Brown Bear Caliber ?

[full_throttle]

Wondering everyone's opinion on a brown bear caliber? Is a 30 caliber with a barnes bullet going to do the job? I am thinking of taking my 300 WSM with a 180 grain barnes.

[Jamie Black R/T]

Shot placement. Shot Placement. SHOT PLACEMENT! :sHa_sarcasticlol:

your fast 30 will do the job quite nicely IMO.

if it was me id be taking my .270win :scared0018:

[timsesink]

The fast .30 will certainly do the job though I personally would use the hunt as an exscuse to ger either a .338 mag or a 375 HH or 375 Ruger :)

[ACKLEY ABE]

I'd use a 338 mag, but then again I have one. I wouldn't think twice about a 180 in a big 30. It will do just fine. A good freind has taken 7 Griz........with a 30.06.

[Jamie Black R/T]

The fast .30 will certainly do the job though I personally would use the hunt as an exscuse to ger either a .338 mag or a 375 HH or 375 Ruger :)

discard my first post...this man is spot on.

Your WSM is useless against the unstoppable force that is the coastal grizzly. Time to go gun shopping.

:sHa_shakeshout:

[sns2]

Nothing below a .500 A-Square. It sends a 600 grain Monolithic Solid Projectile down the range at 2,500 feet per second, to create an 8200 foot pounds of energy upon impact. And the good thing is ammo is only $18.95 per round. Shot one of these at the range last year and am convinced it will do the job on a griz, and if you see a whitetail doe you might be able to get her too.

[full_throttle]

I also have a 375 RUGER, but IMO I would rather shoot the 300 WSM. Both guns shoot under 1".

[Rockymtnx]

I would take the 375. It will give you way more energy and close to another 100 grains of lead hittig them.
On those big bears you want to do some damage, and release some enegry into them. I have had a few friends take coastal grizzlies in the past couple years. These bears are tough.
I know of one other AO member that used a smaller gun and he did kill his bear. If you have the fire power why not use it?

[3Dshooter]

I would take the 375. It will give you way more energy and close to another 100 grains of lead hittig them.
On those big bears you want to do some damage, and release some enegry into them. I have had a few friends take coastal grizzlies in the past couple years. These bears are tough.
I know of one other AO member that used a smaller gun and he did kill his bear. If you have the fire power why not use it?

Agree! But I say take both along. The .375 Ruger Alaskan was taylor made for this hunt! Feed it 270 or 300 grain Barnes TSX's and you're set. I'd take the 300 WSM along as a second gun and stoke it with 180 or 200 grain TSX's!

I've hunted coastal grizzlies and have waded Alaskan rivers with brown bears. Things can and often do happen very close.. but a shot might present itself on the tidal flats and estuaries as well. You're ready to go with either set up, but for me, the .375 would be my primary.

[gramps73]

I would not think twice about the Marlin 444 with the new lever ammo in a 265 grain..

[3Dshooter]

I would not think twice about the Marlin 444 with the new lever ammo in a 265 grain..

Ya, I wouldn't either! Because I wouldn't think once about it!:sign0161:

[BrownBear416]

300 will work fine..

338 would be even better..

375 would be perfect..

9.3x62 with 286 gr reloads would be perfect and pretty classy :sHa_shakeshout:

[Floyd Texas]

45-70 in a lever would be pretty cool on a bear:sHa_shakeshout:

[hal53]

Yup!...cool if you want to P him off...other than that I would go with BB416's recommendations...JMHO

[wwbirds]

If you are hunting the bear the 30-06 will be fine with good bulllet placement.

If the bear is hunting you the diapers and the 375 H & H bring peace of mind.
I had a client take an Alaskan Brown in self defence while fishing in Alaska summer 2009 with a 45-70.

[BallCoeff.435]

.458 Lott, in Ruger 77 mkII or Mauser 98.

Or .450/.400 NE - 3" double rifle.

Sure you could use a spear too, but why screw around in that situation?

[PoppaW]

Bigger the better. I would take the 375 minimum. Most likely I would take my 510. 600's at 2100-2200 would be sweet.

[Traps]

LOL, a bear is not a mythical creature. A 30-06 will do it hands down.

[ABDUKNUT]

LOL, a bear is not a mythical creature. A 30-06 will do it hands down.

Makes perfect sense. Contact the Alaska Dept of Fish & Game, they have quite a bit of info on hunting their bears up there and the last time I checked they recommend the .30-06, .300 Win Mag and .338 Win Mag.

[PoppaW]

What is needed and what is wanted are two different things.

[DanJ]

I'm told you should aim to bust up the bear's shoulder so he won't be able to charge you. Those big critters can charge with their heart shot out. Good luck and be careful.

[Elkaholic6]

700 Nitro?

[leo]

If I was spending upwards of $20,000 specifically on an Alaskan brown bear hunt, I wouldn't think twice about spending $3000 on a new rifle and optics. 375 Magnum for this guy. If I was deer hunting with anything from a 257 weatherby and larger (assuming a well constructed bullet is being used)and a bear came in range , the shot angle was good and the animal was unawares . I would take the shot.

[PoppaW]

I'm told you should aim to bust up the bear's shoulder so he won't be able to charge you. Those big critters can charge with their heart shot out. Good luck and be careful.

If you want to stop a big bear, or any animal you need to have a CNS shot. Central Nervous System. If you shock or destroy the spine it will drop the animal and the closer to the brain the more likely the animal will die. Breaking a shoulder with a 243 will not save your life. The more shock and damage that can be done the better. If you have a gun that will shock the nervous system and take out a heart or lungs or liver then its even better. A 257 into a deer and it drops is not out of respect for Mr Weatherby's design. It is because the fast expanding bullet going through the lungs also had enough shock to stun or damage the Nervous System. The bigger the animal the bigger the gun needed to do this. You can make a bullet go faster to do this or go up in size, or both. The only problem with fast is it's hard to keep the bullets together and doing their job and as you go bigger recoil becomes a factor for some. If you have a 30-06 and shoot it well then go ahead but don't shoot once and admire your shot. Be ready to keep shooting. The same goes for big. If you don't shoot it well use some thing smaller. With a little practice a 375 is very easy to shoot well.

[PoppaW]

Makes perfect sense. Contact the Alaska Dept of Fish & Game, they have quite a bit of info on hunting their bears up there and the last time I checked they recommend the .30-06, .300 Win Mag and .338 Win Mag.

The last time I saw this info I think it was a study done in the 80's. They had flawed testing and bad bullets to choose from. I think one test was shooting a steel plate to see the reaction. This was the test that said a 460 did less than a 458Win because the 460 punched a clean hole through the plate and the 458 made a bigger hole and curled the edges.
If they have new info I would like to see it as it would be useful and a good read.

[huntinstuff]

Your 300 will be fine. Your shot should be behind the shoulder. There isnt an animal on the planet that will live if you shoot it in the lungs or heart. Take your time and send that bullet where it belongs

I shot a griz between the eyes with my 3006 with 180g Nosler Partition and the skull was split and splintered. It was dead before it hit the ground....at a distance of 12ft......

I hope u dont get that close but it will do the job if he charges.

Just take you time with the shot. Many many times I have had to tell clients to wait just so they can get a perfect shot on a bear. Be patient. You owe it to yourself and the bear

[steve]

LOL, a bear is not a mythical creature. A 30-06 will do it hands down.

X2

Some guys get this idea in their head that once you leave AB the bears are armor plated and carry concealed weapons.

[sns2]

700 Nitro?

Now you're talkin smart:bad_boys_20:

[BrownBear416]

Your 300 will be fine. Your shot should be behind the shoulder. There isnt an animal on the planet that will live if you shoot it in the lungs or heart. Take your time and send that bullet where it belongs

I shot a griz between the eyes with my 3006 with 180g Nosler Partition and the skull was split and splintered. It was dead before it hit the ground....at a distance of 12ft......

I hope u dont get that close but it will do the job if he charges.

Just take you time with the shot. Many many times I have had to tell clients to wait just so they can get a perfect shot on a bear. Be patient. You owe it to yourself and the bear

No but there is some that can live long enough to kill you

Not many animals can go very far with both shoulders broke

I would rather see a grizz drop on the spot with a well placed round through both shoulders then to follow one into the thick stuff on the assumption that you have a good lung shot..

My 1 cent anyways..

[Skinnydipper]

I have both a 300 WSM and a 375 Ruger and if I was heading out specifically to hunt big bruins, I would most certainly bring the big guy. I believe both would do the job but the 375 would be more suitable for all situations not just the ideal ones.

[Lefty]

The 300 will do the job. Have shot a few grizz with the 375 and really liked how it worked. I would shoot behind the shoulder. The only bears that I have had to follow up were on blacks that had been shot in the shoulder. On one of them the bullet went through the shoulder without breaking it and then broke the far shoulder. Got the bear 45 minutes later and a few hundred yards away. Behind the shoulder has never given me any trouble.

[slough shark]

If you have it already the bigger gun in my mind would be better, not because the smaller gun wouldn't kill them quite well, more of a piece of mind sort of thing. I would just feel more comfortable with the larger one because I would be thinking that sure the smaller one would do the job but just in case things don't go well I would want the larger one. I suspect based on the fact you are asking you are going to take the larger one :-)

[.330 Dakota]

I have both a 300 WSM and a 375 Ruger and if I was heading out specifically to hunt big bruins, I would most certainly bring the big guy. I believe both would do the job but the 375 would be more suitable for all situations not just the ideal ones.


I agree and I am from BC. The 300 will do it but if things go bad, and they can really fast then I would want to anchor the bear right there.
The 375 with 300 grainers is the way to go for sure.

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

were it me deciding, I think the terrain would influence my decision.

are the shots likely to be up close and personal?

or will you always have some distance and perhaps time to set up a shot?

I trust my .270 to go where I aim it, but I don't always trust I can aim it in a big hurry. for that I would choose a different rifle and caliber/cartridge.

Everyone so far has given good advice, but most are based on one senario.

What is yours?

[jetboat175]

Marlin 444 is perfect for the job....................

[jetboat175]

Someone is asking about a brown bear caliber someone thinks a 270 wsm is the perfect gun? Are you serious? Someone is asking people for there professtional opinion.

[Iron Brew]

Kind of curious as to why Hal poo poos the 45-70? If it is suitable for travelling stem to stern in a cape buffalo, why wouldn't it work in a brown? FWIW, I would NOT personally use it on a cape, but I have no concerns for it anywhere in north america...

[Segundo]

SO what will your bear guide think if you hop out of the plane with a small caliber gun. If you are fortunate enough to take a shot at one , do you think your guide will be just watching, or anchoring it for you aswell . do you think you will be the one crawling through the willows looking for it ...

Get something the outfitter recommends . Don't cheap out for likely a once in a lifetime thing, if your going.

[gunslinger]

You bet full your good to go, the one fella that was in camp with me was hunting on a salmon run, he had about a 15 yard hole to shoot through from up on the hill. He hit em good but with the 300 the old shoulder will drop em at a good range.

I shot mine with 30-06 165 grain hornady , took a few though but i got em. I made a shot on the run away from me, spun em around and kept plugging em

[Deer Hunter]

What ranges do the guides try to get you into before giving you the green light? Can you reasonably get under 100 yrds on a preoccupied grizzly?

[MK2750]

If I had even a lame excuse I would be all over this. You have an excuse:)

32295
32296

It is for sale on Gunnutz. 338 win

[PoppaW]

Marlin 444 is perfect for the job....................

Why choose a gun that pushes bullets designed for a 44mag pistol and shoots them faster than what they are desinged for. Sounds like a failure waiting to happen.
I don't understand why so many are fixated on trying to kill one of the biggest animals in North America with the smallest possible gun. Common sense says get something with a bit more jam than a moose gun. Lots of good ones and quite a few 375 cal ones. These are ideal because you can shoot them in an average weight gun and not get kicked too hard.

[gunslinger]

What ranges do the guides try to get you into before giving you the green light? Can you reasonably get under 100 yrds on a preoccupied grizzly?


You bet this is the range exactly. They like to even be closer if possible, and they are with you lined in on the animal to back you up if you choose, the worse thing with alaska is the alders, if the brown bear gets in the alders its the worst scenario a hunter and guide can ask for. A wounded brown bear will lay down and try to fat plug and if you go in its dangerous,

So before the hunt even starts they talk to you about backing you up,
This is once again why the outfitters that take bow hunters are so respected there because of the no back up in order and the danger that exists, my outfitter will never take a bow hunter, he told me if he was 18 again he might but it aint worth it he told me,lol.

[jimbo1]

i honestly cant belive nobody has recommended the 35 whelen????? the ballistics seem to really recommend it for bear hunting!

[bowhunter9841]

If you really want a rush, go get a bow, and get real close! The guide will probably be shooting a 375 anyways! So you won't have to worry about charging! And if you can't get close enough to take it with s bow, grab the guides gun and blast it! Good luck on your hunt! Can't wait to see the pictures this spring/fall!

[Mountain Guy]

No but there is some that can live long enough to kill you

Not many animals can go very far with both shoulders broke

I would rather see a grizz drop on the spot with a well placed round through both shoulders then to follow one into the thick stuff on the assumption that you have a good lung shot..

My 1 cent anyways..

I would rather have a heart/lung shot grizzly than one with 1 broken shoulder and 1 sore shoulder. Don't think a shoulder shot grizzly necessarily constitutes a bear with 2 broken shoulders. I think a grizzly can do a lot more damage to you with a broken shoulder than one with it's heart or lungs taken out.
My 1 cent..

[sheephunter]

I would rather have a heart/lung shot grizzly than one with 1 broken shoulder and 1 sore shoulder. Don't think a shoulder shot grizzly necessarily constitutes a bear with 2 broken shoulders. I think a grizzly can do a lot more damage to you with a broken shoulder than one with it's heart or lungs taken out.
My 1 cent..

I think that's why bullet selection is so critical on game like this. You need a bullet that will take out both shoulders. I'd say bullet selection is far more critical than cartridge...within reason of course.

[Pathfinder76]

Has anyone here actually "taken out both shoulders" on a grizzly/brown bear? Or any bear for that matter.

[sheephunter]

Has anyone here actually "taken out both shoulders" on a grizzly/brown bear? Or any bear for that matter.

Yup.

[jimbo1]

soooo i take it nobody rates the 35 whelen as a bear calibre then? lol:)

[Rockymtnx]

Has anyone here actually "taken out both shoulders" on a grizzly/brown bear? Or any bear for that matter.

I did on a 400 pound black bear, using 300 Wby with 180gr Failsafes.

[jim-bo]

I am the crazy b*stard that would use a bow, but if I was to take a rifle it would be inclined to use whatever, 308 win and up (30-06, 338-06, 35 whelen, 8/9mm mauser, 300 win/wsm/wby, 325 wsm, 300 rum, 338 fed, 338 rum, 338 win, 338 rcm, 375 Ruger/H&H, 416 Rigby, 458 win/lott, etc...) with a minimum of 180 gr. of hurt. This covers a tonne of calibers.

And your guide is going to be packing a big boom stick, so no need to worry or lose sleep over it.

If i had something line a 375 ruger, then i would use that, but if i didn't what ever i had or wanted to use.

[Okotokian]

As I've said before, IF I was prepared to buy a new rifle for the task, I don't know why I wouldn't choose the one with the most knock-down power that I could comfortably shoot well.

I'd see the choice as more of an issue on a DYI hunt than a guided one, where you at least should have some back-up.

[Pathfinder76]

I did on a 400 pound black bear, using 300 Wby with 180gr Failsafes.

I don't question the ability of any caliber to do the job, but being in on over two dozen dead bear, half my own, I've yet to see an angle that allowed it. Are we talking shoulder muscle or bone?

[Pathfinder76]

Yup.

Details please.

[sheephunter]

Details please.

Grizzly, Yukon, roughly 100 yards, broadside, 300WM, 180 grain TBBC, busted both shoulders and exited, bear died, I have a nice hide with a hole in each shoulder hanging in my basement, I was happy :).

[Pathfinder76]

Grizzly, Yukon, roughly 100 yards, broddside, 300WM, 180 grain TBBC, busted both shoulders and exited, bear died, I have a nice hide with a hole in each shoulder hanging in my basement, I was happy :).

And that is your recommended shot?

I'm curious how the bear reacted.

[sheephunter]

And that is your recommended shot?

I'm curious how the bear reacted.

I wouldn't hesitate to do it again. Bear collapsed, regained rear legs momentarily, ploughed a short trough ahead and then died. I was happy no tracking was required. Yup, I reckon I would recommend it.

I've shot numerous black bears in one shoulder or one and part of another and never had to look far for them. Seems to work for me.

[Pathfinder76]

I wouldn't hesitate to do it again. Bear collapsed, regained rear legs momentarily, ploughed a short trough ahead and then died. I was happy no tracking was required. Yup, I reckon I would recommend it.

I've shot numerous black bears in one shoulder or one and part of another and never had to look far for them. Seems to work for me.

Oh I'm sure it works. My problem with recommending it is that unless you are Jackie Bushman the chances of getting the proper angle to execute it are slim.

I'm so glad allot of this stuff is now on video.

[sheephunter]

So you bust the near shoulder and take out lungs and perhaps heart on exit or take out heart and lungs on entry and take out shoulder on exit. Regardless of angle, I'm taking one shoulder and preferably two. I didn't think I had to explain that to execute the shot that both shoulders need to be lined up. I'm sure most people got that. I had an opportunity where both shoulders lined up and I squeezed the trigger....not really that remarkable. Did the same thing on my Dall sheep this year and Vanessa did it on her bighorn a few years ago.....it happens. I can show you the video ;)

[Mountain Guy]

correct me if m wrong...but a shoulder shot at 90 degree would / could miss any vitals where as behind the shoulder will / should hit the vitals.
I'm not a grizz expert but my thinking is that a shoulder shot is no guarantee of a disabling shot. Could a bullet not just pass thru a shoulder blade and not disable ? I know bears are probably the toughest critters in these parts and I would think that a hole in a shoulder blade or 2 may not disable. I guess the same would apply to a heart / lung shot but at least that is a mortal shot.
I think I'd rather have a mortally wounded bear chewing on me over a bear with sore shoulders :scared:

[sheephunter]

Shots to solid bone cause some massive disruption to the central nervous system and typically end up with animals hitting the ground hard. You don't simply put a hole through the shoulder when reasonable velocity is involed, you smash and devestate bone all the way through. A follow up shot may be required (often not) but if it is, the animal is right there. You take out both shoulders and a bear is going no where. At least that's been my experience.

[Pathfinder76]

Shots to solid bone cause some massive disruption to the central nervous system and typically end up with animals hitting the ground hard.

:snapoutofit:

[sheephunter]

:snapoutofit:

LOL...you've had different results with double shoulder hits?

[Pathfinder76]

LOL...you've had different results with double shoulder hits?

I'm no doctor, but shots to massive bone do not necessarily cause massive disruption to the CNS. I mean come on. When an animal is bearing weight on his front end and you break both legs he will put his nose in the dirt because those bones are what is holding him up. It has nothing to do with his spine or brain.

[sheephunter]

I'm no doctor, but shots to massive bone do not necessarily cause massive disruption to the CNS. I mean come on. When an animal is bearing weight on his front end and you break both legs he will put his nose in the dirt because those bones are what is holding him up. It has nothing to do with his spine or brain.

I've also seen animals go completely stiff legged and lie on their side totally rigid only to try and get up a miniute or two later. Sounds like a central nervous system disruption to me...I mean come on. I've got video ;) You cause major trama to bone near the spine and there is going to be temporary central nervous system disruption. I do agree with you, however, you're right, you are no doctor.

[PoppaW]

you are no doctor.

Maybe he stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.
Sorry

[Pathfinder76]

I've also seen animals go completely stiff legged and lie on their side totally rigid only to try and get up a miniute or two later. Sounds like a central nervous system disruption to me...I mean come on. I've got video ;) You cause major trama to bone near the spine and there is going to be temporary central nervous system disruption. I do agree with you, however, you're right, you are no doctor.

Are you running for office somewhere? You moonwalk in circles better than Michael Jackson.

[LongDraw]

I've also seen animals go completely stiff legged and lie on their side totally rigid only to try and get up a miniute or two later. Sounds like a central nervous system disruption to me...I mean come on. I've got video ;) You cause major trama to bone near the spine and there is going to be temporary central nervous system disruption. I do agree with you, however, you're right, you are no doctor.

Sounds like a shockwave!? LOL!

[cpppark]

375 h&h with 300 grain Swift A Frames. Always worked for me.

[sheephunter]

Are you running for office somewhere? You moonwalk in circles better than Michael Jackson.

LOL...I've said the same thing since the beginning. You seem to be the one having trouble understanding. I find it interesting how knowledgeable you are about shoulder shots considering you don't seem to be a fan....:)

Tell me what caused the ram at 7 seconds to fall over and go legs in the air. BTW it was a high shoulder shot.

http://www.youtube.com/user/sheephunterab?feature=mhum#p/u/4/Gl1aZA4Q40E

[sheephunter]

Sounds like a shockwave!? LOL!

LOL.....not quite. I've never said that a temporary disruption of the nervous system wasn't very possible...but it's rarely deadly....almost never as a matter of fact but it sure can cause lights out for a few seconds or longer.

[Mountain Guy]

LOL.....not quite. I've never said that a temporary disruption of the nervous system wasn't very possible...but it's rarely deadly....almost never as a matter of fact but it sure can cause lights out for a few seconds or longer.

Well... a shot behind the shoulder can cause the same disruption to the nervous system in the form of energy dissipation released. The energy release is what drops an animal on the spot...outside of a spine or head shot.

[Pathfinder76]

This is getting good.

[sheephunter]

Well... a shot behind the shoulder can cause the same disruption to the nervous system in the form of energy dissipation released. The energy release is what drops an animal on the spot...outside of a spine or head shot.

Shoot 'em where you're comfortable but experience tells me that a shoulder shot results in far more animals hitting the deck on the spot.....something extremely desireable with bears. I'll resist the temptation to debate how bullets do their work.

[Pathfinder76]

LOL...I've said the same thing since the beginning. You seem to be the one having trouble understanding. I find it interesting how knowledgeable you are about shoulder shots considering you don't seem to be a fan....:)

Tell me what caused the ram at 7 seconds to fall over and go legs in the air. BTW it was a high shoulder shot.

http://www.youtube.com/user/sheephunterab?feature=mhum#p/u/4/Gl1aZA4Q40E

You said, and I quote, "Shots to solid bone cause some massive disruption to the central nervous system and typically end up with animals hitting the ground hard."

I don't care how many weird hunting show trailers you show. That is an unequivocal load of crap.

[sheephunter]

You said, and I quote, "Shots to solid bone cause some massive disruption to the central nervous system and typically end up with animals hitting the ground hard."

I don't care how many weird hunting show trailers you show. That is an unequivocal load of crap.

Why again did the ram go feet in the air?

You were the one that said, and I quote "I'm so glad allot of this stuff is now on video."

;)

[Mountain Guy]

Shoot 'em where you're comfortable but experience tells me that a shoulder shot results in far more animals hitting the deck on the spot.....something extremely desireable with bears. I'll resist the temptation to debate how bullets do their work.

I'm going to say then.... not with a 30-06 it won't. If...as part of the discussion in this thread.... your not using a big bore, then we can argue that the heart /lung shot is the better option.....

[Pathfinder76]

Why again did the ram go feet in the air?

You were the one that said, and I quote "I'm so glad allot of this stuff is now on video."

;)

Dude, when you disrupt the spine you often disrupt the CNS. A "high" (read I missed) shoulder shot often will disrupt the spine. Please tell me how that applies to this statement you keep dancing around. "Shots to solid bone cause some massive disruption to the central nervous system and typically end up with animals hitting the ground hard."

This is exactly why "I'm so glad allot of this stuff is now on video."

[sheephunter]

I'm going to say then.... not with a 30-06 it won't. If...as part of the discussion in this thread.... your not using a big bore, then we can argue that the heart /lung shot is the better option.....

I punched my grizz through the shoulders with a 300WM......shooting the same bullet a 30-06 uses. The ram was hit with a 270. Type of bullet trumps cartridge. Not saying the heart/lungs is a bad option, but even with a .30-06 it wouldn't be my first choice. I'd still shoot shoulders.

[sheephunter]

Dude, when you disrupt the spine you often disrupt the CNS. A "high" (read I missed) shoulder shot often will disrupt the spine. Please tell me how that applies to this statement you keep dancing around. "Shots to solid bone cause some massive disruption to the central nervous system and typically end up with animals hitting the ground hard."

This is exactly why "I'm so glad allot of this stuff is now on video."

Since we were discussing shoulder shots, I just figured some things were a given. You understand where the shoulder sits...right?

[Mountain Guy]

I punched my grizz through the shoulders with a 300WM......shooting the same bullet a 30-06 uses. The ram was hit with a 270. Type of bullet trumps cartridge. Not saying the heart/lungs is a bad option, but even with a .30-06 it wouldn't be my first choice. I'd still shoot shoulders.

I think your missing some important variables in your comment....one being distance. I would argue that at ..lets say 300 yards...a 06 would be better placed into the shoulder verses parting the ribs.....solid copper bullet or not








--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Forum Rules



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:51 PM.


Contact Us - Alberta Outdoorsmen Forum - Archive - Top


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2011, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. r bullet or not.
D

[sheephunter]

[QUOTE=Mountain Guy;833210]I think your missing some important variables in your comment....one being distance. I would argue that at ..lets say 300 yards...a 06 would be better placed into the shoulder verses parting the ribs.....solid copper bullet or not

The thing about solid copper bullets is that they don't penetrate as well at very high velocities as they do at mid velocities. Typically, a very close shot will result in less penetration, but the rapid expansion of the bullet is devestating where a mid range shot will typically offer more penetration due to less rapid expansion. Obviously there are cases for a heart/lung shot but under normal hunting conditions for grizz, I'll take the shoulder every time, and have. I hit the ram in the video at 371 yards and had a complete pass through, breaking a lot of bone as the bullet went and it wasn't even a mono metal bullet.

I'm not saying selecting the heart/lungs is wrong but experience leads me to the conclusion that I'll stick with shoulders.

[sns2]

Of all the guys to argue with, I would suggest that Sheephunter would be the last one you should imply is up his rear-end.

Dude, you break shoulders and the animal is going down, and at the very least offering you what is almost always a high quality follow up shot. As I'm sure you know, this is not always the case with a lung shot.

You want the animal on the ground, especially a brown bear. He can chew your arss off.:argue2:

[hal53]

Of all the guys to argue with, I would suggest that Sheephunter would be the last one you should imply is up his rear-end.

Dude, you break shoulders and the animal is going down, and at the very least offering you what is almost always a high quality follow up shot. As I'm sure you know, this is not always the case with a lung shot.

You want the animal on the ground, especially a brown bear. He can chew your arss off.:argue2:
was just going to say the same thing!...Browns and Grizzlies ....break down their locomotion....no front shoulders...not going far, not to mention the shock trauma to the CNS as TJ has mentioned.....

[Traps]

Breaking shoulders is the same as Chucks argument......no legs to stand on.

[BrownBear416]

I don't question the ability of any caliber to do the job, but being in on over two dozen dead bear, half my own, I've yet to see an angle that allowed it. Are we talking shoulder muscle or bone?

Ive been in on probably 50+ plus bear kills (close to 20 of my own) and I have seen lots of bears drop in their tracks with 1 or both shoulders broke..

One thing I have never seen on a bear is a quality bullet fired from a large caliber firearm stop on the shoulder and not enter the lungs :)

Ive also found that bears shot in the shoulders that do get back up on their feet cant go very far, very fast and 99% of the time allow for an anchoring 2nd shot..

My thoughts anyways :)

[Rockymtnx]

I don't question the ability of any caliber to do the job, but being in on over two dozen dead bear, half my own, I've yet to see an angle that allowed it. Are we talking shoulder muscle or bone?

The bullet travelled through the first shoulder disintegrating the ball joint and severely damaging the shoulder blade right above the ball joint socket on the opposite side. Your right the angle has to be perfect, but yes it can happen.
Just an example where a MAGNUM may just out perform and non-magnum cartridge.

[Rockymtnx]

On the same topic, one large black bear that I double lunged went 250 - 275 yards before he piled up. Considering I was only 125 yards from him when I pulled the pin, the bear could have just as easily came towards me. I know with a broken front end on him, he wouldn't have been travelling that distance. I know it would be pretty hard for one to come after me with no front wheels on him.

[Mountain Guy]

On the same topic, one large black bear that I double lunged went 250 - 275 yards before he piled up. Considering I was only 125 yards from him when I pulled the pin, the bear could have just as easily came towards me. I know with a broken front end on him, he wouldn't have been travelling that distance. I know it would be pretty hard for one to come after me with no front wheels on him.

Geez....it seems as every shoulder shot you guys refer to are double shoulder take outs??
So..everybody agrees that a shoulder shot is going to take out both shoulders??
Thats where I disagree.... anybody that can agree with that can also see that a ''three'' wheeled bear is a dangerous bear.

[sheephunter]

Geez....it seems as every shoulder shot you guys refer to are double shoulder take outs??
So..everybody agrees that a shoulder shot is going to take out both shoulders??
Thats where I disagree.... anybody that can agree with that can also see that a ''three'' wheeled bear is a dangerous bear.

I think you are missing a critical component MG. The bullet doesn't stop on the near shoulder, it continues through and damages what's behind it. For a perfectly broadside shot, that means the other shoulder goes. If the bear is slightly qarteruing away, I'm aiming for lungs and taking out the far shoulder. If it's quartering to me, I'm taking out the near shoulder and exiting through the lungs. It's all a matter of playing the angle presented. You are never going to be presented with the option of taking out both shoulders every time. My goal is to get at least one shoulder and lungs and two shoulders if possible. With a good bullet, it's not like you are going to punch a small hole in the shoulder blade with no other damage. What's behind it is going to get a whole world of hurt too!

[Rockymtnx]

So..everybody agrees that a shoulder shot is going to take out both shoulders??
Nope didn't see where anyone said that. I do see some examples of where people have made double shoulder shots.

Thats where I disagree.... anybody that can agree with that can also see that a ''three'' wheeled bear is a dangerous bear.
Yup a 3 wheeled bear is going to be dangerous. One thing though, he is going to be a heck of a lot slower than a 4 wheeled bear. Hopefully when you hit him in that first shoulder you have released maximum energy from the bullet, and that's going to do some hurt. If you place that bullet in the shoulders and it stops in the animal you release 100% of the potential energy there is. If you take that same bullet and stick it through the lungs, and the bullet exits the body, there is a good chunk of energy that is not released into that animal.

[3Dshooter]

Maybe he stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.
Sorry

I don't care who you are,... that's funny right there!

[ram crazy]

I don't question the ability of any caliber to do the job, but being in on over two dozen dead bear, half my own, I've yet to see an angle that allowed it. Are we talking shoulder muscle or bone?

Them custom rifles probably hit Bears better than those pesky Rams though.

[Jamie]

This is what was told to me by 2 of the best Brown Bear guides in Alaska

Perfect Broad side, take out the 2 shoulders
1/4 away Aim for the far shoulder

Perfect is 1/4 away with taking out the far shoulder
But total broad side is just fine. PROVIDING you break shoulders.

First shot really counts and then start aiming at mass.
I used a 375

My Bear was a one shot deal that was a high shoulder shot followed by the bear drowing in the creek.

These are BIG animals. Dont mess with them. Make the first shoot count.

I can personaly attest to the fact that you can stun these bears, I saw that Bear drown with my own eyes.

[silver]

The 30 mags with a premium bullet will usually do the job. If I were going on a brown bear hunt, it would be a once in a lifetime deal. I would take as big a caliber as I could properly shoot. I bought a big bore this fall and since I reload, I am going to practice with it and work up a load for it. Good luck on your hunt.

[gunslinger]

Who doesnt shoot for the shoulders, Thats the first thing you tell a rifle hunter in our pre meetings and everything, There isnt a bear killer out there that doesnt shoot the shoulders.
Actually i shoot the shoulder on every animal first , drop em. Especially with bears, no question about it.

[Pathfinder76]

Who doesnt shoot for the shoulders, Thats the first thing you tell a rifle hunter in our pre meetings and everything, There isnt a bear killer out there that doesnt shoot the shoulders.
Actually i shoot the shoulder on every animal first , drop em. Especially with bears, no question about it.

This is quite the shoulder shot. First shot drops em when you hit em there. Every time. Love it on bears.

I seriously cannot believe some of the stuff people go on about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO_-VFLokzA

Bottom line. If someone tells me to shoot a bear in both shoulders I'll tell him I'll shoot the thing in whichever shoulder allows the top of the heart and lungs to be destroyed at just about any angle at the same time.

[Pathfinder76]

Oh, and by the way SH. The heart lies nowhere near the spine.

[Pathfinder76]

Them custom rifles probably hit Bears better than those pesky Rams though.

Is that the best you can do?

[Ice Fishing Maniac]

I would say the 300WSM with 200gr Accubonds or TTSX's will do fine...as mentioned SHOT PLACEMENT. But it is a great excuse to buy a new rifle.

The new Sako Brown Bear in 338WM or 375 H&H would be a sweet new rifle for your Brown Bear Hunt.

Sako m85 Brown Bear Rifle (http://www.sako.fi/sako85models.php?brown_bear)

:)

[ram crazy]

Is that the best you can do?

Was it 8 or 9 shot with that custom rifle?

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

I watched as a polar bear, with a destroyed front shoulder, get up and run across the tops of uneven large rocks at a speed that would have caught Ben Johnson in the first 10 yds..... and I gave BJ a 5yd start!

we were absolutely amazed at how fast a big bear can run on three legs.

I was just glad we were back at the truck.

just saying

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

Why choose a gun that pushes bullets designed for a 44mag pistol and shoots them faster than what they are desinged for. Sounds like a failure waiting to happen.



there are some pretty good bullets out there for the 444, made specifically for it.

I'm thinking you knew that, and just wanted to poke with a stick? :)

these ****ing matches are always annoying.

[Tracker34]

soooo i take it nobody rates the 35 whelen as a bear calibre then? lol:)

I would agree. The 35 whelen would be a good bear round. I'm thinking a 250 gr. partition would do a fine job, however, the AA 12 with FRAG-12 ammo would be better. :)

[Pathfinder76]

Where is the shoulder again?

http://i330.photobucket.com/albums/l433/chuck_nelson/IMG_2564.jpg

[backstraps]

Geez, no one is shooting lazers here. You hit bone, upper front leg, lower shoulder, you can bet there will be a ton of collateral damage to lungs, heart etc. if you place a shot aiming for soft tissue only there is a real risk to missing the heart #1, or getting partial lung hits which are scary on deer nevermind bear. I am pretty sure everyone is aware that some sort of shoulder shot that also hits vitals is ideal! a pure vital shot on a bear would be a poor choice imho, wait is that even what everyone is arguing about? I don't know anymore. Back to the original question, if you shoot your .375 well, then thats the gun to take. If you shoot the .375 poor then take the .300.

[Traps]

LOL. This just keeps getting better and better.

[savage7mm]

LOL. This just keeps getting better and better.

lol i do that with my math teacher she hates it lol

[jim-bo]

Putting the pill where it needs to go will definitely get the job done, however I believe the main issue here is the issue of immobilizing the bear. Firstly I want to make sure that I can cleanly take the bear, and if I can take out one of or both the shoulders I would be very satisfied with that shot. I would rather take the perfect shot, but i would settle on destroying the lungs and one shoulder on a quartering shot ;)

Heck if I was a crack enough shot and wanted to overload the CNS and immobilize the bear, why not break its neck? Very small target and not a margin for error, I would be more than happy bustin up that shoulder and shredding the lungs.

But I would rather be up close and personal with my bow, the beginning of my own demise :budo:

[PoppaW]

there are some pretty good bullets out there for the 444, made specifically for it.

I'm thinking you knew that, and just wanted to poke with a stick? :)

these ****ing matches are always annoying.

The guy I was directing that comment too made a pretty harsh comment right behind it. It has been adjusted by mods and is not so rude anymore.
Yes I know the 444 has some tough bullets and I will retract my statement about how useful it is. If it's all I had I would use it. If I had a choice I would use a 375/416/404 size gun but it would have to be short and light. I would probably take the best angle shot to take out both lungs and reload as fast as I could and keep shooting. This would not be a good time to admire the first shot. Once the bear is down and skinned and back at camp it's time for some good scotch and put your feet up and relive the moment.

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

....I would probably take the best angle shot to take out both lungs and reload as fast as I could and keep shooting. This would not be a good time to admire the first shot. Once the bear is down and skinned and back at camp it's time for some good scotch and put your feet up and relive the moment.


Weigh 'em down with lead, that is my thinking if I ever go after dangerous game.... Keep shooting till I hear click, then reload and assess!

[Rockymtnx]

I came across this picture on another hunting website today and though it suited this thread.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/BEAR_SHOULDER_BULLET_PLACEMENT1.jpg

[Chet]

That's a good picky Rocky. When people refer to the "shoulder shot" i think the majority are referring to that area where the bottom of the shoulder blade meets the upper leg bone.

[Traps]

Hey Rocky, how the hell did you get a picture of a bear broadside??? Didn't you get the memo, thats not supposed to happen.

[Deer Hunter]

I came across this picture on another hunting website today and though it suited this thread.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/BEAR_SHOULDER_BULLET_PLACEMENT1.jpg

The margin for error putting the bullet that far forward in the body seems too great. Maybe try for the vitals and look for an angle that busts the far shoulder on the way out?

2" left and your chasing a brisket wounded bear that isnt going to die anytime soon.

[KBF]

LOL...I've said the same thing since the beginning. You seem to be the one having trouble understanding. I find it interesting how knowledgeable you are about shoulder shots considering you don't seem to be a fan....:)

Tell me what caused the ram at 7 seconds to fall over and go legs in the air. BTW it was a high shoulder shot.

http://www.youtube.com/user/sheephunterab?feature=mhum#p/u/4/Gl1aZA4Q40E

As for the goat shot on the video I think the fall of the cliff killed it, the bullet wizzing past him scared him and lost his footing.:)

[Pathfinder76]

The margin for error putting the bullet that far forward in the body seems too great. Maybe try for the vitals and look for an angle that busts the far shoulder on the way out?

2" left and your chasing a brisket wounded bear that isnt going to die anytime soon.

ding..........ding..............ding

[sheephunter]

ding..........ding..............ding

This from the guy that can walk out the back door, flop down on the ground in the snow and shoot a half inch group through the grass with the wind blowing without even really trying. Come on chuck, you have to be able to hit something as big as a bear's shoulder. Even I can hit it and I'm a minute of a barn door shooter on a calm day when I'm really concentrating. The shoulder is a huge freaking target with tons of room for error. If you can't hit it, you likely shouldn't be taking the shot.

[ram crazy]

This from the guy that can walk out the back door, flop down on the ground in the snow and shoot a half inch group through the grass with the wind blowing without even really trying. Come on chuck, you have to be able to hit something as big as a bear's shoulder. Even I can hit it and I'm a minute of a barn door shooter on a calm day when I'm really concentrating. The shoulder is a huge freaking target with tons of room for error. If you can't hit it, you likely shouldn't be taking the shot.

Is that what he claims!!! :sHa_sarcasticlol:

[sheephunter]

Is that what he claims!!! :sHa_sarcasticlol:

Just recalling a post of his from a while back.....I've got no reason to doubt him if he says he can.

[ram crazy]

Well he does get lots of practice shooting at things.

[Rockymtnx]

Chuck, how come all of the Brown Bear Outfitters in Alaska tell you to take the shot I have mentioned? Gunslinger even mentioned the shot he was told to go for. Just for interest sake, you should ask a bear guru like Phil Shoemaker(I think you know him). See what he say's about anchoring a Alaskan Brown Bear. I already know his response, but you should ask him yourself.

You can look up a thousand pictures of a bear online, and see if you do hit that shoulder ball joint you are probably going to get the front of the lungs too. When your dealing with a Brown Bear if your 2" off your still going to do some serious hurt to him.

One thing that I could agree to you with on taking a rib/lung shot is that it could be a good choice when shooting a little gun. If you don't have the power to penetrate and do some damage, take the lungs. It would kind of be like trying to shoulder shoot a moose with a .243. This is a prime example of where a mangum can out perform a smaller gun.

[sheephunter]

The margin for error putting the bullet that far forward in the body seems too great. Maybe try for the vitals and look for an angle that busts the far shoulder on the way out?

2" left and your chasing a brisket wounded bear that isnt going to die anytime soon.

And a little to the right and you are in the guts with a behind the leg shot. The marin of error on the shoulder is far greater than behind the leg. I know I'd rather follow up a brisket hit bear than a gut shot one. At least I know the brisket hit one is going to take off and likely be fine. The gut shot one is more likely to go a ways and then lie in wait. We aren't taking any meat home from a grizz. Bust him down quickly with the shot that stacks the odds in your favour. If you aren't 100% certain of hitting your mark on a grizz...best advice is don't take the shot. As many have attested here, the number one piece of advice from experienced grizz guides is hit the shoulder. There's a reason.

[Deer Hunter]

And a little to the right and you are in the guts with a behind the leg shot. The marin of error on the shoulder is far greater than behind the leg. I know I'd rather follow up a brisket hit bear than a gut shot one. At least I know the brisket hit one is going to take off and likely be fine. The gut shot one is more likely to go a ways and then lie in wait. We aren't taking any meat home from a grizz. Bust him down quickly with the shot that stacks the odds in your favour. If you aren't 100% certain of hitting your mark on a grizz...best advice is don't take the shot. As many have attested here, the number one piece of advice from experienced grizz guides is hit the shoulder. There's a reason.

And even further right you can hit him in the nuts. There is no end to these discussions with you so I'll continue on for a bit...

On any type of quartering away shots, the cross section of the shoudler blade becomes smaller, whereas the size of the vitals stays the roughly the same size. The vitals continually are in the same spot give or take behind the shoulder. The shoulder and leg move as the bear walks or stands different making you make the judgment on where it is.

I agree it would be nice to put any animal down on the spot. Guides of course would prefer it. But dead is dead, and I feel that a shot behind the shoulder is consistently the easiest to make and effective at killing.

[Pathfinder76]

This from the guy that can walk out the back door, flop down on the ground in the snow and shoot a half inch group through the grass with the wind blowing without even really trying. Come on chuck, you have to be able to hit something as big as a bear's shoulder. Even I can hit it and I'm a minute of a barn door shooter on a calm day when I'm really concentrating. The shoulder is a huge freaking target with tons of room for error. If you can't hit it, you likely shouldn't be taking the shot.

Can you read? Seriously.

[Pathfinder76]

Well he does get lots of practice shooting at things.

Come up with something intelligent.

[Pathfinder76]

Gunslinger even mentioned the shot he was told to go for.

And yet he appears to shoot his bear in the ass.

Like I've said. Shot angle makes recommending a double shoulder shot almost ridiculous IMO.

[Pathfinder76]

This from the guy that can walk out the back door, flop down on the ground in the snow and shoot a half inch group through the grass with the wind blowing without even really trying. Come on chuck, you have to be able to hit something as big as a bear's shoulder. Even I can hit it and I'm a minute of a barn door shooter on a calm day when I'm really concentrating. The shoulder is a huge freaking target with tons of room for error. If you can't hit it, you likely shouldn't be taking the shot.

While you have taken that completely out of context and ad libbed as best you could. Why then didn't the shooter make that shot in your weird video trailer? I'm sure you have photos of the entrance and exit wounds eh.

[209x50]

Shot angle makes recommending a double shoulder shot almost ridiculous IMO.
Ahh, there we go, your opinion. Very good Chuck, I'm sure that your opinion is important to you, but maybe not so much with the people you are arguing with. I know I'll file your opinion right where it belongs. :)

[ram crazy]

Come up with something intelligent.

Is that the best smart ***** remark you have.

[gitrdun]

Earlier, the .444 Marlin was mentioned as a good option, but it wasn't accepted as a good choice by a couple of replies. Although I haven't shot ANY bear with my .444, I certainly wouldn't discount it as I've seen the cratter that it left in a 200 yard gong with 265gr IB's. Coupled with the new FTX's bullet also in 265gr., I certainly can't see how that caliber would have any trouble breaking the front shoulders which also would be my placement choice, with a quick follow up to the vitals of course.

[3Dshooter]

And a little to the right and you are in the guts with a behind the leg shot. The marin of error on the shoulder is far greater than behind the leg. I know I'd rather follow up a brisket hit bear than a gut shot one. At least I know the brisket hit one is going to take off and likely be fine. The gut shot one is more likely to go a ways and then lie in wait. We aren't taking any meat home from a grizz. Bust him down quickly with the shot that stacks the odds in your favour. If you aren't 100% certain of hitting your mark on a grizz...best advice is don't take the shot. As many have attested here, the number one piece of advice from experienced grizz guides is hit the shoulder. There's a reason.


I have followed up a brisket hit bear and he did just what you said of a gut shot bear. Shot not long before dark at close range (shooting for the shoulder), we followed and "bumped" him at dark. Picked up the trail in the morning and caught up with him about 14 hours after the initial shot. He would dig a hole, lie in it, go 10 - 15 yards, dig another hole and lie in wait! And he did this for 2- 300 yards! It was slow going (BC coast) lots of alder and very large downed trees. We used our Surefire flash lights, mid morning, to search under logs, in holes etc. as we expected it to happen close. It did! When we had about given up, he broke to our left, moving quick at about 15 yards. Roaring and growling! A 270 grain solid through both shoulders turned him toward us, a couple quick 400's finished him at 10 yards.

The first shot was forward in the leg, missing the bone, then breaking the "brisket". There were bone fragments found in the heart and lungs. This was a dead bear with the initial shot.... eventually!

Just to add, while meat is not the prime objective, the hams and back straps come home every time!

[sheephunter]

While you have taken that completely out of context and ad libbed as best you could. Why then didn't the shooter make that shot in your weird video trailer? I'm sure you have photos of the entrance and exit wounds eh.

Chuck I apologise if I took something out of context but here's what you wrote. I see you've since deleted the photo from photobucket but if I recall correctly, the one group was around .5"?

What exactly are field conditions? I shot these hasty groups prone in the middle of a field, in the snow, with the wind blowing, and grass waiving in front of me. In that position I was even able to call the flyer. I would suspect most guys wouldn't have a clue what they can do under "field" type situations.



As for your other comment, several animals are shot and several animals are passsed up in that video. You'll have to be a bit more specific.

[sheephunter]

I have followed up a brisket hit bear and he did just what you said of a gut shot bear. Shot not long before dark at close range (shooting for the shoulder), we followed and "bumped" him at dark. Picked up the trail in the morning and caught up with him about 14 hours after the initial shot. He would dig a hole, lie in it, go 10 - 15 yards, dig another hole and lie in wait! And he did this for 2- 300 yards! It was slow going (BC coast) lots of alder and very large downed trees. We used our Surefire flash lights, mid morning, to search under logs, in holes etc. as we expected it to happen close. It did! When we had about given up, he broke to our left, moving quick at about 15 yards. Roaring and growling! A 270 grain solid through both shoulders turned him toward us, a couple quick 400's finished him at 10 yards.

The first shot was forward in the leg, missing the bone, then breaking the "brisket". There were bone fragments found in the heart and lungs. This was a dead bear with the initial shot.... eventually!

Just to add, while meat is not the prime objective, the hams and back straps come home every time!

Bad shots are bad shots. I've got no issue with folks who aim for the heart and lungs but it's not for me. I'll take one or both shoulders every time. Someone asked so I answered. Glad your method works for you.

Interesting that you've eaten several grizz. From what I've been told they are totally unpalatable. Maybe have to try a backstrap this fall if we manage to find one.

[ishootbambi]

Shots to solid bone cause some massive disruption to the central nervous system and typically end up with animals hitting the ground hard. You don't simply put a hole through the shoulder when reasonable velocity is involed, you smash and devestate bone all the way through. A follow up shot may be required (often not) but if it is, the animal is right there. You take out both shoulders and a bear is going no where. At least that's been my experience.

it would be hard to be more correct than that....but i might add a little to it. for most people, the first thing they think of when they see a naked bear is how human it looks. they are built very much like us even though they get around the forest horizontally where we do it vertically. for those that sit at their computer wondering why others like to shoot shoulders, think about this.......if someone put a bullet through you broadside entering just below the point of your shoulder, think about all the goo it would obliterate on the way. also think if the angle wasnt perfectly broadside but from a somewhat quartering angle a bullet went through you to break the off shoulder in the same way. again consider what that bullet would be thrashing along the way. the added bonus is that the animal will drop quite nicely. to aim a little behind the shoulder kills too, but they can go a long way before dying.

really, the only reason not to take that shot is that it costs a few steaks. for a color blind tracker like me thats a good trade....especially on a bear that id never eat anyway.

[3Dshooter]

Bad shots are bad shots. I've got no issue with folks who aim for the heart and lungs but it's not for me. I'll take one or both shoulders every time. Someone asked so I answered. Glad your method works for you.


Things often don't go as planned. And this can be said for any shot angle. I don't hold off for a perfect, slight quartering away shot. I'm a patient hunter but when an opportunity presents itself, regardless of angle, when I'm confident my hold is a quick killing shot, my rifle bucks. I'm talking any animal. High shoulder, quartering one way or another or double lung. As for all of us,my preference is to kill the animal quick and clean. No two situations are identical.

[Stinky Coyote]

holy crap i love it....keep it up guys, great stuff!

whats better for a chuckle than chuck doing...well.....what chuck does?

i sometimes wonder if he actually does have a sense of humor and does 'his thing' just to get the rest of us to 'do our thing'

don't fall for it guys, when it comes to firearms killing animals in north america....he's the man, his log in name should really be 'chuck norris of abo'

lol

[Pathfinder76]

Is that the best smart ***** remark you have.

I'd like to hear about the bears you've shot and your recommendation on shot placement regarding same.

[Pathfinder76]

holy crap i love it....keep it up guys, great stuff!

whats better for a chuckle than chuck doing...well.....what chuck does?

i sometimes wonder if he actually does have a sense of humor and does 'his thing' just to get the rest of us to 'do our thing'

don't fall for it guys, when it comes to firearms killing animals in north america....he's the man, his log in name should really be 'chuck norris of abo'

lol

This is too much like fun.

[ram crazy]

Well the only bear that I killed was coming straight at me, and I hit him 4" under his chin at 25yrds. The dam thing wouldn't listen to me when I was telling him to turn Broad side so I can get the right shot. Who knew that a 270win would make a bear pileup so fast with the not so perfect shot, oh and it only took one shot. :love0025:

[Pathfinder76]

Well the only bear that I killed was coming straight at me, and I hit him 4" under his chin at 25yrds. The dam thing wouldn't listen to me when I was telling him to turn Broad side so I can get the right shot. Who knew that a 270win would make a bear pileup so fast with the not so perfect shot, oh and it only took one shot. :love0025:

So you haven't a clue about the current subject, and where are you coming up with these multiple shots garbage? If you are inferring that I've taken lots of shots at bear because I've shot lots of them well then OK. If not stick it in your ear.

[Pathfinder76]

Here is a Mule Deer that I shot at 390 yds. You can see the exit wound and it missed the shoulder knuckle by literally less than an inch. That resulted in a highish double lung shot and that buck trotted nearly 300 yds before going down. I want low lung top of the heart and bone if I can get it for that very reason. Oh and I had two witnesses and it's on film.

http://i330.photobucket.com/albums/l433/chuck_nelson/P1070488.jpg

[Rackmastr]

Gotta say chuck....you keep a good pile of pics of some great animals....I like it!

[ram crazy]

Well your just shooting to high man get it a little lower!!! Did you get that sheep on video. I'd pay to see that one.

[full_throttle]

Here is a Mule Deer that I shot at 390 yds. You can see the exit wound and it missed the shoulder knuckle by literally less than an inch. That resulted in a highish double lung shot and that buck trotted nearly 300 yds before going down. I want low lung top of the heart and bone if I can get it for that very reason. Oh and I had two witnesses and it's on film.

http://i330.photobucket.com/albums/l433/chuck_nelson/P1070488.jpg

That thing still has milk on his lips. :)

[Stinky Coyote]

not to change the subject or anything but a ballistic tip would have anchored that thing on the spot

:scared0018:

[sheephunter]

not to change the subject or anything but a ballistic tip would have anchored that thing on the spot

:scared0018:

So would have a shoulder shot ;)
Weren't we talking about Brown Bears anyhow?

[sheephunter]

Here is a Mule Deer that I shot at 390 yds. You can see the exit wound and it missed the shoulder knuckle by literally less than an inch. That resulted in a highish double lung shot and that buck trotted nearly 300 yds before going down. I want low lung top of the heart and bone if I can get it for that very reason. Oh and I had two witnesses and it's on film.

]

So are you saying you missed where you were aiming? I'm not sure what your point is.

[full_throttle]

Maybe its because he shoots the other way ? Or he could blame it on the Kimber .

[Stinky Coyote]

So are you saying you missed where you were aiming?

i think so too, hit the meat at back of paddle bone but he definitely missed the mark, i think it was the holdover....if dialed up instead of 'guessed' all the time then he would have dropped right there, a ballistic tip still might have helped him out but that shot placement sure leaves something to be desired

[Pathfinder76]

i think so too, hit the meat at back of paddle bone but he definitely missed the mark, i think it was the holdover....if dialed up instead of 'guessed' all the time then he would have dropped right there, a ballistic tip still might have helped him out but that shot placement sure leaves something to be desired

Oh that's hilarious.

[Pathfinder76]

Well your just shooting to high man get it a little lower!!! Did you get that sheep on video. I'd pay to see that one.

I will bashfully admit that hitting him on the move at 430 yds was a trifle impressive.

[Pathfinder76]

So are you saying you missed where you were aiming? I'm not sure what your point is.

Reality is often found outside of fantasy. That is exactly why knitting with Jackie Bushman in a box blind while you wait for a double shoulder presentation on a doughnut eating bear is fraught with stupid and outside most of our hunting experience.

[Stinky Coyote]

the funniest part of the 'brown bear' thread is when a picture of a mule deer showed up, i'm going to try and one up that

[Pathfinder76]

the funniest part of the 'brown bear' thread is when a picture of a mule deer showed up, i'm going to try and one up that

Too late. SH already posted a sheep killing video and a close shave ahead of my picture. You can't top it so don't try.

[sheephunter]

Reality is often found outside of fantasy. That is exactly why knitting with Jackie Bushman in a box blind while you wait for a double shoulder presentation on a doughnut eating bear is fraught with stupid and outside most of our hunting experience.

LOL...patience is often a virtue.....it often involves a lot less lead flinging if you wait for the ideal shot. If it doesn't present itself then, as I've explained several times in this thread, you start playing the other angles but I'm always looking for one shoulder if two aren't there. I could have shot at that Dall ram a hundred times over the course of a couple days but by waiting for the perfect shot, I was able to put him down on the spot. It took me eight days to get into that position. Why rush and miss where you want the bullet to hit as indicated with your mule deer? I must admit though that the scarf Jackie knit me while we were waiting did keep me warm ;)

I wasn't aware baiting grizzlies was legal. For black bears on bait, time is your friend and other than in rare cases, you've got hours to wait for the perfect shot. I would say when time is on your side, waiting for a perfect shot is anything but stupid! Perhaps if you weren't so anxious to shoot you might have seen many more double shoulder opportunities! Other times you need to get things done.

[Pathfinder76]

LOL...patience is often a virtue.....it often involves a lot less lead flinging if you wait for the ideal shot. If it doesn't present itself then, as I've explained several times in this thread, you start playing the other angles but I'm always looking for one shoulder if two aren't there. I could have shot at that Dall ram a hundred times over the course of a couple days but by waiting for the perfect shot, I was able to put him down on the spot. It took me eight days to get into that position. Why rush and miss where you want the bullet to hit as indicated with your mule deer? I must admit though that the scarf Jackie knit me while we were waiting did keep me warm ;)

I wasn't aware baiting grizzlies was legal. For black bears on bait, time is your friend and other than in rare cases, you've got hours to wait for the perfect shot. I would say when time is on your side, waiting for a perfect shot is anything but stupid! Perhaps if you weren't so anxious to shoot you might have seen many more double shoulder opportunities! Other times you need to get things done.

I've never been afraid to make a perfect shot out of any angle. Maybe when I get old I'll be more patient as I sit with my knitted scarf.:)

[sheephunter]

I've never been afraid to make a perfect shot out of any angle.

Apparently that doesn't always work out so well for you...;)

[Pathfinder76]

Apparently that doesn't always work out so well for you...;)

Don't believe everything you hear from that slanderous piece of garbage. Remind him that people in glass houses should NEVER throw stones.

[sheephunter]

Don't believe everything you hear from that slanderous piece of garbage. Remind him that people in glass houses should NEVER throw stones.

Actually I was thinking more of the mule deer you just posted and didn't your elk require a few shots? I think you posted that here but please correct me if I'm wrong. I've only heard the stories of your ram but don't know if they are true or not so I would never bring it up.

I'll never claim to be a great shot so I'm content to wait for a shot that stacks the odds in my favour especially with as the OP asked about, a brown bear. :)

[LongDraw]

:party0052:

[Pathfinder76]

Actually I was thinking more of the mule deer you just posted and didn't your elk require a few shots? I think you posted that here but please correct me if I'm wrong. I've only heard the stories of your ram but don't know if they are true or not so I would never bring it up.

I'll never claim to be a great shot so I'm content to wait for a shot that stacks the odds in my favour :)

You just did bring it up.

The Elk in question took three shots to the boiler room while he went 20 yds if only because I had the ability to do it.

And yes I missed the tennis ball sized shoulder knuckle on that Mule Deer by an inch at 390 yds using a Kentucky Holdover. Taking a double lung hit as second prize.

Maybe old dead eye would like to shoot for pink slips if he thinks I can't shoot? Laughing.

[hal53]

I will bashfully admit that hitting him on the move at 430 yds was a trifle impressive.
shooting at an animal on the move at 430 yards, is a trifle questionable.....too bad you were out by 1 inch????

[sheephunter]

QUOTE=chuck;836304Maybe old dead eye would like to shoot for pink slips if he thinks I can't shoot? Laughing.[

LOL...I have absolutely no doubt you could kill paper way deader than me chuck......no sense wasting the bullets.....I conceed. :)

The Elk in question took three shots to the boiler room while he went 20 yds if only because I had the ability to do it.

Not questioning your ability to pull off the incredible shot Chuck. I've just seen elk go down so much faster with one shot, I guess perhaps 209 just waited for a shot within his ability too.

Anyhow, this thread has been entertaining but I think I'm done. As for the original question, I'd take my 375H&H and I'd be patient and wait for an opportunity to bust some bone in the shoulder or shoulders......likely at the advice of my guide :)

[Pathfinder76]

Not questioning your ability to pull off the incredible shot Chuck. I've just seen elk go down so much faster with one shot, I guess perhaps 209 just waited for a shot within his ability too.



There is absolutely nothing incredible about the shooting or a Bull Elk going 20 or 30 yds after being hit.

I do thank you though for informing me that a friend finds the need to stab me in the back out of petty jealousy or self gratification. It's a nice touch.

[Pathfinder76]

shooting at an animal on the move at 430 yards, is a trifle questionable.....too bad you were out by 1 inch????

Spare me the self righteous babble and at least get your story straight.

[Rockymtnx]

Chuck, you have been avoiding many of my comments on shot placement and outfitter recommendations on Alaskan Brown Bears.

[leo]

Maybe old dead eye would like to shoot for pink slips if he thinks I can't shoot? Laughing.:sign0161:

Chuck, a mans actions and words tend to seperate the MEN from the BOYS more so than a shooting contest. Some day when you grow up I'll explain it to you.:snapoutofit:

[hal53]

shooting at an animal on the move at 430 yards, is a trifle questionable.....too bad you were out by 1 inch????
Okay...see you edited it to 390 yards...whatever. your user name should be Ted Peck, check with sportsman cigarettes, they sponsor heroes like you.....

[Pathfinder76]

:sign0161:

Chuck, a mans actions and words tend to seperate the MEN from the BOYS more so than a shooting contest. Some day when you grow up I'll explain it to you.:snapoutofit:

I hope to be half the man you say you are someday.

[Grizzly Adams]

Thread seems to have gotten off track.:lol: I've got a dusty .338 staring at me, begging for a target. If my wife won the lottery,:lol: I'd be confident using that.

Grizz

[Traps]

Chuck no matter how good you think you are at the range you can't practice on a running deer on a regular basis at 400 yards. Skill had nothing to do with it, you got lucky and if you think you didn't your a foolish man.

[Pathfinder76]

Chuck, you have been avoiding many of my comments on shot placement and outfitter recommendations on Alaskan Brown Bears.

You are saying what they apparently say. I've never asked one to know for sure. Keep in mind an outfitter is cleaning up your mess half the time and it's easier to kill a bear on the ground than one shot in the arse. That's if things go exactly as planned.

If I told my guide that I was going to shoot my bear in the top of the heart/lungs and hit bone either going in or out can you imagine him saying "don't you dare"? I mean really.

[Pathfinder76]

Okay...see you edited it to 390 yards...whatever. your user name should be Ted Peck, check with sportsman cigarettes, they sponsor heroes like you.....

I edited nothing. Go back and read. You have confused two separate yardages and two separate animals.

[Pathfinder76]

Chuck no matter how good you think you are at the range you can't practice on a running deer on a regular basis at 400 yards. Skill had nothing to do with it, you got lucky and if you think you didn't your a foolish man.

I'm lucky allot. For some reason that makes people mad. :sHa_shakeshout:

[Jamie]

Between the pics of the Black bears and the Mule deer, I thought I would post a pic of a Brown bear.

Jamie

[Rackmastr]

Chuck no matter how good you think you are at the range you can't practice on a running deer on a regular basis at 400 yards. Skill had nothing to do with it, you got lucky and if you think you didn't your a foolish man.

The deer wasnt shot running at 400 yards.

A guy really needs to read this whole thread to realize that there are people talking about different animals, different ranges, different everything.

[hal53]

I edited nothing. Go back and read. You have confused two separate yardages and two separate animals.
whatever...edit as you please...shooting at a moving target at plus or minus 400 yards, puts you a rookie...have fun wounding stuff!!!!...You Sir are a fine piece of work for the young lads and girls that are just starting out, to read your idiotic posts about marginal shots....have fun, hope you never miss by more than an inch on a running animal ay 400 yards....!!! (little range practice will get that annoying problem out of the way)

[280Hunter]

:party0052:

I'm with LongDraw on this one :party0052:

[Pathfinder76]

whatever...edit as you please...shooting at a moving target at plus or minus 400 yards, puts you a rookie...have fun wounding stuff!!!!...You Sir are a fine piece of work for the young lads and girls that are just starting out, to read your idiotic posts about marginal shots....have fun, hope you never miss by more than an inch on a running animal ay 400 yards....!!! (little range practice will get that annoying problem out of the way)

Once again. Learn to read. I have not edited a single thing on this thread. And spare me the bleeding heart routine.

[hal53]

Once again. Learn to read. I have not edited a single thing on this thread. And spare me the bleeding heart routine.
what ever...carry on thinking that you're the gift to the hunting world....what a piece of work!!!!!... but one request... please don't happily expound on the fact how great you are at killing animals on the run at long ranges...the newbies here don't need to read that BS!!.I'm not a moderator, but for me this thread is closed....worse than the Days Of Our Lives.....see ya!!!

[Pathfinder76]

what ever...carry on thinking that you're the gift to the hunting world....what a piece of work!!!!!... but one request... please don't happily expound on the fact how great you are at killing animals on the run at long ranges...the newbies here don't need to read that BS!!.I'm not a moderator, but for me this thread is closed....worse than the Days Of Our Lives.....see ya!!!

Now Hal, who said anything was on the run? This reading gig has really got you down.

[hal53]

Now Hal, who said anything was on the run? This reading gig has really got you down.
sorry. I read "on the move" I assumed that was the animal and not you??????

[Pathfinder76]

sorry. I read "on the move" I assumed that was the animal and not you??????

Hal, moving is not necessarily running.

[hal53]

Hal, moving is not necessarily running.
yes....and slightly pregnant is not knocked up!!!!...you want to continue splitting hairs? you've lost a lot of credibility here already

[Robmcleod82]

505 Gibbs end of discussion

[Pathfinder76]

yes....and slightly pregnant is not knocked up!!!!...you want to continue splitting hairs? you've lost a lot of credibility here already

Hal, Hal, facts are facts. Are you accusing me of lying?

[hal53]

Hal, Hal, facts are facts. Are you accusing me of lying?
right on!!!!!! post #3100 was to me...!!!!! see yah!!!! (glad I didn't have to read the other 3,099)

[BrownBear416]

Hard to debate a topic with so much mud throwing and personal attacks going on...

Thread Closed..