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getasheep
10-15-2007, 07:06 AM
Grizzlies in Peril
As few as 500 are left in the province as contact with humans continues to prove fatal, despite a hunting moratorium

Darcy Henton
The Edmonton Journal

Monday, October 15, 2007

Most grizzlies killed since the hunting moratorium are shot in self-defense or when they're mistaken for black bears. Others are killed in road accidents, or are destroyed when they become a threat to public safety.

EDMONTON - The hunters were calling a bull elk, but that's not what showed up.

As they bugled their way up Cabin Ridge in the Crowsnest Pass, they heard what they thought was an elk coming up behind them.

They stopped and waited with guns ready, but instead of the big game they were expecting, a large female grizzly emerged from the thick timber, just 40 metres away.

It spotted them and charged.

One hunter opened fire. A bullet struck the bear in the neck, stopping it just 20 metres away. A second shot to the neck killed her.

No one knows for sure why the 180-kilogram bear attacked. She was healthy and had no cubs.

But her death at the hands of man is not uncommon.

She was one of 14 grizzlies killed in Alberta in 2006 and one of six shot in self-defence. In 2005, when hunting was allowed, 23 grizzlies died, including 10 that were legally shot by hunters.

Alberta suspended the annual spring grizzly hunt for three years in 2006 when initial numbers suggested the population was well below the 1,000 bears that had previously been estimated.

But grizzlies are still dying from what biologists term "human-caused mortality." They say that must be addressed soon if grizzlies are to survive.

"We've suspended the hunt, but hunting really isn't the issue," says mountain park carnivore expert Mike Gibeau.

Most grizzlies are shot in self-defence, or are mistaken for black bears. Some are killed legally by aboriginal hunters, others are shot by poachers or thrill-killers.

Some die in highway or railway accidents. Some are destroyed when they become nuisance bears and pose a threat to public safety by barging into people's yards to feast on everything from garbage and grain to apples and pet food.

The national parks aren't safe havens for grizzlies, either. More than 50 have died in Banff, Yoho, Kootenay and Jasper since 1990, mostly in highway and railway accidents or because they posed a threat.

Many Albertans believe that if Alberta loses its grizzlies, it loses the wilderness. The grizzly is seen as an icon of the wild, but more importantly, it is an umbrella species. If its space is protected, other plants and animals will have space to thrive as well.

Officially, grizzlies are considered "a species that may be at risk."

But the Alberta Endangered Species Conservation Committee recommended in 2002 that grizzlies should be designated a "threatened" species under the provincial Wildlife Act. That was based on estimates that there were only 1,000 grizzly bears left in Alberta.

The government has yet to move on that recommendation despite recent surveys that now suggest the number could be less than half that.

Alberta Sustainable Resource Development established a 15-member Grizzly Bear Recovery Team to study the issue and draft a strategy to ensure grizzlies aren't wiped out, as they have been in neighbouring Saskatchewan and jurisdictions further east.

The team presented its report and recommendations in 2005. Sustainable Resource Development Minister Ted Morton is expected to announce his department's response to the plan in the near future. Critics say implementing the plan is long overdue.

Grizzlies live in a narrow band along the province's western boundary, primarily between Highway 16 and Highway 3.

Recent DNA testing has produced estimates that there are about 180 bears in that area, outside the mountain parks, and about 160 bears inside the parks, for a total of about 340 grizzlies. Counts of bears south of Highway 3 and north of Highway 16 haven't been completed, but those areas are not expected to yield high numbers.

"We've been far too casual about the shootings and the deaths of bears," laments Jim ****ot of Defenders of Wildlife Canada. "Now that we're aware that there are far fewer than 500, the onus is on the minister to take immediate steps to protect habitat and bears."

Bear biologists say roads are the biggest factor in grizzly deaths. Most human-caused deaths occur within 500 metres of a road.

The grizzly bear recovery team, made up of industry representatives, environmentalists and academics, said one solution is to set aside conservation areas and limit access on resource roads.

Gibeau, who represented National Parks on the recovery team, said grizzlies do best where there are the fewest people.

That means the province must restrict public access to roads built into the wilderness for resource extraction, he said. It means gating or reclaiming resource roads, and fining trespassers.

"It's a reasonable, straightforward plan of access management, providing security for bears and managing human-caused mortalities," Gibeau said.

He notes the Americans have been doing it for 20 years.

"We don't have to reinvent the wheel," he said. "We already know how to conserve grizzly bears from what the Americans have done. They've been wildly successful in Yellowstone in bringing them back from the endangered species list."

The recovery plan also calls for more monitoring of bear populations, increased efforts to limit bear and human conflicts, new educational programs, and identification and maintenance of bear habitat.

Robert Barclay, a recovery team member and spokesman, said the recovery strategy outlines timelines and costs, but it's a living document that must be constantly updated. It also proposes a yearly evaluation through a publicly accessible annual report.

The three-year plan, which calls for a dedicated, full-time team of researchers and staff, costs out at just under $3 million.

To date the province has suspended the grizzly hunt until 2008 pending more extensive population counts.

Grizzly poaching fines have been hiked from $5,000 to $100,000 and the province has launched a $180,000-per-year Bear Smart campaign that aims to reduce bear-human conflicts through education and better controls of garbage and other bear attractants.

"By doing that, we will save grizzly bears and we will save people from injury and property damage," says Russell Stashko, a Bear Smart provincial co-ordinator. "We will also save taxpayers a lot of dollars."

Gibeau warns that Alberta has an unsustainable grizzly mortality rate, and the longer it delays implementing a recovery strategy, the more expensive it will become.

"It's much easier to actually try to maintain the bears we have than wait until they're all gone and then try to fix it," he said.

dhenton@thejournal.canwest.com

SNAPSHOT OF A SPECIES IN JEOPARDY

Grizzly bear deaths in 2006: 14

- In Alberta: 14

- In national parks: 0

- Females: 4

- Causes: self-defence (6), mistaken (2), illegal (2), problem wildlife (1), highway (1), unknown (2).

Grizzly bear deaths in 2005: 31

- In Alberta: 23

- In national parks: 8

- Females: 10

- Causes: legal hunters (10), research (2), illegal hunters (4), problem wildlife (4), Metis (1), self-defence (2); natural (2), highway (2), railway (2), unknown (2).

Examples of deaths in 2006:

- April 6: Spirit River district

A rancher complains that a grizzly has killed three yearling cattle and wounded a fourth. A bear is trapped and destroyed.

- May 27: Grande Cache

A hunting guide reports that his American clients had mistakenly shot a three-year-old, 90-kilogram grizzly while hunting black bears. A wildlife officer's report notes: "hunter had never killed bear in his life and had never seen a wild grizzly bear." A ticket is issued.

- June 5: Slave Lake district

A guide reports that a client mistakenly shot a grizzly bear in the Marten Hills, believing it was a black bear. A report notes: "It was very evident that (the hunter) was negligent and used poor discretion in determining what species of bear he was shooting at." The hunter is charged.

- June 26: Canmore district

A caller reports that an aboriginal hunter wounded a sow grizzly and killed her two cubs in self-defence. Elders are reported as being "very upset."

- Sept. 28: Grande Cache

A hunter reports shooting an aggressive grizzly that got into moose meat in his truck. "He yelled a few times at the bear, but it continued to come at him," the report notes. The shooting is deemed justified.

- Oct. 11: Valleyview district

A hunter is packing up camp when a young grizzly bear approaches him. He fires several warning shots, but the bear continued to approach the trailer where he stood so he shoots and wounds it. He goes into the bush "to finish what was started" and kills a bear that he sees "loping" in his direction. He later determines he killed two bears.

- Nov. 10: Pincher Creek district

A hunter reports that "a bear exploded out of the bush, roaring, growling, mouth open and charging." He shoots the animal several times and observes a smaller bear running away. Wildlife officers find a dead sow and tracks of three cubs. Attempts to trap the cubs are unsuccessful.

SOURCE: Alberta Fish and Wildlife

© The Edmonton Journal 2007

Mintaka
10-15-2007, 09:24 PM
*

VerySavage
10-15-2007, 09:51 PM
Grizzlies live in a narrow band along the province's western boundary, primarily between Highway 16 and Highway 3.

Dream on, that is such a pack of BS it would make you think we have a minimal Grizzly population up north of Hwy 16, which would be true if you refused to count the hundreds of Grizzlies between Hinton & Grande Prairie, or the Grizzly population in Clear Hills, Chinchaga or Zama Lake area to name just a few, then of course I struggle to believe the Swan Hills Grizzlies have all died off or moved away. Oh yea, what of the Grizzlies around Red Earth?:mad2:
This seems more like pretend science than anything that can be backed up by fact. We are having increased Grizzly incidents around Grande Prairie because the growing Grizzly population in northern Alberta are encroaching into more & more farm land where they were not seen in the past.:huh: :mad:
--Ken

Hoochie Papa
10-16-2007, 08:25 AM
"A hunting guide reports that his American clients had mistakenly shot a three-year-old, 90-kilogram grizzly while hunting black bears. A wildlife officer's report notes: "hunter had never killed bear in his life and had never seen a wild grizzly bear." A ticket is issued."



And the "guide" was doing what at the time?

Okotokian
10-16-2007, 09:54 AM
"A hunting guide reports that his American clients had mistakenly shot a three-year-old, 90-kilogram grizzly while hunting black bears. A wildlife officer's report notes: "hunter had never killed bear in his life and had never seen a wild grizzly bear." A ticket is issued."



And the "guide" was doing what at the time?

Perhaps he was off setting up the guy's partner at another site. Who knows? At least he seems to have had some ethics... would have been easy enough to just leave the animal where it fell and keep his mouth shut.

sheephunter
10-16-2007, 10:03 AM
It's pretty common practice for guided non-resident hunters to sit over baits without a guide at their side.

VerySavage
10-16-2007, 02:00 PM
The funny thing is that Baiting of Black Bear is not allowed where Grizzlies are known to inhabit an area, having shot a Grizzly over a bait should have made that area immediately closed to baiting bears. This is just another sign that thier area of influence is growing rather than declining, such contradictions in Grizzly growth or decline really stink when they follow the pseudo science given in the article that began this thread.
--Ken

clyde
10-16-2007, 02:17 PM
The hunters were calling a bull elk, but that's not what showed up.

As they bugled their way up Cabin Ridge in the Crowsnest Pass, they heard what they thought was an elk coming up behind them.

They stopped and waited with guns ready, but instead of the big game they were expecting, a large female grizzly emerged from the thick timber, just 40 metres away.

It spotted them and charged.

What they don't tell you is that the Grizzy Bear Recovery Team had its bait station set up in the area to collect hair samples for DNA. There was an unusual amount of bears in this area and they were aggressive. I know of two other grizzly charges in this area one before said bear was shot and one after. The truth is no one knows how many grizzlies there are out there and if they did I don't think they'd tell us.

Okotokian
10-16-2007, 02:36 PM
The funny thing is that Baiting of Black Bear is not allowed where Grizzlies are known to inhabit an area, having shot a Grizzly over a bait should have made that area immediately closed to baiting bears. This is just another sign that thier area of influence is growing rather than declining, such contradictions in Grizzly growth or decline really stink when they follow the pseudo science given in the article that began this thread.
--Ken

You lost me. I didn't see any reference to baiting black bear.

And while you (and others) may legitimately not agree with how data is being gathered, I guess I'm a little confused as to why a government supported study would intentionally lie and underestimate the number of griz.... what's in it for them? There is plenty of other things the govt could more profitably lie about... I think perhaps some people need to go back to the grassy knoll....

sheephunter
10-16-2007, 02:46 PM
You lost me. I didn't see any reference to baiting black bear.


I'm pretty sure that Ken is right that this bear was killed over bait in an area that was not supposed to hold grizzlies.

tyee43
10-16-2007, 03:35 PM
I agree with Ken's post...I've been down this path before and I'm not even going to go there again...

The "science" is skewed as are the so-called "facts", and the vast majority of hunters, who are the ones spending all of the time in grizzly country, will confirm that...

tyee43

sheephunter
10-16-2007, 03:53 PM
I'd really like to believe the science on this one and I'm all for shutting the season down if we truly don't have enough bears. Far be it for me to say whether there are enough grizzlies in Alberta or not but I find it hard to believe that I've seen close to 10% of the bears in Alberta for each of the past 10 years or so. Heck, I saw nearly 4% of them in a single day this year. Is that really possible? Every valley I've hiked into this year had fresh grizzly sign...more than I've ever seen before. I wish someone could explain this anectodal evidence to me!

tyee43
10-16-2007, 04:04 PM
I'd really like to believe the science on this one and I'm all for shutting the season down if we truly don't have enough bears. Far be it for me to say whether there are enough grizzlies in Alberta or not but I find it hard to believe that I've seen close to 10% of the bears in Alberta for each of the past 10 years or so. Heck, I saw nearly 4% of them in a single day this year. Is that really possible? Every valley I've hiked into this year had fresh grizzly sign...more than I've ever seen before. I wish someone could explain this anectodal evidence to me!

I agree with sheep - if someone can actually show me the empirical EVIDENCE, evidence being the key word, then hell yes, I'm also all for shutting down the grizzly hunt for as long as it takes for the population to recover.

But when you're out year after year, running into grizzlies, seeing new bears, and coming across sign everywhere I go in the backcountry, the numbers being espoused as "science" just do not make any logical or scientific sense to me...and when I'm hearing the same kind of thing from all of the other hunters I know, and hearing the stories on this board, it just reinforces my already firmly entrenched viewpoint.

Until I see the real EVIDENCE, sorry, I'll remain a non-believer...

On another note, spoke to a F&W Officer on Saturday in Canmore as we were heading into the Wind Valley - the guy that got bit by a griz last week was in Waiprous, bowhunting, when he heard a twig snap in the bush...as he turned around, a griz was charging him full bore - the griz bit down on his arm as he put his bow up to defend himself - this guy had his wits about him enough to pull an arrow off his quiver, which he the drove into the bear's side with his free hand - the arrow broke off and the bear let go and ran off into the bush. Turns out the griz had a kill site close by, and the hunter was in the wrong place at the wrong time. The hunter will make a full recovery. They have not found the bear. Talk about lucky to be alive...very scary stuff!

tyee43

Win94
10-16-2007, 04:09 PM
I worked at Coal Valley mine south of Edson for two years. Last year and this year Grizzleys were seen so often that it became a ho hum experience almost.

Huntnut
10-16-2007, 05:45 PM
Or is it possible that all these bears that we are seeing are simply bears that have been pushed out of their home range by all of the oil and gas activity. Seems strange to me that their are so many sightings in the Grande Praire area after a record-(or close to it) couple of years of oil and gas exporation.

sheephunter
10-16-2007, 05:50 PM
I'm certain that has a lot to do with it but virtually all of the bears that I've seen are in areas with no gas/oil or timber activity. They are in areas where I've seen bears for the past 20 years but there just seems to be far more of them.

Win94
10-16-2007, 05:58 PM
Lets face it i think we are being duped. Afterall when at the mine it was common to have a sighting of a couple Grizz up at the plant, then a couple hours later we are being warned by dispatched of another sighting of a couple more at one of the pits 30kms away closer to Robb. We weren't seeing the same bears over and over and even our people in the environmental dept were getting edgy about all of the sightings and the limited fear these bears seemed to show. Not to mention all the big blacks in that area as well. Someones population numbers are way off me thinks. The locals that live in edson and work at the mine and travel back and forth to and from the mine haven't seen this many grizz in 15 years i am told. Take it for what its worth i guess.:rolleye2:

Rocks
10-16-2007, 07:16 PM
The first and foremost priority of the Grizzly Recovery Team should be is to get an accurate count of the population in Alberta. I don't know what methodology they're using to do their count, but a recent count in Montana showed they had way more bears than estimated, I think they used something like 2500 bait sites and another 5000 natural sites like rub trees to collect hairs and do DNA. I would hope the Alberta count is as intensive, because for all the time I and many others spend in the bush it seems like there is a healthy population, if there isn't they can implement a plan to help.

Like Ken pointed out, whoever thinks the number of bears north of Hwy 16 is "insignificant" better give their head a shake. Take a look at the Grizzly count map stickied here and you can see there is a good population north of Hinton. If I could plot all the fresh tracks I saw this year and bears I spotted last year on the map I could add about another 20 or so (all different bears), and thats just sightings from one person...

Anyways I'm willing to bet if they do a proper count they will find there are way more bears than they think.

Greasemonkey
10-16-2007, 08:42 PM
i dont agree with the provinces ascessment of the bear population there are way to many bears up here and in surrounding areas not to be accounted for,but something i would like to know is if the guy that shot two bears in valleyview was charged for shooting those two bears maybe i'm wrong here be why didnt buddy just get in his truck or shut the door of his camper if he had time to fire a couple of warning shots i'm sure he had time to get in the truck. like i said maybe i'm wrong but that shooting doesn't sound justified to me or maybe theres more to the story than is being told. dont get me wrong i'm all for protecting yourself but you also have to think anyway does the srd still use that stupid formula to count bear numbers or do they actually do areial surveys?

sheephunter
10-16-2007, 09:10 PM
Aerial survey are definitely not suited to accurately determining bear populations.

clyde
10-17-2007, 12:47 AM
http://http://www.srd.gov.ab.ca/fishwildlife/wildlifeinalberta/grizzlybearmanagement/default.aspx (http://www.srd.gov.ab.ca/fishwildlife/wildlifeinalberta/grizzlybearmanagement/default.aspx)

For those that are interested heres the link to the srd grizzly management page. Check out the documents section near the bottom it describes the process used and the numbers

Heres my favorite part from what I've read

It is important that the plan states that “regulated hunting” and “sustainable harvests” are not the “cause”
of grizzly bear declines in Alberta. Closing hunting seasons gives the false impression to the public that all
will be well for the bears if hunting is stopped.

riskytype
10-17-2007, 08:49 PM
I am totally with you on the G.Bear population between Hinton and G.P. I just spent a week along the pinto, wildhay and berland and I know of a minimum of6 different Grizzies in that area all in different areas and not the same bears. They have been there for years. twice, I was visited on a calf and cow elk calling session and another the night that I shot my first Bull Elk several years ago. There are alot of bears in there, maybe F&W should count them.
Cheers,

TreeGuy
10-17-2007, 09:31 PM
Or is it possible that all these bears that we are seeing are simply bears that have been pushed out of their home range by all of the oil and gas activity. Seems strange to me that their are so many sightings in the Grande Praire area after a record-(or close to it) couple of years of oil and gas exporation.

Just a question, but.....

Why would O&G work in fairly remote locations cause the bears to move out into areas that contain even MORE human activity? If they didn't like the drilling (ect) activity, wouldn't they move into even more REMOTE areas?

Tree

Huntnut
10-18-2007, 09:17 AM
Just a question, but.....

Why would O&G work in fairly remote locations cause the bears to move out into areas that contain even MORE human activity? If they didn't like the drilling (ect) activity, wouldn't they move into even more REMOTE areas?

Tree

Where else they gonna go? The "remote" areas are now few and far between and can hold only so many bears.

Redfrog
10-18-2007, 10:08 AM
I was hunting north of peace this fall. A local told me that their dog had been chased through the yard by a grizzly on four different occassions. Same bear?? I don't know.
We were in wall tents on this trip. I got up at 3 a.m. to check to see if I had left the Northern lights on:lol: and while I was doing that I decided to mark my territory.
About 40 yards away in the dark I could make out a sillouette archery target of a grizzly. Hey wait a minute!!! we don't have any archers in camp. I shone my surefire and backed into the tent to grab my rifle. I woke my partner, and he came out with me. We stood quietly and watched as the bear investigated our camp. He checked out the tents of the other guys and moved off.
BTW, There are no grizzlies in that area:rolleye2: :rolleye2: according to F/W

Papershredder
10-18-2007, 10:20 AM
I've seen up to 6 different grizzlies on my 45 minute drive to work in 1 morning. Many other times I've seen 3 or 4 along the same route. These were all 2 year old bears, usually in pairs. This suggests that many young bears are surviving, and the population is actually rising not dropping.

fishead
10-18-2007, 03:31 PM
Not a big hunter guys, I mostly fly fish and have seen numerous grizzlies. What I am curious about is why bait them ? isn't that half of the fun of going hunting, I mean actually finding the animal yourself stalking it and taking it down??

Jamie
10-18-2007, 03:39 PM
Fish..
There is no Grizz baiting in Alberta.
The baiting they are referring to applies to Black Bears.
Some of the reasons you may bait Black bears are
Some areas are so thick with tress it would be almost impossible to hunt bears otherwise
A good look at the bear. This way you can take some time to make sure there are no cubs. Its illegal to shot bears with cubs, so a long look is most advantageous. I ALMOST pulled the trigger on a bear this past fall only to finally see she had 2 little cubs with her. If I was over a bait this wouldn't have even been a issue.

Hope that helps out a bit

Jamie
BTW.. Its also kinda fun to have a bear that close to you.. And don't think its easy.. It takes a ton of work to properly put together a bait site.

fishead
10-18-2007, 05:34 PM
Thanks for that Jamie, I can see why you would not want to shoot bears with cubs.

Just curious is all.

bearbait
10-20-2007, 09:41 AM
swan hills gizz population is alive and very well...ive seen 6 this year in the swanhills area...theres 4 that ive seen in the meekwap and 2 in the berland...
if ive seen that menny yhen how many are really out there???

typical gvernment bs!!!they need to get there facts straight...if they dont want us to hunt them fine...but dont lie to us...
rob

clyde
10-20-2007, 10:47 AM
Just rumors so far but have heard that all areas south of Hwy 3 will be closed to OHV next years and there is a possibility that there will be a Grizzly Bear sanctuary (possibly named after Klein) in WMU 402. Lots of rumors out there but these come from pretty crediable sources

lazy ike
10-20-2007, 12:53 PM
The whole province is currently a Grizzly Sanctuary and given Kleins involvement with the IMHA, I for one would be a might ****ed if any area was designated and a wildlife refuge in Ralphies name.

700TI
10-21-2007, 09:31 PM
Just rumors so far but have heard that all areas south of Hwy 3 will be closed to OHV next years and there is a possibility that there will be a Grizzly Bear sanctuary (possibly named after Klein) in WMU 402. Lots of rumors out there but these come from pretty crediable sources

This is compliments of our new "hero" Ted Morton. By the time he's done all the eastern slopes will be parks. He will shut down atv's in 400. and then the only place to ride your ohv will be 402. And they will wonder why there is so much traffic in 402. Why are all the ignorant people in politics. (and real estate):D

Jamie
10-21-2007, 10:06 PM
700.. Not sure where the real estate comment came from..
Care to explain a bit more?

Jamie

700TI
10-22-2007, 08:56 AM
LazyIke, I don't know what the IMHA has to do with the Grizzly topic. Are you just looking for someone to blame?

Jamie, there is a :D after my comment. (It means it's a funny). I'm sorry if i hurt your feelings. Do you know anyone in the real estate business? I guess I could have used lawyers, but Realty vampires were the first to come to mind.

clyde
10-22-2007, 09:09 AM
A lot of 402 is already off limits to OHV -BeeHive, Don Getty, Bob Creek, Livingston and the rumors are (I stress just rumors) that the Oldman River North road will be closed from the falls west and north to 404 to OHV and their going to some howc make it a designated grizzly protection area. I agree that there has been to much area closed to OHV's and that now there is no choice but to close it all because the areas that remain open can't hold even those of us that respectfully use OHV's.

sheephunter
10-22-2007, 09:12 AM
As they did with the caribou recovery team recommendations...it looks as though the government is picking and choosing not the most effective methods of helping the bears recover but the ones that will have the least economic impact on the province and the ones that will have the least political fallout. Not really the most effective means of wildlife management.

Jamie
10-22-2007, 04:52 PM
Quote
"Jamie, there is a after my comment. (It means it's a funny). I'm sorry if i hurt your feelings. Do you know anyone in the real estate business? I guess I could have used lawyers, but Realty vampires were the first to come to mind."

Not a issue, just wondering if there was something going on with private land ownership is all.

Jamie

BGSH
12-03-2011, 01:44 PM
swan hills gizz population is alive and very well...ive seen 6 this year in the swanhills area...theres 4 that ive seen in the meekwap and 2 in the berland...
if ive seen that menny yhen how many are really out there???

typical gvernment bs!!!they need to get there facts straight...if they dont want us to hunt them fine...but dont lie to us...
rob

x2, even though i have yet to see a Grizzly bear in Alberta, i agree the beats on a steady climb, it has been 4 years since this thread has started, interesting finds this past summer with many Grizzly sightings, had the chance to see some grizzly bear tracks in October by the blackstone, huge prints, was so cool to see, Thanks for posting this article, if grizzly populations keep increasing there would probably be a very limited hunt for them, good to see them populating again though.

Shawn

James M
12-03-2011, 03:17 PM
Last comment was from 4 years ago BGSH.......

CaberTosser
12-03-2011, 03:27 PM
Last comment was from 4 years ago BGSH.......

He did note that in his post James; but I can relate to not wanting to read his posts as that's just time you won't ever get back. It's like elevator music or the large amount of celery in chinese food.

CaberTosser
12-03-2011, 03:29 PM
Last comment was from 4 years ago BGSH.......

He did note that in his post James; but I can relate to not wanting to read his posts as that's just time you won't ever get back. It's like elevator music or the large amount of celery in some chinese food: empty filler.

Jorg
12-03-2011, 06:24 PM
Reading the same post twice is time I will never get back either -- is there a rule about restarting old threads or should one always start a new one ?

greylynx
12-03-2011, 06:27 PM
Reading the same post twice is time I will never get back either -- is there a rule about restarting old threads or should one always start a new one ?

x2

ruttnbuckcojack
12-03-2011, 07:57 PM
Never understood why this topic is even remotely discussed on the forum for most of Albertans know the truth about Grizzly bears, but some Tree hugger is sucking off some politican somewhere to keep the facts fudged and the truth away from the citizens of Alberta

CaberTosser
12-03-2011, 08:49 PM
Technical anomaly on something here lads, that was supposed to just be an edit of the first post to add the "empty filler" bit..... Odd.....:thinking-006:

Jorg
12-03-2011, 08:57 PM
Technical anomaly on something here lads, that was supposed to just be an edit of the first post to add the "empty filler" bit..... Odd.....:thinking-006:

Ahhh understood you were editing your post so you could insult and belittle a young outdoorsman a little better---- it's getting old

sdkidaho
12-03-2011, 11:11 PM
You all are welcome to our grizzlies if you're running low.

They don't allow us to hunt them due to "low" numbers. I'm pretty sure the same guys that count the wolves count the grizzlies...