40mm or 50mm scope

[FallAirFever]

Hi all,

Looking for opinions on a new scope for my 7mm RemMag. I am slowly narrowing down my search. In the past I have been a 3-9x40 guy but looked through a couple 50mm scopes today and now I migt widen my search to include these as well.
What are your thoughts on 40 v 50 for an all around scope. Mostly hunt the bush country, cut blocks/lines etc. How do you find them for extra field of view and letting light in?

Thanks for your help!

[sheephunter]

Objective lens size has no bearing on field of view and on a 3-9 scope you aren't likely to see any extra light to your eyes. Where the big objective lens scopes shine is at higher magnifications. Divide the magnification in to the objective lens size and if the number comes out to more than 5, it's typically a waste.

[222rem]

I like 40mm scope because it is mounted closer to the center of the bore and looks less bulky .

[FallAirFever]

So Sheep would you suggest that if going with a 3-9 and not planning on a big zoom / longer range style scope to just stick with a 40mm.

Of course I am concerned about cheekweld, needing higher rings and stock fit. Another reason why I have never bothered to look at one before.

[sheephunter]

So Sheep would you suggest that if going with a 3-9 and not planning on a big zoom / longer range style scope to just stick with a 40mm.

.

Absolutely something in that 40-44mm range

[elkhunter11]

A 40-44mm objective lens on a quality scope is very adequate on a big game rifle. Where people get the idea that a larger objective lens results in a larger field of view, I have no idea, but it appears to be a common misperception.

[hardy]

Stick with a 40mm you get lower scope mount and overall sleeker profile which was already mentioned. I wish nightforce made a 40mm my 50mm is a huge piece of glass.

[FallAirFever]

A 40-44mm objective lens on a quality scope is very adequate on a big game rifle. Where people get the idea that a larger objective lens results in a larger field of view, I have no idea, but it appears to be a common misperception.

Thanks Guys!

The Field of view thing was told to me by the gun behind the gun counter at a store in Calgary.

At one in GP I had the guy behind the counter hand my a Rifleman muzzle loader scope saying "its a VXI, look at how skinny the ring is" and then "here's a Nikon see what you think, also for a muzzle loader an Omega" and the only scope he knew anything about was bushnells.

My advise is know what you want before you go looking.

[bwcweld]

I like 40mm scope because it is mounted closer to the center of the bore and looks less bulky .

x2 way more sleek and low profile for everything

[Cowboybob]

I took a little trip into the world of big lensed scopes with a Leupold VX3L 3.5-10 x50 (got a buy I couldn't refuse). Gorgeous scope, great optics. Will I buy another one - not unless I get a huge deal like the last one. Amongst other things, those big objective bells on normal length scopes mean either real sharp objective bell angles or shorter tubes. With the VX3L I ended up needing extension rings to mount it on a long action - didn't see that one coming. I'll go back to my normal 3.5-10x40's and 2.5-8x36s in VX3s or 3-9x40 VXIIs.

Like Sheephunter, I'm a little confused as to where the notion of bigger lenses giving bigger fields of view came from. A quick check of the Leupold site will show the field of view for 3-9X40 and 3-9x50 are the same. The latter might serve you a little better if you take up night hunting but I'm pretty sure the local wardens wouldn't appreciate your efforts.

[sheephunter]

I took a little trip into the world of big lensed scopes with a Leupold VX3L 3.5-10 x50 (got a buy I couldn't refuse). Gorgeous scope, great optics. Will I buy another one - not unless I get a huge deal like the last one. Amongst other things, those big objective bells on normal length scopes mean either real sharp objective bell angles or shorter tubes. With the VX3L I ended up needing extension rings to mount it on a long action - didn't see that one coming. I'll go back to my normal 3.5-10x40's and 2.5-8x36s in VX3s or 3-9x40 VXIIs.

Like Sheephunter, I'm a little confused as to where the notion of bigger lenses giving bigger fields of view came from. A quick check of the Leupold site will show the field of view for 3-9X40 and 3-9x50 are the same. The latter might serve you a little better if you take up night hunting but I'm pretty sure the local wardens wouldn't appreciate your efforts.

Ya, there are a lot of weird misconceptions about optics out there. Truthfully, even the big objective means little or nothing in lower powered scopes as far as light goes. It all comes down to the exit pupil and what the human eye can utilize. Most people don't believe it but a 3 power scope with a 15mm objective would offer basically the same amount of usuable light to a middle-aged shooter as a 3 power scope with a 50mm objective, all other things being equal of course.

[catnthehat]

Like Sheephunter, I'm a little confused as to where the notion of bigger lenses giving bigger fields of view came from. A quick check of the Leupold site will show the field of view for 3-9X40 and 3-9x50 are the same. The latter might serve you a little better if you take up night hunting but I'm pretty sure the local wardens wouldn't appreciate your efforts.

partly advertising, partly people listening to friends who have listened to the advertising!:sHa_sarcasticlol:
Cat

[ishootbambi]

Objective lens size has no bearing on field of view and on a 3-9 scope you aren't likely to see any extra light to your eyes. Where the big objective lens scopes shine is at higher magnifications. Divide the magnification in to the objective lens size and if the number comes out to more than 5, it's typically a waste.

i thought you said 7 was best.....:sEm_oops2:

im ribbing you....dont get worked up. :)

[sheephunter]

i thought you said 7 was best.....:sEm_oops2:

im ribbing you....dont get worked up. :)

I'm talking about us middle-aged guys Dale.....not 18 year old, blue-eyed German snipers ;)

I've never said 7mm was best, only that it was the maximum that could be utilized by the human eye...the young human eye. As we get older and fatter our pupil loses its ability to dialate as large.

[hardy]

According to the author of Precision Shooting at 1000 yards, a young persons eye say 20years old may dialate to 7mm at night and are usually around 4mm in the mid afternoon. An older persons eye say above 50 may only open to 5mm this is why anything above 5 is useless according to sheep.

The thing with larger objectives is they can give you 5mm of exit pupil at a higher magnification.Although the advantage is usually only by a small margin like say the difference between 9 or 10 power.

[hardy]

I guess sheep is faster on the key board than I haha.

I'm talking about us middle-aged guys Dale.....not 18 year old, blue-eyed German snipers ;)

I've never said 7mm was best, only that it was the maximum that could be utilized by the human eye...the young human eye. As we get older and fatter our pupil loses its ability to dialate as large.

[Rayzor]

A good quality 40 mm scope will give you adequate light transmission down to last legal shooting light. The extra 10mm of objective lens may allow you to see longer past legal shooting light, but if you are not interested in "stretching" the law beyond reasonable, the 50 mm just adds bulk and price. If you're going to spend xtra cash spend it on a 30mm tube.

[sheephunter]

A good quality 40 mm scope will give you adequate light transmission down to last legal shooting light. The extra 10mm of objective lens may allow you to see longer past legal shooting light, but if you are not interested in "stretching" the law beyond reasonable, the 50 mm just adds bulk and price. If you're going to spend xtra cash spend it on a 30mm tube.

30mm tubes do offer some advantages but often not ones realized in an average hunting scope. 1" tubes are often a far better option.

Saying a certain objective lens size will give you adequate light transmission is dependant on many things, with magnification being the most critical. You can't talk one without the other.

[couleefolk]

i would suggest dishing out for a good lense. my wifes leupold lps gathers way more light than some scopes with 50mm lenses. i love my black diamond with a 50mm lense, and my older friends enjoy being able to see the target sharper with it. another plus is long eye relief for a hunting rifle. if you are thinking 40mm, i recently picked up a burris fulfield 2 3-9x40 new for $120, and it seems pretty clear for the price, and it is low profile and doesn't weigh a lot if you are packing it through dense bush. Best is to find something you like, and not what the salesman necessarily is pushing. so many options and situations, scope shopping can be a challenge, what type of crosshairs, bullet drop compensator, built in range finder, illuminated crosshairs, weight, eye relief, 1"or 30mm, target or hunting knobs, lense light transfer, cost. have fun!

[Precisionshooter]

Properly designed, the larger objective will yield - better resolution, brighter picture (when big animals are moving around - early morning late evening..) and greater flexibility of being out of position (larger exit pupil).

People often only relate exit pupil to the size of your eye pupil, however a ridiculously large exit pupil will allow you to shoot without your eye being closer to the centerline of the scope. Benchrest shooters know this all too well. 1mm exit pupil means you have to be directly inline (pretty much) with the scope center. If you are off...BLACK image. So folks, large exit pupil means you can also shoot in awkward positions.

Personally, I prefer the larger objectives. The New Swarovski Z6 With FL glass and 56mm is probably the best glass I have looked through...

Go big!

Joe

[Precisionshooter]

A good quality 40 mm scope will give you adequate light transmission down to last legal shooting light. The extra 10mm of objective lens may allow you to see longer past legal shooting light, but if you are not interested in "stretching" the law beyond reasonable, the 50 mm just adds bulk and price. If you're going to spend xtra cash spend it on a 30mm tube.

Shoot in BC some time in the foot hills of the Rockies... or in a well shaded forest. You will not see what a person using a quality 56mm will see! Coupled with this, try to see into dark forest outside of a treeline at dusk or dawn...you will not see what a person will see using quality glass.

This kind of post is the most misleading type of post out there. Perhaps you might be better saying.. in your experience...................

[sheephunter]

Shoot in BC some time in the foot hills of the Rockies... or in a well shaded forest. You will not see what a person using a quality 56mm will see! Coupled with this, try to see into dark forest outside of a treeline at dusk or dawn...you will not see what a person will see using quality glass.

This kind of post is the most misleading type of post out there. Perhaps you might be better saying.. in your experience...................

Again it all depends on magnification. Lots of myths about objective lens size. Not a whole lot of difference any more in light transition with decent quality optics. Lots of other reasons to by high end optics but amazingly, most coating are so good now a days that there's only a few percent difference in light transmission.

[sheephunter]

Properly designed, the larger objective will yield - better resolution, brighter picture (when big animals are moving around - early morning late evening..) and greater flexibility of being out of position (larger exit pupil).

People often only relate exit pupil to the size of your eye pupil, however a ridiculously large exit pupil will allow you to shoot without your eye being closer to the centerline of the scope. Benchrest shooters know this all too well. 1mm exit pupil means you have to be directly inline (pretty much) with the scope center. If you are off...BLACK image. So folks, large exit pupil means you can also shoot in awkward positions.

Personally, I prefer the larger objectives. The New Swarovski Z6 With FL glass and 56mm is probably the best glass I have looked through...

Go big!

Joe

Perhaps if your sight picture was only the same size as the exit pupil but if you are relying on exit pupil size to see the target, you've got some real issues with the way your scope is mounted or the way your head is positioned. Field of view does not correlate to exit pupil.

[Precisionshooter]

Perhaps if your sight picture was only the same size as the exit pupil but if you are relying on exit pupil size to see the target, you've got some real issues with the way your scope is mounted or the way your head is positioned. Field of view does not correlate to exit pupil.


No worries. You need the exit pupil in order to see anything. Mounting a scope is dependent on a few variables, objective size being one. Very simply shoot in -30c weather with a 16x fixed with a 40mm mounted as low as possible to keep those who believe it is necessary to keep cheek weld. Now toss on two balaclavas to keep your head warm and you can only see the exit pupil if you force your cheek into the stock to compress the material. In normal temperatures no worries but now with the extra material between your cheek and the stock and you quickly find you can't see through your scope. Now use a scope with a 56 or 72mm objective and no worries.

In any event, physics doesn't change. Bigger yields better resolution, brighter picture and larger exit pupils. Parallax adjustment eliminates parallax issues. If you are a snap shot with no time to make adjustments you might not want a large objective but at close range, I haven't had problems either way!

The only downside on large objectives from my prospective is weight and even then, for the hunting I am doing and my physical condition it isn't an issue.

[sheephunter]

No worries. You need the exit pupil in order to see anything. Mounting a scope is dependent on a few variables, objective size being one. Very simply shoot in -30c weather with a 16x fixed with a 40mm mounted as low as possible to keep those who believe it is necessary to keep cheek weld. Now toss on two balaclavas to keep your head warm and you can only see the exit pupil if you force your cheek into the stock to compress the material. In normal temperatures no worries but now with the extra material between your cheek and the stock and you quickly find you can't see through your scope. Now use a scope with a 56 or 72mm objective and no worries.

In any event, physics doesn't change. Bigger yields better resolution, brighter picture and larger exit pupils. Parallax adjustment eliminates parallax issues. If you are a snap shot with no time to make adjustments you might not want a large objective but at close range, I haven't had problems either way!

The only downside on large objectives from my prospective is weight and even then, for the hunting I am doing and my physical condition it isn't an issue.

Alot of that sounds good on paper but really doesn't transfer to the real world unfortunately. The day you start aiming through exit pupil is the day you are in big trouble.

[Precisionshooter]

Alot of that sounds good on paper but really doesn't transfer to the real world unfortunately. The day you start aiming through exit pupil is the day you are in big trouble.


Paper? I gave you a simple example and could give you more. When you look through your scope what do you think are looking through?

I am speaking purely through many years of experience and physics doesn't change.

At one time I used to think differently when it came to optics but experience and knowledge changed my views.

Poorly thought-out budgets prevent people from using premium optics such as optics with FL glass. Thankfully industry recognizes people are willing to spend money on premium optics that they will benefit from.

In the end you are obviously happy with what you are using and that is all that is important. If it works for you fantastic, but there are significant benefits with other designs.

[sheephunter]

Paper? I gave you a simple example and could give you more. When you look through your scope what do you think are looking through?

I am speaking purely through many years of experience and physics doesn't change.

At one time I used to think differently when it came to optics but experience and knowledge changed my views.

Poorly thought-out budgets prevent people from using premium optics such as optics with FL glass. Thankfully industry recognizes people are willing to spend money on premium optics that they will benefit from.

In the end you are obviously happy with what you are using and that is all that is important. If it works for you fantastic, but there are significant benefits with other designs.

LOL...I'm no stranger to FL glass but that doesn't change the fact that you are not aiming through a hole the diameter of the exit pupil. Exit pupil most definitely doesn't increase your sight picture. 10mm would be a massive exit pupil.......good luck finding your target through that hole. Exit pupil has no bearing on field of view. You are correct that physics is a constant.

[Precisionshooter]

Exit pupil is the a circular area often expressed in size by diameter. If your eye is not in this area will not see through your scope. The larger the area the better for off position shooting.

You don't have to believe me. I may not be explaining it well enough for you to understand. Perhaps some further research or even testing with your equipment might help you understand what is happening.

To simplfy further you might have a target scope 40x or more with a 40mm objective. the exit pupil on this scope is 1mm. The slightest eye movement out of the scope axis will yield a black picture.... you will see only a black image.

An exit pupil measured @ 10mm diameter offers significant out of position shooting.

I don't think I can explain it any better.

[sheephunter]

Exit pupil is the a circular area often expressed in size by diameter. If your eye is not in this area will not see through your scope. The larger the area the better for off position shooting.

You don't have to believe me. I may not be explaining it well enough for you to understand. Perhaps some further research or even testing with your equipment might help you understand what is happening.

To simplfy further you might have a target scope 40x or more with a 40mm objective. the exit pupil on this scope is 1mm. The slightest eye movement out of the scope axis will yield a black picture.... you will see only a black image.

An exit pupil measured @ 10mm diameter offers significant out of position shooting.

I don't think I can explain it any better.

Not saying you are wrong ps, it's just that the advantatges don't tranfer well to a hunting scope. When you are rock solid on bags perhaps and that's a big perhaps but with a hunting situation not a chance in the world. Really the only tangible advantage to a large objective on a hunting scope is its ability to gather light and that comes with a 5mm exit pupil limit for guys our age. Like I say, a lot of these things sound good on paper but their real world hunting application is negligible. The disadvantages of a large objective lens on a hunting scope vastly out weigh the off chance that you are on a rock solid rest and your head is slightly out of position. Sadly their are a lot of myths about hunting scopes.

[Precisionshooter]

Not saying you are wrong ps, it's just that the advantatges don't tranfer well to a hunting scope. When you are rock solid on bags perhaps and that's a big perhaps but with a hunting situation not a chance in the world. Really the only tangible advantage to a large objective on a hunting scope is its ability to gather light and that comes with a 5mm exit pupil limit for guys our age. Like I say, a lot of these things sound good on paper but their real world hunting application is negligible. The disadvantages of a large objective lens on a hunting scope vastly out weigh the off chance that you are on a rock solid rest and your head is slightly out of position. Sadly their are a lot of myths about hunting scopes.


As I had said earlier. Glad you are happy with your optics. I know the only driver for me to go to the small scopes will be weight! Perhaps when I am 80 or so...we'll shoot with the same glass. LOL.