Why Bother to REPORT A POACHER ?

[surhuntsalot]

Here's the deal...

Friday morning on the way into work, along a private lease road, A co-worker and I saw a bunch of ravens flush up from along the right of way. A closer look revealed a fork horn whitetail dead, with an obvious bullet hole in the front shoulder (only open for archery in our zone). It had been shot the night before and left....

My co- worker had seen a couple young guy's pass him going in, when he was on his way out about 8 pm the night before, and was sure it could have been them. He had a great vehicle description, as well, there would most likely have been pictures of any vehicles that had used the road since there is suveylance cam's posted along the way into our jobsite to moniter traffic, and reduce theft...

It was a no brainer to call Report A Poacher to turn it in. I witnessed the call my co-worker made over the speaker phone... Gave the exact location, information, description of the vehicle (even found out who it was by asking around), and contact numbers. We were thanked for , calling, and were told the local officer would be in giving us a call back right away, and investigating it...

That Was Friday...

-Saturday, deer still there, no phone call to ask info, or for pictures of the vehicles that had used the road...

- Sunday... Deer still there, still no call...

-MONDAY... A bear finally dragged the carcass into the bush, and you guessed it... still no call:sign0176:

Makes one wonder "Why Even Bother", as it seems it's not high priority unless it's a Bighorn, or Sturgeon or the likes...

Any one else have a NEGATIVE experience with the R.A.P line ?

[The Rog Man]

YUP !!! Very similar circumstances up Grande Prairie way back in 98.
Grey cup weekend, poached Moose called in same story as you same results!!!
My guess was that football was more important?
It would have to be VERY serious for me to bother wasting my time with the RAP hotline ever again........
I know fish cops are spread thin over the province but thats just the way it is i guess?

[Scott N]

Manpower / budget will always be a problem for F&W.

[ovis40]

Manpower / budget will always be a problem for F&W.

Not sure about that.
Last year opening day for rifle by Rimbey I was out for elk/deer. Just into legal time I hear a bunch of shots to the south of me. I finished my walk and see the F&W truck heading south. I get to my truck and drive south and find the F&W officer with some people I know, so I pull in to find out whats up. Turns out some young bucks that didn't have permision to hunt on any of the land in the area opened up on a herd of elk. Two bulls were hit and wounded and ran away. They either shot from the road or trespassed onto land that they didn't have permission for. This would seem like a no-brainer....but they didn't get charged because NO ONE SAW THEM!!!!! WT? is with that?

[Lone_Wolf]

Not sure about that.
Last year opening day for rifle by Rimbey I was out for elk/deer. Just into legal time I hear a bunch of shots to the south of me. I finished my walk and see the F&W truck heading south. I get to my truck and drive south and find the F&W officer with some people I know, so I pull in to find out whats up. Turns out some young bucks that didn't have permision to hunt on any of the land in the area opened up on a herd of elk. Two bulls were hit and wounded and ran away. They either shot from the road or trespassed onto land that they didn't have permission for. This would seem like a no-brainer....but they didn't get charged because NO ONE SAW THEM!!!!! WT? is with that?

Witnesses are essential to laying charges. Why bother charging them? It would have been thrown out of court seeing as there were no witnesses to them committing the acts you described.

[surhuntsalot]

Witnesses are essential to laying charges. Why bother charging them? It would have been thrown out of court seeing as there were no witnesses to them committing the acts you described.

Many Muderer's have been charged without witnesses... In this case there were eye witnesses puttuing the suspects in the area, there were photographs of them, and there could have been ballistic evidence... not to mention that if these guys were questioned about it, one of them might have admitted to it, or ratted out the other guy. It was 10 mintues from the F&W office, and there was a whole buisness day for them to respond... I know there have been budget cuts, but if they can't even responmd to a case where most of the work has been done, and handed to them, what's the point ?

[curteck]

Not sure about that.
Last year opening day for rifle by Rimbey I was out for elk/deer. Just into legal time I hear a bunch of shots to the south of me. I finished my walk and see the F&W truck heading south. I get to my truck and drive south and find the F&W officer with some people I know, so I pull in to find out whats up. Turns out some young bucks that didn't have permision to hunt on any of the land in the area opened up on a herd of elk. Two bulls were hit and wounded and ran away. They either shot from the road or trespassed onto land that they didn't have permission for. This would seem like a no-brainer....but they didn't get charged because NO ONE SAW THEM!!!!! WTF is with that?

I know of an incedent exactly like that one and those !@#clowns were charged I witnessed it PM for more info ovis40

[NCC]

CBC radio reported this morning that RAP calls have doubled in the last two years and in the same period wildlife related charges have dropped by 80%.

You have a greater chance of being struck by lightning than you do of being convicted of poaching.

[gilbertslake]

Sounds much the same as an incident I had in Newfoundland a few years back.
There was an outbreak of rabies on the Northern Peninsula. On my way to hunt ducks in September, I saw a fox staggering back and forth on the road, every now and then turning to bite at it's own tail, to me obviously rabid. I loaded my shotgun and waited until it got off the side of the road, then shot it.
Then I went home to call Wildlife (no cell phones back then). I knew the officer, so I called his home first, but no answer, I called the report a poacher #. When I called the first thing they did was berate me for killing a fox without a permit. I said 'you have got to be kidding, there is a rabies outbreak, I see a rabid fox and you say I have to have a permit to kill it, get normal'. Anyhow they took the particulars of location etc and said they would have the officer check it out. Four days later, I met the officer and said, 'so, what do you think, was it rabid?' He replied 'what are you talking about', 'the fox I shot and called in four days ago', 'first I heard of it'. So I jumped in the truck with him and went to where I had shot it............no fox, just a some fur and the remains of one paw, I guess a bear had taken the rest. The officer said 'can't do much now, I needed the head in order to confirm rabies'.
So, are the Report a Poacher programs effective? Hard to say, but I would think only if the people getting the calls take them seriously.

[Lone_Wolf]

Many Muderer's have been charged without witnesses... In this case there were eye witnesses puttuing the suspects in the area, there were photographs of them, and there could have been ballistic evidence... not to mention that if these guys were questioned about it, one of them might have admitted to it, or ratted out the other guy. It was 10 mintues from the F&W office, and there was a whole buisness day for them to respond... I know there have been budget cuts, but if they can't even responmd to a case where most of the work has been done, and handed to them, what's the point ?

I thought you said no one saw them?

[raab]

Here's the deal...

Friday morning on the way into work, along a private lease road, A co-worker and I saw a bunch of ravens flush up from along the right of way. A closer look revealed a fork horn whitetail dead, with an obvious bullet hole in the front shoulder (only open for archery in our zone). It had been shot the night before and left....

My co- worker had seen a couple young guy's pass him going in, when he was on his way out about 8 pm the night before, and was sure it could have been them. He had a great vehicle description, as well, there would most likely have been pictures of any vehicles that had used the road since there is suveylance cam's posted along the way into our jobsite to moniter traffic, and reduce theft...

It was a no brainer to call Report A Poacher to turn it in. I witnessed the call my co-worker made over the speaker phone... Gave the exact location, information, description of the vehicle (even found out who it was by asking around), and contact numbers. We were thanked for , calling, and were told the local officer would be in giving us a call back right away, and investigating it...

That Was Friday...

-Saturday, deer still there, no phone call to ask info, or for pictures of the vehicles that had used the road...

- Sunday... Deer still there, still no call...

-MONDAY... A bear finally dragged the carcass into the bush, and you guessed it... still no call:sign0176:

Makes one wonder "Why Even Bother", as it seems it's not high priority unless it's a Bighorn, or Sturgeon or the likes...

Any one else have a NEGATIVE experience with the R.A.P line ?

The bolded is probably why they didn't investigate it. Your judging the two youth who went in with absolutely no evidence that they committed any crime except for maybe trespassing if the lease roads were private. Unless you have them on video shooting the deer there's basically no way of proving the kids did it in a court of law. And with F&W being very busy at this time of year with bears and other things it probably wasn't at the top of there priority list as bad as that sounds. Out of curiosity what WMU was it in?

[Rockymtnx]

Too be honest, it is attitudes like this which cause a run away in crimes like poaching.
Sure I don’t agree with incidents not being investigated, but when people have the attitude why bother, your only adding to the problem.
By being an outdoorsmen and sitting back not reporting incidents, you basically are condoning the problem. I encourage everyone to do their due diligence and report any poaching activities they see.

[curteck]

Too be honest, it is attitudes like this which cause a run away in crimes like poaching.
Sure I don’t agree with incidents not being investigated, but when people have the attitude why bother, your only adding to the problem.
By being an outdoorsmen and sitting back not reporting incidents, you basically are condoning the problem. I encourage everyone to do their due diligence and report any poaching activities they see.

X2 rocky!!

[surhuntsalot]

Too be honest, it is attitudes like this which cause a run away in crimes like poaching.
Sure I don’t agree with incidents not being investigated, but when people have the attitude why bother, your only adding to the problem.
By being an outdoorsmen and sitting back not reporting incidents, you basically are condoning the problem. I encourage everyone to do their due diligence and report any poaching activities they see.

We DID bother to report it, offer alot of adittional information as a starting point...

They (F&W) DIDN'T bother to investigate it !

It's not my attitude of frustration with the way it was handled that leads to "runaway" crimes like Poaching.... It's that the Poachers feel they have an Amnesty when they are turned in, and there isn't even an investigation....

[Ken07AOVette]

We DID bother to report it, offer alot of adittional information as a starting point...

They (F&W) DIDN'T bother to investigate it !

It's not my attitude of frustration with the way it was handled that leads to "runaway" crimes like Poaching.... It's that the Poachers feel they have an Amnesty when they are turned in, and there isn't even an investigation....

I do not believe that all poachers feel they are untouchable. Do not stop reporting these poachers, do your thing.

[Okotokian]

I'm sure it would be frustrating if you feel that nothing was done. That's understandable. But staying silent is no answer. We do too much of that as a society.

I've seen guys smoking joints in downtown Calgary at 5 p.m. amid crowds of people. They know nothing willl happen. It's not far from that to more brazen acts if no one will speak up or report things.

When I was a teen we would do our drinking in the bush, we didn't want adults seeing us. Now teens sit with a case of beer or share a joint on public walkways because they know most people won't confront them. I walked up to a group of teens smashing beer botles on the sidewalk. They were shocked when I told them to knock it off and clean it up. Some people are frightened to do that. But you know what? They did clean it up.

[surhuntsalot]

The "Why Bother" was just a dramatic Precursor to the frustrating situation. By No means do I advocate Not calling in offences....

It's just like sayin 'What would be the point of dialing 911, if there was someone there to take your call, but the Firetruck, or Ambulance never came to give you the help you needed ?"...

To me the Report A Poacher line only has merrit if the offences they encourage you to report are Acted upon, and from some of the previous comments I'm almost led to believe that unfortunately my experience with it may be more of the "Norm".....

[IR_mike]

I walked up to a group of teens smashing beer botles on the sidewalk. They were shocked when I told them to knock it off and clean it up. Some people are frightened to do that. But you know what? They did clean it up.

I know I am not alone in wondering about this...... but were you wearing the green mask and cape in your avatar at the time?:confused::confused:

[Okotokian]

I know I am not alone in wondering about this...... but were you wearing the green mask and cape in your avatar at the time?:confused::confused:

Naw, I save that for "fantasy night" at home ;) LOL

[IR_mike]

:sign0068::sign0068:


Just checking!!
:sHa_shakeshout::):)

[Redfrog]

Naw, I save that for "fantasy night" at home ;) LOL

OMG How do I unread that???????:sign0068:

[1-4duckhunt]

I understand some of the frustrations that people feel towards a lack of satisfaction when reporting violations to the RAP line. The frustrations are not felt by the callers alone. Unfortunately, the reality of budgets, manpower and various other factors affect the availability of officers on a daily basis. There are, however, numerous other benefits behind calling RAP, that I think people should keep in mind.
Intelligence based enforcement requires calls from the public to improve efficiency. Calls to the RAP line can help to formulate officer patrol plans (where, when etc) and special operations that can be dedicated to target problem areas. Calls can help in ongoing investigations, and can help to demonstrate the need for more officers/tools/budgets to target problems just like this one.
The value of making the call goes far beyond simply seeing an officer role up in the next 30 mins, eventhough thats something we'd all like to see.

[827rotax]

Great post Duckhunt!!!!! I agree it is hard not to see action but the as the calls keep coming it shows a need to provide better funding to this program and all wildlife programs. Great post!!

[waylow]

Yup, had soem hunters behind my house 2 years ago shoot 3 does about 80 yds from my back step. Called F&W and described the situation. No word of a lie, the officer asks me: Well what would like us to do?
I said "your job". I never did see the F&W come out.

[ovis40]

I know of an incedent exactly like that one and those !@#clowns were charged I witnessed it PM for more info ovis40

It was great news from Curteck that the !@#clowns did in fact get charged!!! I should have known the other source of info likes to make things out different than what it really is.
THANKS CURTECK!

[gramps73]

The bolded is probably why they didn't investigate it. Your judging the two youth who went in with absolutely no evidence that they committed any crime except for maybe trespassing if the lease roads were private. Unless you have them on video shooting the deer there's basically no way of proving the kids did it in a court of law. And with F&W being very busy at this time of year with bears and other things it probably wasn't at the top of there priority list as bad as that sounds. Out of curiosity what WMU was it in?

x2

Bottom line is you saw 2 young kids drinving and now they are the ones that shot the deer. I would not look in to it either, if you saw them shoot the deer different story..

[surhuntsalot]

x2

Bottom line is you saw 2 young kids drinving and now they are the ones that shot the deer. I would not look in to it either, if you saw them shoot the deer different story..

Did NOT say they shot the deer, just that they were in the area in the time frame that the offence happened... More of a starting point for the investagation that never happened....

If you found moose or deer shot, but never saw anyone around would it be worth investigating ? I know more extreeme, but there have been many Murders where there were no witnesses, but there has been a conviction...

How much easier (other than having a YouTube video like the Sask. duck shooters) do they want it? Here's an offence that happined within a 10 minute drive of the F&W office, Deer obviously shot the night before, eyewitness, and video of vehicles that have used the road in that window....

[CaberTosser]

Naw, I save that for "fantasy night" at home ;) LOL


If Mrs Oko fantasizes about "Bubbles" from Trailer Park Boys, it begs the question: Is Bubbles a step up from Oko, or more of a lateral move?:scared0018:

[TangoKilo]

Too be honest, it is attitudes like this which cause a run away in crimes like poaching.
Sure I don’t agree with incidents not being investigated, but when people have the attitude why bother, your only adding to the problem.
By being an outdoorsmen and sitting back not reporting incidents, you basically are condoning the problem. I encourage everyone to do their due diligence and report any poaching activities they see.

X100

You report it because it is THE RIGHT THING TO DO!!

You have no control over what fish and wildlife do after you make the call, so why even worry about it?

[Okotokian]

If Mrs Oko fantasizes about "Bubbles" from Trailer Park Boys, it begs the question: Is Bubbles a step up from Oko, or more of a lateral move?:scared0018:

She wouldn't be caught dead watching TPB so has no idea who bubbles is. It's just a super-hero outfit. LOL

[raab]

Did NOT say they shot the deer, just that they were in the area in the time frame that the offence happened... More of a starting point for the investagation that never happened....

If you found moose or deer shot, but never saw anyone around would it be worth investigating ? I know more extreeme, but there have been many Murders where there were no witnesses, but there has been a conviction...

How much easier (other than having a YouTube video like the Sask. duck shooters) do they want it? Here's an offence that happined within a 10 minute drive of the F&W office, Deer obviously shot the night before, eyewitness, and video of vehicles that have used the road in that window....

The police force has a lot more resources to draw from to investigate murders then F&W officers do. With the limited funding these guys get they have to prioritize there calls and I'm thinking they probably had something more urgent to do then investigate a deer that's been shot with no witnesses. Even though there probably is video of the poachers going in, proving that any one of the trucks actually shot the deer would take to much time and energy for any F&W department right now in the province. If you have a problem with that you should call your MLA and ask them why these guys aren't better funded? And just because they didn't respond to this call is no reason not to call them again. If you see someone poaching you should report them and let the F&W guys determine if it's worth investigating based on the information you give them and what resources they have available at that moment. That's my 2 cents on the situation.