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TreeGuy
11-20-2007, 07:28 PM
My buddy took a shot at a nice mulie 3x3 from his tree stand this evening from about 6 yards and missed cleanly. ":huh:" , you say. The deer was almost perfectly beneath his stand. The shot (about 20' vertical to impact) was made at about as close to a 90 degree angle as they come. Where would you aim? Thanks!

Tree

LongDraw
11-20-2007, 07:33 PM
If the shot was 6 yards- line of sight out of a treestand he probably shot UNDER the deer. If he had a 40 yard pin that is what he should have used. I remember going in a 3-d shoot and they had a gopher target 5 yards out of a stand and most missed it.:lol:

Reading your description of the shot the deer was directly under the stand, so maybe a 2 yard shot from the base of the tree to the deer?

BTW- This changes quickly- at 7-8 yards is where you would want to use your 20 yard pin, out to 20 yards. This has to do with the distance between your sight and the arrow.

catnthehat
11-20-2007, 07:35 PM
My buddy took a shot at a nice mulie 3x3 from his tree stand this evening from about 6 yards and missed cleanly. ":huh:" , you say. The deer was almost perfectly beneath his stand. The shot (about 20' vertical to impact) was made at about as close to a 90 degree angle as they come. Where would you aim? Thanks!

Tree
I wouldn't, i'd try to wait till the deer gave me a bit more of an angle by moving out a tad more..
Cat

BigRackLover
11-20-2007, 07:46 PM
I would have put my 20/25 yard pin right on the spine. I missed the exact same shot last year.

wookie
11-20-2007, 07:48 PM
6 yards out from a 20 foot high stand is not darn near vertical. 6 yards is 18 feet. Getting near a 45 degree angle. Anyways, I would guess that he shot under the deer.

For a six yard horizontal measurement shot, not line of sight, I would aim for about 35 yards, but would visualize the exit point and aim accordingly as even a 45 degree shot is quite steep and I would not like to clip the near side lung and go under the far side lung.

It happens.

TreeGuy
11-20-2007, 07:52 PM
The deer was 1 yard from the trunk of the tree. The stand is about 25' up.

Tree

Bushmaster
11-20-2007, 07:55 PM
Poor shot choice.

mikey11
11-20-2007, 07:56 PM
I've missed a shot like that before.
but a friend of mine dropped a moose directly under his stand
he said he was aiming for the spine!!
the bull ran 20 yards then expired

LongDraw
11-20-2007, 07:56 PM
Tree,

Shoot a deer 3-d target from one yard away, you could use any pin and still hit the center of the vitals.

I have missed similar gimme' shots- it happens, if you bowhunt its not if, it's when!

LongDraw
11-20-2007, 07:59 PM
Poor shot choice.

Why do you say this??

I would prefer a nice 10 yard shot over this, but if you have a relaxed deer one yard from your tree, and your foot is not in the path of the arrow I would shoot!

mikey11
11-20-2007, 08:07 PM
Exactly LongDraw
Even when the moon and stars align you need the luck for
and animal to walk close enough for a clean shot!!!

700TI
11-20-2007, 08:07 PM
I will go against everyone else's choice and I would aim low, about 6 inches.

russ
11-20-2007, 08:12 PM
Depends on the parallax of the bow (distance from mid peep to mid arrow). Most people for this shot it's somewhere around 35-40 yd pin for 5 yds. A target 2 yds away with my target set up would require a 90 yd. pin.

BigRackLover
11-20-2007, 08:14 PM
Lets not forget that everyone's bow/arrows could be set up / tuned differently. The best idea is to practice the situation with the same gear / arrows / bow you'd be using while hunting.

LongDraw
11-20-2007, 08:15 PM
I will go against everyone else's choice and I would aim low, about 6 inches.

You would shoot 6" under the deer.

TreeGuy
11-20-2007, 08:24 PM
700, my gut goes with your opinion, but now I'm confused.

Depends on the parallax of the bow (distance from mid peep to mid arrow). Most people for this shot it's somewhere around 35-40 yd pin for 5 yds. A target 2 yds away with my target set up would require a 90 yd. pin.

Russ, can you dumb that down a bit? I would have thought that with a purely horizontal shot, the arrow would be launched on an 'upward' trajectory upon release, just like a bullet. Therefore, I would instinctually shoot with my 20 yard pin (my buddy uses a cross hairs sight set for 25 yards) about a foot 'below' my intended point of impact.

You guys are saying that using anywhere from your 40-90 yard pin is the best choice. :huh:

Admittedly, we are new to the tree stand thing, and installed them on a whim during the season and have never practiced that shot. Totally our fault. Can you explain WHY you need the longer range pins a bit better?:wave:

Tree

Stinky Coyote
11-20-2007, 08:33 PM
I shot my whitetail buck that way last year...only about 15' feet to bottom of my stand and he was maybe 3 yrds from tree i was in...2 yrd shot? I held low about 2-3"...surprisingly they are as wide as they are deep when your right above them so when i held low i meant i held my 20 yrd pin about 2-3" more to the inside edge of him to hit where i want and i watched that arrow dissappear right where i visualized it would. It exited under his armpit on the other side and entrance was about 4" this side of spine. He did a 90-100 yrd runner before piling up. I felt great about the shot. Arrow was sticking 6" into ground and i was still sitting while i shot...the bow string was down in between my legs with elbow to the sky on that one.

20 yrd pin, aim about 2-3" low on that shot.

I gots lotsa pics but none on my online account except this one but have lots of the entrance/exit...this is only one i can show for now and pretty sure my online is full up so if must do then i could post pics but if no one calls me out i won't go through the hassle.;)

Exit is under the armpit of the side showing on that pic fyi.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/824048/5733955/195988333.jpg

russ
11-20-2007, 08:36 PM
Well Tree, my peep is 4.5" above my arrow @ full draw. So if I use my 20 yd pin on a 2 yd target, I'm going to be about 4" low, if not more. So there's a good probability that i will miss the deer clean. The arrow must rise and drop through the line of sight 2x on a 20 yd shot. @ 2 yds it's not even close to the first crossing.

And to really get the argument / err sorry lively discussion going, your arrow is falling the moment it leaves the bow. The only reason it goes up to begin with is because I was pointing the arrow up on launch to begin with. (exterior ballistics is so much fun ;))

russ
11-20-2007, 08:44 PM
The x's represent the path of the arrow in flight & I'm guessing the 1st crossing of LOS is @ 8 yds. The arrow (projectile) will always cross LOS 2x EXCEPT when the target is extremely close. Then, the LOS & point of impact will need to be the same in order to hit where you're aiming.
..............................................x
.................................x................ ......x
...............8yds......x........................ ...........x............20 yds
>>>>-----------X----line of sight-------------------X------------->
..........x....................................... ..................................x

700TI
11-20-2007, 08:53 PM
I will go against everyone else's choice and I would aim low, about 6 inches.

I will try to explain;
When you sight in you are at level. So gravity has a large effect on your arrow. When you shoot almost straight down, gravity has very little effect on your arrow. (no arc) so your point of impact will be higher then on the level.

Stinky Coyote
11-20-2007, 08:55 PM
Way back when i started researching all this archery stuff that rule of thumb stuck in my head...5 yrs later i used it and by golly she worked out like it was supposed too. I say you get yourself in a tree (your buddy too;) ) and giver a whirl...can't build the confidence any better than actually doing it. Then again i might just go on instinct for half the deer i shoot? Its a quicky rule of thumb for the real close shots...not picking specific yardages or angles etc. but i like things simple so they are easy to remember and from what i remember thats the rule i stuck in the memory bank and chucked the rest...good thing too imo. I can see some pics are going to have to be uploaded for further analysis.:innocent:

p.s. the only thing i care about regarding these 'rules of thumb' is hunting so the rules of thumb i keep don't get too scientific down to the exact angle/yard etc....as long as it gets the deer on the ground type of 'rule of thumb' and that one is close enough to do it for those close shots...but....maybe i'm cold trippin too?

LongDraw
11-20-2007, 08:59 PM
Good explanation Russ,

Although at these distances (0-7 yards) you will still pin the vitals using any pin (20 through 60) on a deer sized vitals, approx 8" circle.

russ
11-20-2007, 09:01 PM
I will try to explain;
When you sight in you are at level. So gravity has a large effect on your arrow. When you shoot almost straight down, gravity has very little effect on your arrow. (no arc) so your point of impact will be higher then on the level.

I think your point actually applies on all uphill and downhill shots. The only reason I picked 2 yds is because I have data for it and I've used it successfully.

LongDraw
11-20-2007, 09:03 PM
I will try to explain;
When you sight in you are at level. So gravity has a large effect on your arrow. When you shoot almost straight down, gravity has very little effect on your arrow. (no arc) so your point of impact will be higher then on the level.

You are correct, however your peep and sight are above the arrow, this is why you would have to raise your bow and use your 40 yard pin to compensate for this.

bowhuntercam
11-20-2007, 09:06 PM
IMO that is poor shot selection. The site on a bow sits 4-6 inches above your arrow, at that close distance your arrow has not risen above your site pin or site line.

Stinky Coyote
11-20-2007, 09:07 PM
Something in my gut tells me if i use 60 yrd pin on my shot i'd have lost my deer or completely missed but more likely gave him a haircut on the far side? Honest...i held my 20 'low' about 2-3" max and the arrow went where i wanted it too...i mean exactly where i wanted it too...that line through the vitals i was envisioning....heard too many that use their 20 as point of aim and try and hit where i hit but end up spining them...thats why the 2-3" low rule for those shots. Its out there somewhere...i know my memory isn't that bad...i think?:confused:

We'll get to the bottom of this soon Tree...;) :D

Stinky Coyote
11-20-2007, 09:15 PM
You are correct, however your peep and sight are above the arrow, this is why you would have to raise your bow and use your 40 yard pin to compensate for this.

Yall have me thinking...i know when i've got a gopher at 5-10 yrds with the .22 zero'd around 35 yrds...i gotta hold high..bout an 1" high at 5 yrds and 1/2" at 10 yrds...sounds like same thing?

Dunno why that rule of thumb is stuck in my head though and why it worked? I should have shot way way under my deer by that reasoning?

Something to do with arrow rises that couple inches on the way to 20 yrds.....at 20 yrds its already on the downslope.....so our first pin (20 yrd for most guys) isn't actually the high point of the arrow...somewhere in between.....but for the most part...for hunting situations...that rule of thumb seemed to be the only thing that stayed with me for those close shots?

russ
11-20-2007, 09:25 PM
Yall have me thinking...i know when i've got a gopher at 5-10 yrds with the .22 zero'd around 35 yrds...i gotta hold high..bout an 1" high at 5 yrds and 1/2" at 10 yrds...sounds like same thing?


That's because it is the same thing. :)

Stinky Coyote
11-20-2007, 09:25 PM
okay, csi these pics for me...


the pic of the treestand shows the bow on the ground..hopefully it will show up but the blood and arrow are just up and left of the bow...if you draw a straight line between the two trees the arrow/blood is essentially right on that line and just about dead in the middle of it too...

deer walked in from left side of the treestand pic, between toe of left foot and the near tree and stopped when heard my motion from the draw (as planned...otherwise a 'waah' was just about to happen)

not sure why i took all those csi pics...to email buddies mostly but guess they can come in handy here...

oh yeah...the paint mixing stick in the hole?...its actually in the exit hole also...showing the exact angle...sorry...was a couple beers on empty stomach and muckin around

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/824048/17448107/289441502.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/824048/17448107/289441507.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/824048/17448107/289441514.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/824048/17448107/289441505.jpg

Stinky Coyote
11-20-2007, 09:28 PM
have to catch up on this one tomorrow...nighty nighty

:D

but before i got...i pretty much held 20 yrd on inside edge of fur...well not quite because the angle of that pic could only show the angle i saw if it was inline with the paint mixer..that arrow hit a good 2-3" higher than i aimed the 20...as i thought it should?:confused:

LongDraw
11-20-2007, 09:33 PM
Stinky,

At the distance you shot your buck I don't think it would have mattered what pin you used. Next time you shoot your bow stand 3 yards from the target and try it- or just hold your bow hand out like you are at full draw and point at a spot on a wall 8' away with your finger. Move your bow hand up and down 1" each way, you will still definately be within the vitals of a deer.

russ
11-20-2007, 09:34 PM
have to catch up on this one tomorrow...nighty nighty

:D

but before i got...i pretty much held 20 yrd on inside edge of fur...well not quite because the angle of that pic could only show the angle i saw if it was inline with the paint mixer..that arrow hit a good 2-3" higher than i aimed the 20...as i thought it should?:confused:

Hey it worked and who am I to argue with success. As was pointed out before every set up is different. A bow is a very individual weapon, what works for me may not work for you. Lots of variables, such as comfortable peep height, hand position (torque), anchor point etc. You can't just pick up a bow and expect it to hit the same for any two people. It's not like a gun.

TreeGuy
11-20-2007, 09:50 PM
Great info guys. Here's another question though. Do you think that in this situation, an 'instinctual' shot would be appropriate? Meaning lining your eye up, down the shaft of the drawn arrow. Could be a form-buster, but.....

Tree

LongDraw
11-20-2007, 09:54 PM
Great info guys. Here's another question though. Do you think that in this situation, an 'instinctual' shot would be appropriate? Meaning lining your eye up, down the shaft of the drawn arrow. Could be a form-buster, but.....

Tree


Not a good idea, especially if you shoot a peep. Your left and right would be messed up.

russ
11-21-2007, 03:58 AM
At the angle that shot was taken I don't think it would necessarily be in the vitals. The center of the kill shrinks (perspectively) and move up as it gets higher and the angle increases. I've seen people take 5's on 3 yard shots with a McKenzie deer (hit high on the ground). I think short range shots need to be practiced.

Stinky Coyote
11-21-2007, 06:34 AM
Thinking about it last night the i remember the rule being 2" not 3"...maybe 1.5-2" but i remember the 2" part and my angle doesn't sound as steep as the miss we're discussing...straight down?....i dunno what i'd do on that one...probably wait until it got a few yards out....or look down the shaft and shoot instinctual so to speak? Interesting though...gives thought for some other practice shots to try out...i generally don't consider the 1-2 yrd shots lol. Good luck Tree...do try some things out though...take a practice shot or two while in treestand and just leave the arrows there until hunt is over...used to keep one with a judo on it just for taking one from the treestand when i first got in it.

Bushmaster
11-21-2007, 06:52 AM
LongDraw, I say its a poor choice just because its a shot no one practices....the ammount of discussion and varying opinions on this thread help to back up my thought. If you feel well practiced and confident in this shot, by all means....

700TI
11-21-2007, 07:04 AM
Next time you are all in a treestand take this shot and see what the results are. All these explanations make sense on paper, but in practice you might be surprized. I would like to know the results.

catnthehat
11-21-2007, 07:16 AM
Great info guys. Here's another question though. Do you think that in this situation, an 'instinctual' shot would be appropriate? Meaning lining your eye up, down the shaft of the drawn arrow. Could be a form-buster, but.....

Tree
I shoot a stick bow instictively ( and shoot it well), and i still would have waited a bit I think, but then I wasn't in the tree.
Reeal life situations can be different, by the angle it doesn't look like the shot was completely vertical however.
cat

BigRackLover
11-21-2007, 07:30 AM
The x's represent the path of the arrow in flight & I'm guessing the 1st crossing of LOS is @ 8 yds. The arrow (projectile) will always cross LOS 2x EXCEPT when the target is extremely close. Then, the LOS & point of impact will need to be the same in order to hit where you're aiming.
..............................................x
.................................x................ ......x
...............8yds......x........................ ...........x............20 yds
>>>>-----------X----line of sight-------------------X------------->
..........x....................................... ..................................x

The above is correct but as I mentioned before its depends on your bow/arrow setup. My arrows 'peak' @ 20 yards on my 25 yard pin because that's how I have it setup, mening my second crossing of LOS is at 25 yards. I have tried 5, 10 15, 20, 25 + yard shots and I confident in knowing where my arrows goes. However, I never thought about the shot less than the first crossing of the line of sight ... I will have to try those out, but I aggree with what has been said earlier with the peep sight being 4 " higher than the arrow therefore aiming 4" high will work.

Shooting an animal from a treestand ... the same principles apply but you can only take into account the horizantal distance to the target, hence aiming high when the target is within the 1st crossing of the LOS. Usually when I range my distance from a treestand (while sitting in it) ... I usually take the distance ranged and substract 2 yards. This works well for treestands that are 20 ft high and have shooting lanes out to 30 yards and shots that are longer than the 1st crossing of LOS.

Another method I use is to aim where you want the arrow exit wound, this makes you aim a little low and matches the actual horizantal distance. This method works well during the moment of truth when you don't have any time to think.

Both method I describes allows me to stay confident and hit the vitals, I don't care about hitting bottle cap size targets while hunting.

I had to take this shot (2 or 3 yards for base of tree) last year while sitting in my 20ft treestand. The deer was quartering away and I used my 20 yard ping and put the ping right on his vitals behind the shoulder, I cleanly missed and shot underneath him. I hadn't practice shots under 5 yards ... live and learn.

700 - I suspect that your bow is setup differently and perhaps not tuned correctly. Have you done a paper test on it?

LongDraw
11-21-2007, 07:34 AM
This is all great stuff for bowhunters to discuss; most guys don't practice extreme uphill and downhill shots either. Sheep hunting, or mule deer hunting in the coulee country can mess guys up more than a treestand shot.

Stinky Coyote
11-21-2007, 07:54 AM
Yeah, this is interesting...i didn't hold alot off on that deer..its hard not 'use a pin' but i do remember going that 1.5-2" low and worked out. When i first got into the archery thing one of the first places i found to learn were the eders.com forums...lots of technical guru's there and i came away with that rule of thumb over 5 yrs ago now. Looking at this discussion and now questioning it...even after making it work? wtf? :lol:

Now gotta find out what the heck i read...and it would have been alot of reading before i took it for gospel but.... i'm curious as heck now?

Tree...take a practice arrow, pick a leaf or spot in the ground next time in stand...put your 20 yrd pin on it and shoot. This will tell you right away where it 'actually' hits for your set up....your friends set-up also. Maybe friend just had a touch of the fever?:innocent:

Hoochie Papa
11-21-2007, 08:01 AM
Your form has a huge impact on downhill shots. When you sight in your bow on level ground, your body is about 90 degrees with the arrow.
When you shoot downhill, you need to remember to bend at the waist to maintain the angle with your bow.
If you just lower the bow to aim, you will miss more times than not.

Stinky Coyote
11-21-2007, 08:10 AM
Oh yeah! What he said...seems easy to forget to mention but thats a doozie point...the form has to be there...otherwise it doesn't matter what type of shot...your gonna miss your mark. Shoot enough though and generally you don't have to think too much about it as your body just does what it needs to do while you figure out what pin to use and where to put it on the critter....at least how it works for me.:)

700TI
11-21-2007, 08:20 AM
Big Rack, I have been out of archery for a 3-4 years now. But when I was shooting regularly in competitions this was my experience. Sitting in a simulated tree, 8' up and shooting at a 2-3 yard target the size of a loonie, I would have to shoot 2" low. This is only my experience and bow set-ups are different for all.

Stinky Coyote
11-21-2007, 08:22 AM
Omg...thankyou 700TI!:lol:

Whew...i'm officially not alone and feeling like i'm off my rocker.:D

Coldhill
11-21-2007, 09:52 AM
It is very important to make sure your upperbody is all in line.

When you draw make sure you draw level, then make the adjustments as needed. Bend at the waist once you are set and anchored. Otherwise, your form will be off and it is the same as dropping your arm at release.
If this is done, regular yardage can be used.
But in the future, make sure you shoot sooner, or later, at least out to 15 yards from you. This will ensure you get double lung, rather than one or just liver.

CH

TreeGuy
11-21-2007, 07:36 PM
Holy Moly! What a ton to think about.

Longdraw: 5 yards, any pin, 8" vitals.....I like it.

Russ: What you said about your peep to pin line on a 20 yard pin being 4.5" above the arrow made the most sense to me also.

Within a few feet, a shot like that would mean a 4.5" hit inside of where you are aiming....correct? Ergo, using the 40 yard pins to compensate. For the first time EVER trigonometry is interesting!:evilgrin:

I will take all of this into consideration, and then do what Stinky and 700 said and let one fly out of the stand next time I'm up.

Personally, I have spent more hours in a delivery room than a tree stand. I REALLY don't like to mix work with play! :ashamed:

Tree

700TI
11-21-2007, 07:52 PM
Hey T.G. are you going out with your bow again this year? I sure would like to know the outcome of your test shot.

russ
11-21-2007, 07:56 PM
Russ: What you said about your peep to pin line on a 20 yard pin being 4.5" above the arrow made the most sense to me also.



That's the idea, now there's at least one guy that's probably been following this thread that would tell us to just go out and shoot & have fun. ;)

nekred
11-22-2007, 08:40 AM
My .02c

With that shot (efectively a 1 yard shot from base of tree)

I would have to dial for 70 yards to hit the vitals....

if your bow is hitting 2" hiigher then your 20 yard pin you are set waaaaaaay nock low or tip high.... either way bow is way out of tune....

Russ is 100% correct....

On that type of shot I look down the arrow from the side to get the angle then us string/peep for left/right.

the target is effectively on 3.5 horizontal arrow lengths away.... if you hit high with 20 your arrow would have to be almost hitting your sight!...

I practice this shot all the time.... 1 yard, 2 yards, 3 yards etc....

8 yards = 20 pin 5yards = 30 pin 3 yards = 40 pin 2 yards = 50 pin 1 yard = 70 pin

14 yards is usually where arrow tops out at..... When i used to shoot 280 fps you could set your bow so 10 and 20 were the same....

Now that I shoot 315 for 3D bow is set a bit different.....

It is simple laws of physics if you set bow up so that you have to hold low at the short distance.... your sights will be way out of whack or bow is way out of whack....

Or you may have magic arrows....

700TI
11-22-2007, 09:15 AM
I fully understand what everyone is saying. And i don't doubt that it works for you. I know what worked for me. And, I do know how to set up a bow.
It is a 1 yard shot, but the arrow travels much more then 1 yard on it's upward line as there is no significant drop in an almost vertical shot. Therefore if you were to shoot from 100 yards straight down (line of sight) the arrow would end up several yards high by the time it reached 100yds. Even though it would still be a 1 yd shot.

nekred
11-22-2007, 09:55 AM
That is all corrected for in the 1 yard of horizontal travel where gravity acts adjacent to the horizontal....

Arrow would still hit low!...

I practice this... I understand where you are coming from... but gravity still pulls arrow down... Straight down!... in line with shot!...

And because gravity acts over time to add its effect to arrow.... (time of flight is longer because of extra distance travelled)

Cancels out what you are thinking....where arrow would continue upward through sight...

I have a 30 yard horizontal 45 degree downhill shot that really is 42 yards I still use 30 pin even though there is extra travel because gravity still pulls adjacent to horizontal help's pull my arrow where my 30 pin is.... The arc on my arrow is not as noticable because it is strtched out when shooting downhill

Works exact same with a 1 yard shot arrow is still flying gravity has effect... effect on horizontal is less but time of flight is longer than a 1 yard horizontal shot.... It all evens out because gravity is a constant!.... through all scenarios... acts with a constant force in a constant direction...

I have set a 3D target with a 80 yard downhill shot that is actually 8 yards out.... What pin would you use?... your 8 yard pin.... why did not the arrow continue on an above line of sight.... same angle as shot originally described... because gravity still works!.....

Your scenario would be true if there was no gravity!.... Shooting vertical does not negate gravity... there is still the same net drop... it is just added into flight of arrow... (vectors become synchronized)

I hope you come to one of our 3D shoots and you will see how it works on a short distance downhill shot!... when you hit low....if your bow is tuned!...

If what you say works for you then good luck!....

700TI
11-22-2007, 10:54 AM
I totally agree with you



well sort of



It doesn't work for me. I would aim low and I wouldn't need luck, just a steady hand.

TreeGuy
11-22-2007, 06:31 PM
Hey T.G. are you going out with your bow again this year? I sure would like to know the outcome of your test shot.

Yep! 5am tomorrow (Friday). Stinky and 700, what you said about the practice shots are probably the most 'ideal' solution. I'll try the shot from my stand and take some pics and report!

In an 'all things being equal' environment, I'd think this.....

IF, and a big IF at that, the LOS between your pupil through the peep to the pin, is PERFECTLY horizontal to the line your arrow is on, and you are shooting PERFECTLY 90 degrees down, no matter what the distance the arrow travels (20' or 10,000') the arrow will ALWAYS impact low of LOS by the same distance it started off on. Now I'm confused.....:D

My point is, that that is a situation that is an impossibility. Even a half of a degree off of 90 will bring gravity into the equation. I won't even mention wind.....

I'll try the shot, but at best, it'll be about 2 yards from my stand with 10 yards of travel (high stand). Before I hit my release, I will look down the shaft just to see, and then try to 'visualize' impact. Anyone else use a 'kisser'? I do and find it really helpful in maintaining a consitant form.

Tree

BigRackLover
11-22-2007, 07:49 PM
i kiss

TreeGuy
11-22-2007, 07:58 PM
But TOLD!:evilgrin:

Tree

gube
11-22-2007, 08:05 PM
Nekred pretty much nailed it. I've used the method he explains since the 80's and it works every time. At one yard away I have used either a 60 or 70 yard pin (has changed slightly depending on which bow I use). The most important factor is to remember to keep your bow 90 deg to your body and BEND AT THE WAIST.

TreeGuy
11-23-2007, 04:01 PM
Wellllll, here's my report. Sorry no pics, our son was in a play today and based upon my stunning archery sucess thus far (1 mulie doe and a coyote in 3 seasons), camera went with wifey.:innocent:

Anyway, I tried the shot. I tried to make it as vertical as possible without having to 'test' my harness.:lol: Point of impact was about 3" inside of my aim point. My LOS is about 4" above my arrow so it was consistant with Russ's and Longdraw's statements. Any variation however is more than likely due to the natural line of the arrow NOT being perfectly horizontal to the LOS. Thus the different results from different shooter. Makes sense to me.

Had a day out of the twilight zone. I've never had a clean draw on a buck before. Had 6 today. One miss at 52 yards on a WT 3X3, and.....it's a long story and maybe I'll save it for a new thread, but what a day! Thanks guys.

Tree

700TI
11-23-2007, 04:08 PM
Thanks for the report TG. Now you know where to shoot.



Except at 52 yard whitetails

Stinky Coyote
11-24-2007, 09:16 AM
Good thread, i learned something, i didn't really consider how to hold for the ones basically straight down...i think my rule of thumb for that was to just look down the arrow instead of try to pin it....but i'm gonna stick to the hold a bit low rule for those more middle shots between a few yards out towards the 15 yrd mark....but i'm going to try a few from straight down next opportunity i get to know forsure too. Next up Tree...try one somewhere in the 5-15 yrd range and see where you have to hold, pretty sure thats where the 2" low comes into play.

Cordur
11-24-2007, 02:28 PM
LOL! This is a great thread. I'm going to have to explain this one to my buddy who I've witnessed missing 4 deer now. Some people are just better off with a rifle to be honest.

I think some people miss the extremely easy shots because they get so excited. I shot clean over the top of a deer when I thought it was a gimme. Makes a big difference if you've just grabbed your buddies bow and can't find the trigger release and decide it can't be that much different than a finger release :o

I think when I pick up a new bow this spring I'm going to go to a few 3-D shoots.

nekred
11-26-2007, 08:08 AM
I think when I pick up a new bow this spring I'm going to go to a few 3-D shoots.

Words of an intelligent bowhunter!.....Hope to see you there!