Tactical Gopher Scope...

[Got Juice?]

I have my eyes on this particular piece of glass to mount on my CZ 452 Varmint for Gophers etc.

I love using a .22 at 150 yards, but at that range a Bushnell 3x9x40 elite 3200 isn't cutting it (can't see bullet hits/misses on animals or target)

So will this fit the bill or should I consider something else? Please note this scope is around 399+Tax.

Thanks Eh!

http://theconsumerlink.com/product_detail.asp?BID=Millett&T1=TCL+BK81001&navStart=0&.

http://www.millettsights.com/scopes/trs/

[4thredneck]

You can buy cheap Bushnell or Tasco 6-24x40 scopes for under $200 that will do a good job for you. JMO

[Gonehuntin']

You can buy cheap Bushnell or Tasco 6-24x40 scopes for under $200 that will do a good job for you. JMO

I got the El Cheapo Deluxe Tasco Target Varmint 2.5-10x 40 AO with mil dots. Really like the dots, deadly when you get the hang of them. Great on my 452, liked the first one so much, I bought another. Starting at 6x to 24x on a .22 is a little much magnification for my liking. But they are a decent cheap scope option, for being $100 or so.

[Got Juice?]

A little overkill perhaps?:snapoutofit:

[Okotokian]

You know the Marketing guys have taken over when anything to do with shooting gophers (I would never even call it "hunting") is described as "tactical" LOL

[303carbine]

Tactical gophers, now I've heard it all................:snapoutofit:

[Got Juice?]

You know the Marketing guys have taken over when anything to do with shooting gophers (I would never even call it "hunting") is described as "tactical" LOL

LMAO so true. I guess I should have *ahem* used the word 'precision' in lieu of tactical... :fighting0074:

Tactical gophers, now I've heard it all................:snapoutofit:

C'mon, Bob Lee Swagger, Gopher shooter, and 'recycling' a pop bottle.. what's not to like other than more scope.

I was once told to buy more than what you need for optics when it comes to rifles. Nothing wrong with a Bushnell Elite 3200 3x9x40 which is what it used to wear, but my accuracy and needs have outgrown it, so i am looking at alternatives to replace it, that offer higher magnification, and adjustable parralax etc.

Nothing against Tasco, but for 200.00 is it half as good as a 400.00 millet? 30mm tube? Clarity etc?

I guess those are the pertinent questions I should have asked.

[Okotokian]

I can see why you would want more than 9 power given the distance you are shooting and your desire to actually see bullet hits on targets. However I am not sure you necessarily need better glass than what the 3200 elite sports. I know I'm making some assumptions here, but I'm assuming you aren't shooting gophers right at either end of legal light, in bad weather, at extreme range (like 500 yards)... all the things where real quality glass excels.

Sort of like I know that Ziess and the other Euro glass is better than what's in my Leupold VXII, but at 8:30 a.m. on a day with good weather shooting at a deer 220 yards away I don't think it would make an ounce of difference practically speaking.

I've actually got a CZ 452 Lux in .22 mag. Got an even cheaper Bushnell 3x9 on it LOL

[Jamie Black R/T]

Ill play devils advocate here

the way i see it is my gopher rig sees way more action than any of my big game rifles...i have fired over 200 rounds of .223 at gophers on a slow day in the field and you spend a LOT of time looking through the scope

i get a lot of flack from guys who make fun of my thousand dollar gopher scope but my eyes appreciate quality glass.

at 8:30 a.m. on a day with good weather shooting at a deer 220 yards away I don't think it would make an ounce of difference practically speaking

totally agree....but put a cheap scope on a gopher rig and look through it for what will add up to several hours throughout the day...then a scope with quality glass may seem more desirable no?

to the OP...i would look into a used bushnell 4200 tactical in 6-24x50...save some cash and you get a quality side focus which really comes in handy with sod rats at random distances.

[sickfast]

Jamie is bang on!!!! Spend the money one time !!!!

[260 Rem]

IMO anything larger than a 1" tube or 40mm objective would be pretty "clunky" on a .22 452. In the patches where I shoot, I avoid using anything with more than 12X magnification as after that, the field of vision is just too small for the quick acquisition of gophers at much more than 80M. Bottom line for me is to set the scope at 12X with parallax at 70M and I get decent results without fiddling between 50 - 100M. I just crank the magnification down for closer shots. The higher magnification scopes are OK if you are shooting alone and have lots of time to find that 100M gopher..but if you are shooting with my buddy, all you will come across is a dead gopher if you take more than 10 seconds to find it!!!!! I use a Bushnell Banner 4 - 12 X 40AO.

[Got Juice?]

I can see why you would want more than 9 power given the distance you are shooting and your desire to actually see bullet hits on targets. However I am not sure you necessarily need better glass than what the 3200 elite sports. I know I'm making some assumptions here, but I'm assuming you aren't shooting gophers right at either end of legal light, in bad weather, at extreme range (like 500 yards)... all the things where real quality glass excels.

Sort of like I know that Ziess and the other Euro glass is better than what's in my Leupold VXII, but at 8:30 a.m. on a day with good weather shooting at a deer 220 yards away I don't think it would make an ounce of difference practically speaking.

I've actually got a CZ 452 Lux in .22 mag. Got an even cheaper Bushnell 3x9 on it LOL

Great points thank you!

Ill play devils advocate here

the way i see it is my gopher rig sees way more action than any of my big game rifles...i have fired over 200 rounds of .223 at gophers on a slow day in the field and you spend a LOT of time looking through the scope

i get a lot of flack from guys who make fun of my thousand dollar gopher scope but my eyes appreciate quality glass.



totally agree....but put a cheap scope on a gopher rig and look through it for what will add up to several hours throughout the day...then a scope with quality glass may seem more desirable no?

to the OP...i would look into a used bushnell 4200 tactical in 6-24x50...save some cash and you get a quality side focus which really comes in handy with sod rats at random distances.


I think you see exactly the dilemma. Truth is with all the guns I have, the .22's are still the ones with the most 'trigger time' spent behind them. 8 bricks this year alone, which translates into a lot of time behind the lens of a scope.

If I add up all my other rifle, shotgun and pistol shooting it barely comes close to the time spent in my .22, and with better glass, I would get to play a little more with a scope with proper holdover points etc. By mounting it to a .22 especially one that shoots a lot, you would gain proficiency at an astounding rate.

Jamie is bang on!!!! Spend the money one time !!!!
Yep!

IMO anything larger than a 1" tube or 40mm objective would be pretty "clunky" on a .22 452. In the patches where I shoot, I avoid using anything with more than 12X magnification as after that, the field of vision is just too small for the quick acquisition of gophers at much more than 80M. Bottom line for me is to set the scope at 12X with parallax at 70M and I get decent results without fiddling between 50 - 100M. I just crank the magnification down for closer shots. The higher magnification scopes are OK if you are shooting alone and have lots of time to find that 100M gopher..but if you are shooting with my buddy, all you will come across is a dead gopher if you take more than 10 seconds to find it!!!!! I use a Bushnell Banner 4 - 12 X 40AO.

Most of the guys I shoot with do so with fairly stock 10/22's They seem to compete with each other to about 75 yards or so... but what is most telling, is when they get bored, and come to play at the CZ range past that... and can't get the job done.

My 10/22 will eventually get a reflex on it for 'plinking at 0-65yys' 60.00 at most. (gotta keep up with buddies 10/22)

[Got Juice?]

YAAAAY! My Rings Came in today. All the way from Germany!!!

240.00 later....:sign0161:

I will now be able to mount my Millett TRS-1 4-16x50mm 30mm Illuminated Mil-DotBar to my CZ452 Varmint.

I will take pictures and post them up. The rings are beautiful billet steel pieces. That fit perfectly on the CZ's 11mm Dovetail. Recknagel is the company name if you need a higher mount than a Talley Ring that will PROPERLY fit your 3/8" Dovetail.

And these rings are a work of art. http://www.recknagel.de/Joomla/PDF/Montagen%20Teil%201.pdf

[hardy]

Personally I'd go with bushnell elite 3200 10x40 mildot. Its only $250 or less and has plenty of elevation on the turrets. Its small and won't make your rifle cumbersome.

[Got Juice?]

Here she is in all her glory.

I got rid of the target (stupid me.) I did make a .342" group at 50 yards on a Lead Sled.

Repeated the same grouping 5 times over. Definately cool. Tomorrow I go try my luck at the 275yd gong.

Here are the pics with the sunshade installed. Really Really nice glass. Even if I had to spend a mint on rings, the results speak for themselves. A lot of folks who cheap out on scope rings on a 1000.00 scope need a good flogging. You need rock solid, and you will get good groups. And a torque wrench on the scope rings to get all the pressures even across the tube. (and that tip is free from me to you)

[Marlin xl7]

Here she is in all her glory.

I got rid of the target (stupid me.) I did make a .342" group at 50 yards on a Lead Sled.

Repeated the same grouping 5 times over. Definately cool. Tomorrow I go try my luck at the 275yd gong.

Here are the pics with the sunshade installed. Really Really nice glass. Even if I had to spend a mint on rings, the results speak for themselves. A lot of folks who cheap out on scope rings on a 1000.00 scope need a good flogging. You need rock solid, and you will get good groups. And a torque wrench on the scope rings to get all the pressures even across the tube. (and that tip is free from me to you)

So are you looking to adopt? haha :sHa_shakeshout:

[Got Juice?]

So are you looking to adopt? haha :sHa_shakeshout:

If I was a better shooter I sure would.

But guys like Catinthehat, would mop the floor with me.

I'm just a hack :)

[elkhunter11]

I got rid of the target (stupid me.) I did make a .342" group at 50 yards on a Lead Sled.

My own 452 Varmint Thumbhole in 22lr is averaging .370" for five shots at 50 yards off of sandbags, wearing an Elite 3200 3-9x40. However, my dedicated gopher gun is a Cooper 17Mach2 that is averaging .310" for five shots at 50 yards, wearing a Kahles CL 3-9x42. The rifle easily shoots sub 1" at 100 yards. I find that the 17Mach2 produces much more dramatic kills, and it shoots much flatter at 100 yards or more. I recently purchased a used 452 American in 17HMR to test out, but since 17Mach2 ammunition is half the cost of 17HMR loads, it might not get a lot of use. I am still deciding what scope to mount on the 17HMR, but it will likely be a 3-9, or a 4-12.

[Got Juice?]

My own 452 Varmint Thumbhole in 22lr is averaging .370" for five shots at 50 yards off of sandbags, wearing an Elite 3200 3-9x40. However, my dedicated gopher gun is a Cooper 17Mach2 that is averaging .310" for five shots at 50 yards, wearing a Kahles CL 3-9x42. The rifle easily shoots sub 1" at 100 yards. I find that the 17Mach2 produces much more dramatic kills, and it shoots much flatter at 100 yards or more. I recently purchased a used 452 American in 17HMR to test out, but since 17Mach2 ammunition is half the cost of 17HMR loads, it might not get a lot of use. I am still deciding what scope to mount on the 17HMR, but it will likely be a 3-9, or a 4-12.

This was shot with American Eagle .22LR 40gr solid points

Real cheap, not even match ammo. I need to try some Eley now.

[Got Juice?]

Nice groups BTW Elkhunter!

Tomorrow I plan to set up 100 yys and try my luck. Hopefully the wind gods will be kind to me.

[elkhunter11]

Real cheap, not even match ammo. I need to try some Eley now.

You might want to try some SK Standard Plus loads, they work excellent in my Cooper and CZ 22lr rifles, and if you buy in bulk, the price isn't that bad. I found the only issue with my CZ rifles was the trigger, and the YoDave kit for $18 cured that issue.

[Got Juice?]

You might want to try some SK Standard Plus loads, they work excellent in my Cooper and CZ 22lr rifles, and if you buy in bulk, the price isn't that bad. I found the only issue with my CZ rifles was the trigger, and the YoDave kit for $18 cured that issue.

I will look into a trigger as well. I see you can glue a .600 shim on the sear and get a lighter spring to obtain the same results.

But for 18.00 it would be less messy with the yodave kit.

[twofifty]

Wondrous results there Mr. Juice.
Was that with or without wearing camo?

;)

[Got Juice?]

Wondrous results there Mr. Juice.
Was that with or without wearing camo?

;)

Camo underwear.:sHa_shakeshout: of course!

And I had my toes crossed ;)

[twofifty]

Well then, I'll ask the guys to grab more pallets for the fire.

[Got Juice?]

Well then, I'll ask the guys to grab more pallets for the fire.

Please take them all!!!!!!

We have too many!

[Got Juice?]

Almost forgot. The mounts in the CZ are 11mm, not 3/8"

And this is the only quality mount available that will fit this scope

(excepting HAWKE's airgun mount)

[Got Juice?]

Wind gods did not like me today

Could only get a .572 group holding steady@50yds (not doping wind at all) And a 1.106" group at 100 yards.

Still impressive by any standards. I set my dead on POA POI at 100 yys, and used the very bottom mil dot to holdover for 275 yard gong hits.

The glass is very impressive. I adjusted the Allen lock turrets to 0 and then started playing with click holdovers. I think If I get a VSSF .223 this year, I will be purchasing another one of these beauties!

[elkhunter11]

Almost forgot. The mounts in the CZ are 11mm, not 3/8"

I used 11mm mounts on my 452 varmint, but the 452 American uses a wider dovetail. Warne and Talley are very good rings for the CZ rifles, but the Leupolds work fine on my 452 Varmint.

[Got Juice?]

I used 11mm mounts on my 452 varmint, but the 452 American uses a wider dovetail.

ya gotta try this glass. For a scope under 400 bucks, there is too much to like!

Glass quality was excellent with no distortions that I could pick up from edge to edge.

Side focus was very good (although the markings on it are not quite exact to yardage but that may be a function of the -o+ on the eyepiece coming into play.

The Mil Dots are very accurate even with a .22 With .308 ballistics similar at 1000 yards, and the .22 within inches at 300, once you learn to dope the dots out (remembering you are within the 300 yard area) everything works easy. Even for a holdover dummy like me.

I am happy with this piece of glass.

[Got Juice?]

I used 11mm mounts on my 452 varmint, but the 452 American uses a wider dovetail. Warne and Talley are very good rings for the CZ rifles, but the Leupolds work fine on my 452 Varmint.

Too bad Warne or Talley Don't make a ring to fit the CZVarmint/ Millet Scope combo. It would have been less of a wait to get the rinds, and probably less money.

[elkhunter11]

Too bad Warne or Talley Don't make a ring to fit the CZVarmint/ Millet Scope combo. It would have been less of a wait to get the rinds, and probably less money.

I am not the least bit concerned, as I will never mount a scope with either a 30mm tube of a 50mm objective on a rimfire. I will likely use Talleys on my 452 in 17HMR. I am thinking that I will replace one of the Kahles 3-9x42 scopes on my CZ527 Varmint Kevlar with a 4.5-14x44 Conquest, and mount the Kahles on the 17HMR.

[Got Juice?]

I am not the least bit concerned, as I will never mount a scope with either a 30mm tube of a 50mm objective on a rimfire. I will likely use Talleys on my 452 in 17HMR. I am thinking that I will replace one of the Kahles 3-9x42 scopes on my CZ527 Varmint Kevlar with a 4.5-14x44 Conquest, and mount the Kahles on the 17HMR.

One nice thing. When the CZ went to the range today it sure got a lot of attention:sHa_shakeshout: And it will be a unique combination to duplicate for sure.

And all that matters is that it is accurate, repeatable, and fun :)

[elkhunter11]

And all that matters is that it is accurate, repeatable, and fun

In the end, that is what it is all about.

[catnthehat]

For long range .22LR work it doesn't get much more "YIPPEEE!" than this !:sHa_shakeshout:
This combination will range past 200 meters with turret to spare and take gophers reliably at those raanges as well, as long as the shooter can dope the wind properly!
Cat
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/catnthehat/37rem.jpg

[Got Juice?]

For long range .22LR work it doesn't get much more "YIPPEEE!" than this !:sHa_shakeshout:
This combination will range past 200 meters with turret to spare and take gophers reliably at those raanges as well, as long as the shooter can dope the wind properly!
Cat
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/catnthehat/37rem.jpg

Cat, that is too small to be a water main. Is it 2 scopes JB welded together or some scope that I am not familiar with?

[elkhunter11]

Cat, that is too small to be a water main. Is it 2 scopes JB welded together or some scope that I am not familiar with?

It looks like an Unertl, or possibly a Lyman.

[Got Juice?]

It looks like an Unertl, or possibly a Lyman.

At first glance I thought dave was effin with us. At first glance I thought it was a chanter from a set of bagpipes!!!:sHa_shakeshout:

http://www.hotpipes.com/a440-1.jpg


See the similarity?

[Robmcleod82]

Cat that is oldschool I like it is that an anschutz? It deffinately looks like a chanter

[gopher]

Rem 37 ?

[catnthehat]

Rem 37 ?

BINGO!!!
Remington model 37 Rangemaster with the factory installed Sweeney trigger.
The scope is a Unertl 20X programmer.
This rifle (n not the scope) was originally owned by Jim Boa, one of the greatest match shooters of all time, he is in the Canadian Sports hall of Fame IIRC, and certainly in the DCRA hall of fame.
His son was Gil Boa, another one of Canada's top shooters.
This gun will still put 5 into 1/2" or better at 100 yards benched, and was built in 1956.

The return to battery scope was one of the finest pieces of optical precision ever designed, and John Unertl was a master at making them, he was also one of the founding fathers of modern bench rest shooting!

The scope can be shot on anything from a 22 to a .50BMG, without damage, because it rides in the pillow block and is externally adjusted.
The rail on the top is called a "Pope rail" after the great harry Pope, who got frustrated with having to align the cross hairs each time he pulled back the scope into battery, and the return spring was designed to eliminate pulling the scope back.
These scopes still win matches, but are not nearly as common as they once were......


Cat

[catnthehat]

Here's another, on a small frame Martini sporting class target rifle.
This one is a Lyman 15X Super targetspot.
Thses old school guns are great fun and will still win a match or two and hit a gopher at insane distances for such a small cartridge!:sHa_shakeshout:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/catnthehat/martini1.jpg
Cat

[Got Juice?]

Here's another, on a small frame Martini sporting class target rifle.
This one is a Lyman 15X Super targetspot.
Thses old school guns are great fun and will still win a match or two and hit a gopher at insane distances for such a small cartridge!:sHa_shakeshout:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/catnthehat/martini1.jpg
Cat

I see those setups for sale nce in a while... they go for around 1700-2K!

[catnthehat]

I see those setups for sale nce in a while... they go for around 1700-2K!

That rifle ( minus scope ) was built for less than $25 in one weekend and a few extra hours by my father!
I remember he told mme the barrel blank cost $5.25 from Numrich Arms!!
The action was also under $10.
The stocks were made of scrap walnut he had in the shop, and he did all the work himself!:)
He built it in 1963 IIRC.
Cat