Pay Law

[Dennis780]

I have been looking around online for some information on this, with little success. I'm hoping someone out there knows the answer. My employer makes changes to our timesheets after they are sent into the office. Is that legal?

I'll be as clear as possible about what is happening, to avoid confusion. As a well tester, I am paid on a day rate. X amount of dollars per day, no matter how long I work. If my name is on the ticket I get paid the same. What has been happening, over the last 6 months, is my employer has started to 'cut out' some of the nicer benefits to this.

If I work on two sites in one day, I am charged out on two tickets, so I get paid double for that day (this has been changed, so no matter where you work, and no matter how many tickets, you get one day rate).

When our vessel is on location, but the work is delayed, a standby ticket is signed (a reduced price, but compensation as the tank could be elsewhere getting paid). Workers were paid as well during this period, however, this also has changed so that workers are no longer paid on standby tickets (the price of the ticket didn't change, just employee's getting a piece did).

When I started, this company would pay non-chargable km's from home to the shop. This also has been removed, so I have to eat the costs of travelling to and from (not the end of the world however).

These things, among others, have accumulated into a very big problem for the company, in that many of the employees, myself included, feel like we're not contacted about changes made to our timesheets, as well as the administrative changes that are effecting our pay.

Any help?

Thanks,
Dennis

I'm mostly curious about the timesheet situation. Three times this year my cheque has been reduced, making it difficult to figure out where the change was made (my wife is more frustrated, she's our family accountant, lol).

[stinkynuts]

Do you have anything in witeing that states the way you are to be paid . It sounds pretty gretty on the part of the Company to jsut start makeing changes in reguards to pay and not even sit the employes down to discuss . it does sound like to company is with in the right to just pay you a day rate no matter how many jobs/ tickets where done but it is pretty shady the way they are going about it .

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

I hope you made copies of all your time sheets/inputs

then, check your contract

in lieu of contracts, "Past Practices" rules

contact your labour board representative. Unless you agreed to it, your employer cannot make "Changes" to your signed documents.

that is Fraud, and is a criminal offense.

If the Labour board says you have no contest regarding the reduced pay, go to the local RCMP and swear out a complaint, as Fraud is a "Federal" crime, and they can interview ALL employees.

if they are doing it to one, they are probably doing it to ALL.

You need to get others on board if you can, but if not, you should still go it alone, as you will be protecting others.

Good Luck

[Off in the Bushes]

First thing you need to do is talk to your employeer see if it is a general mistake then if you are not getting the answer you want talk to thier boss. Applying progressive stronger pressure until you get your desired results. Lastly work to rule.

[reelhooker]

I quite often change my employees timesheets. But I only talk to them when I am taking time off-you would be surprised how often they "forget" sick days or long weekends.
I've had one guy who took a week in mexico but still had detailes on his timesheet of what he "did" while he was gone . now he knows that I view that as theft.
I however will only discuss it with the employee when I remove hours. I never bother when I add time on. I have never had anyone complain for adding hours they forgot. 85% of the time I change someones hours, it is because they forget to bill for something. They are lucky I never forget. But whether or not it is legal- and I'm sure it is, it is moraly wrong to do what they are doing. Also make sure you are keeping exact copies of what is submitted.
RH

[moosemad]

I have been looking around online for some information on this, with little success. I'm hoping someone out there knows the answer. My employer makes changes to our timesheets after they are sent into the office. Is that legal?

I'll be as clear as possible about what is happening, to avoid confusion. As a well tester, I am paid on a day rate. X amount of dollars per day, no matter how long I work. If my name is on the ticket I get paid the same. What has been happening, over the last 6 months, is my employer has started to 'cut out' some of the nicer benefits to this.

If I work on two sites in one day, I am charged out on two tickets, so I get paid double for that day (this has been changed, so no matter where you work, and no matter how many tickets, you get one day rate).

When our vessel is on location, but the work is delayed, a standby ticket is signed (a reduced price, but compensation as the tank could be elsewhere getting paid). Workers were paid as well during this period, however, this also has changed so that workers are no longer paid on standby tickets (the price of the ticket didn't change, just employee's getting a piece did).

When I started, this company would pay non-chargable km's from home to the shop. This also has been removed, so I have to eat the costs of travelling to and from (not the end of the world however).

These things, among others, have accumulated into a very big problem for the company, in that many of the employees, myself included, feel like we're not contacted about changes made to our timesheets, as well as the administrative changes that are effecting our pay.

Any help?

Thanks,
Dennis

I'm mostly curious about the timesheet situation. Three times this year my cheque has been reduced, making it difficult to figure out where the change was made (my wife is more frustrated, she's our family accountant, lol).

Welcome to the real world, this is the wave a lot of companies are catching now, the more they save the company the more they pay themselves (bonus'etc) Pretty sure they can't do it without advance notice and almost positive they can't change your hours.

[coreya3212]

It sucks for sure but unless you have things in writing, an employer can change how things are paid, provided they are doing it to everyone and not singling you out specifically. I personally have been to a labor lawyer a couple times for "clarification" on a couple different matters, and basically they can do what they want. You in turn can accept or reject changes. A rejection meaning, you quit and then sue for the lost wages, which you may or may not get depending on a lot of factors. My lawyer used to charge 300 bucks for a consult, meaning an hour to ask questions etc, then a thousand retainer and then a ungodly hourly rate. Even if you are right in principle, the economics seldom work out. Good luck regardless.

[Grizzly Adams]

My first thought would be, Financial Pressure on the company, or why would they try to squeeze a few more bucks out of their employees?

Grizz

[rugatika]

this sort of thing happened to me once before. Some weasel manager decided he was going to get rid of previous benefits that we had (truck for personal use, etc etc). Perfectly in his right to do so. I quit and went and got a job somewhere else. It wasn't so much that the benefits he took away were that great...it was the principle of the matter. THey were benefits that were promised to us on a handshake.

Sounds like you have a job that requires a certain skill level. It is in the company's best interests to retain quality employees. Just keep in mind that there is likely a bit of a boom coming again...not sure how big it will be, but I suspect the employee market is going to tighten up a bit in the near future. I wouldn't want to be ****ing off my employees right now. Managers like that are usually the one's whining about being stuck with crappy employees with a high turnaround, and they can't figure out why. lol.

If I were you I'd be shopping for another job right now.

[BlackHeart]

To differ with what one person has said about fraud.......whose timesheets are they truly?.......not yours, even though you fill them out.....they are company property, company paperwork, company rules.....therefore they can do as they please with them. And if you think about it from the opposite side, do you really want to be considered for fraud when you make a mistake on a timesheet that you signed.

That being said, if they are actually cheating you out of agreed to hours or pay (that is within the rules), then that is a seperate matter......but I suspect that a look-the-other-way generous practice of double day rates and mileage from home has been brought to attention and has ended. You would have no legal leg to stand on here.

If the foreman is singling you out for harsher treatment..again a different matter.

And even if this has been the normal practice, employers can give notice to go back to the letter of the contract....or without a contract, they can clarify the rules.

Be careful here.....in fact the company could decide that you have been overpaid by the ERRORs in you filling out your timesheet and mileage claims and they would have good legal recourse to recoup this pay. Happens all the time....an employee filling out timesheets wrong and being paid wrong, only to be discovered a year later....painfully adjustments.

[Redfrog]

Go talk to your employer. Have a list of concerns so you don't forget one. ask the questions and get the answers.

[NorthernAbGuy]

It sounds like it's time for you to call a sit down with your employer/ manager. Talk to other employees, see if they are all feeling the same way, otherwise you may look like an instigator ( the crazy guy). When you talk to the other employees, write down all the concerns that everyone feels are legit. Then get everyone together, the boss, the employees, the payroll clerk, etc. Write down the responses that your employer has to your concerns, and any resolutions that they promise, try and include everyone in the process. Keep a level head, don't let your emotions get the better of you during this process. When it's all said and done, you should have the answers to your concerns. It may be that there are simply some signals crossed somewhere, or there may be some changes being made by your employer to the way they do business. When it's all said & done, hopefully everyone still respects one another, if not, it's up to you to decide what's best for YOU to do, stick it out, or tune up the resume.

[wonka]

I have been looking around online for some information on this, with little success. I'm hoping someone out there knows the answer. My employer makes changes to our timesheets after they are sent into the office. Is that legal?

I'll be as clear as possible about what is happening, to avoid confusion. As a well tester, I am paid on a day rate. X amount of dollars per day, no matter how long I work. If my name is on the ticket I get paid the same. What has been happening, over the last 6 months, is my employer has started to 'cut out' some of the nicer benefits to this.
so you work one day but want to paid for two??

If I work on two sites in one day, I am charged out on two tickets, so I get paid double for that day (this has been changed, so no matter where you work, and no matter how many tickets, you get one day rate).

When our vessel is on location, but the work is delayed, a standby ticket is signed (a reduced price, but compensation as the tank could be elsewhere getting paid). Workers were paid as well during this period, however, this also has changed so that workers are no longer paid on standby tickets (the price of the ticket didn't change, just employee's getting a piece did).
You must be getting paid a minimum hourly rate,

When I started, this company would pay non-chargable km's from home to the shop. This also has been removed, so I have to eat the costs of travelling to and from (not the end of the world however).
Maybe they went through an audit, it is a taxable benefit, I'll bet that you've never declared.

These things, among others, have accumulated into a very big problem for the company, in that many of the employees, myself included, feel like we're not contacted about changes made to our timesheets, as well as the administrative changes that are effecting our pay.

Might be a lot smaller problem for them in the near future, those :angry3:****ed enough about losing their "benefits" might look elsewhere for greener grass

Any help?

Thanks,
Dennis



I'm mostly curious about the timesheet situation. Three times this year my cheque has been reduced, making it difficult to figure out where the change was made (my wife is more frustrated, she's our family accountant, lol).

Just saying, I'm guessing you not making 15.00/hour.

[thumper]

Before assuming the worst of intentions from your employer, or get a whole bunch of people riled up by forming a 'committee of concerned employees', make an appt with your supervisor, sit down in private, and discuss your concerns in a polite, repectful manner. Be sure to include not only the changes - but the lack of communications from management regarding those changes. Employment is a contract, ask if they believe you've changed anything about how you approach your end of that contract.
99% of the time, poor communications is the real problem.

[KegRiver]

We faced pretty much the same situation on my job, and much much much more.


I am not free to tell all. But I assure you that we have looked at ALL our legal options. What we found was that if WE can gather all the necessary evidence and take it to court, then and only then will the government do something.
And what they will do is take over the case, and then plea bargain the whole thing down to a slap on the wrist, leaving us with a huge legal bill and no justice.

Bottom line, grin and bear it.

One other thing. Think about what happened to the people who brought the Ad-scam thing to light. You remember, Chretien and the Quebec Ad companies, Gomery Commission, the Sponsorship scandal.

It is a warning to the rest of us.

[nsmitchell]

Talk to your employer andfindout if the changes are on purpose or an error. If they are on purpose, you are free to find new employment. The boom is coming and there'll be many opportunities.

[Joe Fehr]

Sorry bud your paid on a daily rate not on a per ticket basis. Just because the company gets paid twice for your services doesn't mean they are going to pay you twice.

I come from the Testing industry and I know the frustrations with this. The only recourse you may have might be to show precedence to the labour board but good luck with that one. The day rate pay schedule is a tricky one to deal with.

[Okotokian]

Before assuming the worst of intentions from your employer, or get a whole bunch of people riled up by forming a 'committee of concerned employees', make an appt with your supervisor, sit down in private, and discuss your concerns in a polite, repectful manner. Be sure to include not only the changes - but the lack of communications from management regarding those changes. Employment is a contract, ask if they believe you've changed anything about how you approach your end of that contract.
99% of the time, poor communications is the real problem.

Thsi is the best advice offered. Don't pick a fight or rally the troops unless you are prepared to walk out the door.