the foursome behind me is using, as long as it's range is limited and they aren't launching balls into my group. Your whole arguement is based on "It's wrong. I don't like it" How would what someone else is using in a sport possibly impact your enjoyment of it?

A closer golf analogy would be if you used a regular putter and you tried to get your club to ban the use of long-shafted putters. Why? So what if a long-shafted putter is easier to use? What possible difference would it make to you?

[Mistagin]

wilburhunter asks: "Still waiting for an answer from anyone who supports crossbows in archery season.
Why do you personally want crossbows in archery season?"

OK wilburhunter, I'll answer:It's simple really; personally it's so I can go hunting longer :sHa_shakeshout: than just the rifle season. That's it.

Of course, way up here in the Northeast our gun season is already 3 months long :sHa_sarcasticlol:

[Cal]

I don't care what the foursome behind me is using, as long as it's range is limited and they aren't launching balls into my group. Your whole arguement is based on "It's wrong. I don't like it" How would what someone else is using in a sport possibly impact your enjoyment of it?

A closer golf analogy would be if you used a regular putter and you tried to get your club to ban the use of long-shafted putters. Why? So what if a long-shafted putter is easier to use? What possible difference would it make to you?

But what if you were in a golf tournament and had to compete against people using crossbows. After your years of experience and dedicated practice someone has changed the rules and your level of compatancy can be achieved in a much shorter time? If someone came up with an easyer way to golf then that method would probably have its own class in tournaments and not compete against regular golfers. I am not a very good bowhunter, I dont practice enough to shoot beyond 30 yards and I dont have the patience to get within my effective range of animals very often, but I'm not going to cry about it and try and get the rules changed. The people who have put in the time and who can harvest animals effectively deserve the privilages that come with bowhunting. If it makes other people jealous, I say practice up or shut up.

I dont care if people enjoy hunting with crossbows, go nuts just not in bow season. A single shot shotgun shooting buckshot has about the same range and firepower as a compound bow why dont we include that in bowhunting season as well? If shooting a compound bow is so easy then why do some people think they need crossbows?

[Okotokian]

But what if you were in a golf tournament and were had to compete against people using crossbows.

Oh, I agree with you there. If you are shooting in a 3D competition, certainly have separate divisions.


I dont care if people enjoy hunting with crossbows, go nuts just not in bow season. ?

Again, why do you care if someone is using a crossbow ten miles away from you?

As for your suggestion of using shotguns in bow season, heck, I'd be all for that too. Again, you bring up examples and basically say "that's dumb". Why? I can't think of one answer beyond "I don't want to have to share my season with anyone else. The less people out there the better"... which, of course, is no more greedy or selfish than anyone else's position. LOL

[Cal]

Oh, I agree with you there. If you are shooting in a 3D competition, certainly have separate divisions.



Again, why do you care if someone is using a crossbow ten miles away from you?

As for your suggestion of using shotguns in bow season, heck, I'd be all for that too. Again, you bring up examples and basically say "that's dumb". Why? I can't think of one answer beyond "I don't want to have to share my season with anyone else. The less people out there the better"... which, of course, is no more greedy or selfish than anyone else's position. LOL

Ome last analogy and if you dont get this then you never will.

Many people call moose, elk, and ducks far more effectively than I do. One kind of hunter would knuckle down and learn to call better, another figures he's successful enough, and then theres the 3rd type that says "Hey no fair!" and wants to change the rules and use electronic calls or bait or what have you depending on the circomstance. Electronic or pre-recorded calls may not be more effective than a good moose caller but they are very likely better than the majority of people I hear trying to call in animals. I kind of think that a guy who thinks shotguns should be allowed in a bow season would also be in favor of electronic calls and possibly baiting, if thats true you are hopeless, you will never get it. I could be wrong and if thats so theres hope for you yet.

I dont realy care if crossbows are more or less effective than compound bows or not, the fact is that they are far easyer to learn to use and require less time investment, and that to me is why they shouldnt be allowed in the archery season. The season is already open to anyone who wants to hunt it, just some people are unwilling to do the work required to be succsessfull and are looking for a loophole and its that priciple I dont like. If all those extra hunters that would hunt if they could use crossbows instead bought bows I would have no problem with that.

In summary, the advantages of the bow season are already avalible to those who put in the required effort and it should stay that way. Crossbows are a shortcut in the learning curve and therefore belong in a different catagory. This is not the opinion of a bowhunter that wants to protect his territory. This is the opinion of a quasi bowhunter that respects the effort made by others to master a sport that he has not. I would rather give up and stick to rifle hunting than take that shorcut.

[BrownBear416]

wilburhunter asks: "Still waiting for an answer from anyone who supports crossbows in archery season.
Why do you personally want crossbows in archery season?"

OK wilburhunter, I'll answer:It's simple really; personally it's so I can go hunting longer :sHa_shakeshout: than just the rifle season. That's it.

Of course, way up here in the Northeast our gun season is already 3 months long :sHa_sarcasticlol:

So what is keeping you from buying a bow and taking advantage of the Archery season already is a better question??

[ishootbambi]

I dont want crossbows in the archery season, if compound bows being almost as effective is the justifying reason then I'd rather give up compound bows then add crossbows to tell you the truth. We've had a few crossbow threads in the last few days where ISB has made it a full time job to shoot off his big yap. Now that theyve either got closed or people have lost intrest he's got to go and start more threads just so he can keep shooting his mouth off, getting realy old.

well cal, you're johnny come lately i guess. the last several threads on this topic were not closed and the last one which was the first in a while was not closed. however if you read it, youd know i didnt start it. the reason this one took over is because someone asked for a poll. your first couple of posts made me ask myself, why are you even saying anything if you have nothing to add to the discussion? you then made an attempt at sounding like you had a point, but the ludicrous ideas made no sense. toward the last post though, you expressed a valid opinion and i respect that. you think a crossbow is easier to learn and......are you ready.......I AGREE. you dont want them included as you think someone would be less of a hunter for it. well, ok. you are entitled to your opinion as i am to mine. i have no personal interest one way or the other......i just dont like it when guys make an uninformed opinion based on myths. there area lot of guys who have learned a lot from these discussions, and isnt that the point of this forum?

had to compete against people using crossbows. ?

now by saying this i have no choice but to feel sorry for you. if you think hunting is a competition, you are missing out on a lot. i cant tell you how to do it or what you should like, but if this is how you feel........wow, seriously i feel bad for you.

a guy told me last year that he was with another hunter who shot a very nice whitetail. it was over 160 and rather than just being happy for what he had done, the first words he spoke were, "Yes! That should beat Dale for this years big buck competition." i felt sorry for that guy as well when i heard that.

[Mistagin]

BrownBear416, you ask: "So what is keeping you from buying a bow and taking advantage of the Archery season already is a better question??

I never said I don't have a bow. I do, a traditional recurve I've had for 40 years that I shoot instinctively (no sights or any other new-fangled additions :) ). That's my choice. Actually, I should say I used to shoot it and hunt with it ----- but now I've got a buggered up elbow and can't draw it. I couldn't draw a compound either (but I never had much use for them anyway :fighting0030:), so when I lived back east I bought a crossbow so I could enjoy hunting for 3 months, note: gun season was only a week where I lived then, and crossbows are classified as archery equipment.

Hope that answers your question satisfactorily :).

[Cal]

well cal, you're johnny come lately i guess. the last several threads on this topic were not closed and the last one which was the first in a while was not closed. however if you read it, youd know i didnt start it. the reason this one took over is because someone asked for a poll. your first couple of posts made me ask myself, why are you even saying anything if you have nothing to add to the discussion? you then made an attempt at sounding like you had a point, but the ludicrous ideas made no sense. toward the last post though, you expressed a valid opinion and i respect that. you think a crossbow is easier to learn and......are you ready.......I AGREE. you dont want them included as you think someone would be less of a hunter for it. well, ok. you are entitled to your opinion as i am to mine. i have no personal interest one way or the other......i just dont like it when guys make an uninformed opinion based on myths. there area lot of guys who have learned a lot from these discussions, and isnt that the point of this forum?



now by saying this i have no choice but to feel sorry for you. if you think hunting is a competition, you are missing out on a lot. i cant tell you how to do it or what you should like, but if this is how you feel........wow, seriously i feel bad for you.

a guy told me last year that he was with another hunter who shot a very nice whitetail. it was over 160 and rather than just being happy for what he had done, the first words he spoke were, "Yes! That should beat Dale for this years big buck competition." i felt sorry for that guy as well when i heard that.

I know hunting is not a compatition, it was a bad analogy for sure in that respect. And among hunters I think I am especily un-competative. But how many of us use our bows in the gun season? Not very many that I know of, even those of us that tend to prefer using archery equipment. I dont realy know why that is but for lack of a better explanation is that there is a little bit of "compatition", which isnt the right word at all but I cant think of a better one, and we want it to be as well armed as the other hunters in the field. Just the same as how many of us go on backpacking trips down quad trails? Most of us go backpacking in places where quads can not go or are not permited because, yes, watching some goon do in 10 minuits by merely thumbing a throttle what it has taken me hours to accomplish does tend to ruin my enjoyment, and I dont think I'm alone here.