Why so many elections in so little time

[fishnut9]

I'm only 23 so politics has only been my interest for a short time.i know elections are supposed to happen every 4 years or so. How bad have the conservatives been in the last few years. I mean it can't be any worse than introducing the gst. This isn't wHining just wondering.

[FishingMOM]

I'm only 23 so politics has only been my interest for a short time.i know elections are supposed to happen every 4 years or so. How bad have the conservatives been in the last few years. I mean it can't be any worse than introducing the gst. This isn't wHining just wondering.

The reason for so many elections is that no party has had a majority and been allowed to freely govern in ages.
Every time the opposition gets fed up they refuse to play and take their ball and go home. Meaning they force an election.

[fishnut9]

The reason for so many elections is that no party has had a majority and been allowed to freely govern in ages.
Every time the opposition gets fed up they refuse to play and take their ball and go home. Meaning they force an election.

So just a bunch of sore losers.that's what happens when you get an american to run for pm. Why couldn't they have gotten a gun crazy american instead. Then all us gun owners would look sane compared to him.

[Lonnie]

all of the political parties are so far off of what they stared out as that their all a bunch lying slippery millionaires that want power and that translates in to huge bucks so they lie and twist every thing to there advantage.and there all guilty of this. including Harper but look at every one running and try to figure out who would be best.

[Grizzly Adams]

We're in a bit of a quandary here. As long as the Bloc holds the balance of power in Quebec, the threat of Minority parliaments isn't going to go away. The new Canadian Reality. Free the West.:lol:

Grizz

[DarkAisling]

We're in a bit of a quandary here. As long as the Bloc holds the balance of power in Quebec, the threat of Minority parliaments isn't going to go away. The new Canadian Reality. Free the West.:lol:

Grizz

I think the last few years have been truly fascinating politically. However, that doesn't mean it hasn't been a huge pain in the arse and exceptionally frustrating at times. I personally am pleased to have experienced this period in Canadian politics (though I'll be very happy to see it end). It has been an incredible educational experience.

[6.5 shooter]

If we had a two party system, would not allow a separatist PROVINCIAL party, to have power in the Federal Government, we would go to the poles every 4 years. Till we get rid of THE BLOCK and stop pandering to Quebec, this will be the norm in this country.

[eastcoast]

If we had a two party system, would not allow a separatist PROVINCIAL party, to have power in the Federal Government, we would go to the poles every 4 years. Till we get rid of THE BLOCK and stop pandering to Quebec, this will be the norm in this country.

the 2 party system is worse than what we have here , look at the state of the us right now and be glad we don't have a 2 party system.

[airbornedeerhunter]

Main reason is minority governments. The Liberals cannot accept the fact that they are no longer in touch with mainstream Canada and demonstrate an inability to function as official opposition. The Liberal party has the mentality that they are the natural governing party of Canada and are beside themselves that they are on the other side of the house now. As a result, they vote against everything regardless of whether or not they fully interpret it correctly or not. The NDP are even worse and only cater to special interest groups such and welfare recipients, the anti-military crowd and minorities. The Bloc are only interested in Quebec and don't care about any policy that does'nt involve Quebec either negatively or positively. And the Greens are on a different planet altogether. In short, we need a Conservative majority so this foolishness can be put to rest once and for all. Once we have a majority the opposition can only grind their teeth and take it, nothing else. Get out young man and vote Tory!!

[Okotokian]

So just a bunch of sore losers.that's what happens when you get an american to run for pm. Why couldn't they have gotten a gun crazy american instead. Then all us gun owners would look sane compared to him.

What do you mean? We look sane compared to him now.

[6.5 shooter]

the 2 party system is worse than what we have here , look at the state of the us right now and be glad we don't have a 2 party system.

I would answer that but .... it would be just a waste of my time...

[ssyd]

While I would normally say that Albertans need to lose the brainless "I'm Albertan so I vote Tory" mentality, I can't say there's anyone better to vote for. The ignorant voters in this province still need to open their eyes and do their own political research but it's hard to tell people they should vote Michael Ignoratieff (not a typo). The Conservatives **** me off with their childish attack ads but they did raise one valid point about Michael Ignatieff's patriotism that I can't ignore.

Has reducing the GST done anything to help you, the average joe? Where does all the money come from when the Conservatives cut corporate taxes? You have a job right now don't you so don't give me that right-wing BS about creating jobs because it doesn't affect you. The Conservatives operate almost exclusively on the "I won't have to deal with the consequences in my lifetime" mentality. A token GST cut to appease the stupid consumers and corporate fat cats does nothing for the average middle class homeowner but increase the budget deficit. A 2% GST cut saves a person buying a $300 000 home $6000. $800 on a $40 000 truck. Things that the average person purchases with no regularity. Yet some rich lawyer buying up real estate or corporation dealing in millions of dollars daily gets massive discounts on their cost of doing business. People who can most afford to pay their taxes are the ones who get the biggest discounts under the Conservatives. Sounds just like the middle ages to me. Overtax the peasants while the nobility reap the rewards. Businesses can function fine when they pay the amount of taxes that they actually should be paying. Heaven forbid that CEO might make 10% less of his $5 million annual salary to pay a proper amount of taxes. Doesn't that just tear at your heart strings?

But I digress. This is the longest a minority government has ever lasted in Canada. It isn't that the Liberals keep forcing these elections, it's that Canadian voters can't make up their mind between two equally incompetent politicians.

[Ryry4]

While I would normally say that Albertans need to lose the brainless "I'm Albertan so I vote Tory" mentality, I can't say there's anyone better to vote for. The ignorant voters in this province still need to open their eyes and do their own political research but it's hard to tell people they should vote Michael Ignoratieff (not a typo). The Conservatives **** me off with their childish attack ads but they did raise one valid point about Michael Ignatieff's patriotism that I can't ignore.

Has reducing the GST done anything to help you, the average joe? Where does all the money come from when the Conservatives cut corporate taxes? You have a job right now don't you so don't give me that right-wing BS about creating jobs because it doesn't affect you. The Conservatives operate almost exclusively on the "I won't have to deal with the consequences in my lifetime" mentality. A token GST cut to appease the stupid consumers and corporate fat cats does nothing for the average middle class homeowner but increase the budget deficit. A 2% GST cut saves a person buying a $300 000 home $6000. $800 on a $40 000 truck. Things that the average person purchases with no regularity. Yet some rich lawyer buying up real estate or corporation dealing in millions of dollars daily gets massive discounts on their cost of doing business. People who can most afford to pay their taxes are the ones who get the biggest discounts under the Conservatives. Sounds just like the middle ages to me. Overtax the peasants while the nobility reap the rewards. Businesses can function fine when they pay the amount of taxes that they actually should be paying. Heaven forbid that CEO might make 10% less of his $5 million annual salary to pay a proper amount of taxes. Doesn't that just tear at your heart strings?

But I digress. This is the longest a minority government has ever lasted in Canada. It isn't that the Liberals keep forcing these elections, it's that Canadian voters can't make up their mind between two equally incompetent politicians.

Have you never seen a Liberal attach ad? I have. I've never quite figured out why so many people are mad about the 2% roll back on the GST. Would you be happy with a 5% increase in it, because I'm sure the Libs and NDP will do it. Another thing, life's not fair some people will have more money than the other and have more property and a bigger house. It doesn't bother me, it motivates me to work harder. I don't want to be a "overtaxed peasant" and I won't be. Unless the Libs/NDP get into power...

[demolition101]

One thing this country doesn't seem to realize is that every election costs the tax payers lots of money. The more election in a little time, the more money you pay. It sucks that Idiots like Taliban Jack Layton and Micheal Ignatiuff can't get off their high high horses and just accept that the country wants a minority Conservative government. My vote, Majority Conservative government. = lower taxes, deficit paid off faster, and all the things all the other party leaders promised; actually acted on, but when all of this countries problems are fixed. My two cents

[albertadave]

One thing this country doesn't seem to realize is that every election costs the tax payers lots of money. The more election in a little time, the more money you pay. It sucks that Idiots like Taliban Jack Layton and Micheal Ignatiuff can't get off their high high horses and just accept that the country wants a minority Conservative government. My vote, Majority Conservative government. = lower taxes, deficit paid off faster, and all the things all the other party leaders promised; actually acted on, but when all of this countries problems are fixed. My two cents

One article I read today said this one will cost $300million. Another said $400million.

[hal53]

Attack Ads disappoint you???...hahahahaha!!! the Liberals invented using them here under Chretien!!!!...WOW!!!!.....doesn't feel too good for the pigs at the trough to get painted with their own brush, I guess....much like the dreaded "hidden agenda"....you guys crack me up!..... thanks for the laugh....

[TreeGuy]

Don't pick on the weak Hal. Just makes you look like a bully. :lol:

[CNP]

the 2 party system is worse than what we have here , look at the state of the us right now and be glad we don't have a 2 party system.

The US is not limited to two parties. The Libertarian Party is the third largest political party in the US

How many parties have ever formed a government in Canda?

Two.

The NDP will never form a government....what is the point if not to win?

The Bloc should not be permitted as they are not loyal (to Canada).

The Green Party..........same as the NDP but even moreso.

There are more insignificant parties on the fringes too.....................waste of time to even mention their names.

All this to say there is nothing wrong with two major parties vying for the prize. We really are a two party country like it or not. Conservatives = varying intensities of light; Liberals = darkness; NDP = socialists screwing with our country.

[hal53]

Don't pick on the weak Hal. Just makes you look like a bully. :lol:


a thousand pardons...I didn't know that gunbearers weren't allowed in the main camp....:sHa_shakeshout:

[Cal]

Because here in Canada we have a political system that would work better as a game show than for trying to run a country and call it democracy.

[CNP]

While I would normally say that Albertans need to lose the brainless "I'm Albertan so I vote Tory" mentality, I can't say there's anyone better to vote for. The ignorant voters in this province still need to open their eyes and do their own political research but it's hard to tell people they should vote Michael Ignoratieff (not a typo). The Conservatives **** me off with their childish attack ads but they did raise one valid point about Michael Ignatieff's patriotism that I can't ignore.

Has reducing the GST done anything to help you, the average joe? Where does all the money come from when the Conservatives cut corporate taxes? You have a job right now don't you so don't give me that right-wing BS about creating jobs because it doesn't affect you. The Conservatives operate almost exclusively on the "I won't have to deal with the consequences in my lifetime" mentality. A token GST cut to appease the stupid consumers and corporate fat cats does nothing for the average middle class homeowner but increase the budget deficit. A 2% GST cut saves a person buying a $300 000 home $6000. $800 on a $40 000 truck. Things that the average person purchases with no regularity. Yet some rich lawyer buying up real estate or corporation dealing in millions of dollars daily gets massive discounts on their cost of doing business. People who can most afford to pay their taxes are the ones who get the biggest discounts under the Conservatives. Sounds just like the middle ages to me. Overtax the peasants while the nobility reap the rewards. Businesses can function fine when they pay the amount of taxes that they actually should be paying. Heaven forbid that CEO might make 10% less of his $5 million annual salary to pay a proper amount of taxes. Doesn't that just tear at your heart strings?

But I digress. This is the longest a minority government has ever lasted in Canada. It isn't that the Liberals keep forcing these elections, it's that Canadian voters can't make up their mind between two equally incompetent politicians.

Thats commie talk. Where does all the money come from when corporate taxes are cut? Money for what? Cut programs. Companies paying less tax will prosper, will come to Canda, will stay in Canda....creating more jobs....creating more taxable revenue.....that is not BS. If you feel overtaxed now, which you really shouldn't, you are not going to like a liberal governmnet or even worse a liberal giovernment influenced by the NDP. Everyone should vote for the party who promises the least. I hate politicians buying votes with social programs. Build a nation, not a support system for the gimmee crowd.

[220swifty]

ssyd,

Think about how much you spend on a yearly basis for your regular household expenses. Put 2 percent in your pocket. That equals an extra day on holidays for the family, another rifle in the cabinet (although I am guessing that is not important to you), or perhaps you can do that nagging repair on the house now.

Also have to give Harper credit on following through on another promise. If you recall, Chretien was initially elected on the promise to retool the GST, and the liberals went 13 years in power without doing anything of the sort. Harper made a promise to do it, and it was done fairly quickly after his election in 2006.

[yukon12]

We're in a bit of a quandary here. As long as the Bloc holds the balance of power in Quebec, the threat of Minority parliaments isn't going to go away. The new Canadian Reality. Free the West.:lol:

Grizz

You got my vote Grizz.

[hal53]

So... we're all singing from the same song sheet....we NEED a majority!!!...get rid of the registry...get rid of the stupid $2.00 per vote crap....that will finish the Bloc and possibly one other...and get on with running the country....without the nonsense we've dealt with for the last 5 years

[ssyd]

One thing this country doesn't seem to realize is that every election costs the tax payers lots of money. The more election in a little time, the more money you pay. It sucks that Idiots like Taliban Jack Layton and Micheal Ignatiuff can't get off their high high horses and just accept that the country wants a minority Conservative government. My vote, Majority Conservative government. = lower taxes, deficit paid off faster, and all the things all the other party leaders promised; actually acted on, but when all of this countries problems are fixed. My two cents

Get your facts straight. Conservatives create deficits and leave the debt for their children to pay off. Hence why people think the Liberals unduly tax citizens because they're having to correct the runaway debt that Conservatives rack up. Where do you think the money comes from when taxes are lowered? The country's demand for spending doesn't change. If you're not earning enough money then you must borrow it. When money is borrowed, interest is charged. But hey... Once I die I don't have to worry about repaying it, right?

I've had this discussion many times before in similar right-wing environments and every time I end up talking to a brick wall because Conservatives are just that - conservative. They are ignorant to all other points of view. I'm not well-informed enough to provide sufficiently strong evidence to overturn your set-in-stone opinions so I won't try to. I know and more importantly understand what my beliefs and values are and I vote according to them, not for the faces leading the parties or because that's the party everyone else around me votes for. There is no debate here, only Conservatives talking loudly over everyone else as usual.

Ehntr, go back to school. You must have failed sixth grade reading comprehension. You completely misunderstood everything I said.

Hal, I wasn't old enough to vote for Chretien and didn't know much about politics then. Regardless whether or not the Liberals invented Canadian attack ads, the Conservatives have certainly perfected them through continued reliance on them for their campaigns. I also love your redneck values that make the long gun registry the most important election issue to you. You assume I don't like guns or hunting because I'm not a right-wing redneck like you but the truth is I can't wait to get into hunting this fall.

Swifty, Chretien never lowered the GST because he realized that it would be a stupid thing to do. Sure he made an empty promise (like all politicians do) but at least he understood that it wasn't worth doing.

[TreeGuy]

Sure he made an empty promise (like all politicians do) but at least he understood that it wasn't worth doing.

Sorrta like Kyoto? :fighting0030:

[ssyd]

Sorrta like Kyoto? :fighting0030:
Since when do the Tories care about the environment? You can't use Kyoto to defend the Conservatives. A Conservative government never would have even considered the Kyoto accord.

That's actually one of the things that makes me chuckle. All the Conservatives here claim to be conservationists and love the outdoors yet they support the party that encourages industrial growth at the expense of ecological sustainability.

[TreeGuy]

Since when do the liberals care about the environment?

[ssyd]

Since when do the liberals care about the environment?

Great argument. You sir are the king of the mindless one-liner argument. Do some research and make an informed statement.

[TreeGuy]

Great argument. You sir are the king of the mindless one-liner argument. Do some research and make an informed statement.

Carefull what you ask for. :)

(Originally posted by SonnyD)

1. Cancelling the Sea King replacement
2. Sponsorship scandal
3. Gun Registry
4. HRDC boondoggle
5. Problems with Transition Job Funds program
6. Tainted blood
7. Radwanski Spending Affair
8. Pearson Airport
9. GST Flip Flop
10. Airbus Investigation
11. Voting against Red Book promise of independent Ethics Commissioner
12. Irving fishing lodge stays/travel on Irving jets for cabinet ministers
13. Martin traveling on private corporate jets as Finance Minister
14. Don Boudria’s stay at Boulay owned chalet
15. Denis Coderre staying with Boulay
16. Alfonso Gagliano being appointed Ambassador to Denmark
17. Shawinigate
18. Claude Gauthier (PM’s friend)’s Transelec getting CIDA grant that was questioned by the Auditor General and even CIDA.
19. Liberal fundraiser Pierre Corbeil charged with fraud by RCMP after he approached several Quebec companies seeking federal job training grants and asking for payments to Liberal Party, having gotten the names from senior Quebec Liberal Minister, Marcel Massé.
20. Michel Dupuy, Heritage Minister, lobbying the CRTC.
21. Tom Wappel refusing to help blind veteran
22. Gagliano’s son benefiting from contracts from his father’s department
23. Gagliano’s former speechwriter, Michèle Tremblay was on a $5,000 a month retainer with the Canada Lands Company to provide speeches for the Minister. Former President John Grant let her go saying “we got nothing in return.” Grant claimed that all Crown Corporations reporting to Mr. Gagliano were told to put Ms. Tremblay on a monthly retainer.
24. Iltis replacement
25. Purchase of new Challenger jets for the Prime Minister and cabinet
26. NATO Flying Training program contract
27. Liberal friends appointed as IRB judges being investigated by RCMP
28. Hedy Fry’s imaginary burning crosses
29. Maria Minna’s improper municipal vote
30. Minna giving contracts to two former campaign staffers for public relations work for a conference that had already been held
31. Lawrence MacAulay and contracts directed to Holland College
32. Lawrence MacAulay and Tim Banks
33. Lawrence MacAulay hired his official agent, Everett Roche, for $70K, but Roche never did any work for it. (Oct 2002)
34. Art Eggleton and contracts to his ex-girlfriend
35. Copps’ aide Boyer’s spending habits
36. Collenette resigns for breach of ethical guidelines involving a letter he wrote to the Immigration and Refugee Board
37. APEC Inquiry
38. Andy Scott's 1998 resignation that came eight weeks too late, after a media circus wore him down for indiscreetly shooting his mouth off on an airplane.
39. Anti-American comments by Liberal MPs, officials, and the former Minister of Natural Resources.
40. Rock and the Apotex/Cipro affair
41. Rock giving Health Canada contract to car cleaning company.
42. Manley lobbying CIBC on behalf of Rod Bryden
43. Manley’s fundraiser suggesting donors to his leadership write it off as a business expense.
44. Manley using his pre-budget consultations as Minister of Finance to solicit support for his leadership bid.
45. Coderre’s relationship with Group Everest
46. Martin’s fundraiser/employee of Finance Jim Palmer
47. Martin’s “blind trust” and his relationship with CSL.
48. Gerry Byrne requesting fundraising money be sent to his home address, with no records kept.
49. Gerry Byrne pouring bulk of ACOA money into his own riding.
50. Virginia Fontaine Addictions Foundation
51. Prime Minister’s former assistant, Denise Tremblay’s huge travel expenses on Veterans Review and Appeal Board as Minister pleaded poverty to veterans’ widows.
52. Chrétien appointing Hon. Roger Simmons (former Trudeau minister convicted of income tax evasion) as Consul-General in Seattle
53. Chrétien trying to bring hit-and-run driver Carignan back into caucus.
54. The RCMP is investigating possible fraud and bribery within Industry Canada, involving possible "overpayments" to recipients of federal business grants. The probe centres on the National Research Council, which hands out federal grants to small- and medium-sized businesses.
55. More than half a dozen bureaucrats have been "removed" from their jobs at a Human Resources Development Canada (HRDC) in Toronto following a police investigation into projects funded under one of the department's grants and contributions programs
56. Revenue Minister Elinor Caplan called in the RCMP and ordered a sweeping security review after four tax department computers were stolen containing confidential personal information on more than 120,000 Canadians.
57. More than $7 billion stashed in Foundations by Finance Minister Paul Martin with little or no accountability
58. Dhaliwal overseing Richmond-airport-Vancouver transit line while being owner of the airport limousine service
59. Tom Rosser, former Dhaliwal advisor lobbying Natural Resources department and minister on environmental issues only months after leaving government.
60. $5.3 million GG northern travel
61. GG budget doubles in 5 years
62. Robert Thibault giving a grant as ACOA minister to a wharf and boatyard where his brother-in-law has a monopoly.
63. Royal LePage contract, which the government was forced to cancel in the wake of serious concerns being raised.
64. Shutting down the Somalia Inquiry
65. Home heating rebate, which was sent to prisoners and deceased.
66. Martin firing Bernard Dussault, Chief Actuary of CPP
67. Ethel Blondin-Andrew buys fur coat on government credit card
68. Chrétien’s imaginary homeless friend.
69. Liberal MP Rick Laliberte’s extensive travel budget
70. Liberal Senator Thompson living in Mexico
71. Vendetta against former BDC President François Beaudoin
72. The flag give-away – which estimates suggest might now have cost $45 million instead of the promised $6 million, and reportedly involved fake invoices.
73. Gagliano’s two week trip, at taxpayers’ expense, for a two day event with the head of the Royal Canadian Mint and Maurizio Caruso.
74. Secretary of State for multiculturalism and status of women Sheila Finestone using government car (which junior ministers are only allowed to use for government business) to drive home to Montreal, which even Sheila Copps criticized. (Ottawa Citizen, May 22, 1994)
75. Liberal MP Jag Bhaduria’s hate mail to his former employers, wishing that they had been shot by killer Marc Lepine
76. Liberal MP Jag Bhaduria making false claims about his academic qualifications.
77. Paul Martin and Maria Minna attending fundraising dinner for group linked to Tamil Tigers in May 2000 (National Post, Sept. 8th, 2001).
78. David Anderson, as National Revenue Minister, suing the government for lost wages after being removed as IRB appointee by Conservative government seeking $454,000 from a deficit-ravaged federal treasury. (Vancouver Sun, July 24, 2004). Anderson eventually agreed to drop the suit.
79. David Anderson suggesting that the BC doesn’t need extra House of Commons seats, because they wouldn't be worth much given the poor quality of most West Coast MPs. (Vancouver Sun, July 24, 2004)
80. A consultant on an executive interchange program persuaded Natural Resources to undertake a $700-million reorganization of its research facilities for which no business case had been made. The program was fast-tracked because he had developed a social relationship with the deputy minister. He was eventually charged with diverting $525,000 to a numbered company he controlled. (Globe and Mail, May 30, 2005)

And the list continues under Prime Minister Martin:

81. Raid on reporter Juliet O’Neill’s home by RCMP
82. Permanent Resident Cards
83. Judy Sgro going on vacation as cards became mandatory and landed immigrants were left stranded
84. Minister Frulla’s renovations
85. Pay raises for chiefs-of-staff in ministers offices, while spending is frozen for public service.
86. The government’s changing numbers on how much money has gone to CSL
87. Lobbyists in Paul Martin’s transition team being allowed to return to lobbying immediately, after being involved in process of picking new cabinet and senior staff.
88. Minister Comuzzi’s anti-Quebec comments
89. Martin government using closure after only six days in the House of Commons, followed by using time allocation in the Senate.
90. Problems with DND’s contracts with Compaq Computers that may have cost taxpayers up to $159 million for work not performed.
91. Martin using government jets to tour the country campaigning before election, spending up to $1 million for air travel alone.
92. Martin’s relationship with Earnscliffe
93. Questionable contracts to Earnscliffe
94. The appointment of former Liberal MLA Howard Sapers as the Correctional Investigator of Canada
95. Pierre Pettigrew’s flip flopping on health care
96. David Dingwall’s expenses as head of Royal Canadian Mint
97. Liberals planning to give David Dingwall a severance package after he resigned
98. The secret National Unity Fund reserve
99. Calling an early election after earlier promising first to get to the bottom of the sponsorship scandal
100. Martin suggesting changes to legislation and introducing bill that benefited CSL, despite concerns from his own Deputy Minister that he was in a conflict-of-interest (Ottawa Citizen, May 26, 2004)
101. $99 million Public Works contract that went to company overseen by Liberal fundraiser and future Senator Paul Massicotte (Montreal Gazette, June 26, 2004)
102. Parliamentary Secretary Dan McTeague’s 3-person, $224 trip to a Pizzeria
103. Immigration Minister Judy Sgro’s staff being allowed to stay on “extended travel” benefits, letting them bill taxpayers’ for thousands of dollars in hotel rooms and meals, because they didn’t want to move from Toronto to Ottawa until after the election.
104. Correctional Service of Canada Commissioner Lucie McClung’s travel expenses
105. Contracting irregularities on more than two dozen projects at DND worth tens of millions of dollars, showing over-billing, profit excesses, unauthorized additional work, lack of accounting records, spiralling cost overruns, etc. (Globe and Mail, July 14, 2004).
106. ACOA Minister Joe McGuire canceling ACOA loan and grant to ABL Industries Inc. because it would compete with company in his riding. (Fredericton Daily Gleaner, July 17, 2004).
107. Andy Mitchell’s chief of staff’s $22,000 in expenses to commute to Ottawa (Toronto Star, August 2, 2004).
108. André Ouellet’s travel and hospitality expenses at Canada Post.
109. Government delaying release of audit on Ouellet until after the election (Globe and Mail, July 31, 2004).
110. Martin’s principle secretary Francis Fox’s sister getting untendered contracts (The Province, July 27, 2004).
111. Continuing problems in advertising files at Public Works (Ottawa Sun, July 26, 2004).
112. A Liberal Party of Canada fundraising letter signed by Paul Martin, asking potential contributors to offer $7,000, $7,100 or $7,200 in contributions – far in excess of donation limits passed by the very same Liberal government
113. Liberal Senator Raymond Lavigne violating municipal bylaws. Municipality pursuing legal action against him. (Ottawa Citizen, August 19, 2004).
114. Spa Days for inmates approved by the Correctional Service of Canada, which on Aug. 21 invited inmates at the Grand Valley Institution for Women in Kitchener, Ont., to dabble with manicures, pedicures and aromatherapy, not to mention cups of tea served in fine china, all accompanied by a harp serenade. (National Post, September 9, 2004).
115. Five employees in the ''overwhelmed'' immigration section of Canada's embassy in Iran have been fired over the past year after they each were caught breaching federal ethics rules (National Post, September 13, 2004).
116. Questionable contracts and spending from the Canada Investment and Savings group set up by Martin in 1996 (Globe and Mail, September 13, 2004)
117. Questionable contracting practices at Canada Information Office (The Hill Times, September 13, 2004).
118. A top Canadian diplomat based in China has resigned amid reports he is being investigated for allegedly taking bribes to help Chinese nationals enter Canada illegally. (Vancouver Sun, September 22, 2004).
119. Abuse of government credit cards by staff at Fisheries Department (CP Wire, September 24, 2004).
120. Canada’s questionable hiring of the niece of Syria's foreign affairs minister to work at the embassy in Damascus (Globe and Mail, October 5, 2004)
121. Hélène Scherrer using Challenger to fly to Banff during election to give partisan speech
122. Abuse of Challengers by Paul Martin and various ministers (eg. Andy Mitchell, Claudette Bradshaw)
123. Abuse of Challenger jets for political business instead of government business (Le Devoir, October 4, 2005)
124. Paul Martin taking Challenger jets to Liberal fundraisers
125. Challenger food bill of $508 per flight
126. Expenses during election filed by aide to Ralph Goodale
127. Questionable expenses during election filed by aides to Judy Sgro
128. Ongoing problems and safety concerns with the submarine program
129. Various federal departments reported in excess of $1.1 million in theft of computers in 2003, but the information is potentially more valuable than the hardware (Vancouver Sun, October 14, 2004).
130. According to the latest public-accounts-of-Canada reports for the period March 2004 and March 2005, over 700 laptops, desktops and central processing units went missing from 35 federal government agencies -- worth $6 million. (The Province, October 19, 2005)
131. Federal government has lost track of $587 million a year in EI overpayments and underpayments at the Department of Human Resources. (Ottawa Citizen, October 12, 2004). However, the government defends itself by stating that in fact it has only lost track of $25 million a year and collects the other overpayments. (Ottawa Citizen, October 13, 2004)
132. $133,000 grant to a Toronto film company that used classified ads to search for the "perfect" penis. (National Post, October 14, 2004).
133. Man convicted of fraud against government hired to teach ethics course to public servants (National Post, October 20, 2004).
134. Public Works selling confiscated grow-op equipment to drug traffickers. (National Post, October 21, 2004).
135. Pressure by Liberal MPs and ministers on ACOA to make funding decisions based on politics (New Brunswick Telegraph Journal, October 25, 2004).
136. Paul Martin’s Director of Communications Scott Reid insulting Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador (Toronto Star, October 28, 2004)
137. The Martin government spent $127,223 on a poll last February testing ways to diffuse negative reaction to the bombshell auditor-general's report -- which included the finding the Liberals ignored their own rules prohibiting the use of tax dollars on partisan polls (Vancouver Sun, November 8, 2004).
138. Judy Sgro’s campaign volunteer (a stripper) getting ministerial permit
139. Sgro’s senior policy advisor going to strip club to meet with owner to discuss bringing more strippers into Canada. (National Post, November 25, 2004). Subsequent revelations indicate that he went to at least one other strip club to conduct similar meetings (Toronto Sun, December 7, 2004)
140. Sgro giving out details of private immigration files, violating Privacy Act
141. Allegations that Sgro broke the elections law in failing to properly identify the source of a campaign contribution. (Toronto Star, December 8, 2004).
142. Revelations that the program to bring in foreign exotic dancers was created under pressure from organized crime (National Post, December 18, 2004)
143. Irwin Cotler appointing his former chief-of-staff to federal court (National Post, November 23, 2004).
144. Heritage Minister Liza Frulla giving grant to magazine that put her on the cover and made her honourary president (Ottawa Citizen, November 25, 2004)
145. Despite promising an end to cronyism and patronage, Martin appointing Liberal MP John Harvard as Lt-Governor of Manitoba, in order to get him to step aside for “star” candidate Glen Murray.
146. Despite promising an end to cronyism and patronage, Martin appointing Liberal MP Yvon Charbonneau to UNESCO, in order to get him to step aside for Martin crony Pablo Rodriguez.
147. Despite promising an end to cronyism and patronage, Martin appointing former Liberal MP Karen Kraft-Sloan as Ambassador for the Environment. (Department of Foreign Affairs Press Release, February 16, 2005).
148. Despite promising an end to cronyism and patronage, Martin appointing defeated Liberal candidate Dave Haggard as the chair of a newly created Advisory Committee on Apprenticeship. (OIC 2005-0001)
149. Despite promising an end to cronyism and patronage, Martin appointed his friend Dennis Dawson to the Senate
150. Despite promising an end to cronyism and patronage, Martin appointed his former Principal Secretary Francis Fox to the Senate
151. Despite promising an end to cronyism and patronage, Martin appointed disgraced former cabinet minister Art Eggleton to the Senate
152. Martin and his wife complaining about having to live in 24 Sussex (Edmonton Journal, November 17, 2004)
153. Millennium Bureau spending done with same lack of controls and oversight of sponsorship program
154. The RCMP has charged a senior Immigration Canada manager and four accomplices in an alleged bribes-for-status scheme in which Arab immigrants paid up to $25,000 to have their claims fast-tracked and approved (National Post, December 17, 2004)
155. Making widows of RCMP officers killed in the line of duty pay for their husbands’ funerals (Under pressure from the Conservative Party, the government reversed this policy)
156. Martin patronage-appointee Jim Walsh breaking ethics guidelines and attending Liberal Christmas Party (St. John’s Telegram, January 20, 2005).
157. Port authority losing more than $60,000 in public funds on the stock market. When Central Cape Breton Community Ventures took over the port in Iona in 2000, the private agency deposited only $5,000 of the $245,000 it received from Transport Canada into a designated bank account. The federal funding was meant to cover the port's maintenance, insurance and professional services costs (Chronicle-Herald, January 31, 2005).
158. Canadian flag lapel pins being made in China. Only under pressure, Scott Brison flip flops and agrees to have them made in Canada again.
159. Questionable dealings around the privatization of the Digby Wharf, which even Liberal MP Robert Thibault wants the RCMP to investigate (Chronicle-Herald, February 10, 2005).
160. Adrienne Clarkson spending $17,500 to evaluate cleaning at Rideau Hall (Ottawa Sun, February 19, 2005)
161. Martin patronage appointee Glen Murray breaking ethics guidelines and attending Liberal Convention as delegate
162. Martin ignoring parliamentary committee and appointing Glen Murray as chair of the National Round Table on the Environment and the Economy
163. Marlene Jennings, the Parliamentary Secretary for Canada-U.S. relations, making anti-American remarks
164. Government knowing about details of torture and murder of Zahra Kazemi back in November and still sending ambassador back to Iran
165. Government knowing about details of torture and murder of Zahra Kazemi back in November but doing nothing
166. Tens of thousands of dollars were spent on questionable acquisitions at CFB Borden (Ottawa Sun, April 18, 2005).
167. Joe Volpe keeping stripper visa program operating, despite having promised to shut it down (CTV.ca, March 5, 2005)
168. Jean Lapierre acting as lobbyist without registering
169. Joe Volpe trying to intimidating Sikh community
170. In the spring of 2003, the RCMP investigated allegations that Liberal MP Gurbax Malhi had requested favours and financial support for Paul Martin's 2003 leadership campaign in exchange for helping Indian nationals get these temporary resident permits (Globe and Mail, March 10, 2005).
171. Liberals spending $443,237 to change the name Passport Office to Passport Canada (Montreal Gazette, April 21, 2005).
172. Ken Dryden’s chief of staff charged with careless driving (Ottawa Citizen, March 22, 2005)
173. Liberals trying to buy off Conservative MPs with offers of patronage positions
174. Liberals handling of the submarine program
175. Public Service Integrity Officer’s travel expenses (Ottawa Sun, May 4, 2005)
176. Liberal Senator Michel Biron going to hearing to support killer Karla Homolka (CTV News, June 9, 2005)
177. Public Works contract watchdog Consulting and Audit Canada violating contracting rules (Toronto Star, July 4, 2005)
178. Technology Partnerships Canada rules being violated to pay lobbyists (Globe and Mail, June 24, 2005)
179. Former Indian and Northern Affairs Minister Robert Nault is working as a paid lobbyist for Nelson House First Nation in what some allege is an apparent violation of a federal code of conduct. Among the federal departments Nault is lobbying is the Indian and Northern Affairs department he headed until December 2003, according to a lobbying report Nault filed with the federal government. Nault registered as a lobbyist for Nelson House, now known as Nisichawayasihk Cree Nation, on July 18, 2005 -- one year and seven months after leaving his cabinet post. Under the Conflict of Interest and Post-Employment Code for Public Office Holders, Nault is barred from working for any entity with which his department had "direct and significant official dealings" for two years after leaving office. He is also barred for two years from lobbying his former department or any of his former cabinet colleagues (Winnipeg Free Press, September 14, 2005)
180. According to documents obtained by the Globe and Mail, Pierre Pettigrew billed Canadian taxpayers for $10,000 for trips for his driver in 2001 and 2002. Pettigrew took his driver to South America and Europe, even though the driver didn’t do any driving on the trips. (Globe and Mail, September 14, 2005)
181. Joe Volpe’s questionable hospitality expenses (Globe and Mail, September 21, 2005)
182. According to media reports, Industry Canada has frozen federal financing for research projects by an Ontario biotechnology firm pending the outcome of an investigation into the company's agreement to pay $350,000 in lobbying “success” fees to former Liberal cabinet minister David Dingwall. Such contingency fee payments violate Technology Partnership Canada rules. (Globe and Mail, September 23, 2005)
183. Expenses of chairman of the Royal Canadian Mint Emmanuel Triassi, who also approved David Dingwall’s expenses (Globe and Mail, October 4, 2005)
184. Last week, Public Works was also silent on details of another case involving forensic accounting. Government accounts published on Thursday showed a department employee had embezzled $3.45 million from Public Works office in Koblenz, Germany. Even though the employee was convicted and jailed in Germany, Public Works will not name him or give any details of the crime (Ottawa Citizen, October 4, 2005)
185. The federal government inadvertently revealed yesterday that it is conducting a large-scale forensic accounting probe into "possibly criminal matters" when it published details of a contract intended for a Quebec accounting firm. The notice awarding a $2-million contract for forensic accounting services was published on the government's tendering website, MERX. It gave notice that Consulting and Audit Canada was planning to award the sole-source contract to Leclerc Juricomptable, a Quebec City firm specializing in forensic work and litigation support. The contract award notice said the work had to be sole-sourced to Leclerc because it is "not in the public interest to jeopardize the current investment in the investigation or to significantly increase the risk to a successful completion of the investigation into possibly criminal matters." A spokesman for the Department of PublicWorks and Government Services said yesterday that the notice was published "prematurely" and would be withdrawn last night. He could not say, however, what is under investigation, but said the contract was not tied to another scandal that has kept Quebec forensic accountants busy over the past years. "It's not related to sponsorship or Gomery, that I can tell you," said spokesman Pierre Teotonio (Ottawa Citizen, October 4, 2005). It was subsequently revealed that the department involved was CIDA (CP Wire, October 4, 2005)
186. Questions about campaign funds from Raymond Chan’s campaign going to his companies (Vancouver Sun, October 7, 2005)
187. Questions about a possible conflict-of-interest between Chan’s activities as minister on behalf of possible business associates (Vancouver Sun, October 7, 2005)
188. Questions about the report that Chan filed with the Ethics Commissioner (Vancouver Sun, October 7, 2005)
189. Government giving out contract that specifies no paper trail to be left in government offices (Vancouver Province, October 11, 2005)
190. Questionable travel expenses at the Department of Fisheries and Oceans (CP, October 16, 2005)
191. Two employees at DFO fired for making fraudulent travel claims (CP, The Province, October 18, 2005).
192. Lobbyist registrar Michael Nelson has launched investigations of four people for eight possible breaches of the ethics guidelines for lobbyists, the first such investigations ever launched under the code. (Globe and Mail, October 18, 2005)
193. According to media reports, the federal government has terminated two contracts with a consulting firm that used to be run by Liberal MP David Smith and now run by his wife, following a forensic audit of the contracting practices at a federal agency (Globe and Mail, October 19, 2005)
194. ATI requests by prisoners for information on prison system and guards, when information is actually disclosed
195. Liberal candidate Richard Mahoney lobbying for satellite radio company for a month before registering (Ottawa Citizen, October 19, 2005)
196. Delays and ballooning costs mean a giant software project at National Defence will eclipse its original budget and won't meet its goals until 2011 -- if at all. An internal audit obtained by Canadian Press raises red flags about a new system designed to streamline computer tracking of military inventory and purchases. MASIS -- or Materiel Acquisition Support Information System -- started in 1997 as a $147-million undertaking. What began as a focused effort to cover a single equipment category in each of the navy, army and air force soon mushroomed. By 2003, Defence officials estimated MASIS would be in place by 2006 at a cost of $325 million, more than twice its forecast budget. A full introduction of the complex software has now been extended to 2011. The heavily censored May 2005 internal audit, released under the Access to Information Act, catalogues a litany of "revised planned milestones.'' "The prime contract has been amended six times, each time increasing amounts for professional service fees,'' it says. (CP, The Record, October 24, 2005)
197. Hospitality and travel expenses of executives at CMHC (Journal de Montréal, October 24, 2005)
198. Questions about Squamish land deal lease (The Province, October 26, 2005)
199. Liberals handling of tainted water at Kashechewan First Nation

[hal53]

^^^^ well then ...I rest my case...in over 150 items there...never once did a flunkie alter a document or use the wrong letter head!!!! guess we know the Libs have a halo around them....geez!!!! and all this time I thought our economy was strong and doing the best in the world, post recession....silly me!!!! BTW SSYD......wake up!!!!!

[Cal]

It realy doesnt matter who is in power, as long as we have a system where the people that we vote to represent us are instead forced to cast their vote with the party leader things will not get better. The only way of imposing checks and balances into this weird @$$ joke we eroniously call a democracy is a minority government which does not work. So take your pick, an unstable government or a voted in quasi-dictatorship either way we get bent over.

[hal53]

yeah, you're right...I got accused earlier of only wanting the gun registry gone....yah know what ?...the guy was right...that's all we'll get out of a majority... but...it's something....pretty sad when a clown comes back after 30+ plus years and can whip his MP's to vote against their and their constiuents wishes???....over something that he's pandering votes for??? welcome to Canada eh!!!....we have 2 choices here.....Harper...who is the envy of the free world now , with his policies...or Iggy....you guys and gals decide...should you choose to vote for a fringe party....that is undeniably your right....but..... as I've stated before....we have one last chance.......

[220swifty]

SSYD,

I am more than a one issue voter, I am also a taxpayer and a hard working family man who puts in everything i can to get my family ahead in this world. This makes it pretty important to me to have a say in who is spending my taxes.

Why would I elect a government that wants to up taxes so that they can spend us out of a recession? (seems to be working great south of the border)


Why would I want to replace a government that has helped Canada weather a global recession better than the rest of the G7 nations?

Canada's 2008-2009 recession was “less severe and shorter” than in other G7 nations, said Philip Cross, chief economic analyst at Statistics Canada and author of its year-end review.


Why would I not want to elect a government that knows how to spend it's defence budget? (New F-35's, and a military that is being re-equipped for viable operations vs decrepit and unuseable british submarines, and sea king helicopters that fall out of the sky)


Seems to me there is really only one choice for the critical, logical thinking person. Oh yeah, it would be nice to be rid of that pesky gun registry too.

[AB2506]

I'm only 23 so politics has only been my interest for a short time.i know elections are supposed to happen every 4 years or so. How bad have the conservatives been in the last few years. I mean it can't be any worse than introducing the gst. This isn't wHining just wondering.

Hunger for power. Nobody seems to want to work together for the betterment of the country, they all want to be boss. There is no need for an election, but this is what happens when there is a minority government. Hopefully the Conservatives come out with a majority.

[Redfrog]

SSYD, I think Trudeau was a Lieberal. Google and see what the national debt was when he came to office and when he left, then tell us again how the Conservatives rack up bills for our kids and grand kids to pay.

[eastcoast]

SSYD, I think Trudeau was a Lieberal. Google and see what the national debt was when he came to office and when he left, then tell us again how the Conservatives rack up bills for our kids and grand kids to pay.

or you could look up mulroney and save yourself the time,or reaghan, or george w bush, the facts are not behind you both parties like taxes and raising them, the only difference between them is how they spend your money.

[KegRiver]

Hate to tell you this fellas, but trying to debate with a Liberal is a total waste of time and energy. They aren't capable of reason.

The facts speak for themselves, but as I just discovered, ( well to tell the truth I had kinda known all along) that Liberals make up their own facts.

Some of you have seen and even participated in a thread I started concerning Harper being banned from running. Turns out it was Liberals making things up, but the fellow, an older man, who originally put up that link, maintains that it is fact despite overwhelming evidence that it is cow patties.

Sad thing is, such people are becoming all to common in our society. What a lovely education system we have.



When I was a kid, I was a Canadian. I felt like a Canadian and was treated like a Canadian by everyone I met from coast to coast.
Not so today. Those who identify themselves as Liberals treat me like an unwelcome intruder in the country I and my father were born in, and many of those Liberals are recent immigrants to this country.
I watched this take root and grow in the Liberal Party of Canada and I am sad to say I can see only one remedy. Separation.

We can hope that Harper turns this around, but I believe that there is 0 chance that can happen. Lets face it, Liberals outnumber all other ideologies in this country. Even with that i would rather grin and bear it rather then see Canada break up. However, the reality is that sooner or late Quebec will make that happen and we will be blamed. It is the Liberal way.

Why stay with a sinking ship when we know that it will take us down with it?

Better to loose a leg then to die from gangrene.

[KegRiver]

or you could look up mulroney and save yourself the time,or reaghan, or george w bush, the facts are not behind you both parties like taxes and raising them, the only difference between them is how they spend your money.

There you go, a perfect example of Liberal debating.
The comment was about the deficit, IE borrowing and this Liberal argues that all parties like taxes.

See what I mean. A total waste of time.

[HunterDave]

Get your facts straight. Conservatives create deficits and leave the debt for their children to pay off. Hence why people think the Liberals unduly tax citizens because they're having to correct the runaway debt that Conservatives rack up. Where do you think the money comes from when taxes are lowered? The country's demand for spending doesn't change. If you're not earning enough money then you must borrow it. When money is borrowed, interest is charged. But hey... Once I die I don't have to worry about repaying it, right?

For you to state something like that I'm thinking that you are young and you didn't live through the years that the Liberals were in power. They absolutely raped us while everyday we read about another scandal or over spending controversy in the newspaper. I was unlucky enough to have been in the military during that time so I had the opportunity to get raped "on the job" and then again when I got home as a regular citizen.

As for the country's demand for spending not changing...........It does change and it costs money to correct years of neglect under the Liberals. You can't let a country crumble at the expense of being able to say that we have little debt. If so, let's just put a freeze on all infrastructure and health care spending and reduce the budget for our military until the helicopters start falling out of the sky...............oh wait, THAT'S what the Liberals did but only after they had to because they dug us so deep in debt!!!!

[Redfrog]

or you could look up mulroney and save yourself the time,or reaghan, or george w bush, the facts are not behind you both parties like taxes and raising them, the only difference between them is how they spend your money.


I didn't say Mulroney. I also didn't say Reagan and Bush, or Pol Pot or Mao, becasue SSYD was talking about Conservatives.

"Conservatives create deficits and leave the debt for their children to pay off. Hence why people think the Liberals unduly tax citizens because they're having to correct the runaway debt that Conservatives rack up."

Maybe this will help.

"Over 16 years with Trudeau as prime minister, Canada's national debt skyrocketed by 1,200 per cent, from $17 billion to more than $200 billion"

[fishnut9]

I didn't say Mulroney. I also didn't say Reagan and Bush, or Pol Pot or Mao, becasue SSYD was talking about Conservatives.

"Conservatives create deficits and leave the debt for their children to pay off. Hence why people think the Liberals unduly tax citizens because they're having to correct the runaway debt that Conservatives rack up."

Maybe this will help.

"Over 16 years with Trudeau as prime minister, Canada's national debt skyrocketed by 1,200 per cent, from $17 billion to more than $200 billion"

The only reason liberals don't cause alot of debt is when they get close to debt they invent taxes. Remember the gst. Why can't people just play fair. Stop the lies and accept a loss.

[220swifty]

The only reason liberals don't cause alot of debt is when they get close to debt they invent taxes. Remember the gst. Why can't people just play fair. Stop the lies and accept a loss.

Mulroney brought in the GST, and he was a Conservative. (old PC party) It was because of that bonehead move whe had to live with liberals for so long.

Liberals have a habit of driving up taxes because they think that they are smarter with our money than we are, conservatives tend to keep the taxes lower and let us fend for ourselves. Unfortunately, so many Canadians have been bottle fed for so long, that in order to pry that nipple from their collective mouths, it has been a 4 election weaning process, so far. :angry3:

[Okotokian]

I didn't say Mulroney. I also didn't say Reagan and Bush, or Pol Pot or Mao, becasue SSYD was talking about Conservatives.

"Conservatives create deficits and leave the debt for their children to pay off. Hence why people think the Liberals unduly tax citizens because they're having to correct the runaway debt that Conservatives rack up."

Maybe this will help.

"Over 16 years with Trudeau as prime minister, Canada's national debt skyrocketed by 1,200 per cent, from $17 billion to more than $200 billion"

Red, perhaps I'm wrong and have been reading Liberal lies, but I was under the impression the current Conservative government has been running KINGSIZE deficits of massive proportions. Please tell me that's not true.... ;)

My friend, they are ALL the same. Bribe you with your own money. Only difference is what they spend it on. Harper's thrwowing cash so fast out the window it's making my head spin. "Canada's Economic Action Plan"? HA I vacationed in the Maritimes last summer and drove by one of those signs every five minutes. Should have read "Steven's Vote Buying Plan".

[Ryry4]

Red, perhaps I'm wrong and have been reading Liberal lies, but I was under the impression the current Conservative government has been running KINGSIZE deficits of massive proportions. Please tell me that's not true.... ;)

My friend, they are ALL the same. Bribe you with your own money. Only difference is what they spend it on. Harper's thrwowing cash so fast out the window it's making my head spin. "Canada's Economic Action Plan"? HA I vacationed in the Maritimes last summer and drove by one of those signs every five minutes. Should have read "Steven's Vote Buying Plan".

Can you imagine the outcry from Iggy and Taliban Jack if he wouldn't have come up with some plan? Or let the auto sector got broke, like he should have? He put that plan into place to shut those two yahoos up and get back to trying to run a country.

[Ryry4]

Here's a question to all who like high taxes, both personal and business. Which one fuels entrepreneurship and business growth (jobs etc)?

When taxes are at a higher level people tend to spend less and businesses tend to not expand. I prefer lower taxes, a healthy economy and being able to live my life and take care of myself.

[Okotokian]

Can you imagine the outcry from Iggy and Taliban Jack if he wouldn't have come up with some plan? Or let the auto sector got broke, like he should have? He put that plan into place to shut those two yahoos up and get back to trying to run a country.

Well if he just does what they tell him to, might as well vote for the real guys in power. You are probably too young to remember this, but your explanation sounds suspiciously like John Turner's "I had no choice" plea in his debate with Mulroney.

[Ryry4]

Well if he just does what they tell him to, might as well vote for the real guys in power. You are probably too young to remember this, but your explanation sounds suspiciously like John Turner's "I had no choice" plea in his debate with Mulroney.

Just another reason to get a majority. Unfortunately with a minority in this country not much gets done. I personally wouldn't have thrown the money around that he did with that plan. We need to learn that in times of hardship you need to be wise with your money, tighten up your spending and hold on for the ride. Not throw as much money around as possible.

Here's hoping Iggy is 2011's version of John Turner.

[Redfrog]

"My friend, they are ALL the same. Bribe you with your own money. Only difference is what they spend it on."

Women right? You're talking about women.:thinking-006:

Harper is running a deficit now, but I seem to remember reading that the DEBT was being paid down IIRC. If I get a chance I'll search for it.

It may come down to who manages the line of credit the best. There are times when a deficit is necessary, but not one gov't that I remember ever got that debt paid off. The service charges are just stupid.

Problem is it won't change I expect, as society will not go back to the 900 sq foot house. a couple kids sharing a bedroom and one TV.

The hole will just get bigger till the country falls into it. I guess we will have to settle for a slow death.

[eastcoast]

There you go, a perfect example of Liberal debating.
The comment was about the deficit, IE borrowing and this Liberal argues that all parties like taxes.

See what I mean. A total waste of time.

no it's called being fair, if you are going to use someone as your example then others will use different ones for theirs,sure trudeau added debt but so did mulroney and harper, infact in the last 40 years the only canadian government to reduce the debt was chretien should I use that as an argument for ifnatief?trudeau is dead and chretien is retired they have nothing to do with whats going on now stop trying to link them together.

[Redfrog]

"trudeau is dead get over it let it go"

BRILLIANT!!! here's news flash this just in........So is Reagan and Bush is retired. And BTW they are Americans.:sign0161:

[hal53]

no it's called being fair, if you are going to use someone as your example then others will use different ones for theirs,sure trudeau added debt but so did mulroney and harper, infact in the last 40 years the only canadian government to reduce the debt was chretien should I use that as an argument for ifnatief?trudeau is dead and chretien is retired they have nothing to do with whats going on now stop trying to link them together.
are the guys here typing too fast for you East??????

[eastcoast]

are the guys here typing too fast for you East??????yes actually I had surgery today on my shoulder, and am in a sling:angry3:

[Redfrog]

Great! I suppose you'll be around all summer now.:sign0176:
I really hope you get well soon.:) I really do.:)

[eastcoast]

Great! I suppose you'll be around all summer now.:sign0176:
I really hope you get well soon.:) I really do.:)

probably.

yu love guys like me cause without me there would be no boogeyman, and if everyone agreed all the time this place would be pretty boring.

[Albertadiver]

This thread is useless without having a mojito first.

[Redfrog]

probably.

yu love guys like me cause without me there would be no boogeyman, and if everyone agreed all the time this place would be pretty boring.

Yeah that's it. This place was DULLLLLLLL before Aug 2010. It is a Gala since you arrived.:snapoutofit:

BTW the boogeyman checks under his bed for me.:shark:

[CNP]

Get your facts straight. Conservatives create deficits and leave the debt for their children to pay off. Hence why people think the Liberals unduly tax citizens because they're having to correct the runaway debt that Conservatives rack up. Where do you think the money comes from when taxes are lowered? The country's demand for spending doesn't change. If you're not earning enough money then you must borrow it. When money is borrowed, interest is charged. But hey... Once I die I don't have to worry about repaying it, right?

I've had this discussion many times before in similar right-wing environments and every time I end up talking to a brick wall because Conservatives are just that - conservative. They are ignorant to all other points of view. I'm not well-informed enough to provide sufficiently strong evidence to overturn your set-in-stone opinions so I won't try to. I know and more importantly understand what my beliefs and values are and I vote according to them, not for the faces leading the parties or because that's the party everyone else around me votes for. There is no debate here, only Conservatives talking loudly over everyone else as usual.

Ehntr, go back to school. You must have failed sixth grade reading comprehension. You completely misunderstood everything I said.

Hal, I wasn't old enough to vote for Chretien and didn't know much about politics then. Regardless whether or not the Liberals invented Canadian attack ads, the Conservatives have certainly perfected them through continued reliance on them for their campaigns. I also love your redneck values that make the long gun registry the most important election issue to you. You assume I don't like guns or hunting because I'm not a right-wing redneck like you but the truth is I can't wait to get into hunting this fall.

Swifty, Chretien never lowered the GST because he realized that it would be a stupid thing to do. Sure he made an empty promise (like all politicians do) but at least he understood that it wasn't worth doing.

Listen Son...... I completely understood everything you said. Maybe you don't comprehend your own words....go back and read your socialist manifesto again. When you grow up you'll know the truth. I'm going to ruin your whole day by telling you............. there is no Santa Clause delivering free presents. There is no free stuff. Cutting taxes is good.......cutting socialist programs to balance the loss in revenue is even better. You'll be a stronger man for it some day..........maybe.

[fishnut9]

Mulroney brought in the GST, and he was a Conservative. (old PC party) It was because of that bonehead move whe had to live with liberals for so long.

Liberals have a habit of driving up taxes because they think that they are smarter with our money than we are, conservatives tend to keep the taxes lower and let us fend for ourselves. Unfortunately, so many Canadians have been bottle fed for so long, that in order to pry that nipple from their collective mouths, it has been a 4 election weaning process, so far. :angry3:

Fending for ourselves wouldn't be so hard if we weren't taxed to hell as well

[HunterDave]

Fending for ourselves wouldn't be so hard if we weren't taxed to hell as well

Let the Liberals get in and you'll find all about getting taxed to hell and fending for yourself! :lol:

Why is it that you young fellas won't believe what us old fellas are telling you about the Liberals? We lived through it..........believe it when we tell you that it won't be pleasant...........we're not just saying it because. You might glamorize change and all of that good stuff but you ought to listen to the people that have been there..........no one is trying to fool you........you would not enjoy a Liberal government!

[fishnut9]

Let the Liberals get in and you'll find all about getting taxed to hell and fending for yourself! :lol:

Why is it that you young fellas won't believe what us old fellas are telling you about the Liberals? We lived through it..........believe it when we tell you that it won't be pleasant...........we're not just saying it because. You might glamorize change and all of that good stuff but you ought to listen to the people that have been there..........no one is trying to fool you........you would not enjoy a Liberal government!

Thats what im saying though. I hate the liberals they are a bunch of bleeding heart idiots. I find it so odd that the liberals are acting more conservative while the conservatives are making good changes. The roles have been switched. Im definitely for the conservatives.

[Racer31]

[QUOTE=ssyd;886785]

Ehntr, go back to school. You must have failed sixth grade reading comprehension.
Hal, I wasn't old enough to vote for Chretien and didn't know much about politics then.

So much for coooledge edumacation.... you still don't
When it dries out behind your ears, and your paying your own way and the way of a couple of more with your mentality, come on back and add something conversation other then (you can afford to pay).

Wow..... your parents must be proud of where the money went that they saved for your schooling .... while still paying 18% on the house.:snapoutofit:

[eastcoast]

Let the Liberals get in and you'll find all about getting taxed to hell and fending for yourself! :lol:

Why is it that you young fellas won't believe what us old fellas are telling you about the Liberals? We lived through it..........believe it when we tell you that it won't be pleasant...........we're not just saying it because. You might glamorize change and all of that good stuff but you ought to listen to the people that have been there..........no one is trying to fool you........you would not enjoy a Liberal government!


you guys must have forgotten chretien paying down the debt, and harper increasing it?

[hal53]

you guys must have forgotten chretien paying down the debt, and harper increasing it?
True...he cut the deficit and paid down some debt...hmmmm...wonder where he found the cash to do that...oh right!!!!...slashed the military to the point we were the laughing stock of the G7 (at that time, yes it was the G7)...and transferred tons of stuff to the provinces, who in turn transferred it to the municipalities....last time I checked....there's only 1 tax payer.....Rob Peter to pay Paul???...looks good on paper and the campaign trail...but........

[eastcoast]

True...he cut the deficit and paid down some debt...hmmmm...wonder where he found the cash to do that...oh right!!!!...slashed the military to the point we were the laughing stock of the G7 (at that time, yes it was the G7)...and transferred tons of stuff to the provinces, who in turn transferred it to the municipalities....last time I checked....there's only 1 tax payer.....Rob Peter to pay Paul???...looks good on paper and the campaign trail...but........

fact remains that he did it, harper said he was going to do it but instead he cut alot of taxes and incresed the defefit and debt. I have no problem with cutting taxes but to do it and increase the debt is dumb, like the old saying goes you can pay now or you can pay later,I would like to see the debt gone all together in 10 years and if that means a little raise in taxes and some efficencies in government thats ok with me.

what harper is doing is like if you get demoted at work and take a pay cut and continue to live the way you do now on credit cards, eventually the debt comes due with interest and you have to raise taxes anyways,better to have some short term pain than alot of long term pain.

[Okotokian]

yes actually I had surgery today on my shoulder, and am in a sling:angry3:

There goes another damn easterner wasting my tax dollars!!!!!!!!!!!! :angry3:

;) lol

[eastcoast]

There goes another damn easterner wasting my tax dollars!!!!!!!!!!!! :angry3:

;) lol

I pay those taxes too:snapoutofit:

first surgery, first time being put out, first stay in a hospital more than 2 hours,20-30 grand a year in taxes I think I am owed this lol.

[blackpheasant]

fact remains that he did it, harper said he was going to do it but instead he cut alot of taxes and incresed the defefit and debt. I have no problem with cutting taxes but to do it and increase the debt is dumb, like the old saying goes you can pay now or you can pay later,I would like to see the debt gone all together in 10 years and if that means a little raise in taxes and some efficencies in government thats ok with me.

what harper is doing is like if you get demoted at work and take a pay cut and continue to live the way you do now on credit cards, eventually the debt comes due with interest and you have to raise taxes anyways,better to have some short term pain than alot of long term pain.

You Liberals are all alike always wanting to raise taxes, I thought the Harper team did fairly well considering we just came throgh one of the biggest recessions we have had in decades.I'm sure if the stooges form a coalition you will get your wish in the form of a Carbon tax or something....

[Okotokian]

BTW the boogeyman checks under his bed for me.:shark:

Actually I do too. :scared:

Oh, and Red, I saw your ad for the duck call you are selling. I like ya and all, but I really don't want to put something in my mouth you've had your saliva all over for a few years! ;) LOL

[CNP]

you guys must have forgotten chretien paying down the debt, and harper increasing it?

Eastcost, have you forgotten about the World Recession? So do you think that the deficit we have been running for the past couple years has anything to do with that? Do you think that the liberals would have fared any better? You've got to think why are we where we are. We are fortunate and to be envied that we live in a nation that is not on the verge of bankruptcy.....like so many others. This is the result of successive canadian governments and sounder banking policies than those of any other western country. PM Harper did what any PM would have done........no I take that back.............he did it better than any other PM would have done. Sure, we went into a deficit situation, because the situation demanded it, and a Liberal government would have done the same.............do a search for how the Liberal government wanted MORE STIMULUS SPENDING for crying out loud. The deficit issue is really a feather in PM Harpers hat....not the other way around.

[eastcoast]

You Liberals are all alike always wanting to raise taxes, I thought the Harper team did fairly well considering we just came throgh one of the biggest recessions we have had in decades.I'm sure if the stooges form a coalition you will get your wish in the form of a Carbon tax or something....

well first off im not a liberal so that deflates your argument anyways, I have said many times I will probably vote pc this election as I did last one.


did you think that we made it through the rough times because maybe the reduced debt and defecits from the liberals time in power?you can't have it both ways.

[eastcoast]

Eastcost, have you forgotten about the World Recession? So do you think that the deficit we have been running for the past couple years has anything to do with that? Do you think that the liberals would have fared any better? You've got to think why are we where we are. We are fortunate and to be envied that we live in a nation that is not on the verge of bankruptcy.....like so many others. This is the result of successive canadian governments and sounder banking policies than those of any other western country. PM Harper did what any PM would have done........no I take that back.............he did it better than any other PM would have done. Sure, we went into a deficit situation, because the situation demanded it, and a Liberal government would have done the same.............do a search for how the Liberal government wanted MORE STIMULUS SPENDING for crying out loud. The deficit issue is really a feather in PM Harpers hat....not the other way around.

harper did an ok job of handling it, but now it seems over why is he continuing to raise the defecits?

in 2000 the corporate tax rate was 29.1 percent, now it's 16.5 percent, that would be great if we never had a defecit,I am all for cutting taxes any way possible but not in a major defecitn like we have now, leave the tax rates alone the businesses aren't asking for them,cut government spending and start paying down this debt.

[hal53]

harper did an ok job of handling it, but now it seems over why is he continuing to raise the defecits?

in 2000 the corporate tax rate was 29.1 percent, now it's 16.5 percent, that would be great if we never had a defecit,I am all for cutting taxes any way possible but not in a major defecitn like we have now, leave the tax rates alone the businesses aren't asking for them,cut government spending and start paying down this debt.
looks to me from this thread...that you're bored and trying to get something going by talking in circles...so....vote Liberal or NDP....whichever you want, that's your right...and.hope they get in....when they do....put your guns by the front door. That way they won't wreck too much of your house when they come for them....hope your shoulder heals quickly and you're back up and at 'er
Regards, H.

[blackpheasant]

well first off im not a liberal so that deflates your argument anyways, I have said many times I will probably vote pc this election as I did last one.


did you think that we made it through the rough times because maybe the reduced debt and defecits from the liberals time in power?you can't have it both ways.

I wasn't arguing....just callin it as i see it...arguing with Libs is like arguing with a room full of women...LOL

[TreeGuy]

I wonder where this nation would be at right now if stephan dion had won a majority in 2008 and implemented his green plan......

[Ryry4]

I wonder where this nation would be at right now if stephan dion had won a majority in 2008 and implemented his green plan......

:sick:

Scary thought.

[Jwood 456]

It can be irritating to have a frequent amount of elections taking up extra tax dollars. On the bright side though, the frequent elections will at least keep the Prime Minisiter on their feet better.

[eastcoast]

I wasn't arguing....just callin it as i see it...arguing with Libs is like arguing with a room full of women...LOL

so you have followed me into the voting booth and know which way I have voted?


see I don't hide behind party lines and spew party rhetoric like alot of people here, the last time liberals were in they paid down the debt and decreased the defecit, facts are facts they are hard to dispute,giving a tax break in the middle of a defecit is the same as increasing spending they both add to the debt, the conservatives want tax cuts the others want increased spending, pick your poisin because they both do the same thing in end.personally I want to see the debt paid down no matter what way they do it,I don't agree with either of the parties,see I am still relatively young and I don't want to pay this debt off the rest of my life when we have a chance to do it now.

[qballs]

Eastcoast,
Harper was FORCED into the deficit spending by the 3 opposition parties. They were going to bring down the government if he did not spend and extra 50 billion. As it stands, the deficit is dropping faster than planned.

Everyone gets ****y about corporate tax cuts, and how big business is keeping more profits. I look at it this way - My meagre investments are composed of shares of CORPORATIONS - via mutual funds, etc. Corporate tax cut = more money for me!!
It has also been proven that dropping the tax rate brings in more revenue dollars, I can spell that out for any liberals in the crowd if you don't understand it.
What do you think the deficit would be if the coalition of losers was in charge???

I am tired of governments taking MY money, and handing it out to people who don't do anything for it.

[eastcoast]

Eastcoast,
Harper was FORCED into the deficit spending by the 3 opposition parties. They were going to bring down the government if he did not spend and extra 50 billion. As it stands, the deficit is dropping faster than planned.

Everyone gets ****y about corporate tax cuts, and how big business is keeping more profits. I look at it this way - My meagre investments are composed of shares of CORPORATIONS - via mutual funds, etc. Corporate tax cut = more money for me!!
It has also been proven that dropping the tax rate brings in more revenue dollars, I can spell that out for any liberals in the crowd if you don't understand it.What do you think the deficit would be if the coalition of losers was in charge???

I am tired of governments taking MY money, and handing it out to people who don't do anything for it.

untrue, it's has never been proven that a drop in taxes increases money, that's a right wing talking point, look at what reaganomics did to the us defecit in the 80's that's a road I don't want to travel down.I am for drops in taxes because I think governments take too much money as it is, but it's not a good idea in a defecit spending era like this, leave taxes alone canada is very competitive right now 2nd lowest corporate taxes in the g8, and start paying off this debt asap so my kids aren't paying for it.

[doetracks]

Eastcoast,
Harper was FORCED into the deficit spending by the 3 opposition parties. They were going to bring down the government if he did not spend and extra 50 billion.

Absolutely - and then they demonized the PCs for spending.

[Redfrog]

Actually I do too. :scared:

Oh, and Red, I saw your ad for the duck call you are selling. I like ya and all, but I really don't want to put something in my mouth you've had your saliva all over for a few years! ;) LOL

Uh! UH! nope I'm not gonna say it.:)

BTW Ducks have feathers predators have fur. It's a predator call.:sHa_sarcasticlol:

[HunterDave]

harper did an ok job of handling it, but now it seems over why is he continuing to raise the defecits?

The Liberals wanted Harper to spend his way out of the recession and he wouldn't do it.........luckily for us. If you are that worried about the deficit now, just imagine what it would have been like if the Liberals were in power!!!!! They LOVE spending and then stealing the money from a different pot to pay it back. It's all smoke and mirrors......lol.

[Lonnie]

the GST was to pay the deficit off but then got thrown in to general revenue it could have paid the deficit off 3or 4 times over