Gun Closet Ideas

[TheClash]

So, my basement is in the final stages of being finished and my man cave, or testosteroom as a friend calls it, needs some finishing touches.

I have a decent sized closet (3 feet by 3 feet by 8 feet high) that will become my gun closet. It will have a fingerprint activated lock on it and I am just trying to decide how I should lay out the inside of the closet.

I kind of like the idea of having the gun rack elevated..for a few reasons:

-allows storage underneath the guns...yes I have lots of room for shelves above the guns, but it is easier to access items at floor level

-gets the guns off the floor in case flooding ever happens

- I think it looks nicer to have them at "eye level" or a bit lower rather than right on the floor.

what do you guys think? anyone have any photos of a gun closet they have tricked out, or some plans etc.

[Private Ear]

Sorry I don't have any ideas for ya. I really like the idea of raising them up. I hadn't considered that.

I'll be building one out at the acreage soon and I think I will incorporate that concept. Thanks!

[Jamie]

So, my basement is in the final stages of being finished and my man cave, or testosteroom as a friend calls it, needs some finishing touches.

I have a decent sized closet (3 feet by 3 feet by 8 feet high) that will become my gun closet. It will have a fingerprint activated lock on it and I am just trying to decide how I should lay out the inside of the closet.

I kind of like the idea of having the gun rack elevated..for a few reasons:

-allows storage underneath the guns...yes I have lots of room for shelves above the guns, but it is easier to access items at floor level

-gets the guns off the floor in case flooding ever happens

- I think it looks nicer to have them at "eye level" or a bit lower rather than right on the floor.

what do you guys think? anyone have any photos of a gun closet they have tricked out, or some plans etc.

When I built mine, I raised the guns and then put SUPER hevey duty drawers that lock below. I used comercial grade sliders and solid wood construction. That way I can keep loads of ammo under the guns and it is still seperate and locked.

Also I didnt use a scalloped rest for the top of the guns, I just used a peg type system. I will take some photos and post up.
It came out GREAT!!
Mind you my space is a bit larger as I used a walkin closet.


Jamie

[Ken07AOVette]

I always wished I would have put in a hidden vault, if you don't see it you can't open it.
Whatever size you make it, add a foot in both directions, nothing is ever big enough.

Are you steel lining or concrete lining for theft and fire proofing?

[Soreneck Racing]

While you are still in the building stage, why dont you line your closet with two layers of 5/8ths type x drywall. As well, instead of a typical hollow closet door, find yourself a solid wood door or even better install a commercial metal frame and a metal door. These two ideas would improve your fire safety factor by quite a bit.

You might check out some of the building supply places for the metal door/frame for a less expensive version-maybe that Nail and Hammer place in Lethbridge? Get one that is predrilled for a deadbolt lock or use the doorknob hole for a deadbolt only.

Post your "cave pictures" pictures when they are done.

[TheClash]

ken I have considered a false back on this closet.....this one will not be concrete or steel lined...but if and when I build my own home I will consider that for sure.

Jamie I would love to see some photos.

I haven't decided if i want to do the scalloped look or not..I like your idea of the peg type of a system.

[Ken07AOVette]

I would think that a drywalled, or even drywalled closet would not be legally sufficient for a gun cabinet. There are specific requirements for gun rooms, and although a closet is not a room, it is not a vault or safe either.

I would think think you have to line with concrete or steel to be legal. Above and beyond legal, I sure would not trust wood doors and drywall to keep people away from my guns.

[artie]

A year or so ago I did a thread on my guns rusting in the basement. Others have had this problem and some of the ideas to prevent this was to have a small heater in the gun cabinet or use something in the cabinet that absorbs moisture. Others did not have a problem with guns rusting in the basement but I did. I left a new piece of exhaust pipe in the basement and a couple of years later it was completely rusted.

[TheClash]

I would think that a drywalled, or even drywalled closet would not be legally sufficient for a gun cabinet. There are specific requirements for gun rooms, and although a closet is not a room, it is not a vault or safe either.

I would think think you have to line with concrete or steel to be legal. Above and beyond legal, I sure would not trust wood doors and drywall to keep people away from my guns.

how is it any less safe or less legal than a gun cabinet with glass front doors and cheap plywood sides?

[TheClash]

While you are still in the building stage, why dont you line your closet with two layers of 5/8ths type x drywall. As well, instead of a typical hollow closet door, find yourself a solid wood door or even better install a commercial metal frame and a metal door. These two ideas would improve your fire safety factor by quite a bit.

You might check out some of the building supply places for the metal door/frame for a less expensive version-maybe that Nail and Hammer place in Lethbridge? Get one that is predrilled for a deadbolt lock or use the doorknob hole for a deadbolt only.

Post your "cave pictures" pictures when they are done.


Did a solid door, but just standard drywall.

will post pics when it is finished.

[elkhunter11]

I would think that a drywalled, or even drywalled closet would not be legally sufficient for a gun cabinet. There are specific requirements for gun rooms, and although a closet is not a room, it is not a vault or safe either.

I would think think you have to line with concrete or steel to be legal. Above and beyond legal, I sure would not trust wood doors and drywall to keep people away from my guns.

There is no legal requirement to line a gun room or gun vault with steel or concrete. You can use a closet or even a spare room , but all exposed door hinges must be welded or pinned, and if there is a window in the room, you must add bars or a barrier so that it isn't simply a matter of greaking glass to gain access.

[TheClash]

There is no legal requirement to line a gun room or gun vault with steel or concrete. You can use a closet or even a spare room , but all exposed door hinges must be welded or pinned, and if there is a window in the room, you must add bars or a barrier so that it isn't simply a matter of greaking glass to gain access.

no window in this room...and I do not see the hinges rule anywhere in the pdf I down loaded:

Unload and lock your firearms! Store the ammunition separately or lock it up. It can be
stored in the same locked container as the firearms.
Non-restricted firearms
Attach a secure locking device, such as a trigger lock or cable lock (or remove the bolt) so the firearms cannot be fired; or
Lock the firearms in a cabinet, container or room that is difficult to break into.
Unloaded non-restricted firearms can be kept unlocked: temporarily if they are needed to control animal
predators in an area where firearms can lawfully be fired (ammunition must be kept separate or locked up); or
in a remote wilderness area (ammunition may be kept readily accessible).

[elkhunter11]

More information from the NFA site.

http://www.nfa.ca/node/132

[Storage of Non-Restricted Firearms] 5. (1) An individual may store a non-restricted firearm only if

(a) it is unloaded;

(b) it is

(i) rendered inoperable by means of a secure locking device,

(ii) rendered inoperable by the removal of the bolt or bolt-carrier, or

(iii) stored in a container, receptacle or room that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into; and

(c) it is not readily accessible to ammunition, unless the ammunition is stored, together with or separately from the firearm, in a container or receptacle that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into.

(2) Paragraph (1)(b) does not apply to any individual who stores a non-restricted firearm temporarily if the individual reasonably requires it for the control of predators or other animals in a place where it may be discharged in accordance with all applicable Acts of Parliament and of the legislature of a province, regulations made under such Acts, and municipal by-laws.

(3) Paragraph (1)(b) and (c) do not apply to an individual who stores a non-restricted firearm in a location that is in a remote wilderness area that is not subject to any visible or otherwise reasonably ascertainable use incompatible with hunting.

There are certain areas here that are readily understandable.

The firearm must be stored unloaded. That is pretty straightforward, and it is the same for all classes of firearms, in the possession of anyone.

The firearm must be either trigger locked, or have the bolt removed, or must be stored in a secure locked container, receptacle or room.

We receive many calls on this. Some people think a locked closet is considered secure, as described in section 5(1)(b)(iii) above.

However, if the locked closet can be easily opened by removing the pins from the hinges, then the closet may not meet the standard of being a “room that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into.”

Opening the door, and drilling a blind hole through the stationary part of the hinge and part way into the pin, in the area of the hinge that will be covered by the other half of the hinge when the door is shut, can easily fix that problem. If one then hammers a pin into that blind hole, the pins cannot be removed, and the new locking pin itself cannot even be seen when the door is shut.

A sheet metal gun safe, or other locked metal container fits the description of "safe" in Black's Law Dictionary. So does the thick-walled fireproof box with a combination dial that most people think of when they think of a “safe.”

Each is a "metal container for the preservation of valuables."

There are no actual definitions in the regulations as to exactly what is considered a secure locked room, receptacle or container (any place with an unbarred window is NOT). In the case of a person charged with illegal storage, it will be a police officer who will first decide whether your storage facility is legal or not.

It will then be up to you and your lawyer (with National Firearms Association assistance) to “prove” to a Judge, or to persuade the Crown prosecutor, that your storage was correct under the law. Persuading the Crown saves the cost of a trial.

If you have a rifle, and you remove the bolt from the rifle, then, according to the regulations, that rifle can be stored anywhere. There is no mention in the regulations as to how far away from the firearm that bolt must be. The Regulations do not require that the bolt of a non-restricted firearm has to be stored with any special precautions.

A restricted handgun can be stored, trigger-locked and unloaded, in a locked container that “cannot readily be broken open or into” or in the usual secure vault, safe or room “that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into.

The storage regulations for prohibited firearms that are automatic, and that have bolts or bolt carriers, specify that the bolt or bolt carrier must be stored in a separate room in a securely locked container.

The regulations say that a firearm must be stored so that it is “not readily accessible to ammunition, unless the ammunition is stored, together with or separately from the firearm, in a container or receptacle that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into.”

Again, there is no definition in the regulations to tell the reader what “not readily accessible” means.

Is it in a separate room, or is it in the box the ammunition came in sitting beside the firearm? This is an area of the Regulations that will have to be decided by a Judge one day.

Now, comes in an area which many people find very confusing, the difference between storage and use.

Situation: You are at home, and you have your Remington 700 bolt-action rife sitting on your gun bench. You are cleaning it. The doorbell rings and you leave the firearm sitting on your bench and leave the room to answer the door.

At the door is a police officer.

If he were to enter your home, and see your Remington 700 rifle sitting on the bench, would you be subject to any charges?

Answer: Today, as long as you had a valid firearm license, either an FAC or a POL or PAL, and a registration certificate for the firearm, there would be no charges that he could lay which would hold up in court, because the firearm is not IN STORAGE, so no storage law applies to it.

In some cases like this, the firearm owner has been charged with illegal storage of a firearm, in spite of the fact that the firearm is not in storage, and has been removed from storage.

Use can be cleaning your firearm, showing it to someone, or simply admiring it. You could be sitting in your living room reading a book dealing with your firearm, with the firearm sitting on the table for reference. That would be a firearm in use.

In today’s world, between the government and the media, firearms have gained a certain notoriety. Often a law enforcement officer will think that he should automatically lay a charge, just because he sees a firearm. He is often wrong.

When a charge is laid improperly, the National Firearms Association can usually brief the owner or, preferably, his lawyer on the legal technicalities involved in that particular case. Once those legal technicalities are pointed out to the Crown prosecutor, such charges are usually dropped before trial.

[TheClash]

so it isn't "law"

There are no actual definitions in the regulations as to exactly what is considered a secure locked room, receptacle or container (any place with an unbarred window is NOT). In the case of a person charged with illegal storage, it will be a police officer who will first decide whether your storage facility is legal or not.

It will then be up to you and your lawyer (with National Firearms Association assistance) to “prove” to a Judge, or to persuade the Crown prosecutor, that your storage was correct under the law. Persuading the Crown saves the cost of a trial.

however it is a good idea. Will have to pin the hinges. not a bad idea anyways.

[Ken07AOVette]

how is it any less safe or less legal than a gun cabinet with glass front doors and cheap plywood sides?

Those have not been legal for years, which is the reason you see them at garage sales for 9.00

[TheClash]

I guess without a clear and concise definition of what is 'hard to break into" it is up for interpretation.

[Ken07AOVette]

I am trying to agree without arguement here Clash, but I think if you can get into it without a sledge hammer, cutting torch or 6' prybar it is not worth building.

I bought an 800# safe, wish I had made the secure room like I mentioned. I know it was not your idea, but 2 sheets of drywall stacked is not going to cut it.

On that note, I have a 10' 125 ton break here, if you need some custom steel work done, let me know.

[TheClash]

I am trying to agree without arguement here Clash, but I think if you can get into it without a sledge hammer, cutting torch or 6' prybar it is not worth building.

I bought an 800# safe, wish I had made the secure room like I mentioned. I know it was not your idea, but 2 sheets of drywall stacked is not going to cut it.

On that note, I have a 10' 125 ton break here, if you need some custom steel work done, let me know.

Oh I agree, not trying to argue, just what I have for now and as far as I am concerned it is good enough. Someday it will be different but for now I am satisfied. Thank you for the steel work offer. IMHO my room with a locking door as well as a closet with a locking solid door is harder to access than the cheap "legal" sheet metal safes you can buy at Canadian tire.

[Ken07AOVette]

All you need now is a Monster Energy Fridge :thinking-006:

(had to get that one in before anyone else :scared0018:)

[TheClash]

All you need now is a Monster Energy Fridge :thinking-006:

(had to get that one in before anyone else :scared0018:)

LOL, you know where I can get one??...has to be a good price though haha


actually...mini fridge..hmmmm

in all honesty I do appreciate the heads up on here. I will be looking into pinning the hinges for sure.

[Ken07AOVette]

What about a Brunswick snooker table? I have an extra one here I am not using.....:sHa_shakeshout:

[Ken07AOVette]

[QUOTE=TheClash;878861]LOL, you know where I can get one??...has to be a good price though haha

If you go back in the threads, there were some shmartashes that found some cheap in Houston, Tx.
QUOTE]


I had a seacan full but Albertadiver spoke for them. He may have 1 or 2 left. :scared0018:

[TheClash]

[QUOTE=TheClash;878861]LOL, you know where I can get one??...has to be a good price though haha

If you go back in the threads, there were some shmartashes that found some cheap in Houston, Tx.
QUOTE]


I had a seacan full but Albertadiver spoke for them. He may have 1 or 2 left. :scared0018:


I'm afraid the snooker table would take up all the room in my testosteroom....

[Kanonfodder]

[QUOTE=TheClash;878861]LOL, you know where I can get one??...has to be a good price though haha

If you go back in the threads, there were some shmartashes that found some cheap in Houston, Tx.
QUOTE]


I had a seacan full but Albertadiver spoke for them. He may have 1 or 2 left. :scared0018:

I like the idea of building a shelving unit in front of the door that swings open..concealing the room helps to make it safe and secure..imo

[CaberTosser]

I think a good approach to security would be a hardened room. Have a mason build one of masonry blocks, and use rebar, filling the voids with concrete. Pouring a concrete ceiling over the thing would seal the fire envelope, though it would admittedly be a chore. Perhaps some of those precast concrete panels could be utilized for a roof, such as ones I see in parkades or condos ( an example being seen off Macleod Trail in Calgary, at the new high rise condos by Heritage LRT). Be sure to run some metallic conduit for lighting and alarm if desired, and products to line the interior for further fire rating are available. Micore 300 board would be ideal for such an application, then finish over that for the interior with drywall or birch cabinet plywood. A vault door could be used, or a heavy steel door with a flange to overlap the door seam would be good too. I think some available commercial steel doors could be modified/reinforced for the application. Hiding the thing of course would help. And just show the results to trusted friends, not the whole Internet.

[deerhunter]

Go over to a safe company and see if they have any used vaults. I bought one at calgary lock and safe. They wanted 3g for it. I offered them $1500.00 and told them it included delivery and gst. gave them my cell number and walked out. Before I got home the cell rang and they asked me where I wanted it delivered to. It is a bank vault 32in deep 4 ft wide and 6 ft high. Weighs 5000 lbs has a 2hour fire rating at 1250 degrees. I have moved this thing 3 times now and every time it gets easier. But seriously look and see if they have any and build it into your space.

[sparky660]

Those have not been legal for years, which is the reason you see them at garage sales for 9.00

I don't know if I am reading this correctly but this is from the cfc website:


Storing Firearms Safely

Unload and lock your firearms!
Store the ammunition separately or lock it up. It can be stored in the same locked container as the firearm.

Non-restricted firearms

Attach a secure locking device, such as a trigger lock or cable lock (or remove the bolt) so the firearms cannot be fired; or
Lock the firearms in a container or room that is hard to break into.


An unloaded non-restricted firearm can be kept unlocked:

temporarily if it is needed to control animal predators in an area where a firearm can lawfully be fired (ammunition must be kept separate or locked up); or
in a remote wilderness area (ammunition may be kept readily accessible).




Would this make guns stored in a display cabinet with a trigger lock legal? From what I can see it should.

[sparky660]

Looks like a couple of people have beat me to the punch.:bad_boys_20:

[Grizzly Adams]

I would think that a drywalled, or even drywalled closet would not be legally sufficient for a gun cabinet. There are specific requirements for gun rooms, and although a closet is not a room, it is not a vault or safe either.

I would think think you have to line with concrete or steel to be legal. Above and beyond legal, I sure would not trust wood doors and drywall to keep people away from my guns.

Lots of ways to harden your storage facility, Thick plywood sheathing, closely spaced re-bar in the walls are couple that come to mind. Multiple layers of drywall and a fire rated door will give fire resistance. Good locking system is a must.

Grizz

[Ken07AOVette]

Lots of ways to harden your storage facility, Thick plywood sheathing, closely spaced re-bar in the walls are couple that come to mind. Multiple layers of drywall and a fire rated door will give fire resistance. Good locking system is a must.

Grizz

the closely spaced rebar is a great idea, enough space that a drill bit would just bounce around, but not enough to get a chain through.

I thought I was completely secure with the big safe, until I read about thieves wrapping a logging chain around the safes, through a window, and pulling it right through the wall. :sign0161:

I am still good though, the first 4' of wall is concrete surrounded by backfill, they would need a payloader to get mine out.