OHV Are Evil?

[geezer55]

Some of us enjoy using OHV to explore, hunt, fish and enjoy each others company. We are finding it harder to find areas to use OHV in and I personally think it is because of the government has the idea that "OHV Are Evil". They say look at the damage that OHV are doing in this area and instead of more law enforcement they close the area down or put tighter restrictions on the area. Now these people have to move to another area which puts more people in a smaller area and because of this, more people equal more damage. The government will keep doing this till there are no more areas to use OHV. I wish I could find the article that I read about the state of Oregon, instead of closing areas they opened more areas up and by doing so spread the OHV out and by doing so actually eased the pressure on the trails because there are so many trails to use. I think especially the Alberta Government has the idea . . . OHV are evil . . . Concentrate them in a small area . . . Get maximum damage . . . Ban OHV. I know this would please some people but just remember when there are no more OHV doing damage who will be next in government's sights . . . trail riders, hunters, fishermen, hikers, snowmobilers, cross country skiers, others?

[The Elkster]

Personally I think the gov't is an easy whipping boy but I think for the most part quadders themselves are to blame. I quad and am not an anti but I have seen some real ignorant quadders and the nature of the sport means that a small number can upset a lot of non-quadding folks or even other quadders. The noise, the area they can cover in a short time, the power of the machines and the ability to do a lot damage all add up to a bad rep some of it deserved. I was out last weekend and was irked by some quadders who felt it was okay to run in circles right where we were sitting to have lunch even though there was plenty of space to run. As we watched they proceeded to tear up the grass even though there was road and muddied areas 'a plenty and there was no need to destroy habitat needlessly. I can full well see why non-quadders would complain and why the gov't has acted on those demands.

IMO quads should have a sound and power and weight restriction so as to allow quadder to do what they love while limiting their effects on land and other people who have a rights too. I know I was disappointed that my new 4 stroke machine wasn't quieter. Surely in this day and age they can make a machine that sounds more like a car...would it be supported by most quadders....I have my doubts and there lies part of the problem. If quads were as loud as the average car that'd go a long way in improving the image of quadding...but of course there are always the knuckle draggers who have to pull the "Tim the toolman" routine and prove how much power they have arf arf arf. Yes we got along for years with 2-300 cc bikes but 800cc surely must be needed now to turn our huge new tires and and and good mufflers are for wimps:scared:

If quadders don't take things into their own hands and do the right things proactively then they will have the decisions made for them...its that simple. The public will demand it and the gov't will act on it and in some cases they already have....and WE lose.

[geezer55]

Let's stop saying quads . . . OHVs can include ATV, UTV, dirt bikes and 4x4 trucks. That is why in my original post I made sure I used OHV. One person may use a 4x4 and dislike ATVs, etc.. I have seen each and every one of these machines do damage, not just one and not the other. What I was saying in the first post was when you concentrate the OHVs into smaller and smaller areas you end up with more and more damage. The government instead of shutting down areas should be opening up more areas thus taking a strain off of the areas that are open now.

[Kev]

They say look at the damage that OHV are doing in this area and instead of more law enforcement they close the area down or put tighter restrictions on the area.

What are you expecting the gov't to enforce? Until there's rules, there is nothing to enforce?

[packhuntr]

You surely cant be seroius Geezer..... My gosh, then when shes all, good and completely destroyed, what on Gods green earth will your response be to the aftermath........ Let me guess here...."How could you people let this happen, what about my children and their future in the outsdoors!!!!!" Sound close??? Stop, and give your head a shake man, you need to take a look around yourself.... Lets be proactive, not reactive, its not about here, now, and us, its about the future!!??

keep a strain on er.

[Brady]

Man I wish I would have taken a few pics of a few fresh cutblocks that we stumbled across while hunting last month. We **** and moan about the damage that a few quads make, but we don't hear too much about the devastation left behind by the loggers or even the pipeliners..............interesting.

[Mintaka]

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[packhuntr]

Aw, come on guys, thats like saying , "well fellas, im a drunk driver, but we all know that smoking kills more people everyday than us drunks ever could." Wether you are willing to accept it or not, recreational use of these machines in the mass numbers were seeing now, have more than proven themselves to be posing a problem in our province. I enjoy the machines as well on a couple trips a year, but something has to be done.

Some people miss more than the forest, they miss the whole point alltogether.

[Bushrat]

Man I wish I would have taken a few pics of a few fresh cutblocks that we stumbled across while hunting last month. We **** and moan about the damage that a few quads make, but we don't hear too much about the devastation left behind by the loggers or even the pipeliners..............interesting.

I agree cutblocks are not pretty but there is a big difference, the logging equipment has left and won't be back in that block for at least 40 to 80 years, that cutblock will grow back into a forest and wildlife will thrive, but the OHV are never ending, increase in numbers every year, make continuous damage and displace wildlife which moves out from the continuous noise and disturbance of random quad usage. I know many places that have been logged, better than letting it overmature and burn or die of disease, makes wonderful wildlife habitat. Seen many places that were great for hunting become ruined because of the incessant drone and molestation of OHV.

[mud slug]

I belong to a 4X4 offroad club last year on sept long weekend we went out to where we do most of our offroading and built bridges over some of the creeks that we use so we could leave a smaller footprint we went out last may long and most of our bridges were ether wrecked or burnt i know that there are alot of responsable offroaders but it only takes one to make everyone look bad

wish this forum had spell check

[Tuc]

Tough one guys. I agree with pack, you can't open it all up, the destruction would be too wide spread.

I think the government should make it mandatory to take a OHV course before you are able to register. Perhaps they could do it in two parts, safety and environment friendly. Maybe education is the solution here????

[thumper]

I'm all for education, but I haven't seen the number of dangerous boat operators go down since the Pleasure Craft Operators Card became mandatory.
Come to think of it, I haven't seen the number of slob hunters decrease since the Alberta Conservation and Hunter's Education Course became mandatory either.
And we know that firearm offences haven't been reduced since the mandatory firearms course began.

I don't know what the answer is - but forcing everyone to jump though hoops in order to attempt to stop the behaviour of a few - may not work.

For those of us that have collected all of our cards, certificates and licences over the years, getting another operator's certificate may not be a big deal - but I think it's just one more barrier to getting young people involved in our sport. It's already daunting enough for them!

Again - I don't know what the answer is!

[Buckhead]

All this uproar about OHVs tearing up the environment is a huge load of bull!

One Oil and Gas company road with a half dozen well sites does far more damage than any quadders will ever do and I do not hear anyone complaining about that.

A lot of the areas I used to hunt 20, 10 and even 5 years ago are now mostly devoid of game due to the amount of oilpatch activity and the increased access that the lease roads provide to large portions of the back country.

Some of these areas used to involve a 5 mile hike or 20 mile quad ride. Now you can drive right up in your pickup.

This is called progress?

[Bushrat]

All this uproar about OHVs tearing up the environment is a huge load of bull!

One Oil and Gas company road with a half dozen well sites does far more damage than any quadders will ever do and I do not hear anyone complaining about that.

A lot of the areas I used to hunt 20, 10 and even 5 years ago are now mostly devoid of game due to the amount of oilpatch activity and the increased access that the lease roads provide to large portions of the back country.

Some of these areas used to involve a 5 mile hike or 20 mile quad ride. Now you can drive right up in your pickup.

This is called progress?

Thats the price we pay. Oil and gas provide fuel, heat, jobs, clearcuts provide homes, jobs, I guess if we don't need jobs, houses, or energy then we could do without these intrusions you speak of in the bush and you wouldn't have a job to buy a quad with or fuel to put in it. These industries are at least somewhat regulated, necessary and have a reason for being, just because they are not pretty and are a blight on the land does not mean that it gives licence for everyone else to go out and have their way on the land for no good reason other than it amuses that portion of OHV users that are slobs, you know the ones that give all the respectful OHV users a bad name, to annoy other people and wildlife with their speed quad or jacked up 4x4 with straight pipes and a rooster tail of mud and dirt everywhere they go simply because thats what gives them their jollys.

[Buckhead]

Thats the price we pay. Oil and gas provide fuel, heat, jobs, clearcuts provide homes, jobs, I guess if we don't need jobs, houses, or energy then we could do without these intrusions you speak of in the bush and you wouldn't have a job to buy a quad with or fuel to put in it. These industries are at least somewhat regulated, necessary and have a reason for being, just because they are not pretty and are a blight on the land does not mean that it gives licence for everyone else to go out and have their way on the land for no good reason other than it amuses that portion of OHV users that are slobs, you know the ones that give all the respectful OHV users a bad name, to annoy other people and wildlife with their speed quad or jacked up 4x4 with straight pipes and a rooster tail of mud and dirt everywhere they go simply because thats what gives them their jollys.

If thats the price we pay for greed then the price is far too high IMO.

People must have a short memory or they are too young to remember the 80's and early 90's when the oil patch wasn't booming like it is now. I was always able to find work - no thanks to any oil and gas company or the forest industry with politicians in their back pockets.

It is right and proper that corporations should be able to make a reasonable profit and provide jobs - I am not anti business in any way, however they should not be able to rape this province at will which is what seems to be happening at the moment.

90% of our oil and gas, as well as forest products are for export, a lot of it to the US - and what are we left with....a huge environmental mess.

If people think that this boom that we are in is good for Alberta, they are just not thinking straight. Uncontrolled development benefits noone except the executives of these large corporations.

Sure, people are making a lot of money - including myself, but also the cost of everthing else...houses, rent, utilities, etc. has gone up accordingly so most people are no further ahead then they were before and I see a lot of people that are not involved in the oil and gas or construction industries really suffering. They have no hope of ever being able to afford a house at the current prices.

What you are saying is that it is OK for large industries to ruin the environment while at the same time making a scapegoat out of some punk on his quad. If OHV users are going to be singled out then it is only fair and right that all other users of the land should have to operate under similar restrictions.

[Bushrat]

What you are saying is that it is OK for large industries to ruin the environment while at the same time making a scapegoat out of some punk on his quad. If OHV users are going to be singled out then it is only fair and right that all other users of the land should have to operate under similar restrictions.

Didn't say it was OK but aparrently most everyone does or it wouldn't happen. If you read my posts on the "Party might be Over" thread You'll see we argree that people are living beyond their means and that the environment needs a break. I also said in the previous post that at least we get something out of the oil and gas developement and the logging though it comes at a cost but I don't believe that since we allow these companies to damage an area gives anyone a right to go out with OHV's and further damage it for just for entertainment.

[Suka]

If there's enough demand, personally I'd like to see a couple 5 or 10mi sq. areas designated where you can use them. These would also be the Only places you could hunt on one.
That way the ohv people could have a couple places with carte blanche, and those of us who aren't ohv people wouldn't have to put up with them ruining "our" outdoor activities.

[Buckhead]

Maybe we could have some designated small areas (OHV parks?) where the rowdies can go and rip and tear as much as they like. Just a thought.

I don't think the problem is going to go away, there are always going to be people with a lack of common sense and some of them ride OHV's.

[recce43]

i'm a quadder love it but i think they should have to pay to use the the area they ride in say 100 bucks a year gives you apass and if you get cuaght with out one there should be a 1000 dollar fine that would keep the rowdies out

[WCTHEMI]

We already pay a fee for our OHV's. Its called registration, I don't think that giving the government more money is gonna help any.

[geezer55]

What are you expecting the gov't to enforce? Until there's rules, there is nothing to enforce?

Here are some of the rules for the operation of OHV.

1. Must have valid insurance and registration.
2. Must have working headlight, taillight, muffler and spark arrester.
3. Must be at least 14 years old to ride unsupervised.

In the Castle area

4. Can only ride on marked trails.
5. Can only use ATV, UTV and motorcycles from May 1st- November 30th, between December 1st to April 30th the trails are for snowmobile use.
6. If you are hunting and shoot an animal away from the trail use can not use your ATV to retrieve it, you must get the animal to the trail.

These are some of the rules and they are not enforced.

As for ATVs making deep holes in the trails, the one I slid off of my quad into that was waist deep was not made by an ATV it was made by a 4x4 truck.

[ElDiablo]

If these rules were followed there wouldn't be a problem. If these rules were enforced there would be much less of a problem. Unfortunatley, often they're not followed, and the agencies don't have the resources to enforce them in the quantity and quality that they should be enforced.

As Thumper said, I don't have the right answer, and honestly, I don't think there is a right answer. No matter how its dealt with, its gonna **** somebody off.

My own feelings are that its a good thing Waiperous had the restrictions put on it, its made the area a much nicer place to hunt, fish and enjoy. The McLean area should remain wide open for whatever the OHV group is going to do to it. Hopefully they will use it responsibly :rolleyes: , but more realistically, hopefully the responsible users(who I feel far outnumber the idiots) will maintain it to the point where SRD chooses to keep it open for them.
Areas like Indian Graves and Castle shouldn't be open to random OHV use. I think a designated trail system similar to the GAMP would be beneficial in these areas, with harsh penalties for abuse and misuse. Go ahead and ride your quad on the trail all day long, drive off the trail and you'll pay through the nose.

An OHV license would be a good idea. If you make an illiegal left turn in your truck, and are ticketed for it, you can't defend your actions by saying "I wasn't aware I wasn't allowed to do that" because you learned the rules when you got your drivers license. If OHV users are required to take a course and pass a test, they won't be able to use ignorance as a legitimate defence either.

As for the trucks, I would be all for a stipulation that in order to operate your truck on any of the designated trails in the designated OHV areas, an OHV license is mandatory as well, otherwise leave your truck on the road.

[geezer55]

If these rules were followed there wouldn't be a problem. If these rules were enforced there would be much less of a problem. Unfortunatley, often they're not followed, and the agencies don't have the resources to enforce them in the quantity and quality that they should be enforced.

An OHV license would be a good idea.

If there are not enough officers to enforce the rules as they stand now, why make another rule?

[ElDiablo]

Prior to a license being issued, there would obviously be a course, or at the bare minimum, a test. Hopefully some education will stop some problems before they start.

Downstream of that, when a ticket is written, the ticketed will have less of a leg to stand on given the fact that he passed the test to get his license.

And hopefully, holding an OHV license will make some of the less responsible users more accountable for their actions.

It would be nice to see the license fees become part of SRD's enforcment budget too.

[Kev]

Those rules are enforced in my area. Nothing you can do about a guy digging holes with his quad in meadows, and having registration & insurance do not prevent this.

[duffy4]

The OHV "hot rodders" are only part of the problem. Shear numbers of people riding nicely along on "random" unplanned trails is a problen in itself.

If mom, dad and the kids putt-putt along on a "trail" that crosses muskeg and has 10 stream crossings they will have an impact. If 550 moms dads and kids ride that "trail" on a summer weekend they will have a BIG impact.

It is not JUST the young (or old) piston heads that cause all the problems.

Many "trails" follow old siesmic lines that were put in during winter when the ground was frozen. These lines were never meant for summer traffic and make poor OHV trails.

Robin in Rocky

[Grizzly Adams]

If you want to get a bad impression of OHV s , just come to Sundre on a Sunday afternoon and see convoys of them coming back from the hills, coated with mud from top to bottom. Obviously, there isn't as much conscientiousness out there,as we are being led to believe.
Grizz

[bingo1010]

no doubt something has to be done, there is no question that they leave a footprint on the ground, but what doesn't ? one area i have been in up by cadomin has horse trails 3 feet deep cut through some areas. i used to hunt with the quad but there are no areas to pull a camp into to hunt for sheep anymore, so now i use horses....lots of work. but yet when ui get back in the bush i see lots of old camps where the horses have all the tree roots exposed and tromped flat from being tiesd to trees. there is also the wolf issue, one area that i used to hunt with the quads was really good for elk and sheep, there were allways some wolves, now that there has been no motorized vehicles for a few years the wolves have moved in and the population has exploded. as a result...just got back from 7 days way back in and saw 4 cow elk yes that is right 4. used to see 100-150. even the sheep numbers are way down, used to see 200 to 400 in 7 - 10 days now last week.. less than 100. no quads = less people= more wolves=less game. when we were coming out and got to a couple of miles of the truck all of a sudden there were elk everywhere, why?, because the human presence keeps the wolves at bay and the elk know this. choose your poison. nothing is perfect. wouldn't be suprised to one day see access limited to a certain number of people per year to protect the land. last thing..look at mountain park/cheviot ... the area is too pristine and sensitive to allow ohv yet we can build a mine, a massive haul road and level mountains, this is acceptable?