Province to make mud-bogging illegal on crown land

[sjd]

http://www.660news.com/news/local/article/202702--plan-aims-to-make-mud-bogging-illegal-on-crown-land

Good. Its been a long time coming.

[great white whaler]

about time.

[Ryry4]

Any idea what they are considering mud bogging? Will that include the use of OHV in there areas? As far as the guys that go out and rip up the country side I'm glad to see it getting shut down.

[SammyIam]

In reading the article, why would the South Sask. Regional Advisory be doing this for Alberta? Is it just a typo in the article? Or is Alberta the typo?

[TheClash]

seems fairly ambiguous to me on what activities may or may not be allowed...bit of a slippery slope.

[sjd]

It seems that this is the planning group the government has asked for advice on developing its plan for the region.

http://www.landuse.alberta.ca/

Also seems to be recommending designated trails for ATVs in the forestry and conservation areas (mostly on native prairie) covering 11% of crown land of the region where motorized access will be "discouraged".

Map here:

http://alberta.ca/acn/201103/30127@%20Final%20-%20SSRP%20RAC%20Advice%20Document%20-%20Candidate%20Conservation%20Management%20Areas%2 0Map%20-%202011-01-13.pdf[/URL]

[TheClash]

I think having designated trails for ohv use is a good idea.

[yukon12]

I think having designated trails for ohv use is a good idea.

You are likely right Clash. But to tell you the truth they can make as many laws as they want if they do not enforce them then it really does not matter. The put the designated trails in the Ghost area and excpet for the long weekends they do not enforce them very much.

Also there no mention in here about designating horse trails along with ATV trails :bad_boys_20:

[TheClash]

very true...enforcement will be the issue. I think there is room enough for all of us out there...it is the small minority of idiots that seem to ruin it for all.

[yukon12]

Completely agree there is room for everyone

[duffy4]

about time.

agreed!

[Deer Hunter]

Perfect! More room for the "wild" horses...:scared0018:

[doetracks]

In reading the article, why would the South Sask. Regional Advisory be doing this for Alberta? Is it just a typo in the article? Or is Alberta the typo?

South Saskatchewan is a region (also a river in SE AB), from just north of Airdrie down to the U.S. border.



http://cpawsnab.org/news/south-saskatchewan-regional-advisory-council-appointed/image_mini

[sparky660]

As with any laws they mean little if there is no enforcement. There has been a new law in effect for a few years now that if you are caught ripping up the land you can get fined up to $100 000. Last time I heard there was one guy charged that ended up getting thrown out of court. Nothing is going to change real drastically anytime soon.

[hunter49]

Slippery slope forsure... you take a 4x4 trail to a hunting spot and now your being written up a ticket?

[Albertadiver]

Well, all I know is I'm glad Duffy's on a time out to allow this thread to progress!

[Lonnie]

I think having designated trails for ohv use is a good idea.

you guys are nuts, just enforce the laws that are there now as for designated trials we will end up like Europe or even worse parts of Asia that even in the forest you are only allowed to walk on designated trials, can you imagine hunting from only designated trails. this also opens the door to no camping except in designated areas alberta forestry has wanted that for years mined you that probably would only affect a few fishermen and hunters that camp in the back country. and as for mud bogging that is usually a community thing that is held in the same spot year after year and the bit of ground used for that amounts to nothing some Idiot is trying to screw things up probably a politician looking for quick votes.

[sheepguide]

Definatly a needed thing in a few areas. Some areas that have seen alot of 4x4 traffic is in pretty rough shape.

One thing this shows though is that as soon as one group is mentioned then all users are being targeted on here.
Do 4x4's need to be controled, of coarse.
Do atvs need designated trail systems? In a few areas, but not all.
Do horses need designated trails? No, Only reason brought up is because others are controlled.

SG

[yukon12]

Perfect! More room for the "wild" horses...:scared0018:

LOL Here comes sheepguide.

[yukon12]

you guys are nuts, just enforce the laws that are there now as for designated trials we will end up like Europe or even worse parts of Asia that even in the forest you are only allowed to walk on designated trials, can you imagine hunting from only designated trails. this also opens the door to no camping except in designated areas alberta forestry has wanted that for years mined you that probably would only affect a few fishermen and hunters that camp in the back country. and as for mud bogging that is usually a community thing that is held in the same spot year after year and the bit of ground used for that amounts to nothing some Idiot is trying to screw things up probably a politician looking for quick votes.

Dead on Loonie. There are major problems out there but designating trails when they can not even enforce the rules they go now is a waste of time.

[yukon12]

Definatly a needed thing in a few areas. Some areas that have seen alot of 4x4 traffic is in pretty rough shape.

One thing this shows though is that as soon as one group is mentioned then all users are being targeted on here.
Do 4x4's need to be controled, of coarse.
Do atvs need designated trail systems? In a few areas, but not all.
Do horses need designated trails? No, Only reason brought up is because others are controlled.

SG

Give it up sheepguide. Horses cause damage to so your wrong :snapoutofit: It makes no sense to restrict all groups except for one.

[avb3]

...
Do 4x4's need to be controled, of coarse.
Do atvs need designated trail systems? In a few areas, but not all.
Do horses need designated trails? No, Only reason brought up is because others are controlled.

SG

Hmmm... I have seen serious erosion in the foothills and mountains caused by trail horses. In fact, on some surfaces they are far more detrimental than ATV's, especially when run-off occurs.

The problem with both horses and ATV's is that they tend to stay on one trail, causing both compaction (ATV's) and depressions (horses).

I'm not a huge fan of either in most areas of the eastern slopes, although certainly horses have their place in the Willmore.

JMHO

[hal53]

Give it up sheepguide. Horses cause damage to so your wrong :snapoutofit: It makes no sense to restrict all groups except for one.
as an old guy, that hunted out west for years on foot and went back to camp for a new fangled quad to drag out the game....why do you have to mudbog there?....couldn't you find a land owner someplace that will let you do it...so you're not destroying crown land???

[Lonnie]

Definatly a needed thing in a few areas. Some areas that have seen alot of 4x4 traffic is in pretty rough shape.

One thing this shows though is that as soon as one group is mentioned then all users are being targeted on here.
Do 4x4's need to be controled, of coarse.
Do atvs need designated trail systems? In a few areas, but not all.
Do horses need designated trails? No, Only reason brought up is because others are controlled.

SG

there are laws that are suppose to prevent that kind of abuse. start charging those people and I would bet that the 4x4s stay on roads or only where thier allowed the forestry & F&W, & RCMP can hand out some real nasty fines for that with the laws that are already on the books.not sure about how much power the forestry has in alberta but if any thing like B.C. they got lots if they want to use it.

[yukon12]

as an old guy, that hunted out west for years on foot and went back to camp for a new fangled quad to drag out the game....why do you have to mudbog there?....couldn't you find a land owner someplace that will let you do it...so you're not destroying crown land???

Do not get me wrong. I completely agree that the guys and girls that are going out and destroying the crown land and mudboging should not be. What I think is:

1 - It is a waste of time is making new laws when they do not even enforce the current ones.

2 - There is room for all recerational activities in this province.

3 - Restricting access to every group but horses is stupid. Horses cause damage just like ATV's.

4 - It is a small group of people doing this crap and they are going to ruin it for everyone.

[yukon12]

there are laws that are suppose to prevent that kind of abuse. start charging those people and I would bet that the 4x4s stay on roads or only where thier allowed the forestry & F&W, & RCMP can hand out some real nasty fines for that with the laws that are already on the books.not sure about how much power the forestry has in alberta but if any thing like B.C. they got lots if they want to use it.

This is the problem. They do not enforce the laws. Even on the long weekends they are only on the roads not in the back country. So guys just drive away from the road and then do what they want.

[Unregistered user]

Anybody know where I can get a deal on some Granola?

[u_cant_rope_the_wind]

define mud bogging

[Lonnie]

as an old guy, that hunted out west for years on foot and went back to camp for a new fangled quad to drag out the game....why do you have to mudbog there?....couldn't you find a land owner someplace that will let you do it...so you're not destroying crown land???

I'm missing some thing here, what are you guys calling mud bogging any mud bogging that I ever seen was a community event where they had the firemen there and ambulance and a big pit of mud and run just like any other sporting event definitely not in a hunting area usually close to town.

[Kramsky]

Hmmm... I have seen serious erosion in the foothills and mountains caused by trail horses. In fact, on some surfaces they are far more detrimental than ATV's, especially when run-off occurs.

The problem with both horses and ATV's is that they tend to stay on one trail, causing both compaction (ATV's) and depressions (horses).

I'm not a huge fan of either in most areas of the eastern slopes, although certainly horses have their place in the Willmore.

JMHO

HHHMMMMM game trails cause erosion to. Lets ban the wildlife while were at it.

[hal53]

^^^^^
well then you haven't been out in the bush much......

[bakerman]

Putting a ban on mud bogging on crown land is not a bad thing as long that's as far as it goes. But how often does that ever happen? Once they start something like this it never stops until the whole quadding experience is ruined, and it's not even worth owning a quad. This is ultimately what most of the nuts making these rules have in mind since they know most hunters have a quad and anything they can do to keep hunters out of the woods is a big win win for them. We gotta stand together as sportsmen on all these issues or one day in the not too distant future we'll have nothing left.

[Walleyes]

Putting a ban on mud bogging on crown land is not a bad thing as long that's as far as it goes. But how often does that ever happen? Once they start something like this it never stops until the whole quadding experience is ruined, and it's not even worth owning a quad. This is ultimately what most of the nuts making these rules have in mind since they know most hunters have a quad and anything they can do to keep hunters out of the woods is a big win win for them. We gotta stand together as sportsmen on all these issues or one day in the not too distant future we'll have nothing left.

You got it bakerman,,, today its the south sask tomorrow the province..

It just amazes me how narrow minded outdoorsman are.. And after the quads then what will they go after next,, foot traffic ???

How is banning anything good for our sport..

The ignorance of people never ceases to amaze me... This mentality of,, its not what i do so lets ban it just has to stop..

What makes you think this banning will stop at this. Soon they will stop all public traffic on crown land in the south.

Unbelievable how stupid people can be..

[Lonnie]

^^^^^
well then you haven't been out in the bush much......

not in last 6 or7 years but this is a big province and there is a lot of bush and I gess a lot depends what part of the province your talking about as I went one year up to grand praire to hunt the most of that area was on big mud bog (pasquska)

[hal53]

^^^^ WOW!!! I think my thoughts were about the people going out and ripping up the land for fun ?....sorry....don't agree with that... horses and quad hunters don't do the damage in 10 years that a quad can do in a weekend on a mud blog fling ... my thoughts only..but pretty weak argument when you're bringing horses into the equation...

[sheepguide]

Give it up sheepguide. Horses cause damage to so your wrong :snapoutofit: It makes no sense to restrict all groups except for one.

Show me the vast damage. Put your money where your mouth is! Horses have been walking on the same trails for over 100years. Many of them trails were like that before the horses were using them. Most trails were well defined game trails before they were horse trails. If areas are that damaged from horse travel then yes horse use should be designated. So with that said you experts should show all the destruction. Proove me wrong !
Some areas need a little trail maintenance(re routing, bridges etc.) by all groups but to restrict horse travel to designated trails isnt going to accomplish much. Most horse users pretty well ride designated trails now so what are you gunna acheive?

Again guys are voicing their opinions but are showing no proof why they should be restricted. The proof is there of the destruction that ATV's and Vehicles do in certain areas. Thats why they need to be controled "in certain areas".
SG

[sheepguide]

I'm not a huge fan of either in most areas of the eastern slopes, although certainly horses have their place in the Willmore.

JMHO

So what is your rationalization here?

What is the difference between the Wilmore and any other area of the eastern slopes?

SG

[Lonnie]

^^^^ WOW!!! I think my thoughts were about the people going out and ripping up the land for fun ?....sorry....don't agree with that... horses and quad hunters don't do the damage in 10 years that a quad can do in a weekend on a mud blog fling ... my thoughts only..but pretty weak argument when you're bringing horses into the equation...

your definition of mud bogging and mine are to different things what your talking about is vandalism to the environment. like I said in a previous post catch some and fine the hell out of them. and make sure that its published in every major news paper in alberta that should slow it down some.and when I say fine the hell out of them I mean to the tune of $15,000 to $20,000.

[sheepguide]

I think the big thing is that as soon as one group gets designated or banned it steam rolls from there.
Pretty soon there will be only restricted foot access, no open fires, and designated foot trails so alpine grasses arent hurt.
We will not be able to enjoy what is out there because no one could get along.
All groups need to work together.
Of coarse vehicles need to be very limited in our outdoors, atv use in some areas is very destructive,
and even horse travel areas need to be maintained but as soon as all the banning starts it wont stop.
Give the 4x4 guys a designated area to play. It works in many states. Promote the trails, have rallys that make money for the up keep.
There is enough room for every group out there but everyone wants it for them selves and dont realize that by trying to ban or control all the other groups they are only hanging themselves.

I off road with a 4x4, I put 3000kms a year on an Atv, I use my horses in the back country and I also backpack, so I can see all sides of it but still dont see why people need to be so greedy all the time and try to get other groups banned or controled.

SG

[Albertadiver]

Pretty soon there will be only restricted foot access, no open fires, and designated foot trails so alpine grasses arent hurt.


That's exactly what y2y is trying to accomplish. This mud bugging thing is just another nail in the coffin supported by them.

[Lonnie]

horses and quads don't damage much if you use a little common sense.

[sheepguide]

That's exactly what y2y is trying to accomplish. This mud bugging thing is just another nail in the coffin supported by them.

And thats the thing many guys dont realize. Pretty soon "OUR" outdoors will not be ours anymore.
SG

[sheepguide]

horses and quads don't damage much if you use a little common sense.

X2

[huntin]

Give it up sheepguide. Horses cause damage to so your wrong :snapoutofit: It makes no sense to restrict all groups except for one.

This one time I seen a horse get stuck in the mud and the cowboy on him kicked him in the ribs. The horses feet just kept spinning. Then 2 more cowboy rode up beside the stuck cowboy on their souped up extra horse powered ponies and pulled him out there was mud and chit flying alover the place when it was all said and done they had to reroute the trail around that mud hole. TRUE STORY :snapoutofit: :sHa_sarcasticlol: :fighting0074:

[u_cant_rope_the_wind]

Putting a ban on mud bogging on crown land is not a bad thing as long that's as far as it goes. But how often does that ever happen? Once they start something like this it never stops until the whole quadding experience is ruined, and it's not even worth owning a quad. This is ultimately what most of the nuts making these rules have in mind since they know most hunters have a quad and anything they can do to keep hunters out of the woods is a big win win for them. We gotta stand together as sportsmen on all these issues or one day in the not too distant future we'll have nothing left.

I agree
Be carefull what you wish for you might just get it

[avb3]

So what is your rationalization here?

What is the difference between the Wilmore and any other area of the eastern slopes?

SG

In a word, access.

Most of the eastern slopes today have some type of road in close proximity, and getting out and walking/hiking/climbing is a good option.

The Willmore has no roads.

I am not totally against the use of horses or ATV's, but there needs to be a common sense use model in place.

Not using the same path over and over again (where possible) is one way, especially on slopes.

A designated trail on flat lands is not as subject to erosion as slopes are. We have all seen what happens on trails that are grooved down, and then rain comes and washes away the sides.

BTW, I love riding quads, and am damn good at it, especially at the gather at branding time, but we need to not excuse our passions for our recreation by being blind to the impacts our choice of recreation may have.

[Lefty-Canuck]

I remember specifically a few years back sheep hunting with a buddy near Cadomin, he had a draw for non-trophy and we manged to get one. We hiked all the way in...about 5 mins after he shot the sheep about 7 moto-X bikes came tearing up the mountain OFF ANY DESIGNATED TRAIL that they were supposed to be on and they were ripping back and forth up there tearing the ground up. Had we been 5 mins slower it would have messed up our hunt. We proceeded to bone out and pack our animal the 9-10kms back down to where WE PARKED OUR QUAD.....

Lefty

[Lonnie]

politicians like making new laws for big groups as this makes then some type of hero, just put some teeth in the laws that are there. there more than adequate. if not enough people to enforce them hire retired cops (RCMP & F&W)on a part time deal to patrol the back country on weekends.

[sjd]

There is valid debate about where and how to access the land for quads/hikers/horses. Sure there are conflicts here, but these are all legitimate uses and all need to be accommodated.

But mud-bogging? Maybe people have different definitions on what mud-bogging is. To me it is deliberate abuse of the land (that is probably actually already illegal, but it it is certainly not communicated a blind eye has been turned in the past). I am suprised folks on this board are defending it.

To use the slippery slope argument is pretty weak. We don't defend poachers on this board, and I don't consider someone who would see how deep they could get stuck in a muskeg or rip a stream an outdoorsman.

[nightmagic]

i agree , it's not the quad or horse doing the damage it the person on top of the thing, i do a crap load of atving and what the biggest probelm is that there is not enough suport for trails. The few groups that are around spend carzy amount of time on up keep of trails and cleaning up from yahoo's that dont care about the out doors. i work in ft mac and there is a 4x4 group they do a big clean up and they are hauling out stolen vechicles from the bush. most problems are kids out on the weekend drinking trips,





horses and quads don't damage much if you use a little common sense.

[D-Cell]

HHHMMMMM game trails cause erosion to. Lets ban the wildlife while were at it.

The white tail and Elk dont live in a sterilized sity, ride a 800 lbs quad.

And instead of driving where it is completely dry/dusty, go in the mudiest spot (right beside the dusty spot) stop and ream it out to China rocking back and forth while standing up on the quad with 3 inch lug implement style 32 inch tires creating a 3 and a half foot rut or hole. Where run off pools up and washes out a giagantic crater.

Then they spend the next 1/2 hour getting winches out trying to pull them selves out of a waist deep mudhole.

If you have no option I can understand going through mud.

[mudbug]

One group loses access then that's one more group that won't support the next group who is going to lose access :thinking-006:
Enforcemant of the existing laws is what's needed more than anything else.

[rugatika]

I want to ban horses in the wild, motorbikes, people hiking (they scare the wildlife...especially the ones with bear bells), fishermen, basically anything that disturbs mother nature one way or another should be banned from the forest. The worst offenders of course being fish and wildlife officers. No way should they be allowed in the wild. There...mother nature should be perfectly happy.

[airbornedeerhunter]

Been illegal in Newfoundland for years, the backcountry was getting destroyed by bog bikes. Now you're only permitted on pre-existing trails or woods roads. Not all laws concerning the outdoors are designed to make its enjoyment more difficult, problem is that the actions of the few ruin it all for the many!

[yukon12]

This one time I seen a horse get stuck in the mud and the cowboy on him kicked him in the ribs. The horses feet just kept spinning. Then 2 more cowboy rode up beside the stuck cowboy on their souped up extra horse powered ponies and pulled him out there was mud and chit flying alover the place when it was all said and done they had to reroute the trail around that mud hole. TRUE STORY :snapoutofit: :sHa_sarcasticlol: :fighting0074:

Wow your friends should really learn how to ride :sHa_shakeshout: The point is horses cause damage same as quads and it comes down to ressponsible use and banning stuff is never going to work. That same line of thinking gets you a useless gun registry. Stupid what we need to do is use the laws we got and stop the small amount of people doing the stupid stuff and get back to enjoying our crown land.

[yukon12]

One group loses access then that's one more group that won't support the next group who is going to lose access :thinking-006:
Enforcemant of the existing laws is what's needed more than anything else.

Agreed we got enoug groups out there trying to attack fishing and hunting as well as enjoying crown land. Banning stuff is stupid new laws a waste of time. Enforce the rules and get on with life.

[yukon12]

Show me the vast damage. Put your money where your mouth is! Horses have been walking on the same trails for over 100years. Many of them trails were like that before the horses were using them. Most trails were well defined game trails before they were horse trails. If areas are that damaged from horse travel then yes horse use should be designated. So with that said you experts should show all the destruction. Proove me wrong !
Some areas need a little trail maintenance(re routing, bridges etc.) by all groups but to restrict horse travel to designated trails isnt going to accomplish much. Most horse users pretty well ride designated trails now so what are you gunna acheive?

Again guys are voicing their opinions but are showing no proof why they should be restricted. The proof is there of the destruction that ATV's and Vehicles do in certain areas. Thats why they need to be controled "in certain areas".
SG

I did not say that horses should be banned. I happen to both ride horses and ATV's and like both. My point is if you advocate for banning ATV's then the same argument despite what you are trying to advocate can be applied to horses. Horse trails erode just like quad trails and horses also can bring weeds into the backcountry. Banning stuff is stupid horses guys going after the quad guys is stupid rifle guys not sticking up for hangun target shooters is stupid we got enough people after our way life we do not need to do it to each other.

Enforce the reassonable laws already there and stop the stupid stuff and everyone can enjoy this provinces public land. Start a war between user groups and the anti's win plain and simple.

The main problem is a couple idiots who only come out once in a while a couple stiff tickets will stop the bs and nothing needs to get banded.

[ctd]

I don't understand what exactly they are proposing. Mud Bog leaves a wide interpretation as to it's meaning, especially when they show a picture of a jacked up truck with big mud tires.
My quad can travel in areas I have a hard time walking though do to ground pressure.

I do think that enforcement of existing laws is whats needed. After all they already have laws in place to protect the streams and woods.

Pretty soon you won't be able to use quads in the Province.

But the same issues will happen if if all of a sudden the same people who own quads went out and bought horses. The damage would be worse in terms of long term effects due to the spread of disease and non native plants through out the area. From Feces and feed.

[roger]

put a bale or two of alfalfa bales on your highly modded 4x4 and say your saving lives of a useless horse. while your at it spread some purple loosestrife and cowcockle around.

[sheepguide]

I did not say that horses should be banned. I happen to both ride horses and ATV's and like both. My point is if you advocate for banning ATV's then the same argument despite what you are trying to advocate can be applied to horses. Horse trails erode just like quad trails and horses also can bring weeds into the backcountry. Banning stuff is stupid horses guys going after the quad guys is stupid rifle guys not sticking up for hangun target shooters is stupid we got enough people after our way life we do not need to do it to each other.

Enforce the reassonable laws already there and stop the stupid stuff and everyone can enjoy this provinces public land. Start a war between user groups and the anti's win plain and simple.

The main problem is a couple idiots who only come out once in a while a couple stiff tickets will stop the bs and nothing needs to get banded.

For one there is no where you will ever see me say any group should be banned! Ive argued for all groups and have only ever pushed that some areas do need control and enforcment.

Second a horse does less damage than any motorized vehicle going. Its fact and is why horses dont get the publicity that motorized vehicles do.
The reason that motorized vehicles are targeted is that a couple bad apples can in one weekend wreck more ground and cause more errosion than all the provinces old and new horse trails combined. How many 200 acre flats or marsh land does the public see ripped up by horses? How bout 100yrd long 20' wide, 5' deep mud holes where a natural spring once was because of a horse? Not one I bet. But you travel many areas in our foothills and this is seen all over. And this destruction in done by the minority of the motorized vehicle users out there. They are the ones that need to be targeted instead of everyone being banned! Has nothing to do with horses or foot traffic. Uncaring motorized vehicle users are the cause!

And yes the step that needs to be done is enforcment as without it nothing will improve no matter how many new rules and regulations are made.
The more groups that can responsibly enjoy the outdoors the better so we need as peers of these groups, do our share and not condone their actions and police it some ourselves.
SG

[yukon12]

For one there is no where you will ever see me say any group should be banned! Ive argued for all groups and have only ever pushed that some areas do need control and enforcment.

Second a horse does less damage than any motorized vehicle going. Its fact and is why horses dont get the publicity that motorized vehicles do.
The reason that motorized vehicles are targeted is that a couple bad apples can in one weekend wreck more ground and cause more errosion than all the provinces old and new horse trails combined. How many 200 acre flats or marsh land does the public see ripped up by horses? How bout 100yrd long 20' wide, 5' deep mud holes where a natural spring once was because of a horse? Not one I bet. But you travel many areas in our foothills and this is seen all over. And this destruction in done by the minority of the motorized vehicle users out there. They are the ones that need to be targeted instead of everyone being banned! Has nothing to do with horses or foot traffic. Uncaring motorized vehicle users are the cause!

And yes the step that needs to be done is enforcment as without it nothing will improve no matter how many new rules and regulations are made.
The more groups that can responsibly enjoy the outdoors the better so we need as peers of these groups, do our share and not condone their actions and police it some ourselves.
SG

Were saying the same thing. Banning is not the answer it is a complete waste of time and puts us against each other. Focus on ensuring ressponsible use and stick togther. But to argue horses should be allowed and atvs not allowed will just start a argument amongst each other. Waste of time and effort.

[Bushrat]

But the same issues will happen if if all of a sudden the same people who own quads went out and bought horses. The damage would be worse in terms of long term effects due to the spread of disease and non native plants through out the area. From Feces and feed.

Nah, they won't, horses are too much work and cost too much. Besides they can't put straight pipes on them and rip up and down the mountain at 130decibles in 3 minutes flat 50 times a day. No rooster tails spraying across the muskeg, no fun in that.:rolleye2:

[Lonnie]

In a word, access.

Mxost of the eastern slopes today have some type of road in close proximity, and getting out and walking/hiking/climbing is a good option.

The Willmore has no roads.

I am not totally against the use of horses or ATV's, but there needs to be a common sense use model in place.

Not using the same path over and over again (where possible) is one way, especially on slopes.

A designated trail on flat lands is not as subject to erosion as slopes are. We have all seen what happens on trails that are grooved down, and then rain comes and washes away the sides.

BTW, I love riding quads, and am damn good at it, especially at the gather at branding time, but we need to not excuse our passions for our recreation by being blind to the impacts our choice of recreation may have.




as for roads in close proximity there are a lot of places there are no close roades you almost need to fly over to realy get an idea fo how vast and isolated some of the back country of the eastern slopes realy are.

[RussellZ]

I don't anyone should be banned from doing any activity anywhere, as mentioned above, target the bad actors and give them the tickets they deserve.

On that same note, I refuse to believe people who tell me that quadding or 4x4ing etc causes the apparent immense long term damage to the land.

I do some 4x4ing and quadding myself, and while I don't drive through muskeg if I can help it (hate getting stuck, have places I am trying to get to, and hate cleaning my toys for that matter), and definitely avoid rivers except at hard bottomed and rocky bottoms for a perpendicular crossing etc, I don't see how going through a mud hole creates any real long term damage in the land. Sure, there is a depression there that collects water, and you may make it bigger, but I betcha if you left that trail sit for no more than 10 years, you wouldn't even be able to find it anymore, forget locating that specific hole.

I think everyone who enjoys a particular activity paints a real gruesome picture of everyone else to try and make their favourite look better. I think people need to start taking a stand as outdoorsmen as a whole and tell our government to leave us be. If they want a role to play, they need to target that loser driving his truck at wide open throttle in the North Sask, or the guy with the contaminated feed for his horse, or that guy on the bike chasing sheep around on the top of a mountain and leave people that stick to established rocky trails in the mountains alone, no matter the mode of transportation. We are not irreparably damaging the enviroment, and need to quit stabbing eachother in the back trying to save our own hobbies.

[TheClash]

you guys are nuts, just enforce the laws that are there now as for designated trials we will end up like Europe or even worse parts of Asia that even in the forest you are only allowed to walk on designated trials, can you imagine hunting from only designated trails. this also opens the door to no camping except in designated areas alberta forestry has wanted that for years mined you that probably would only affect a few fishermen and hunters that camp in the back country. and as for mud bogging that is usually a community thing that is held in the same spot year after year and the bit of ground used for that amounts to nothing some Idiot is trying to screw things up probably a politician looking for quick votes.

true enough, I guess I meant designating areas that were trail only and areas that off trail is allowed as well. Not banning from areas. But in reality it comes down to enforcing proper trail use.....and as far as I have seen this is not being done. And yes i quad, yes I enjoy it and yes I try to be as efficient as possible......not really into the big mud hole thing.....but if there are areas that can support those activities go for it..

[New Hunter Okotoks]

Like others have said: Define "Mud Bogging." The people saying that it's the idiots who are going to ruin it for everybody must be able to define idiot.

My interpretation of "idiot" in this case would be a guy in a lifted full sized truck with tires over 35" deliberately going into a mudhole to tear it up and screwing it up for others trying to access points further down the line. If there is a way around the mudhole for others to use as a path or road and the mudhole is just a play area, then I really could care less if guys want to beat up their trucks,quads,horses,dirtbikes,bicycles or running shoes.

Someone else might think that an idiot is anyone with a 4X4 going offroad regardless of intention.

I guess in the big picture how large are these areas that are being ruined anyways? I don't think we want to start any sort of "Banning" when it comes to accessing crown land.

[Unregistered user]

Most of where we go is forestry. Every 75 years or so this publicly owned land gets cut and chewed by the lumber companies and the trees are replanted and grow back and all is well. So a few quads dig a few holes to play in, big deal get over it.

[Nait Hadya]

destroying what? someone explain the value of a stretch of muskeg on a power line right of way? or a gasline right of way? or along a designated OHV trail? it has no impact on anything except your deluded visions of perfection.
in the same breath you will ignore the erosion of stream banks by horses and cattle,hypocrites.