American companies keep ripping off Canadians

[Sundancefisher]

It is extremely annoying that American companies charge excessive amounts of money for the same goods sold in Canada versus the US.

A major US car manufacturer was quoted as basically saying Canadians are stupid enough to pay more so we charge more.

My son wanted to buy a nerf gun but the toyRus.ca site had none in stock...I looked at the toysRus.com site and they had plenty. To my surprise the Canadian price was $29.99 and the US price was $19.99 (Shipping excluded from these costs). Same Sku...same model...same everything and ToysRus confirmed it. Are they going to change their prices...no.

Can I buy from the .com site. NO...they block sales to Canadians on the US site. They say the reason is because they are not set up for international payment. As if. A Mastercard is a Mastercard. Dinky little shops in the US accept my card...why not a major retailer? Because it will loose them profits.

What other stupid retailers are ripping us off! We need to make a list and punish the buggers with bad press!

Sun

[sheephunter]

Not sure I'd totally blame the U.S. manufacturers. There are a lot of Canadian levels that all make a profit before it's ultimately sold to the retailer. Add to that the social benefits we enjoy and what those cost employers and it's easy to see why things cost more here. Look at the average hourly wage and benefits at Toy R us in Edmonton vs Chicago. Someone has to pay for that. The standard of living we enjoy isn't free!

[Ryry4]

Subsidized living isn't cheap. The government is going to get their pound of flesh, and it goes back on the consumer. Welcome to Canada. Where everything is more expensive compared to the U.S.

[rugatika]

How about Canadian companies getting their pound of flesh from Canadians, from the front end and the back end.

Bombardier charges more for their products here in Canada, despite the fact that they receive huge subsidies from the Canadian taxpayer.

[sheephunter]

How about Canadian companies getting their pound of flesh from Canadians, from the front end and the back end.

Bombardier charges more for their products here in Canada, despite the fact that they receive huge subsidies from the Canadian taxpayer.

It pays to be from Quebec although lots of whining our of the east right now about all the subsity money going into the oil sands and gas definitely isn't cheaper in Canada! In the end, it's the average tax payer that gets hit the hardest....the joys of a socialist society.

[cochranenite]

people from the US have to pay for health care, we dont but we kind do through tax dollars, we have higher wages up here

[rugatika]

It pays to be from Quebec although lots of whining our of the east right now about all the subsity money going into the oil sands and gas definitely isn't cheaper in Canada! In the end, it's the average tax payer that gets hit the hardest....the joys of a socialist society.

I just read something about Taliban Jack trying to flame up the quebecers by telling them that every quebecer sends $75 to Alberta for the oil sands. I cannot believe he has the stones to set foot in this province.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/visiting-quebec-layton-rips-into-oil-sands/article1964853/

Lets hope Linda Duncan is never heard from again.

[sheephunter]

I just read something about Taliban Jack trying to flame up the quebecers by telling them that every quebecer sends $75 to Alberta for the oil sands. I cannot believe he has the stones to set foot in this province.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/visiting-quebec-layton-rips-into-oil-sands/article1964853/

Lets hope Linda Duncan is never heard from again.

Ya, he's been playing the "dirty oil" card big time but all of the parties are promising to cut or cut back federal subsidies to the oil sands. Good thing about Harper is he sems to have abandoned Quebec and is concetrating on reclaing NFLD. No matter who gets in, more money will be going east and less will be coming west.

[honda450]

How about Canadian companies getting their pound of flesh from Canadians, from the front end and the back end.

Bombardier charges more for their products here in Canada, despite the fact that they receive huge subsidies from the Canadian taxpayer.

Well Rug BRP (CAN AM & SKIDOO) and Bombardier are 2 seperate companys. BRP are made in Mexico they took the money and ran. hehehe They have nothing to do with each other now.

[rugatika]

Well Rug BRP (CAN AM & SKIDOO) and Bombardier are 2 seperate companys. BRP are made in Mexico they took the money and ran. hehehe They have nothing to do with each other now.

Wow. I didn't know that. I knew there was a name change thing, but was unaware they split. Good to know...makes me feel a little better about looking at a summit now...I think. lol. Alberta needs to start up a sled and atv company.

[Twisted Canuck]

How about Canadian companies getting their pound of flesh from Canadians, from the front end and the back end.

Bombardier charges more for their products here in Canada, despite the fact that they receive huge subsidies from the Canadian taxpayer.

My favorite example is hockey equipment. IF I could buy from HockeyGiant or HockeyMonkey in the US, I'd save 40-60% across the board on everything from Skates to Helmets to Sticks.....as it is, they are not allowed by Bauer and CCM (who basically monopolize the entire hockey market, having bought out Mission, RBK and Easton?) to ship to Canada, so I get stuck paying a huge premium on equipment that is 'made in Canada'. Or actually made somewhere in Asia, packaged in Canada, and then shipped to the US where it sells for significantly less. I have a good friend in NY who buys equipment for my son, it gets shipped from California to NY, then he ships to me, and I still save 30-50%....sometimes as much as 70% on sale items!! Same products available here, but don't like getting ripped off.

Same with optics. Leupold scope I was wanting was $609 from opticsplanet, but $839 here. Why? They won't ship to Canada. So Wildcats had (almost) exactly what I wanted and being a fine gentleman we made a deal so I don't have to be totally annoyed at Canadian pricing! Why won't they ship to Canada? Restricted Export, very dangerous selling optics to Canada, a moose might get injured or something.......OK, end of my rant. But I agree, Canada needs to get its pricing in line with the US, I shop as much as I can online from the US, because I hate getting raped for the same product here.

[TheClash]

not sure with other products..and I am not saying I like it or agree with it, but when we bring in products from the states we get hit with 18% duty as soon as any box hits the border as well as brokerage fees etc. it sucks and it makes it hard to explain to customers and we all hate it....we try to keep our prices as low as we can and still be able to recoup those costs. We are in the process now of trying to set it up so that the products we bring in for our preseason orders and the bulk of what we keep in stock for the year comes straight from the factories off shore and so we do not get hit with those fees and duties.

believe me, I think most Canadian companies selling "American" products wish it was different as well. Hard to deal with many times. maybe some companies don't care and try to gouge their customers, I know my boss tries as hard as he can to get the prices as low as he can and still make money in doing so.

[Lefty-Canuck]

I searched for a long time to buy a set of Optics (leica geovids) from the states. Found a few deals but they would not ship to Canada etc. I didn't want to pay the duty, brokerage, etc. To my amazement I found a set brand new in Calgary up for auction off our favorite E-auction site. I won the auction with shipping to my house for $1635.00 CAD.....if you look hard enough you can still find good deals under the Maple Leaf!

Lefty

[firegod74]

18% doesn't cover the 160 dollar markup at wholesale sports for an rcbs reloading setup over the states.

[TheClash]

living near the border has it's advantages for things like that lefty. I can order to the border and slip down in 20 minutes....usually my gas/time/and charges are still under what canadian prices are on some things.

[wwbirds]

No opticplanet won't ship to Canada because another fine company has exclusive distribution rights on Leupold products in Canada so that cheaper scope has no warrenty in Canada either.
Add a reasonable profit for doing business in Canada after paying staff, covering the cost of importing, filling in export and import documents and brokerage as well as a warrenty repair depot with 3 day turn around time and some people will try to buy outside the country to save a couple bucks. those same people will wonder after buying from walmart or overseas why there are no Canadian sporting goods companies or ammunition manufactureres or magazines made in Canada.
Because they didn't have the loyalty of Canadian customers so all our businesses eventually go south.

Clash if those imported products are made in US or even Mexico there is no duty at all nevermind an 18% duty. NAFTA made US products free of duty in Canada and vice versa many years ago.

[Lefty-Canuck]

living near the border has it's advantages for things like that lefty. I can order to the border and slip down in 20 minutes....usually my gas/time/and charges are still under what canadian prices are on some things.

PM me if I need anything ill give you a ring! :)

Lefty

[honda450]

living near the border has it's advantages for things like that lefty. I can order to the border and slip down in 20 minutes....usually my gas/time/and charges are still under what canadian prices are on some things.

Yup no doubt, but sad. I just ship things to my brother then he brings it up on his next visit............but I hate waiting. hehehe:)

[sinawalli]

While I totally support buying from Canadian merchants, it's hard not to go state side when the savings are signifcant! I recently looked at buying a set of Bushwacker fender flares for my truck. They cat around $675.00 here, got them off Ebay for $425 including shipping! That's a pretty good saving!

[Twisted Canuck]

No opticplanet won't ship to Canada because another fine company has exclusive distribution rights on Leupold products in Canada so that cheaper scope has no warrenty in Canada either.
Add a reasonable profit for doing business in Canada after paying staff, covering the cost of importing, filling in export and import documents and brokerage as well as a warrenty repair depot with 3 day turn around time and some people will try to buy outside the country to save a couple bucks. those same people will wonder after buying from walmart or overseas why there are no Canadian sporting goods companies or ammunition manufactureres or magazines made in Canada.
Because they didn't have the loyalty of Canadian customers so all our businesses eventually go south.

I'll happily identify myself with those 'some people', and not feel remotely bad. Our dollar is well over par, and capitalism is all about providing the consumer with a product they want at a price that they will pay, while remaining competitive. I have to do it in my business, and my pricing is down 15% from 2 years ago to remain competitive. Boo hoo. If companies in the US can provide a great product and also great service (they get the same great warranty service in the US as Korth provides here) at a better price, than I don't feel remotely bad about buying from them. And let's be real here, it's not a 'couple of bucks', it is 36% higher here! That my friend, is not a couple of bucks. If you want to buy a new truck and it is $35K in the US, and $47,250 dollars in Canada, with our dollar over par never mind, would you buy in Canada just to support Canadian business, if you had the option? If you want to, good on you. I work awfully damn hard for my money, and have a large family to support. The leftover 'drips' I get for my hobbies, I need to spend wisely. So don't give me your 'some people' are cheap sermon, because some people try their best to get what they can at the best price because that's the only way they can manage.

The whole concept of 'exclusive distribution rights' is just another way of saying that you are going to pay too much for a product because there are no other options available. I don't support monopolies, I support the practice of free market enterprise.

[honda450]

Like wise my buddy bought a trailer in Montana and after all the extras to bring it to Canada still saved $5000. (Identical Trailer) That includes his fuel and motel bills. Dang ya just gotta shake your head.

[wwbirds]

Since scopes are on the export restriction list good luck with getting great warrenty service out of the states as curent export permits are taking 60-90 days just to receive.

Korth is not selling scopes to the general public so that 36% you are quoting is actually the distribution fee as well as a profit margin for the Canadian retailer. It costs to do business in Canada as you apparently know from your business and everyone needs a profit margin in order to survive.
Shopping around for the best deal is fine but since it costs more to run and keep a business going in Canada (better benefits, healthcare, higher taxes etc) no one should be surprized or bitch when the Canadian entities can no longer compete and fold. Consumer discretion is a double edge sword when you can pick and chose the products you will buy abroad. Canadian business needs all the support it can get or WalMart will be the only choice in Canada.

[greylynx]

You can't order anything out of Beretta USA because Stoeger Canada has the rights to selling anything Beretta in Canada

The problem with Stoeger Canada is that they have very little inventory of anything Beretta.

These postings make a guy depressed.

[mark007]

economics.....usa 350 million peeps ,canada 35 millions peeps

usa sells cheaper because of more buying power.

we buy say 3million guns a year usa buys 30 million a year

same concept with other products

[Twisted Canuck]

Meh....faster warranty service on an excellent product that in all likelihood will never need it, doesn't justify a 36% price difference to me. And for the record, I'll bet it 'costs to do business' in the USA as well. Be competitive, or go out of business as far as I'm concerned. That's my reality, and I'll shop accordingly. Canada, US, whatever. It's a global marketplace, everyone want's in the game. If Canadian businesses can't compete, they should go under in my books. Free market, capitalism, much better than social engineering and government subsidized businesses as far as I'm concerned.

[greylynx]

economics.....usa 350 million peeps ,canada 35 millions peeps

usa sells cheaper because of more buying power.

we buy say 3million guns a year usa buys 30 million a year

same concept with other products

The neat thing about Beretta is everything sold by Stoeger Arms in Canada comes from Beretta USA. That sort of skews the supply demand graph by putting controls on the supply side. The result is a higher price created for the consumer on the the demand supply intersection.

[kodiakken]

twisted canuck
You hit the nail on the head in the USA you swim or sink in Canada there are subsidies that have to be paid for, there is a government health care that has to be paid for, A pension plan government run that has to be paid for.
I won't open up welfare, Quebec and Ontario the main have not provinces that have to be paid for.

No wonder we are taxed to death and pay more for our goods.

She is a sorry mess. Wonder what it will cost our kids to live here?

Ken.

[mark007]

The neat thing about Beretta is everything sold by Stoeger Arms in Canada comes from Beretta USA. That sort of skews the supply demand graph by putting controls on the supply side. The result is a higher price created for the consumer on the the demand supply intersection.

but.....Beretta sells more guns in the states than in canada therefore higher prices .

would be intersted to find out what wholesale prices on same gun in usa compared to canada.

[elkhunter11]

Well Rug BRP (CAN AM & SKIDOO) and Bombardier are 2 seperate companys. BRP are made in Mexico they took the money and ran. hehehe They have nothing to do with each other now.

BRP appears to be Canadian based, and they still charge Canadians more than Americans.

[chasingtail]

twisted canuck
You hit the nail on the head in the USA you swim or sink in Canada there are subsidies that have to be paid for, there is a government health care that has to be paid for, A pension plan government run that has to be paid for.
I won't open up welfare, Quebec and Ontario the main have not provinces that have to be paid for.

No wonder we are taxed to death and pay more for our goods.

She is a sorry mess. Wonder what it will cost our kids to live here?

Ken.


I believe in the states gov't health care costs are the same per capita as Canada, last I checked there is a pension plan, and they have a lot of welfare, ever here of the hood. I think business taxes are also lower in Canada the the States.
There is no excuse were getting ripped off.

[wwbirds]

I deal with Stoeger quite frequently so would be willing to bet that nothing Stoeger Canada handles is from the US. Shipping in bond through the US (NY)bound for Canada does not enter into the US system.
Stoeger Canada orders directly from Italy. Products available to Beretta USA are sometimes not even available in Canada as it is a different licensing agreement.

[Boss442]

Purchased a Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm a couple of years ago. If I bought in the US I could send into S&W for two free magazines, but they would'nt send them to Canadians? When I contacted them they told me that they could not import Mags??? What the hell they can import firearms I said.

[sheephunter]

I deal with Stoeger quite frequently so would be willing to bet that nothing Stoeger Canada handles is from the US. Shipping in bond through the US (NY)bound for Canada does not enter into the US system.
Stoeger Canada orders directly from Italy. Products available to Beretta USA are sometimes not even available in Canada as it is a different licensing agreement.

Same with Sako and Tika. They come direct from Finland. We are usually a year or two later getting new products over the U.S. Not sure why.

[Sundancefisher]

in Canada there are subsidies that have to be paid for, there is a government health care that has to be paid for,

Actually when researching this point it is actually far from true. While we may justify it too ourselves...there are no subsidies impacting the price. A car or truck manufactured in Canada or the US is governed under NAFTA. Therefore those parts or the vehicle does not see any duties to be sold on either side of the border.

The only reason it costs $1000 to $15000 more depending upon the model is because we pay it... Crazy as it sounds.

[precloading]

I have been involved in fundraising for several different organizations, and have yet to get any donation from a U.S. scope company. The reality is that it has always cost more for the same product in Canada. U.S. income tax = 25% Canada = 40%. You can rent a house in many U.S for 300.00 1200.00 in Canada Your job in the U.S. likely pays 25% less than in Canada, but don't here you whining about that! If you want to pay less work for less!
Maybe you should think about the fact that if everyone bought in the states you wouldn't have that high paying job in northern Alberta to ship your money to the U.S.
Enjoy that online shopping when you break some little part on a gun and have to spend a week or two of hunting season waiting on the post office. Or when you can't figure out what is wrong with a gun and need to have it looked at and have to go to the States for that. Lots of the same guy's buying in the states have no problem phoning a store or distributor in Canada to ask a dumb question before they go to the U.S. and spend the dollars on the product.

[Sundancefisher]

I believe in the states gov't health care costs are the same per capita as Canada, last I checked there is a pension plan, and they have a lot of welfare, ever here of the hood. I think business taxes are also lower in Canada the the States.
There is no excuse were getting ripped off.

I have also compared tax rates...we don't pay taxes on our home sale..in the US they do. While they can write off their mortgage interest on their taxes...they are way over the top in terms of debt.

They pay a huge amount for insurance of all sorts...and once you have an existing condition is it not covered unless you have corporate coverage. If you cost the company too much...expect to be on the top of the list for layoffs. If you need help...if the HMO deems it needed...they will do the cheapest treatment possible...if the cheapest treatment does not work...it is deemed untreatable.

Still back to the cost factor...we are not that different in terms of taxes...when factoring in everything we are covered for. We are just not vigilante enough in terms of where we buy our products.

[greylynx]

I deal with Stoeger quite frequently so would be willing to bet that nothing Stoeger Canada handles is from the US. Shipping in bond through the US (NY)bound for Canada does not enter into the US system.
Stoeger Canada orders directly from Italy. Products available to Beretta USA are sometimes not even available in Canada as it is a different licensing agreement.

To prove the point we are getting screwed in Canada.

How come the boxes of Beretta guns have the address of Beretta U.S.A?

[Sundancefisher]

Here is a prime example

Canadian Costs $74.99

Nerf - N-Strike Sonic Vulcan EBF-25

http://www.toysrus.ca/product/index.jsp?productId=4348244


US Costs $44.99

Nerf N-Strike Vulcan EBF-25

http://www.toysrus.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4462489


Same Toy...$30.00 more in Canada...

[mark007]

Here is a prime example

Canadian Costs $74.99

Nerf - N-Strike Sonic Vulcan EBF-25

http://www.toysrus.ca/product/index.jsp?productId=4348244


US Costs $44.99

Nerf N-Strike Vulcan EBF-25

http://www.toysrus.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4462489


Same Toy...$30.00 more in Canada...

yes but in states they sell 1 million in canada they sell 100,000 more people buying = cheaper prices!

[greylynx]

yes but in states they sell 1 million in canada they sell 100,000 more people buying = cheaper prices!

Where is the central distribution point for Toys R US.

Where is that distrubution point before it makes it to some shyster middle man who gets his cut, and is able to abuse the canadian consumer because he is protected by of canadian laws.

For you CRA types why can we know longer import super cheap shotshells from central and eastern Europe? We were able to purchase these items in the 70's until......Imperial Industries (CIL) of France said we could not.

[Twisted Canuck]

... If you want to pay less work for less!
Maybe you should think about the fact that if everyone bought in the states you wouldn't have that high paying job in northern Alberta to ship your money to the U.S.
Enjoy that online shopping when you break some little part on a gun and have to spend a week or two of hunting season waiting on the post office. Or when you can't figure out what is wrong with a gun and need to have it looked at and have to go to the States for that. Lots of the same guy's buying in the states have no problem phoning a store or distributor in Canada to ask a dumb question before they go to the U.S. and spend the dollars on the product.

I do work for less (than I used to). It's called being in a competitive market, and I need to price accordingly. That's why I don't try to pay more just so I can wave my Canadian Flag. Canadian consumers are being screwed, plain and simple (as was so aptly pointed out in the above post by Sundancefisher about auto prices). All your talk of 'if a teeny part breaks you'll miss a hunting season....'. Gimme a break. For starters, most of us have multiple hunting rifles :) and we also have qualified gunsmiths to fix them. I'll pay a smith $90 for two hours of his time to fix my gun if I have to. I won't pay 37% more for a product just so I can have a 'Canadian' warranty. It's all a big con, protectionist, exlusive distrubotor, monopoly...call it what you will, but if enough hard working people say 'ENOUGH!" and vote with their dollars elsewhere, prices will come down here. Why do you think Porsche lowered the price on their cars by $5-10K each? Because the smart folks with the money to buy them were getting them out of the states. With warranty.

[Steven Noel]

Amazon screws you to...

Canon Rebel T1i w/ Canon EF-S 18-55 Lens

Amazon.com - $721.20
http://www.amazon.com/Canon-T1i-Digital-18-55mm-3-5-5-6/dp/B001XURPQS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1301719028&sr=8-2

Amazon.ca - $977.87
http://www.amazon.ca/Canon-T1i-Digital-18-55mm-3-5-5-6/dp/B001XURPQS/ref=sr_1_32?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1301718943&sr=1-32

Anything photography related is rediculous. And just to scew you, Amazon forbids suppliers from Amazon.com from shiping to Canada, suggesting to "try Amazon.ca instead". The few items that will ship to Canada will cost you anywhere from $100- $300 to ship something no bigger then your fist from the states in a week.

[Jwood 456]

I remember buying a 500yd roll of 120lb braided line for halibut fishing from Cabelas online. The roll of line itself cost $130.00, then with the rediculous hidden shipping costs, it turned out to cost $200.00.:sign0176:

[needmoretoys]

For all who are complaining that we are getting screwed here do not have to import items, pay shipping, monitor currency, and keep stock for people to purchase. Of course their is going to be a cost difference. We buy in USD and still have to pay for all the other stuff. If you buy stock at a a $0.95 USD and the dollar goes up, you can change your price a little, but if it goes down, you are loosing money. The doll oar has been better in the last couple of years then in the past, but I really hate people that do not have a business complain about prices and compare them to the US. If you do not want to support your local business, then do not complain when they all go out of business. If that happens, we get more people on assistance or EI. This is not good for anyone. Hey, I like a deal too, but I have to make money also. I will ask if you would like to take a pay cut just to help someone get a better deal?

[Twisted Canuck]

I do own a business. I did have to take a paycut when the economy took the hit, 15-20%, and I didn't whine about it. The implication that 'working up north' means you are making the 'big bucks' automatically, is hogwash. I have to remain competitive to keep my business healthy and profitable. When I'm shopping, I don't complain about paying 5%, 10%. even up to 20% more on some items, I will usually support local business. When it is over 30% or even 40%, then I'll take my hard earned money elsewhere. If you can't be competitive, change your business model of find something else to do, don't get all over the consumer for not being willing to pay a premium to keep you in business just because you are local. We work hard for our money as consumers. As retailers, maybe you should work hard to keep your pricing competitive or don't expect people to shop with you. When I can buy three pair of workshoes from the US, for what the price of one pair costs locally, shipping tax and all included, you can bet I'll be ordering from the US. There is absolutely no way that the merchant needs to charge triple to cover his costs as you imply. You go ahead and feel free to hate consumers for not wanting to pay a significant amount more, I'll continue to hate getting gouged by merchants who think they can because they wave the flag. You won't hear me complain one bit if a local business goes under because they can't compete. I don't shop there anyway, I work to hard for my money. Maybe they should have worked harder at winning my business.

[fordtruckin]

My favorite example is hockey equipment. IF I could buy from HockeyGiant or HockeyMonkey in the US, I'd save 40-60% across the board on everything from Skates to Helmets to Sticks.....as it is, they are not allowed by Bauer and CCM (who basically monopolize the entire hockey market, having bought out Mission, RBK and Easton?) to ship to Canada, so I get stuck paying a huge premium on equipment that is 'made in Canada'. Or actually made somewhere in Asia, packaged in Canada, and then shipped to the US where it sells for significantly less. I have a good friend in NY who buys equipment for my son, it gets shipped from California to NY, then he ships to me, and I still save 30-50%....sometimes as much as 70% on sale items!! Same products available here, but don't like getting ripped off.

Same with optics. Leupold scope I was wanting was $609 from opticsplanet, but $839 here. Why? They won't ship to Canada. So Wildcats had (almost) exactly what I wanted and being a fine gentleman we made a deal so I don't have to be totally annoyed at Canadian pricing! Why won't they ship to Canada? Restricted Export, very dangerous selling optics to Canada, a moose might get injured or something.......OK, end of my rant. But I agree, Canada needs to get its pricing in line with the US, I shop as much as I can online from the US, because I hate getting raped for the same product here.

economics.....usa 350 million peeps ,canada 35 millions peeps

usa sells cheaper because of more buying power.

we buy say 3million guns a year usa buys 30 million a year

same concept with other products

X2000000000 Kinda sounds like you've taken a few business classes and understand the system Mark007!

I believe in the states gov't health care costs are the same per capita as Canada, last I checked there is a pension plan, and they have a lot of welfare, ever here of the hood. I think business taxes are also lower in Canada the the States.
There is no excuse were getting ripped off.

I have been involved in fundraising for several different organizations, and have yet to get any donation from a U.S. scope company. The reality is that it has always cost more for the same product in Canada. U.S. income tax = 25% Canada = 40%. You can rent a house in many U.S for 300.00 1200.00 in Canada Your job in the U.S. likely pays 25% less than in Canada, but don't here you whining about that! If you want to pay less work for less!
Maybe you should think about the fact that if everyone bought in the states you wouldn't have that high paying job in northern Alberta to ship your money to the U.S..
Exactly, If you want to pay less go somewhere you make less. Just because something is cheaper on the other side of the fence doesn't mean you are automatically entitled to the same price. Things are marketed to the economies in which they will be sold. Ifyou make more $$ you will pay more plain and simple!


I love how everyone loves to blame the USA for screwing Canada over yet many times its Canada screwing Canadains over. An example would be with Skidoo-. A Canadian can not buy a Skidoo from a dealership in the USA. Why? Because of regional agreements. Bombardier in its infamous wisdom threatened to pull the licenses from dealers in the States who sold to Canadians. What does this mean? A Canadian company telling the people who sell their product who they can and can not sell to, Specifically restricting the sales to Canadians because they know they can and will pay more for the same item.

It sucks, but so does life. Live with it. I think its BS a highschool drop out can go to the oilfield and make 25+$ an hour, yet apeople who protect and serve the general population get "government" wages.

[So Nova *!%]

X2000000000 Kinda sounds like you've taken a few business classes and understand the system Mark007!




Exactly, If you want to pay less go somewhere you make less. Just because something is cheaper on the other side of the fence doesn't mean you are automatically entitled to the same price. Things are marketed to the economies in which they will be sold. Ifyou make more $$ you will pay more plain and simple!



It sucks, but so does life. Live with it. I think its BS a highschool drop out can go to the oilfield and make 25+$ an hour, yet apeople who protect and serve the general population get "government" wages.

Hmmmm are you saying that government workers are working for less money?And yet they have the opportunity to earn more.seems they shop at the same places I do ( sorry I had to I know its salting a wound but you said it) :sHa_sarcasticlol:
look at the publishing houses as our Dollar came on par with that of the US they were forced by consumers to stop charging premium Canadian prices.
Support Canadian all you can, but the bottom line is the bottom dollar for all of us I have to do what will keep more money in my wallet
35 Million people refusing to pay more brings a collective voice to to price we pay for goods But you try to convince Ontarian to agree with an Albertan!

Just one sobering thought on big box store prices. Once there is no competition how will you know if they are giving you a fair price, and if they have a monopoly where else will you go?

[Christofficer]

You think that price difference is bad sundance? I bought a pair of shoes about 4 days ago. I compared the prices from the US companies who sell the particular shoes, and the canadian prices. For US citizens, the shoes were on sale for $35.99. Not on sale, $39.99. The ONLY canadian site that had them (the one from the states wouldn't ship to canada), they were ON SALE for $79.99. None of this included shipping prices. So once I did the math on rates, how low I can get shipping on them, I ended up just buying them from the canadian site which costed me a total of $92.80 with canadian post expedited shipping. I'm kinda face palming for giving in, but I really wanted some nice comfy sneakers.


I did some research after reading this thread, and I ended finding a kind of obscure site from the US that would ship the same shoes to canada. And guess how much they cost? $59.99 CDN. But here's the catch. They only ship with UPS, and the initial charge at customs for duties was I think 19%. Altogether, it would have cost somewhere around $110.00. Cost would have been $59.99, Shipping $25.00 ATLEAST via UPS, tax $5.10, conversion fee $2.12, brokerage $20.62, and finally disbursment charge of $6.20. And it would have taken atleast 16 days to get here.

It's messed up man. But let's face it, there's not much you can do.

[calgarygringo]

I buy a lot of things out of the U.S. and rule one is don't get it shipped UPS or Fedx. That is where the pricing goes crazy. Only deal with them if they will ship USPS. If you look hard enough many do ship that way and if you contact the company many I have found that don't advertise it will ship that way. Does not take any longer and like Canada Post is cheap and you don't pay the crazy fees for brokerage etc. the others charge. Remember as well if it is made in the U.S. or Mexico there is also no duty charged and you should not be paying duty. This does not always work but for smaller dollar items it can save a pile of money. For bigger items sometimes the UPS/Fedex route is it and you can justify there crazy rates in the price. Buyer beware......

[Christofficer]

I buy a lot of things out of the U.S. and rule one is don't get it shipped UPS or Fedx. That is where the pricing goes crazy. Only deal with them if they will ship USPS. If you look hard enough many do ship that way and if you contact the company many I have found that don't advertise it will ship that way. Does not take any longer and like Canada Post is cheap and you don't pay the crazy fees for brokerage etc. the others charge. Remember as well if it is made in the U.S. or Mexico there is also no duty charged and you should not be paying duty. This does not always work but for smaller dollar items it can save a pile of money. For bigger items sometimes the UPS/Fedex route is it and you can justify there crazy rates in the price. Buyer beware......Thank you for the tip, I will keep that in mind. I just got my first mastercard a few months ago and so this was my first purchase and I am a complete noob at buying things online.

[Unregistered user]

Extra packaging/ marketing requirements here due to bilingualism and metric add costs that some smaller companies just won't bother selling up here.

[Twisted Canuck]

X2000000000

I love how everyone loves to blame the USA for screwing Canada over yet many times its Canada screwing Canadains over. An example would be with Skidoo-. A Canadian can not buy a Skidoo from a dealership in the USA. Why? Because of regional agreements. Bombardier in its infamous wisdom threatened to pull the licenses from dealers in the States who sold to Canadians. What does this mean? A Canadian company telling the people who sell their product who they can and can not sell to, Specifically restricting the sales to Canadians because they know they can and will pay more for the same item.


Not everyone loves to blame the USA, quite the contrary, I agree with the example you give, and gave my own earlier regarding hockey equipment from Bauer and CCM. It is extortion, the whole protectionist racket of not allowing your retailer in the USA to ship a product to another country in order to protect high profit margins of the retailers there, or giving 'exclusive distributor agreements'. Might as well say, 'Since you don't need to compete, charge as much as you want, the consumer will just have to pay it because he has to if he wants our product'. Sometimes I just refuse to buy that product, and will look for an alternative.

Bottom line for me: I don't feel obligated to pay a high premium to a retailer to 'support local business' to maintain their bloated profit margin (I know, I know, everyone has to make a living, so do I, but I still have to compete!), if they can't compete they shouldn't be in business, or should try a different business model that can make them more competitive. Buying online doesn't mean always buying in the USA either, I can get Pelican gun cases out of Calgary cheaper than the USA, and almost 40% less than wholesale sports charges. Free shipping in Canada on orders over $125.....I shop smart, because my customers just don't throw scads of money at me for my services. No guilt on my part at all, in fact, I just love getting a great discount on merchandise wherever it comes from.

[LongBomber]

people from the US have to pay for health care, we dont but we kind do through tax dollars, we have higher wages up here

Right... I pay more per month for my health care than my friends who live 20 min south in Montana. I pay basic BC med of $67 and over $200 a month in extended care... so how is $267/moonth free???

We get hosed as Canadian consumers, too many middle men and taxes at every stage of the products life.

[Rackmastr]

not sure with other products..and I am not saying I like it or agree with it, but when we bring in products from the states we get hit with 18% duty as soon as any box hits the border as well as brokerage fees etc. it sucks and it makes it hard to explain to customers and we all hate it....we try to keep our prices as low as we can and still be able to recoup those costs. We are in the process now of trying to set it up so that the products we bring in for our preseason orders and the bulk of what we keep in stock for the year comes straight from the factories off shore and so we do not get hit with those fees and duties.

believe me, I think most Canadian companies selling "American" products wish it was different as well. Hard to deal with many times. maybe some companies don't care and try to gouge their customers, I know my boss tries as hard as he can to get the prices as low as he can and still make money in doing so.

Dan,

Good to see the word "American" in quotes as anything getting dinged with 18% duty will not be American. Duty rates like that are imposed to support Canadian business and products and free-trade agreements are put in place by countries that rely on trade and support eachothers values, working conditions, etc.

Bottom line, if a product is made outside of US/Mexico or a few small other countries with free-trade agreements, you will pay high duty rates, no matter how it comes into Canada (direct or not). I actually think duty rates should be HIGHER for some products that could be easily made in Canada, to support businesses staying in Canada and manufacturing their products here, rather than shipping their factories overseas.

[Redfrog]

I buy a lot of things out of the U.S. and rule one is don't get it shipped UPS or Fedx. That is where the pricing goes crazy. Only deal with them if they will ship USPS. If you look hard enough many do ship that way and if you contact the company many I have found that don't advertise it will ship that way. Does not take any longer and like Canada Post is cheap and you don't pay the crazy fees for brokerage etc. the others charge. Remember as well if it is made in the U.S. or Mexico there is also no duty charged and you should not be paying duty. This does not always work but for smaller dollar items it can save a pile of money. For bigger items sometimes the UPS/Fedex route is it and you can justify there crazy rates in the price. Buyer beware......

You nailed it except for one little thing, "and like Canada Post is cheap"

Canada post is not like USPS and certainly is not cheap.
I can get small item like a predator call shipped from the U.S. . It is here in about 7 days regular mail USPS and the cost is under 2 dollars. I change the label and send it to a friend here. it takes 4-5 days and costs 13 dollars.

It is at minimum double the rate with Can Post and usually 5-times or more.

[dgl1948]

we don't pay taxes on our home sale..in the US they do

Only on your first home sale here, after that you will pay on capital gains on any other sales.

once you have an existing condition is it not covered unless you have corporate coverage

Insurance companys in Canada will not cover a pre-existing condition, this includes corporation plans. I am very familiar with this as I administered a benifit plan in a large corp.

they will do the cheapest treatment possible...if the cheapest treatment does not work

It is the same here. A good example is generic vs brand name drugs.

it is deemed untreatable

Not true, they have to follow the plan text.

They pay a huge amount for insurance of all sorts

And we do not??? Check out the insurance premiums paid by your company as well as the taxes you pay for our government plan.

[Sundancefisher]

For all who are complaining that we are getting screwed here do not have to import items, pay shipping, monitor currency, and keep stock for people to purchase. Of course their is going to be a cost difference. We buy in USD and still have to pay for all the other stuff. If you buy stock at a a $0.95 USD and the dollar goes up, you can change your price a little, but if it goes down, you are loosing money. The doll oar has been better in the last couple of years then in the past, but I really hate people that do not have a business complain about prices and compare them to the US. If you do not want to support your local business, then do not complain when they all go out of business. If that happens, we get more people on assistance or EI. This is not good for anyone. Hey, I like a deal too, but I have to make money also. I will ask if you would like to take a pay cut just to help someone get a better deal?

Businesses are also getting ripped off by our American "friends"... They figure they can make us pay more and obviously businesses are getting sucked into that void also. It does not make it right...just shows how bad it is. Businesses need to find a way to get the US suppliers to charge them the same. Psychologically we in Canada have gotten too use to paying more because of the exchange. When we went to par and beyond...the suppliers make greater and greater profits...and are loving it cause businesses here don't seem to be savvy enough to fight for their customers. IMHO

yes but in states they sell 1 million in canada they sell 100,000 more people buying = cheaper prices!

That is bogus as we are no worse a market than Montana, Idaho, Washington...putting a geographical line when we have NAFTA allowing for free trade is a cop out IMHO. They are hosing us...and we say thanks for selling it too us...sorry we have to pay more and please...oh please...kick us again.

It is ridiculous seeing how truly bad we are as a country of consumers. Really...really bad. Our bargaining skills are so poor...for the average person it is laughable IMHO.

[Sundancefisher]

I do own a business. I did have to take a paycut when the economy took the hit, 15-20%, and I didn't whine about it. The implication that 'working up north' means you are making the 'big bucks' automatically, is hogwash. I have to remain competitive to keep my business healthy and profitable. When I'm shopping, I don't complain about paying 5%, 10%. even up to 20% more on some items, I will usually support local business. When it is over 30% or even 40%, then I'll take my hard earned money elsewhere. If you can't be competitive, change your business model of find something else to do, don't get all over the consumer for not being willing to pay a premium to keep you in business just because you are local. We work hard for our money as consumers. As retailers, maybe you should work hard to keep your pricing competitive or don't expect people to shop with you. When I can buy three pair of workshoes from the US, for what the price of one pair costs locally, shipping tax and all included, you can bet I'll be ordering from the US. There is absolutely no way that the merchant needs to charge triple to cover his costs as you imply. You go ahead and feel free to hate consumers for not wanting to pay a significant amount more, I'll continue to hate getting gouged by merchants who think they can because they wave the flag. You won't hear me complain one bit if a local business goes under because they can't compete. I don't shop there anyway, I work to hard for my money. Maybe they should have worked harder at winning my business.

X2...great points...

[calgarygringo]

My point being like Canada Post and USPS you only pay the shipping price you do not pay any extra broker or handling fees. USPS is still the cheapest overall no question, but paying those others fees the others charge just because always used to tick me off until I figured it out. Occasionally you can't get around it but if it is not advertised don't be afraid to ask as many will do that for you on request.

[Redfrog]

As I said you nailed it. That stinking broker fee for doing nothing just just peels my grapes.:argue2:

[Sundancefisher]

Right... I pay more per month for my health care than my friends who live 20 min south in Montana. I pay basic BC med of $67 and over $200 a month in extended care... so how is $267/moonth free???

We get hosed as Canadian consumers, too many middle men and taxes at every stage of the products life.


No idea what your extra costs could be for maybe medicine coverage through blue cross. Still in the US they are probably paying less for the medication and in Canada we pay more. Surgical equipment etc. probably costs more for the office in your BC home town to buy than the guy across the border. Someone should check that out.

A buddy of mine in Denver has a family of 4...is a small business owner and pays $24,000 a year for coverage. If one of them gets diabetes...it is covered for the year it was discovered... After than it is a preexisting condition and requires special coverage or out of pocket. If his wife gets pregnant 4 months before renewal...it is a preexisting condition and the hospital costs are not covered.

A buddy went to a HMO in Denver...had a bad foot. It was going to cost the HMO $8000 for surgery...or $12000 for alternative treatment. They scheduled him for a foot amputation when he found out he went ballistic on them. He fought them...hard battle...they relented...no surgery and he is fine now.

I don't think we can say our system is bad. I will never lose my house if I get sick. While there are extremes...for every extreme problem in Canada...I can give to 100 in the US. If you have money in the states and don't care where you spend it...great...but how many of us on this forum can comfortably say we have $100,000 kicking around for medical expenses.

[Sundancefisher]

You think that price difference is bad sundance? I bought a pair of shoes about 4 days ago. I compared the prices from the US companies who sell the particular shoes, and the canadian prices. For US citizens, the shoes were on sale for $35.99. Not on sale, $39.99. The ONLY canadian site that had them (the one from the states wouldn't ship to canada), they were ON SALE for $79.99. None of this included shipping prices. So once I did the math on rates, how low I can get shipping on them, I ended up just buying them from the canadian site which costed me a total of $92.80 with canadian post expedited shipping. I'm kinda face palming for giving in, but I really wanted some nice comfy sneakers.


I did some research after reading this thread, and I ended finding a kind of obscure site from the US that would ship the same shoes to canada. And guess how much they cost? $59.99 CDN. But here's the catch. They only ship with UPS, and the initial charge at customs for duties was I think 19%. Altogether, it would have cost somewhere around $110.00. Cost would have been $59.99, Shipping $25.00 ATLEAST via UPS, tax $5.10, conversion fee $2.12, brokerage $20.62, and finally disbursment charge of $6.20. And it would have taken atleast 16 days to get here.

It's messed up man. But let's face it, there's not much you can do.

The duties scam is also present on the net.

You need to look up on the internet as to if your item is duty free under NAFTA. You may be due to get a refund. I tried once...got charged $5 duty. Sent the receipt and a note and description of the item...I got $5 back in the mail from the Government of Canada.

Just because you are charged duty...does not mean it is warranted.

[Sundancefisher]

Quote:
we don't pay taxes on our home sale..in the US they do
Only on your first home sale here, after that you will pay on capital gains on any other sales.

Not true...all homes are tax free. Not sure where you are getting your info from. You have to live in it as your primary residence for 1 year to apply. Home flippers do this all the time in Canada. Very common.

Quote:
once you have an existing condition is it not covered unless you have corporate coverage
Insurance companys in Canada will not cover a pre-existing condition, this includes corporation plans. I am very familiar with this as I administered a benifit plan in a large corp.

I have never seen that happen. In fact I know a number of people that have asthma and MS and are on lots of drugs...covered no differently than my occasional drug use. Again...not sure where you are coming from but I am talking from experience also. The main thing you are missing on is that if you get Cancer in Canada...and get treated...and it comes back...further treatment is 100% covered.

Quote:
they will do the cheapest treatment possible...if the cheapest treatment does not work
It is the same here. A good example is generic vs brand name drugs.
I don't know of any insurance company at a corporation that forces you to buy generic. Maybe blue cross does but I have never seen that happen myself in 30 years. As for surgery...or not...a doctor here will prescribe the best option without worrying about profit for a hospital.

Quote:
it is deemed untreatable
Not true, they have to follow the plan text.
Not sure what you mean...HMO's will fight you tooth and nail to do what is cheapest...not necessarily best. In the US you are 95% of the time forced to see a HMO doctor that is paid by the HMO. The HMO is a company with share holders who demand asset and cash flow growth. Simplest way to achieve that is through approving less or taking the cheapest route...not necessarily the best. Squeaky wheels sometimes can get better treatment...but who fights or wants to fight when sick.

Quote:
They pay a huge amount for insurance of all sorts
And we do not??? Check out the insurance premiums paid by your company as well as the taxes you pay for our government plan.
Who do you think ultimately pays more...someone who is paying for a service that needs a 20% rate of return for shareholders or a government plan. Kinda of hard to say since people will quickly say that a government plan has lots of inefficiencies in it...but at least I know someone is not profiting from cheaping out on my health. Additional coverage is required to save small amounts relative to the catastrophic hit some people are forced to pay in the US. Gezz...hospitals in the US sue families of Cancer patients to cover medical costs. People loose their homes...all their retirement savings...just to cover their costs. When sick...I don't want to lose everything I worked for and provided to my family. Scary.


Not sure if you were just replying to me... but my responses are in red.

Cheers

Sun

[billie]

Only on your first home sale here, after that you will pay on capital gains on any other sales.

Just to clarify, your "primary residence" is tax free, no matter how many you have had, although you can only have 1 primary residence at a time. Second and subsequent properties are subject to capital gains taxes.

[winged1]

Canadians had never been a consuming nation. We built our economy on hard work, cultivating our resources. But things have changed as the mighty American consumer machines plows north into new found wealth. The problem isn't the behemoth American retailers forcing our local businesses into extinction, it's our gullibility in believing in the consumer fantasy.

[wwbirds]

Let me ask what is going to happen to all the businesses who spend a good portion of their advertising budget in Canada and determine that people are buying their product south of the border to save a hundred bucks. do you think they will withdraw their ads from OA, Canadaian Whitetails, Wild TV the Hunting Show or do you think they will keep paying for nothing to support your interests.
Beretta and Leupold could sell scopes in Canada without a single ad to those who are loyal. There is speculation from many here that there is no value add function for these CAnadian distribution networks but I suspect they reduce the cost of each individual dealer importing a few shotguns or scopes on their own with their own brokers. Bulk shipments from over seas generally save importers money but yes there is a percentage fee added to the cost of the products. Profit is a good word in the US but a bad word in Canada hence you wil find fewer businesses can survive without profit. Profit is necessary to business as a reasonable return on investment and making a profit is not ripping people off.
There is a small audience to advertise to in Canada but it costs as much or more to do business here. It is even smaller when you are looking at shooting sports. I spend an equal amount of my advertising budget in Canada and the US and make a few select donations of my art to good causes on both sides of the border. My sales in Canada are 10% of my gross on art because I have more of a hand carved decoy tradition in the US and 10 times the buyers. I know many world class artists in Canada and once again their sales are generally 10% of their gross worldwide sales. Since apparently saving a few hundred bucks is everything I and every other producer should put our advertising budget where the sales are going to take place the mainstream market place. In the US!

[winged1]

Let me ask what is going to happen to all the businesses who spend a good portion of their advertising budget in Canada and determine that people are buying their product south of the border to save a hundred bucks. do you think they will withdraw their ads from OA, Canadaian Whitetails, Wild TV the Hunting Show or do you think they will keep paying for nothing to support your interests.
Beretta and Leupold could sell scopes in Canada without a single ad to those who are loyal. There is speculation from many here that there is no value add function for these CAnadian distribution networks but I suspect they reduce the cost of each individual dealer importing a few shotguns or scopes on their own with their own brokers. Bulk shipments from over seas generally save importers money but yes there is a percentage fee added to the cost of the products. Profit is a good word in the US but a bad word in Canada hence you wil find fewer businesses can survive without profit. Profit is necessary to business as a reasonable return on investment and making a profit is not ripping people off.
There is a small audience to advertise to in Canada but it costs as much or more to do business here. It is even smaller when you are looking at shooting sports. I spend an equal amount of my advertising budget in Canada and the US and make a few select donations of my art to good causes on both sides of the border. My sales in Canada are 10% of my gross on art because I have more of a hand carved decoy tradition in the US and 10 times the buyers. I know many world class artists in Canada and once again their sales are generally 10% of their gross worldwide sales. Since apparently saving a few hundred bucks is everything I and every other producer should put our advertising budget where the sales are going to take place the mainstream market place. In the US!

And that's truly the meat of the matter. Do we create commerce, or do we consume, and is there a balance between. Driving pricing downward is good for consumers, but in the end your asset base is an inventory of cheap sh*t. Want value?, create it, market it, and reap the rewards.

[Twisted Canuck]

Apples and oranges wwbirds. What you are selling is a handcrafted, artisan item if I read your post right. What I am talking about is mass produced items (like my work shoes) that sell both sides of the border, with massive (40 -200%) discrepancies in pricing. Leupold scopes are not an exception to this, there is no reason they need to give an 'exclusive distributorship' to anyone. They have a great product, they have consumers who are avid to have it, why not let the free market set the price both sides of the border? The list of consumer rip off items is huge, shoes, books, clothing, electronics, vehicles (huge price differences) etc.

If your main business is in the USA, spend all your advertising dollars there, no harm done. You need to go where your customer is. Business is business. As a consumer, I'm going to go where the price is best for me. Return on dollar. It's an international market place, the web has opened up a new way of doing business. It's not a crime for business or consumer to adapt to this. It is disingenuous to play the 'patriotic card', or expect a premium to be paid on products when we theoretically have 'free trade'. Compete or perish, that is my reality in business.

Wanting to get a product at a competitive price does not automatically mean you are going to ruin businesses that produce quality items, and only have offshore produced crap left to chose from (although frankly, alot of offshore stuff that was previously crap has quickly caught up on the quality front!). A quality item will always have it's following, but they are not commiting treason to expect it at a reasonable price, rather than an artificially inflated one.

[wwbirds]

Seems to be the ringer here. I can justify Canadian firms selling for more if they have expenses to bringing the product to market, hiring staff etc and wanting a reasonable return on their investment. Both the aforementioned distribution networks bring jobs to the Canadian market place and offer a good product at a fair price. the lowest price is not always the best but you have already stated you don't care about service as with a great product you aren't likely to need it. Unfortunately to get the distribution you had to guarantee service and since shipping back was not an option it had to be built here.
You might feel you are competing in the market place short term but in reality businesses that offer only the deal price seldom last long term.
Consumers generally want the full service approach.
Many businesses have good better best quality to compete for differing market shares fortunately the companies we are discussing will not handle crap to just meet the pricing only criteria which seems to be important to a few shoppers.
You get what you pay for and if you stop supporting local business they willl disappear and take the jobs and advertising with them to the biggest market in the world. if we can't or won't learn from history it continues to repeat itself. Good bye Canadian business, if you can't compete go away. You deserve it for thinking you could make a mark up on an foreign product rather than building a factory and competing against them which has proven to be impossible.
Soon we won't have to worry about it as Wallymart wil be the only game in Canada. You are right in one aspect, we deserve what we get so without Canadian pride we might as well sell out to the inevitable.

[greylynx]

You are right in one aspect, we deserve what we get so without Canadian pride we might as well sell out to the inevitable.[/QUOTE]

Let the free market rule for us poor people.

[Twisted Canuck]

Seems to be the ringer here. I can justify Canadian firms selling for more if they have expenses to bringing the product to market, hiring staff etc and wanting a reasonable return on their investment. Both the aforementioned distribution networks bring jobs to the Canadian market place and offer a good product at a fair price. the lowest price is not always the best but you have already stated you don't care about service as with a great product you aren't likely to need it. Unfortunately to get the distribution you had to guarantee service and since shipping back was not an option it had to be built here.
You might feel you are competing in the market place short term but in reality businesses that offer only the deal price seldom last long term.
Consumers generally want the full service approach.
Many businesses have good better best quality to compete for differing market shares fortunately the companies we are discussing will not handle crap to just meet the pricing only criteria which seems to be important to a few shoppers.
You get what you pay for and if you stop supporting local business they willl disappear and take the jobs and advertising with them to the biggest market in the world. if we can't or won't learn from history it continues to repeat itself. Good bye Canadian business, if you can't compete go away. You deserve it for thinking you could make a mark up on an foreign product rather than building a factory and competing against them which has proven to be impossible.
Soon we won't have to worry about it as Wallymart wil be the only game in Canada. You are right in one aspect, we deserve what we get so without Canadian pride we might as well sell out to the inevitable.

Fair price is relative. Charging 30-40% (or up to 200%!) is not 'fair'. 5-20% I can live with as stated. Consumers will 'generally' live with what the retailers dictate to them, because they can't be bothered, are too lazy to shop around, or are beaten down. Generally, generalities aren't accurate anyway, mine or yours. And I'm not discussing crap products here, I'm talking identical products, built in the same place, but marketed differently. Competitive, free market capitlistic retailing in the USA, and protectionist, exlusive distributorship pricing in Canada. Price difference of 37% or more, and don't give me the 'customer service' spiel, because the optics suppliers in the USA who handle Leupold will also give good customer service, you make it sound like you can only get good customer service by paying an extravagent premium on the same product. Horse puckey.

[wwbirds]

because the optics suppliers in the USA who handle Leupold will also give good customer service,

Only if you live in the US or can get it back to the US for service, Canada will not service product sourced in the US after November 2010.

with export restrictions let's see how that goes for you if you ever need something. After shipping the scope back and paying for a permit to re export to Canada after service lets see how you fare financially and on the timing getting it back in under 90 days which is the time it currently takes to get a permit out of the State department. (or one hunting season)

Korth is assuming all that responsibility in Canada for those that buy in Canada by doing the repairs in 3 days for those that need it. You may never need it for as you say they seldom break down but if I am buying a Leupold on the forum I am asking where it was bought and checking ser #'s with Korth for Canadian warrenty which add value to me while US only repairs potentially could cost money. Comes down to pay now or pay later as I have had Leupolds for 30 years and while I have never had one fail I have had springs weaken so to save coming back in another 5 years for something else they just replaced everything on a 27 year old scope. Peace of mind and speed is worth the extra money to me but not to some others so be it. to each their own.
Rob
p.s I am not selling anything but have been what I feel is a good loyal Leupold customer for 30 years and have been treated extremely well by Korth group since Jim was a one man show operating out of his house.
As an aside I think anyone who thinks a country with less than 3% of world wide sales is going to impact manufacturer is not being very realistic.
Good luck

[Twisted Canuck]

Sounds like I have more confidence in the product I'm buying, than you do in the one you're selling. I have had at least 10 Leupold scopes, currently still have 4, expecting the 5th any time now, and never had an issue. Ever. That's why I like them, they are a great product, and why I'm willing to pay a fair price for them. But not an inflated one. As far as service goes, if I ever do need it, I'll get it, no worries there. Heck, for the money I save buying 5 scopes at a fair price, I can throw one away if it craps out, and still be money ahead on buying the 'serviceable ones' here! I'm smart enough to handle that, and patient enough to wait if need be. The whole threat of 'non service' if not purchased through Korth is just a bit of protectionist leverage, to scare the average consumer into paying a premium for a product that in all likelihood will never need servicing. But I'm sure it's good for margins to let the consumer know that you won't service their product unless they bought it from you.

As an aside, focusing on the optics bit here is having tunnel vision. This happens with more products than you can shake a stick at. I predict that things will change down the road, when the consumer gets tired of being manipulated, and vote with their dollars elsewhere.

[eastcoast]

I was looking at the new jeep grand cherokee a week or so ago, but if the differential in prices stays where it is I may just fly to vegas next year and pick up a used one (2011) with few miles and save myself 20g.

[winged1]

You are right in one aspect, we deserve what we get so without Canadian pride we might as well sell out to the inevitable.

Let the free market rule for us poor people.[/QUOTE]

the 'free market' will bend you over it' knee and slap you till your blind. Then you'll riot in the streets because your dollar won't buy you a loaf of bread. But hey, you had a good time getting there.

[Christofficer]

The duties scam is also present on the net.

You need to look up on the internet as to if your item is duty free under NAFTA. You may be due to get a refund. I tried once...got charged $5 duty. Sent the receipt and a note and description of the item...I got $5 back in the mail from the Government of Canada.

Just because you are charged duty...does not mean it is warranted.Alright, thanks for the heads up I really appreciate it and will look into it. Thanks!

[greylynx]

Let the free market rule for us poor people.

the 'free market' will bend you over it' knee and slap you till your blind. Then you'll riot in the streets because your dollar won't buy you a loaf of bread. But hey, you had a good time getting there.[/QUOTE]

So Oil prices in Canada should be regulated like the days of the NEP?

The only people who did not suffer from the NEP were civil servants.

Civil servants actually had raises in their pay in Alberta during the NEP.

God bless socialism.

[fordtruckin]

Businesses are also getting ripped off by our American "friends"... They figure they can make us pay more and obviously businesses are getting sucked into that void also. It does not make it right...just shows how bad it is. Businesses need to find a way to get the US suppliers to charge them the same. Psychologically we in Canada have gotten too use to paying more because of the exchange. When we went to par and beyond...the suppliers make greater and greater profits...and are loving it cause businesses here don't seem to be savvy enough to fight for their customers. IMHO

Then go find another country to import your goods from. Who says you HAVE TO buy everything from the States? I'd care to take a guess that for how Proud and perfect canadians view themselves, they are jealous of someone else.:fighting0030:


That is bogus as we are no worse a market than Montana, Idaho, Washington...putting a geographical line when we have NAFTA allowing for free trade is a cop out IMHO. They are hosing us...and we say thanks for selling it too us...sorry we have to pay more and please...oh please...kick us again..

I thought the post you were responding to concerned the fact that in the States they may sell 1000000 firearms, where as in canada only 10000. I dare say with regards to firearms, there are more in Montana, Idaho and Washington then in all of canada. The market may not be worse, but simply look at the minimum wage. Most people in the states make that, minimum wage. How many people in Alberta can say they are making minimum wage?AND what is the difference between the two minimum wages. Its simple the prices have to be lower in areas where not as much money is earned.


QUOTE=twisted canuck;891655]Fair price is relative. Charging 30-40% (or up to 200%!) is not 'fair'. 5-20% I can live with as stated. Consumers will 'generally' live with what the retailers dictate to them, because they can't be bothered, are too lazy to shop around, or are beaten down. Generally, generalities aren't accurate anyway, mine or yours. And I'm not discussing crap products here, I'm talking identical products, built in the same place, but marketed differently. Competitive, free market capitlistic retailing in the USA, and protectionist, exlusive distributorship pricing in Canada. Price difference of 37% or more, and don't give me the 'customer service' spiel, because the optics suppliers in the USA who handle Leupold will also give good customer service, you make it sound like you can only get good customer service by paying an extravagent premium on the same product. Horse puckey.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps if you paid people in canada the same wages as their counter parts in the states you could create this "Equality" you are looking for. If I build a product for a 10$ and have to pay my 5 employees who make it 5$, I'm out 15$. Now you buy the product for 15$ up in canada but your employee makes 15$ instead of the 5$ made by the US Counter part. Your out 15$, so you the canadian would have to jack the price up to say 45$ to make a profit. It all comes down to the cost of living and simple economics. Why do you think so many companies are building factories in India china vietnam ect... because they have cheap labor and their standard of living is considerably lower. There is no way Canada can compete with that.

[Sundancefisher]

I thought the post you were responding to concerned the fact that in the States they may sell 1000000 firearms, where as in canada only 10000. I dare say with regards to firearms, there are more in Montana, Idaho and Washington then in all of canada. The market may not be worse, but simply look at the minimum wage. Most people in the states make that, minimum wage. How many people in Alberta can say they are making minimum wage?AND what is the difference between the two minimum wages. Its simple the prices have to be lower in areas where not as much money is earned.


QUOTE=twisted canuck;891655]Fair price is relative. Charging 30-40% (or up to 200%!) is not 'fair'. 5-20% I can live with as stated. Consumers will 'generally' live with what the retailers dictate to them, because they can't be bothered, are too lazy to shop around, or are beaten down. Generally, generalities aren't accurate anyway, mine or yours. And I'm not discussing crap products here, I'm talking identical products, built in the same place, but marketed differently. Competitive, free market capitlistic retailing in the USA, and protectionist, exlusive distributorship pricing in Canada. Price difference of 37% or more, and don't give me the 'customer service' spiel, because the optics suppliers in the USA who handle Leupold will also give good customer service, you make it sound like you can only get good customer service by paying an extravagent premium on the same product. Horse puckey.

Perhaps if you paid people in canada the same wages as their counter parts in the states you could create this "Equality" you are looking for. If I build a product for a 10$ and have to pay my 5 employees who make it 5$, I'm out 15$. Now you buy the product for 15$ up in canada but your employee makes 15$ instead of the 5$ made by the US Counter part. Your out 15$, so you the canadian would have to jack the price up to say 45$ to make a profit. It all comes down to the cost of living and simple economics. Why do you think so many companies are building factories in India china vietnam ect... because they have cheap labor and their standard of living is considerably lower. There is no way Canada can compete with that.[/QUOTE]

If the product is already made in the US and just sold in Canada...who cares what a Canadian wage is? If they have a manufacturing operation in the US and a separate one in Canada...then I can understand where you are coming from. Otherwise...the product's manufacturing cost has not changed...there is no duty applicable...then why are people arguing it is fair for a US company to charge 50% more for the same item in Canada?

Supply and demand principles are that if people will pay it...they will charge it...but it is so astounding how many argue they should pay it.

Quite frankly I am amazed people are arguing how fair it is to pay more. Simply put...it clearly answers why we get ripped off...cause obviously too many people are happily getting bent over and saying thanks...

So it is our collective faults.

Thanks

Sun

[Twisted Canuck]

But it's patriotic to pay a premium to subsidize business in Canada, Sun....:scared0018: Oh, never mind. Pay what you want people, as much as you can. If it makes you feel better, you can hire me and pay me more too....

[wwbirds]

Sundance you stilll talking about ToysRUs because if that is the comparison you are comparing apples to oranges. ToyrUs Canada is a franchise so some Canadian paid probably $250,000. to market under that name and then had to build an approriate building to the head companies specifications. so lets say for arguments sake they have $1,000,000. invested before they sell their first toy. Most toys are not made in the US even if imported from the US they are subject to duty according to the country of origin.

There is a broker on the border charging ToyrUS canada for the product clearing customs and paying duty and gst along with his fees. Alberta Bigbore probably brought a whole truckload of them in from the US so add in freight charges. Those people you see selling retail in the store don't work for $8. an hour and all have to have EI, health care etc. So now mr Canada ToysrUS is paying an acccountant to do payroll and keep the federal deductions straight. The building needs heat power insurance andwater as well as suppplies from an office and advertising in canada so add a little more mark up. You can never compare prices with a US retailer to a Canadian one they have more expensive start up and operating costs in this country. Welcome to Canada.

It is quite funny to see not business people who think retailers "pick a price from the air to sell a product" they have detailed estimates of costs and sales and projections which allow them to market everything to a margin that will allow them to cover costs and make a profit. It is not magic nor mumbo jumbo it is based on accounting principles which will allow them to stay in business after paying costs.
Let me see where is the journal entry for gouging Canadians so I can add 15 %. if your price differs substantially from another Canadian retailer in the same product marketplace you won't survive your first year.

[Guides]

Worried

I Live on the border of the CANADA/U.S...it is a 2 min. drive to the States...I save at least $1.50 a gallon on imported Canadian gas bought in the States then brought back to Canada in my tank... POLARIS parts shipped to a friend (in the States) at the border then taxxxed at customs...are still half price..Trucks /Cars we all bye in the states and import (tax +import vehicle tax) we save 25% or more...Lumber goes by (100 or more train cars at time from Canada to the States) yet we bye all are lumber in the States for 25%-40% less brought back into Canada and taxxed.. the U.S. TAKES ALL OUR WATER,TREES,GOLD,DIAMONDS, FISH,and GAME.......WHAT IN THE HELL IS GOING ON .....STOP GIVING THE U.S. ALL ARE STUFF!!!!!

[winged1]

Worried

I Live on the border of the CANADA/U.S...it is a 2 min. drive to the States...I save at least $1.50 a gallon on imported Canadian gas bought in the States then brought back to Canada in my tank... POLARIS parts shipped to a friend (in the States) at the border then taxxxed at customs...are still half price..Trucks /Cars we all bye in the states and import (tax +import vehicle tax) we save 25% or more...Lumber goes by (100 or more train cars at time from Canada to the States) yet we bye all are lumber in the States for 25%-40% less brought back into Canada and taxxed.. the U.S. TAKES ALL OUR WATER,TREES,GOLD,DIAMONDS, FISH,and GAME.......WHAT IN THE HELL IS GOING ON .....STOP GIVING THE U.S. ALL ARE STUFF!!!!!

you think? If we would only get off our duffs and start creating commerce, we'd be in control, but hey, it's easier to save a buck today then invest in our economy for tomorrow.

[Sundancefisher]

Sundance you stilll talking about ToysRUs because if that is the comparison you are comparing apples to oranges. ToyrUs Canada is a franchise so some Canadian paid probably $250,000. to market under that name and then had to build an approriate building to the head companies specifications. so lets say for arguments sake they have $1,000,000. invested before they sell their first toy. Most toys are not made in the US even if imported from the US they are subject to duty according to the country of origin.

There is a broker on the border charging ToyrUS canada for the product clearing customs and paying duty and gst along with his fees. Alberta Bigbore probably brought a whole truckload of them in from the US so add in freight charges. Those people you see selling retail in the store don't work for $8. an hour and all have to have EI, health care etc. So now mr Canada ToysrUS is paying an acccountant to do payroll and keep the federal deductions straight. The building needs heat power insurance andwater as well as suppplies from an office and advertising in canada so add a little more mark up. You can never compare prices with a US retailer to a Canadian one they have more expensive start up and operating costs in this country. Welcome to Canada.

It is quite funny to see not business people who think retailers "pick a price from the air to sell a product" they have detailed estimates of costs and sales and projections which allow them to market everything to a margin that will allow them to cover costs and make a profit. It is not magic nor mumbo jumbo it is based on accounting principles which will allow them to stay in business after paying costs.
Let me see where is the journal entry for gouging Canadians so I can add 15 %. if your price differs substantially from another Canadian retailer in the same product marketplace you won't survive your first year.

Where is this information on ToysRus franchisees? So what you are saying as a business person is that to have a franchise if there is such a thing means selling the product for 40-50% more here than in the US? That seems kinda odd.

[wwbirds]

Search Google for ToysRUs Franchises. A franchise in 1990 was worth $175,000. US so my price example may not be far off. there are many other examples. I think a small town MacDonalds franchise I was told is over $1 million. Franchises are everywhere in Canada just like exclusive distributions you get product and help in managing directing your business but have to market goods for more than they sell in US to get your investment back.
You pay up front to get in and then pay a royalty or a percentage of earnings while using the name.
Unless you are going to operate at a loss in Canda out of the goodness of your heart it is a fact it costs money to operate here and yes considerably more than the US.

[wwbirds]

Search Google for ToysRUs Franchises. A franchise in 1990 was worth $175,000. US so my price example may not be far off. there are many other examples. I think a small town MacDonalds franchise I was told is over $1 million. Franchises are everywhere in Canada just like exclusive distributions you get product and help in managing directing your business but have to market goods for more than they sell in US to get your investment back.
You pay up front to get in and then pay a royalty or a percentage of earnings while using the name.
Unless you are going to operate at a loss in Canda out of the goodness of your heart it is a fact it costs money to operate here and yes considerably more than the US.

So what you are saying as a business person is that to have a franchise if there is such a thing

Walk down a mall in Calgary and many if not most businesses will be a licenced franchise of an American company in order to operate here. Burger joints to clothing shops most originated in the US and are licenced by a Canadian to operate here paying a royalty to the US parent company in addition to major upfront costs.

[fordtruckin]

.. the U.S. TAKES ALL OUR WATER,TREES,GOLD,DIAMONDS, FISH,and GAME.......WHAT IN THE HELL IS GOING ON .....STOP GIVING THE U.S. ALL ARE STUFF!!!!!

ONce again, Canada isn't a giant consuming nation like the US is. If you want the entire economy to collapse then Yes. Stop selling it down south. See how fast things go downhill if you stop exporting your products to a nation that will buy them. :snapoutofit:

[Blade]

well everyone....when i first entered bass pro when it first opened here in calgary they gave me a bag of catalogs and explained the price difference on the US dollar......i recently priced expensive hunting gear through their website and noticed a large price difference and called the manager....he couldnt explain the difference and did offer to match the the price although basspro is a us company its employees are canadian ....and they are happy to keep buissness here!!!:sHa_shakeshout:

[elkhunter11]

The market may not be worse, but simply look at the minimum wage. Most people in the states make that, minimum wage.

According to the link below, the average anual wage in the USA is around $40,000.That works out to over $20 per hour for a 40 hour week. Is the minimum wage anywhere near $20 per hour in the USA?


http://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/AWI.html

Some more data showing wages by state.

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oessrcst.htm

That data also shows that if most people in the USA are making minimum wage, their minimum wage must be much higher than ours. Below are the minimum wages in Canada.

http://canadaonline.about.com/od/labourstandards/a/minimum-wage-in-canada.htm

[eastcoast]

they charge it because we will pay it, the buyer sets the price, nobody buys they have to lower it or somebody else will.

I remember calling a place in montana a few years agout a quad, at the time it was $8200 here in edmonton, it was $5600 in montana and the guy told me half the quads going out the door were going to calgary.in the long run it will be bad for dealerships etc cause the more people get used to going stateside the more willing they will go again, and they will lose even more business.

[mark007]

its all about population not how much they make!

[eastcoast]

its all about population not how much they make!
there are less than 1/2 million people in montana, and the guy told me that his quads came in through vancouver then down to montana.

[winged1]

ONce again, Canada isn't a giant consuming nation like the US is. If you want the entire economy to collapse then Yes. Stop selling it down south. See how fast things go downhill if you stop exporting your products to a nation that will buy them. :snapoutofit:

So how nicely things improve if your add value to your products here, before selling it internationally.

[fordtruckin]

According to the link below, the average anual wage in the USA is around $40,000.That works out to over $20 per hour for a 40 hour week. Is the minimum wage anywhere near $20 per hour in the USA?


http://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/AWI.html

Some more data showing wages by state.

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oessrcst.htm

That data also shows that if most people in the USA are making minimum wage, their minimum wage must be much higher than ours. Below are the minimum wages in Canada.

http://canadaonline.about.com/od/labourstandards/a/minimum-wage-in-canada.htm

I WISH the minimum wage in the US was over 20$ an hour. Federal Minimum wage in the States is $7.25. Individual states may have higher or lower minimum wages if they wish. TO date the highest minimum wage in the US is Washington state at $8.67. A far cry from $20/hr

[Kim473]

The canadian government has got to tax every thing. 1/2 the population and 2 X the size of the government. Two assistants for every position. We pay twice the taxes in Canada compared to the States. Remember the words GST. We have to pay them pensions after two terms, even if they are only age 40. Our dollar is more than the USA dollar now but prices are still going up and not down ??????? Ever here of anyone in any type of Government postion get suspended without pay ??? I would gladly tell my boss off if I could get payed for it and not have to work.

[Sundancefisher]

The canadian government has got to tax every thing. 1/2 the population and 2 X the size of the government. Two assistants for every position. We pay twice the taxes in Canada compared to the States. Remember the words GST. We have to pay them pensions after two terms, even if they are only age 40. Our dollar is more than the USA dollar now but prices are still going up and not down ??????? Ever here of anyone in any type of Government postion get suspended without pay ??? I would gladly tell my boss off if I could get payed for it and not have to work.

I believe if you compare all taxes and service charges we are not that different from our US counterparts. I did that once...comparing actual take home income and we are very similar. Unfortunately when people do the stats they often leave out costs...like for us...health care costs are included in our taxes...in the US they are not to the same extent.

Where there is some difference needed...I have to admit it is fair. Our infrastructure costs in Canada are much higher do to the size of the country in relation to our population. You can drive long distances in Canada without towns or cities...in the US...every turn seems to have a town with a gun store :bad_boys_20:

[eastcoast]

corpotate taxes in the us are 35%, in canada they are 18% and may go to 16% if the conservatives get a majority, we are getting hosed no matter what way you look at it, we pay it because we are willing to pay it, nobody is going to drop prices without pressure from consumers.

[Sundancefisher]

According to the link below, the average anual wage in the USA is around $40,000.That works out to over $20 per hour for a 40 hour week. Is the minimum wage anywhere near $20 per hour in the USA?


http://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/AWI.html

Some more data showing wages by state.

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oessrcst.htm

That data also shows that if most people in the USA are making minimum wage, their minimum wage must be much higher than ours. Below are the minimum wages in Canada.

http://canadaonline.about.com/od/labourstandards/a/minimum-wage-in-canada.htm

http://www.livingin-canada.com/work-salaries-wages-canada.html

The general fact is that you make more money in the US than in Canada.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Canada

Comparison of taxes paid by a household earning the country's average wage (as of 2005), including social security contributions paid by employer

Country_________ Single no children___________ Married 2 Children
Canada _________ 31.6% ___________ 21.5%
United States _________ 29.1% ___________ 11.9%

Understanding that a buddy of mine pays for his own families health insurance >$20,000/year...his take home is less than mine by quite a bit.

[fordtruckin]

http://canadaonline.about.com/od/labourstandards/a/minimum-wage-in-canada.htm[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Sundancefisher;893573]http://www.livingin-canada.com/work-salaries-wages-canada.html

The general fact is that you make more money in the US than in Canada.


That website says "This rise, in combination with the strengthening Canadian dollar, has pushed the average salary in Canada higher than in the UK, the USA and most of Europe. (Between January 2007 and January 2011, the US dollar fell 15 percent, the British pound fell 32 percent and the euro fell 11 percent against the Canadian dollar." Doesnt' that mean you make more in Canada??

[elkhunter11]

I WISH the minimum wage in the US was over 20$ an hour. Federal Minimum wage in the States is $7.25. Individual states may have higher or lower minimum wages if they wish. TO date the highest minimum wage in the US is Washington state at $8.67. A far cry from $20/hr


You just proved my point.Given that the numbers show that the average wage in the USA is around $20 per hour, it is quite obvious that contrary to what you posted previously, most Americans do not work for the minimum wage.

That website says "This rise, in combination with the strengthening Canadian dollar, has pushed the average salary in Canada higher than in the UK, the USA and most of Europe. (Between January 2007 and January 2011, the US dollar fell 15 percent, the British pound fell 32 percent and the euro fell 11 percent against the Canadian dollar." Doesnt' that mean you make more in Canada??


We also pay much more in income tax, which evens things out.

[fordtruckin]

We also pay much more in income tax, which evens things out.

Sounds like a Canadian government problem!

[Sundancefisher]

http://canadaonline.about.com/od/labourstandards/a/minimum-wage-in-canada.htm

http://www.livingin-canada.com/work-salaries-wages-canada.html

The general fact is that you make more money in the US than in Canada.


That website says "This rise, in combination with the strengthening Canadian dollar, has pushed the average salary in Canada higher than in the UK, the USA and most of Europe. (Between January 2007 and January 2011, the US dollar fell 15 percent, the British pound fell 32 percent and the euro fell 11 percent against the Canadian dollar." Doesnt' that mean you make more in Canada??

Ummm... Yes in terms of US dollars... But not by a huge margin. While the buying power in Canada may be slightly better than the US... as consumers...why on Earth would you argue that since our dollar is worth more...that we should pay more than a person in the US would pay? Currently the reason is that people for some insane reason seem conterintuitive to proper consumerism by trying to find excuses to may more.

While I feel Canadians are just as capitalistic entreprenures as Americans, we are way poorer consumers. Where people in the US will go out of their way to buy gas cheaper...here in Calgary or Edmonton...we seem to care less. That means we get treated worse.

Do you understand what I am getting at?

[elkhunter11]

Sounds like a Canadian government problem!

That is a poor attempt to avoid the fact that most Americans do not work for the minimum wage, and that the difference in disposable income after taxes is quite similar between Americans, and Canadians. As such, the idea that Canadians make more, so they should pay more, has no merit.

For the most part,Canadians face higher prices, because many Canadians are willing to pay too much, by not shopping around for the best deals. Big business knows this to be true, so they don't hesitate to take advantage of the situation.

[Kim473]

corpotate taxes in the us are 35%, in canada they are 18% and may go to 16% if the conservatives get a majority, we are getting hosed no matter what way you look at it, we pay it because we are willing to pay it, nobody is going to drop prices without pressure from consumers.

I highly doubt that. They need to take more taxes from corps and less from the average house hold. More money in the average persons pocket and they will spend it thus driving profits up with more sales.