Wild Mare Killing Case on Shaky Footing

[yukon12]

http://www.calgarysun.com/news/alberta/2011/04/05/17883591.html

New developments in the case of three men charged with killing a wild mare could see charges dropped, defence lawyers hinted Tuesday.

The week-long trial of the trio, which was originally set to begin Monday, was postponed after new, unexplained evidence emerged.

And lawyers for two of the three men said outside court they’ve provided new information to the Crown which they hope will clear their clients.

“We’ve given some very important evidence to the Crown they need to consider,” defence counsel Willie de Wit said following a brief court appearance.

De Wit, who acts for Jason John Nixon, said it’s the defence position the information is crucial to the case.

“It’s pretty significant evidence in our estimation,” he said.

Don MacLeod, who represents Earl Gregory Anderson, echoed de Wit’s comments.

And like his co-counsel, MacLeod was coy on providing details on the content of the evidence disclosed to Crown prosecutor Gord Haight.

“I’m not really at liberty to discuss the details around the emergence of the evidence,” MacLeod said.

He declined to reveal whether the information was known to the defence for some time, or just recently came to light.

Nixon, Anderson and Gary Douglas Cape, are charged with wilfully killing cattle and careless use of a firearm in connection with the pregnant mare’s death in 2009.

The delay in the case is frustrating for observers such as Bob Henderson, president of the Wild Horse of Alberta Society.

Henderson said the charges against the trio have brought an end to a string of feral equine shootings, likely due to the publicity surrounding the case.

Henderson said since 2001, there have been 31 wild horses shot to death in the Sundre area.

“It’s frustrating in a way, but our justice system does have to have a chance to work properly,” he said, following the adjournment.

“Since these charges were laid we have had no other horse shootings being reported to our group.”

Henderson estimates there are between 350 and 375 wild horses in the Sundre area.

The case returns to court on April 27, tentatively to set a new trial date.

kevin.martin@sunmedia.ca

[reelhooker]

We talk about helping people out a lot on here. The Henderson's are people I would not help. Ever.

[Grizzly Adams]

We talk about helping people out a lot on here. The Henderson's are people I would not help. Ever.

I have to deal with him, when I go to the UFA. Lot of tongue biting, when that happens.:lol:

Grizz

[big-river]

I like Bob Henderson. He is a good guy, passionate about what he believes is right. He is not malicious nor mean spirited, he would help you if you needed it.
He just views the horse situation differently than I do. Doesn't mean he is a bad person, just misguided.

It's not right to hate a guy because he disagrees with you. I'd help him if he needed it. Just not on the wild horse fiasco.

[Albertadiver]

Henderson estimates there are between 350 and 375 FERAL horses in the Sundre area.



Fixed it for the writer.

[big-river]

Yup. You nailed it. Thanks.

[sheephunter]

Fixed it for the writer.

Need to change that to 1,000 too!

[roger]

as much as i feel that they should be 'removed', it has to be done within the law. it doesnt help the public appeal by these 'poachings'.

[yukon12]

Need to change that to 1,000 too!

Agreed Bob is in the Calgary Hearld now qouted as saying he wants all legal trapping stopped for a few years and that the population is down to 200 horses.

[Jimboy]

http://www.calgarysun.com/news/alberta/2011/04/05/17883591.html

New developments in the case of three men charged with killing a wild mare could see charges dropped, defence lawyers hinted Tuesday.

The week-long trial of the trio, which was originally set to begin Monday, was postponed after new, unexplained evidence emerged.

And lawyers for two of the three men said outside court they’ve provided new information to the Crown which they hope will clear their clients.

“We’ve given some very important evidence to the Crown they need to consider,” defence counsel Willie de Wit said following a brief court appearance.

De Wit, who acts for Jason John Nixon, said it’s the defence position the information is crucial to the case.

“It’s pretty significant evidence in our estimation,” he said.

Don MacLeod, who represents Earl Gregory Anderson, echoed de Wit’s comments.

And like his co-counsel, MacLeod was coy on providing details on the content of the evidence disclosed to Crown prosecutor Gord Haight.

“I’m not really at liberty to discuss the details around the emergence of the evidence,” MacLeod said.

He declined to reveal whether the information was known to the defence for some time, or just recently came to light.

Nixon, Anderson and Gary Douglas Cape, are charged with wilfully killing cattle and careless use of a firearm in connection with the pregnant mare’s death in 2009.

The delay in the case is frustrating for observers such as Bob Henderson, president of the Wild Horse of Alberta Society.

Henderson said the charges against the trio have brought an end to a string of feral equine shootings, likely due to the publicity surrounding the case.

Henderson said since 2001, there have been 31 wild horses shot to death in the Sundre area.

“It’s frustrating in a way, but our justice system does have to have a chance to work properly,” he said, following the adjournment.

“Since these charges were laid we have had no other horse shootings being reported to our group.”

Henderson estimates there are between 350 and 375 wild horses in the Sundre area.

The case returns to court on April 27, tentatively to set a new trial date.

kevin.martin@sunmedia.ca

Talking about as l type on qr77 1039 tues nite

[sheephunter]

as much as i feel that they should be 'removed', it has to be done within the law. it doesnt help the public appeal by these 'poachings'.

Yup, totally agree with that. Hopefully the truth comes out in this most recent case....one way or the other. Although talking with a fellow that was legally trapping horses last year and it seems that some of the horse lovers aren't againt breaking the law in the name of the cause.

[Nester]

Hopefully these scum get caught!

[slough shark]

I was reading in that national post today and they were saying there were only 2-300 of the "wild horses" left in alberta lol. I suppose I must be really good at finding them then because the last time I went elk hunting out around mountainaire lodge I saw over 75 each day on 2 separate days, I guess I found between 25-37.5% of ALL ALBERTA'S WILD HORSES each day :sHa_shakeshout: Those numbers are almost as accurate as Alberta's grizzly count lol.

[sheepguide]

While we all know numbers are alot higher than 2-300 none of us have the actual numbers so pretty tough to say anyone is wrong or right!
SG

[Private Ear]

as much as i feel that they should be 'removed', it has to be done within the law. it doesnt help the public appeal by these 'poachings'.

I am not as well informed on the feral horse numbers or the damage that they do to the elk habitat and so on.

That said, when talking with almost anyone in my day to day dealings, the response of most people on this subject is: OHH NO! Who would do that to those poor little horses!

Public appeal is important and the above is the sentiment that seems prevalent.

[sheepguide]

I am not as well informed on the feral horse numbers or the damage that they do to the elk habitat and so on.

That said, when talking with almost anyone in my day to day dealings, the response of most people on this subject is: OHH NO! Who would do that to those poor little horses!

Public appeal is important and the above is the sentiment that seems prevalent.

You are 100% right. And the members here that keep saying they should open a hunting season and/or shoot them for bear bait and all that jazz and that are pushing hard for total eradication are there own worst enemies. We need population control but their comments only fuel guys like Bob by making it seem that some are heartless towards the animals and that is why they need to be protected. We dont want that, we wanna show how its a win win for all animals and groups. Show how population control will benifit the wildlife populations, and show how lower horse numbers is healthier for them also, and try and get the people that think protection is best, to see that it really isnt. But as long as guys stay blinded by their personal wants and keep talking the way they do these pro horse protection people will eventually get their way by using these types of comments and saying how there are so many heartless people out there wanting to slaughter something that these horses need to be protected from them.
SG

[yukon12]

Hopefully these scum get caught!

Hopefully the right guys get caught

[yukon12]

as much as i feel that they should be 'removed', it has to be done within the law. it doesnt help the public appeal by these 'poachings'.

You are completely correct. This has to be handled within the law or it will just give fuel to anti's to use with the public. Going to be intresting to see how this plays out.

[Matt L.]

You are 100% right. And the members here that keep saying they should open a hunting season and/or shoot them for bear bait and all that jazz and that are pushing hard for total eradication are there own worst enemies. We need population control but their comments only fuel guys like Bob by making it seem that some are heartless towards the animals and that is why they need to be protected. We dont want that, we wanna show how its a win win for all animals and groups. Show how population control will benifit the wildlife populations, and show how lower horse numbers is healthier for them also, and try and get the people that think protection is best, to see that it really isnt. But as long as guys stay blinded by their personal wants and keep talking the way they do these pro horse protection people will eventually get their way by using these types of comments and saying how there are so many heartless people out there wanting to slaughter something that these horses need to be protected from them.
SG

Well said. I think it's a much better idea to redomesticate them, the colts at least. I imagine they'd make pretty good mountain horses sheepguide?

[sheepguide]

Well said. I think it's a much better idea to redomesticate them, the colts at least. I imagine they'd make pretty good mountain horses sheepguide?

They are some of the best saddle horses going. We had a few when I guided trail rides that even kids rode.
SG

[Matt L.]

How hard are they to break? I think I'd like to have one or two someday when I'm done school.

[densa44]

Is it habitat destruction? Do the horses have any value as dude ranch horses or anything other than bait or meet?

Can people "round" them up if they want a "wild" horse?

Is the herd healthy? And finally are they being augmented by people releasing more horses into the wild?

As you can see there is much I don't know, but shooting them would never be a good idea.

[sheepguide]

How hard are they to break? I think I'd like to have one or two someday when I'm done school.

They are actually pretty easy. They have had to fend for their food their hole lives so its easy to get them to be your buddy with the use of feed. Once they figure out what grain is they are yours.

They have a tendancy to kick and bite at first a little more than a straight domestic horse as they have had to defend themselves more in the wild from predators and other horses. And at first they look at you as a threat so they want to defend but once you get their confidence things go smooth.

Biggest difference is most domestic foals are imprinted from birth so they are trusting from the word go. The wild/feral ones you dont get this oppertunity and must start from scratch.

And just like the saying goes... you cant teach an old dog new tricks, the older the horse the tougher it is to do anything with.

SG

[sheepguide]

Is it habitat destruction? Do the horses have any value as dude ranch horses or anything other than bait or meet?
Definatly some would work on dude ranches and such.

Can people "round" them up if they want a "wild" horse?
very very few permits issued to capture horses right now so on the most part no you cant just round one up if you want. And that we need to change.

Is the herd healthy? And finally are they being augmented by people releasing more horses into the wild?
Herds are very healthy in the areas that I travel.

As you can see there is much I don't know, but shooting them would never be a good idea.
And just like you some that think they should be shot know little or nothing about them other than what some have told them.

SG

[densa44]

Knowing more would add a lot to this discussion. Why, if they are Feral, can't people who want one just try and catch a few?

In Newfoundland, the horse owners used to just let the animals go in the fall and they would fend for themselves over the winter and re-appear in the spring, except for being a traffic hazard, the Newfs thought that the system worked out O.K.

How long has this herd been there?

[sheepguide]

Knowing more would add a lot to this discussion. Why, if they are Feral, can't people who want one just try and catch a few?

In Newfoundland, the horse owners used to just let the animals go in the fall and they would fend for themselves over the winter and re-appear in the spring, except for being a traffic hazard, the Newfs thought that the system worked out O.K.

How long has this herd been there?

You will probably get alot of different numbers here, but the horses have been there for well over 100 years some will say up to many hundreds of years.
Many are derived from what you explained above from when the natives and mountain explorers traveled that counrty, and from early outfitters and loggers were operating there and grazing their horses.
Also a few areas were actually used to raise horses, and had alot larger herds than what are there today.

Where the big discrepancy comes is if they come from true wild horses at all originally. There are studies that can be found that can go both ways on this so I can not comment on that. They have been there for a pile of years is all I and most here can really say.

SG

[Grizzly Adams]

Manager of the Mountain Aire, I assume Jason Dixon, was a contributor here, at one time. Would be interesting to get his take, but I don't think that will happen.

Grizz

[Tundra Monkey]

[QUOTE=sheepguide
Where the big discrepancy comes is if they come from true wild horses at all originally. There are studies that can be found that can go both ways on this so I can not comment on that. They have been there for a pile of years is all I and most here can really say. SG[/QUOTE]

Is it not general consensus that the first horses in N. America were brought by the Spanish??

Seriously...I did not know that there were indigenous wild horses here.

tm

[yukon12]

Manager of the Mountain Aire, I assume Jason Dixon, was a contributor here, at one time. Would be interesting to get his take, but I don't think that will happen.

Grizz

You right Jason Nixon use to contribute here under the name bignix. I hope he does come and give his take but I think he is following legal advice right now which I think we all would likely being doing in his shoes. I also agree if he did do this then he just created ammunation for the anit's out there but I have my doubts and will just have to contiune to wait and see.

I think what would be good is once the press dies down from this stuff if a serious conversation and studies happen about numbers and impact. I agree (though I have no problem with it if done legally) that shooting these horses either by hunting or someone just doing it for the heck of it is a bad thing for all hunting activites because of public imaige problems. But other options such as some of the good ones mentioned here should really be looked at and disccussed.

I personally think increased trapping and independent counts to scientifitc studies to determine carrying capacity is a good start.

[sheephunter]

Is it not general consensus that the first horses in N. America were brought by the Spanish??

tm

Post ice age absolutely. The horses here are about as "wild" as cows, chihuahuas and tabby cats.

[sheephunter]

Is the herd healthy? And finally are they being augmented by people releasing more horses into the wild?

.

Healthy for Alberta wildlife? Absolutely not!

Yes, horses are being released to augment herds and improve genetics.

[sheepguide]

Yes, horses are being released to augment herds and improve genetics.

Ya by the truck loads!!!:snapoutofit:
The odd horse for sure does get out there(more from escaping riders than being released and very few of them are ever seen again) but they are very few and far between. Most domestic horses dont make the first winter as they do not know how to survive. The odd mare will survive as they will possibly join a herd but any geldings will be run out and have to hang on there own.
Second there arent to many people that would haul a horse past an Auction Mart to haul them out west because they dont want them any more. How many people that need to get rid of a horse would rather spend the extra dollars in gas to pull a stock trailer that extra distance to get it out west rather than go to an Auction and even get a couple hundred bucks out of it. Even the crappiest horse will bring $50-$100.
SG

[Redfrog]

If they are turning the horse out t is because it is worth meat price.A good horse is always a good horse. So they have a horse that they can't/won't take care of and hasn't been ridden or shod or wormed for years and they take it out and set it 'free' to run with the wildies in the Canadian Rockies instead of going for meat. It eases their conscience.

[AB2506]

You are 100% right. And the members here that keep saying they should open a hunting season and/or shoot them for bear bait and all that jazz and that are pushing hard for total eradication are there own worst enemies. We need population control but their comments only fuel guys like Bob by making it seem that some are heartless towards the animals and that is why they need to be protected. We dont want that, we wanna show how its a win win for all animals and groups. Show how population control will benifit the wildlife populations, and show how lower horse numbers is healthier for them also, and try and get the people that think protection is best, to see that it really isnt. But as long as guys stay blinded by their personal wants and keep talking the way they do these pro horse protection people will eventually get their way by using these types of comments and saying how there are so many heartless people out there wanting to slaughter something that these horses need to be protected from them.
SG

That is your best post on the subject of wild/feral horses. Matter of fact, I think I can support that opinion, and suggest that could be the official AO position!

[sheephunter]

If they are turning the horse out t is because it is worth meat price.A good horse is always a good horse. So they have a horse that they can't/won't take care of and hasn't been ridden or shod or wormed for years and they take it out and set it 'free' to run with the wildies in the Canadian Rockies instead of going for meat. It eases their conscience.

Actually it goes deeper than that. It appears there are some that feel the herds need a litle genetic diversity and are reportedly injecting some new stallions into the herds. These aren't cast offs. They are prime breeding stock.

[sheepguide]

If they are turning the horse out t is because it is worth meat price.A good horse is always a good horse. So they have a horse that they can't/won't take care of and hasn't been ridden or shod or wormed for years and they take it out and set it 'free' to run with the wildies in the Canadian Rockies instead of going for meat. It eases their conscience.

Just curious how many of these good old horses you have seen running out there? Many horse owners that care that much about a horse to not sell it for meat also care enough to run a brand. You see next to no horses out there with a brand. And I look at every herd I see.

And like I said it does happen the odd time but its not a major factor and contributes very little to the actual population.

Pretty easy to tell horses that are dumped, just carry an oat pail with you and when you see a heard of horses get out and give it a few shakes. A domestic horse that has been in captivity pretty much always knows what that is. I carry one with me lots now when just going out for a drive. And so far have only ever seen two horses that were in with feral horses. One we were looking for and the other we found while out hunting. The one horse had been loose for over a year(escaped from a friend while hunting) that we were looking for but when we seen her in a herd and we shook that pail she payed attention and wanted to come but she had been out long enough that she didnt just come running. She would come just out of the heard and then head back, but would do this every time you shook the pail. It took two days of this to get close to her and get a rope on her.
We looked over a tone of horses while looking for that girl and she was the only horse that paid any attention to that bucket.

The second I came across while hunting. You could tell that the one of the two was domestic just by her look. I took my pack and shook it just like an oat pail and only that one paid any attention to it. You could easily tell it was domestic. So I went and got the stock trailer, a rope, a halter and a pail of oats. When all was done 4 or 5 hours later we took one domestic mare and even the yearling wild/feral stud back home with us. Caught on foot with just a lariet and oat pail.

SG

[sheepguide]

Actually it goes deeper than that. It appears there are some that feel the herds need a litle genetic diversity and are reportedly injecting some new stallions into the herds. These aren't cast offs. They are prime breeding stock.

Just curios if this is personal opinions or factual?
SG

[sheepguide]

Actually it goes deeper than that. It appears there are some that feel the herds need a litle genetic diversity and are reportedly injecting some new stallions into the herds. These aren't cast offs. They are prime breeding stock.

Just wondeing Sheep if you turn say 10(which im sure is high) quality studs loose across the foothills doesnt that just increase the herd by ummm say 10? Doesnt drasticly cause herd numbers to change. Still shouldnt be happening and should carry a large penalty but it sure isnt as bad as 10 mares being released!
Still not seeing many people doing this as really how does it help the people out. Not alot of people are gunna be into releasing a quality stud for no return in any way.

And on a bright note,
Now them horses are more lucrative because the are better bred so now more people should be interested in getting permits to help reduce the herd numbers as with better quality out there the price will improve at sale time.:sHa_shakeshout:

SG

[209x50]

Actually it goes deeper than that. It appears there are some that feel the herds need a litle genetic diversity and are reportedly injecting some new stallions into the herds. These aren't cast offs. They are prime breeding stock.
You combine that with the asinine quota system for the catch licenses and something stinks to high heaven!
The catch license holder I heard from ships his catch straight to FT McLeod. A rancher from a long line of ranchers; when this man says they are only fit for a can of Alpo it is the voice of experience speaking. No romantic emotion just straight forward facts.

[sheepguide]

A rancher from a long line of ranchers; when this man says they are only fit for a can of Alpo it is the voice of experience speaking. No romantic emotion just straight forward facts.

Biggest problem with some "Experts" facts is that there are holes in their facts!
While it is true that many of the older horses running free are past the ages of having any training done and only a handful of these older mares would work for breeding, there are a good number of younger(4 years old and under and the odd one older) horses that are very useful and can be top quality saddle horses. And if the rancher from a long line of ranchers doesnt know this he isnt much of a "horse man". Some of the best mountain saddle horses,saddle horses period and pack horses have been caught and broke from these foothill herds.
Anyone that would make the statment that the only thing that all these horses are good for is slaughter shines their true knowledge.

And like I stated when some public voice as above states that they are only good for a can of dog food(alpo) it only fuels the people trying to shut down the trapping of these horses altogether and make them protected. What better argument to stop horse trapping other than the only reason they do it is to kill them. Like I said these guys that are blinded by their own hate for the horses are the best defence guys like Bob Henderson have in their fight to have the horses of the west country protected.
SG

[MountainTi]

Yes, horses are being released to augment herds and improve genetics.

Care to back that up with a little proof? Or is it just hearsay?

[MountainTi]

Biggest problem with some "Experts" facts is that there are holes in their facts!
While it is true that many of the older horses running free are past the ages of having any training done and only a handful of these older mares would work for breeding, there are a good number of younger(4 years old and under and the odd one older) horses that are very useful and can be top quality saddle horses. And if the rancher from a long line of ranchers doesnt know this he isnt much of a "horse man". Some of the best mountain saddle horses,saddle horses period and pack horses have been caught and broke from these foothill herds.
Anyone that would make the statment that the only thing that all these horses are good for is slaughter shines their true knowledge.

And like I stated when some public voice as above states that they are only good for a can of dog food(alpo) it only fuels the people trying to shut down the trapping of these horses altogether and make them protected. What better argument to stop horse trapping other than the only reason they do it is to kill them. Like I said these guys that are blinded by their own hate for the horses are the best defence guys like Bob Henderson have in their fight to have the horses of the west country protected.SG

You're absolutely correct, when guys come on here and offer up solutions such as," open season on horses out west, give out tags, shoot them for bear/wolf bait, they all need to be destroyed ", they aren't doing much to help their cause out at all, basically their own worst enemy. If old Bob was smart, he would just have to do a quick search on this forum about this topic, copy a few of these asinine posts, and he would have all kinds of new ammunition for his fight.
BTW- I happened to catch that clip on 16:9 last week....... I don't think those horses will be going anywhere for a long time

[sheephunter]

Care to back that up with a little proof? Or is it just hearsay?

Was doing some research for an article I was working on. Came across lots of intersting facts...sorry I don't have photos ;) You can read all about it in AO in May though. :)

[sheepguide]

Was doing some research for an article I was working on. Came across lots of intersting facts...sorry I don't have photos ;) You can read all about it in AO in May though. :)

Hope you list your sources and links to the documents you get your info from and it isnt just another personal opinion article.
SG

[Redfrog]

SH, you are right there are a lot of holes in what some guys put forward as facts.

I never said old horses. I know of a heck of lot more unbranded horses than branded.I don't see what that has to do with someone not having the grit to do the right thing for their horse.

Here's some facts for you.
That the horse market is depressed.
It is not very hard to find a very good horse for not much money.
Some people can no longer afford to keep their horses. These are usually people who have rented an acre and 1/2 and thought they had a ranch. With little knowledge or forethought they buy a couple of cheap horses only to find two days later there's no grass for them.
When reality sets in they haul 'black beauty' to the mountains to be free with the wild mustangs because they know the meat buyer will take them if they go to the sale. Their conscience won't allow that. Nothing to do with branding and everything to do with being irresponsible.

"We looked over a tone of horses" I'm not sure how many horses that is. Is that the few hundred you keep talking about or is it a lot more?


As far as these horses making such great saddle horses, pack horses etc. I gotta wonder why they were dumped in the first place if that was the case.

For the expense and effort to catch and train a wildie it doesn't make sense.
You did say they like to bite and kick for a while. A horse that bites doesn't last very long around my place. My dogs eat him.

You can buy a horse that is broke to death and bomb proof for not much money. Why mess with one that could make your wife a widow.

The fact is that all those horses started from horses that were dumped or escaped, whether it was this year or 50 years ago. They are feral horses.

[209x50]

The fact is that all those horses started from horses that were dumped or escaped, whether it was this year or 50 years ago. They are feral horses.
Yep, and the fact is the genetics are so poor that the scrubs are worthless for anything other than shipping to Ft Macleod. Horse crazies are now releasing good quality genetics into the wild to build up the gene pool.

[sheephunter]

You are right Redfrog......between the shallow gene pool, the physical attributes of these feral horses and their temperment, most are nothing more than candidates for slaughter. There is this romantic notion that these "wild mustangs" somehow make these majestic riding horses that are filled with spirit and stamina but for the most part they are dumpy little horses with no real value. I like to call it the "black beauty" syndrom. The "mustangs" in Suffield were the same thing and you just look where the majority of west country "wildies" are going after capture. I'm sure if the government ever organizes a large scale capture of these west country ferals, there will be people lining up to adopt them just as they did in Suffield but in the end, I fear the fate of the adopted horses would not be a script from a Disney movie but if it gets them out of the west country, I'm all for people believing what they want. Unfortunately, you talk to the guys that are actually out there catching them and they'll tell you the true value. They are what they are.

[sheepguide]

Yep, and the fact is the genetics are so poor that the scrubs are worthless for anything other than shipping to Ft Macleod. Horse crazies are now releasing good quality genetics into the wild to build up the gene pool.

Keep up the good work 209! I love when you post, it guarentee's that the wild horses will be there for along time.:) Dont even need to argue with you, you are helping the wild horses as much as Bob. People search stuff on the net about the wild horses and your comments pop up and presto they are 100% for protection from guys like you commenting they they are only good dead.
I must thank you.
SG

[sheepguide]

For the expense and effort to catch and train a wildie it doesn't make sense.
You did say they like to bite and kick for a while. A horse that bites doesn't last very long around my place. My dogs eat him.

You can buy a horse that is broke to death and bomb proof for not much money. Why mess with one that could make your wife a widow.

.

Do you think the expense to remove them like you all suggest is gunna be less? With permits it the individual forking out the money. With what you want its the tax payers forking out the money.

And yes some bite and some kick, if you break horses you run into this with even some full domestic horses. And yes if you want a great saddle horse with no work go buy one. But that horse started out just as a horse brought in from the west country would. To Joe blow they wont break a caught horse, but they wouldnt break one raised in captivity either.

Ive had friends and relatives killed, badly hurt and know of two local kids killed by horses. They were domestic broke horses. It can happen with anyhorse no matter how well broke or what genetics it has in it.
Maybe you guys should talk to some of the old outfitters that used many horse straight from the wild. Maybe you should also talk to some AO members that are right now riding horses that were caught in the wild and tell them they are worthless and only good dead.
Maybe you should talk to Hallocks around the Rocky area and tell them that a wild/feral horse is usless while you watch them drive them on there wagons and ride them all the time.

The guys that say they are not good for anything but dog food obviously know nothing about horses or just say it because they dont want their buddies to look down on them.

Anyways keep up the great work you guys im sure Bob would be proud!
SG

[MountainTi]

Opinions........everybody has one, and these threads are full of them. Opinions are great we need them, but one thing I have yet to see is much in the way of proof on this topic.
I enjoy seeing wildies out west, I've been watching them since I was a kid. How long have they been out there? Nobody can say for sure, but it has been a long time, longer than ALL posters on here have been around. Do they affect other animal populations in the west country? Can't say for sure, all I know is 25-30 years ago, there were a LOT of horses out west, and there were also a LOT of elk out west. Do I think the horses are the cause of the decline? I don't think so, but that is my opinion. Actually haven't seen any FACTS to prove otherwise. I notice that most against having these wildies out west of Sundre aren't from around this area at all. Most are from cities quite a ways away, so not really sure that making the pilgramage out here twice a year can justify some of the arguements for getting rid of them all. I'm from the area, I see more what goes on, I know a lot of people in the horse business. I have never heard once about anybody dropping horses out west to get rid of them, maybe they are hauling them out from Provost and I don't know about that, hard to say, it's a possibility I suppose :thinking-006:. I know the odd horse does get loose, in fact I know of a heck of a calf roping horse that escaped out there a couple years ago and to my knowledge was never found. And as for introducing new stock out there to improve genetics, I call BS, and I will call B.S. till I see some proof. Why would they. You think the wildies all need to be removed? That is your opinion, but facts would help your cause a whole lot more rather than statements such as "alpo, issueing tags, kill em all".
So again PROOF, let's see some of it regarding the damage and detrament these horses are causing to wildlife and environment.

[sheephunter]

LOL...ah the geographical advantage card....usually the last arguement of the desperate......


Anyhow, horses eat....that is a fact. Elk, deer and sheep also eat. That too is a fact. Horses eat a lot...25-30 pounds a day...that too is a fact. We have a minimum of 650 feral horses in Alberta...that too is a fact. Those horses eat nearly 3,000 tons of prime forage each year......that too is a fact. Horses compete directly with our native ungulates for food and horses focus on areas of prime forage (that's why all the pics of them standing in knee deep grass)....that too is a fact. Horses are eating prime forage and making it unavailable to our native ungulates....that too is a fact. Horses are very efficient grazers, leaving little behind for ungulates...that too is a fact. Horse populations are increasing....that too is a fact. Modern horses are not native to North America...that too is a fact. Shall I go on?

Seems to me there are a lot of facts you are conveniently ignoring or perhaps your geographical advantage prevents you from seeing the truth. Okay, I've presented a number of facts on how feral horses are competing with our native ungulates. Give me one fact as to why they belong....well other than they are pretty and remind you of black beauty....I'll conceed they are pretty. BTW, I'm guessing we are about the same distance from herds of "wildies" so not sure you can even play the geographical advantage card.;)

[walking buffalo]

Opinions........everybody has one,
So again PROOF, let's see some of it regarding the damage and detrament these horses are causing to wildlife and environment.

Just have a bit of patience and you'll get some proof. There are active studies being done by U of A on these horses and their ecological impact. These studies are being done for the first time in Alberta.

Regarding the dumping of horses. It is happening.

The gov. is under orders to keep very quiet with official comments on feral horses. Give SRD Lands a call, maybe you will hear what I was told. There have been many confirmed cases of horses being dumped in the East Slopes over the last five years.

Don't forget that some people are using these feral horses for a particular agenda. They hope to create more No Hunting Parks by having feral horses classified as wildlife, and then declared an Endangered Species. It is in their interest to have a viable healthy feral horse herd. I wouldn't put it past some people to seed the stock for this purpose.

[sheepguide]

Don't forget that some people are using these feral horses for a particular agenda. They hope to create more No Hunting Parks by having feral horses classified as wildlife, and then declared an Endangered Species. It is in their interest to have a viable healthy feral horse herd. I wouldn't put it past some people to seed the stock for this purpose.

Yep you are right on this. And with these people on this forum stating kill them all, shot them for bear bait, they are usless, only good for dog food and how ever many more comments you would like me to list, these people pushing for what you mentioned above are gunna get a ton of sympathy from those that look at a horse as a pet or as a majstic animal.

The guys are actually hurting things more. Would make more sense to tell these people that it is healthier for the horse herds to be thinned back, and that they will have a better existance at lower numbers.

The guys on here dont realize that it is alot easier to get control than to wipe them out(which isnt gunna happen even after the studies are done). But they are gunna stick to there guns bad mouthing groups and saying how the termination of the horses should go and pretty soon every person in the world that has a soft spot for a horse will be on the fight to save the "Wild" horses of Alberta.



And yes TJ horses eat is a FACT, and they compete is a FACT. And maybe they arent native from 1000years ago that is possibly FACT. And yes horse numbers are increasing that is FACT.
But are the horse numbers and amount they eat causing population numbers in wildlife to change? Show me where that is FACT
Do numbers need to be eliminated or just decreased and controled? Show me the FACT that you have here!

Every one agrees on many of the topics but the main descusion is should they or do they need to be eliminated or controlled, and of that there are no FACTS only opinions!

SG

[209x50]

Just have a bit of patience and you'll get some proof. There are active studies being done by U of A on these horses and their ecological impact. These studies are being done for the first time in Alberta.

Regarding the dumping of horses. It is happening.

The gov. is under orders to keep very quiet with official comments on feral horses. Give SRD Lands a call, maybe you will hear what I was told. There have been many confirmed cases of horses being dumped in the East Slopes over the last five years.

Don't forget that some people are using these feral horses for a particular agenda. They hope to create more No Hunting Parks by having feral horses classified as wildlife, and then declared an Endangered Species. It is in their interest to have a viable healthy feral horse herd. I wouldn't put it past some people to seed the stock for this purpose.
The truth is there is only so much room out there and the trash shouldn't be competing with the elk and deer.

[MountainTi]

LOL...ah the geographical advantage card....usually the last arguement of the desperate......


Anyhow, horses eat....that is a fact. Elk, deer and sheep also eat. That too is a fact. Horses eat a lot...25-30 pounds a day...that too is a fact. We have a minimum of 650 feral horses in Alberta...that too is a fact. Those horses eat nearly 3,000 tons of prime forage each year......that too is a fact. Horses compete directly with our native ungulates for food and horses focus on areas of prime forage (that's why all the pics of them standing in knee deep grass)....that too is a fact. Horses are eating prime forage and making it unavailable to our native ungulates....that too is a fact. Horses are very efficient grazers, leaving little behind for ungulates...that too is a fact. Horse populations are increasing....that too is a fact. Modern horses are not native to North America...that too is a fact. Shall I go on?

Seems to me there are a lot of facts you are conveniently ignoring or perhaps your geographical advantage prevents you from seeing the truth. Okay, I've presented a number of facts on how feral horses are competing with our native ungulates. Give me one fact as to why they belong....well other than they are pretty and remind you of black beauty....I'll conceed they are pretty. BTW, I'm guessing we are about the same distance from herds of "wildies" so not sure you can even play the geographical advantage card.;)

Horses eat as well as all other mammals? Not much of a fact, and not once have I argued otherwise. As for quantities of forage, not gonna argue on numbers, but I better start feeding my fat ponies more. All kidding aside, yeah, these horses are eating that other wildlife may eat? You bet. The biggest question would be are they competing? In other words, are other animals starving to death because of it, is this a fact?. Is there no forage material left come spring time? Lets see some proof. Until then, your arguement that horses eat grass doesn't hold much water. The feral brown trout that swim in the waters that flow throught your city (or town or whatever cochrane is nowadayss), do they compete with any native fish for food? I expect so, but if there is no shortage, whats the problem. How about all those nasty feral pheasants, are they not competing against native bird population? Are there not native bird populations in the south that are on the endangered species llist? We should probably get rid of all those nasty ringnecks then, they are competition.
I'm not going to give you a fact why they should stay, but I will give you my opinion. Peolple get enjoyment out of them, from photographers to tourists. Plain and simple. Why do we keep those brown trout in the bow? Pretty sure a lot of people get enjoyment out of catching and releasing them. Kinda doubt if anybody would eat them. But if they aren't hurting other species, why not. Once there is actual evidence that they are causing a decline in other game populations, then they should probably be thinned out, but not eradicated. Until then...........gotta go fork my ponies some more hay.

[sheepguide]

The truth is there is only so much room out there and the trash shouldn't be competing with the elk and deer.

Truth is it is only an opinion that they are trash! Like has been stating show the "PROOF" and "FACTS" that horse numbers and what they eat are contributing to popluation numbers in wildlife. Is there anything showing that your so called "TRASH" is causing wildlife populations to decrease? Is it causing wild life to starve to the point they die?

Competition is there that is agreed by all but is that compatition causing direct issues with wildlife populations.

And yes I know you think there should be no competition as it hurts nature but it has yet to be prooven what affects it is actually having on nature.

SG

[sheephunter]

Sorry Ti, the two wrongs make a right arguement holds about as much water as the geographical advantage. I can give countless facts as to how horses compete against native ungulates but unfortunately the pro horse crowd has nothing to fall back on but they are pretty and there are other non-native species in Alberta. Neither of which addresses the real issue of horses competing with our native ungulates in the west country.

Should I expect you to be speaking up for the majestic wild pig soon? Or how about the beautiful packs of wild dogs? Then there are those magnificent wild cats that are so beautiful. They need a voice too.

Ti, I agree that many city people are ill-informed but then so too are many hobby farmers and acerage owners. I find geography really has little to do with it.

Ti, I don't think you need a degree in biology to understand that less grass available for our ungulates means less ungulates. Throw 20 horses on a qurter section with your cows and soon your carrying capacity for cows will go down. It's pretty simple logic. Winter range is the great limiting factor in this province and you add competition to winter range and something has to give. Yes, there could be more ungulates if horses were removed from the landscape......pretty much range management 101.

[Redfrog]

Do you think the expense to remove them like you all suggest is gunna be less? With permits it the individual forking out the money. With what you want its the tax payers forking out the money.

Apples and turnips. One is private horse ownership the other is wildlife management. I'd say nice try, but I know you can do better.

And yes some bite and some kick, if you break horses you run into this with even some full domestic horses. And yes if you want a great saddle horse with no work go buy one. But that horse started out just as a horse brought in from the west country would. To Joe blow they wont break a caught horse, but they wouldnt break one raised in captivity either.

I have actually broke a few horses and I learned early on it costs the same to feed a good one as it does a ****ter. If I were breaking a horse and it bit or tried to bite it would only do it twice. Once for the correction and the second time it would be on truck to be dumped on the eastern slopes so it could be with like minded horses.:) My saddle horses sure do not start out the same as the wildies. They may actually have some breeding to bring out the positive traits I like in a horse. Joe Blow has enough sense to realize he can buy a trained horse for what it costs to get a colt on the ground.

Ive had friends and relatives killed, badly hurt and know of two local kids killed by horses. They were domestic broke horses. It can happen with anyhorse no matter how well broke or what genetics it has in it.

I know people who died in a car wreck, so what. It could happen in a domestic truck or an import. :snapoutofit: Doesn't mean I try to increase my chances of it happening.

Maybe you guys should talk to some of the old outfitters that used many horse straight from the wild. Maybe you should also talk to some AO members that are right now riding horses that were caught in the wild and tell them they are worthless and only good dead.
Maybe you should talk to Hallocks around the Rocky area and tell them that a wild/feral horse is usless while you watch them drive them on there wagons and ride them all the time.

I guess the handful of horses you are talking about far outweighs the thousands that are bred and broke every year in Alberta from horses with some good characteristics. BTW how many of those Brumbies don't make the grade?

The guys that say they are not good for anything but dog food obviously know nothing about horses or just say it because they dont want their buddies to look down on them.

I can't add to that. I knew nothing, but I feel so much smarter just talking with you.:)

Anyways keep up the great work you guys im sure Bob would be proud!
SG




Mountain Ti , I don't take shots because you are from a place with a wussy girl's name:thinking-006: Maybe you could take a page from my book of internet etiquette.:) Don't apologize, just say something nice about Provost.:) Maybe I'll tell you a Story about Sweet Caroline.:love0025:

[sheepguide]

Sorry Ti, the two wrongs make a right arguement holds about as much water as the geographical advantage. I can give countless facts as to how horses compete against native ungulates but unfortunately the pro horse crowd has nothing to fall back on but they are pretty and there are other non-native species in Alberta. Neither of which addresses the real issue of horses competing with our native ungulates in the west country.

Should I expect you to be speaking up for the majestic wild pig soon? Or how about the beautiful packs of wild dogs? Then there are those magnificent wild cats that are so beautiful. They need a voice too.

Are wild dogs prooven to kill wild animals? Yep fact.
Are wild pigs prooven to decimate the land and poplulate at enourmous rates? Yep fact.
Have wild cats prooven to kill wildlife and livestock at alarming rates ? Yep fact.

Have horses been prooven to cause willife deaths? Have horses been prooven to decimate the land? Have horses been know to harm wild life? Hmm not fact!

The competition has been there for well over 100years( probably more so earlier than now), population numbers have taken many swings over that time period, from elk herds being completely gone to be reintroduced and flurishing to very large herds then falling to drastic levels again. Competition was there through all of that. So really your competition argument holds very little water either.

You go to the same answer everytime some one asks you to proove that the competition is hurting populations. You have no answer for that so you pretty much quote the same phrase every time.

SG

[MountainTi]

The truth is there is only so much room out there and the trash shouldn't be competing with the elk and deer.

:lol: Again, I'm sure Bob would thank you for helping his cause

[sheepguide]

Mountain Ti , I don't take shots because you are from a place with a wussy girl's name:thinking-006: Maybe you could take a page from my book of internet etiquette.:) Don't apologize, just say something nice about Provost.:) Maybe I'll tell you a Story about Sweet Caroline.:love0025:

LOL yep lots can be said about Caroline, not much denying that and not much that can be said that hasnt already been heard!
But ill guarentee that someone growing up there and living there for generations knows alot more about the west country than someone coming from eastern canada, living in the city and making a couple short trip to the mountains each year.

SG

[MountainTi]

Mountain Ti , I don't take shots because you are from a place with a wussy girl's name:thinking-006: Maybe you could take a page from my book of internet etiquette.:) Don't apologize, just say something nice about Provost.:) Maybe I'll tell you a Story about Sweet Caroline.:love0025:

Nicest thing about Provost is when it's in your rearview mirror JK. Actually I used to do a lot of work in Provost years ago and always enjoyed the town, actually wouldn't mind working around there again, so nope, no shots here about your town

[Ray]

You go to the same answer everytime some one asks you to proove that the competition is hurting populations. You have no answer for that so you pretty much quote the same phrase every time.

SG

I also give the same answer everytime when I am asked what 2+2 equals.

[MountainTi]

Sorry Ti, the two wrongs make a right arguement holds about as much water as the geographical advantage. I can give countless facts as to how horses compete against native ungulates but unfortunately the pro horse crowd has nothing to fall back on but they are pretty and there are other non-native species in Alberta. Neither of which addresses the real issue of horses competing with our native ungulates in the west country.
Have you not noticed I have been agreeing with you for quite some time that horses compete with other herbivores for forage? Are they running short on forage is what I am looking for (my forehead is getting sore, wished I didn't have a hardwood desktop:))Should I expect you to be speaking up for the majestic wild pig soon? Or how about the beautiful packs of wild dogs? Then there are those magnificent wild cats that are so beautiful. They need a voice too.


Ti, I agree that many city people are ill-informed but then so too are many hobby farmers and acerage owners. I find geography really has little to do with it. Of which I am none of the above so not sure where you are going with that.Ti, I don't think you need a degree in biology to understand that less grass available for our ungulates means less ungulates. Throw 20 horses on a qurter section with your cows and soon your carrying capacity for cows will go down. It's pretty simple logic. Winter range is the great limiting factor in this province and you add competition to winter range and something has to give. Yes, there could be more ungulates if horses were removed from the landscape......pretty much range management 101
Of course carrying capacity goes down, doesn't take a biologist to figure that one out, heck I'm sure even any from your list above could figure that out. What I'm asking for is some evidence that the carrying capacity has has been maxed out, fully utilized .

:)

[209x50]

In reflection it is such a waste of money to study trash. They might as well count beer tins and Timmie's cups. Same diference someone left that garbage behind as well. It is depressing to think the good that money could be used for to help our beleaguered wild life.

[sheepguide]

I also give the same answer everytime when I am asked what 2+2 equals.

Ya but you answer I hope covers the question! Who knows maybe you say its 5. Same answer every time doesnt mean its right.

His does not provide any factual information other than there is a horse in the bush eating some grass. Then it ends and he says two wrongs dont make a right because his factual information no longer exists.

SG

[sheepguide]

In reflection it is such a waste of money to study trash. They might as well count beer tins and Timmie's cups. Same diference someone left that garbage behind as well. It is depressing to think the good that money could be used for to help our beleaguered wild life.

You forgot that we could maybe study the number of argo tracks through water ways and large ruts they have left in marsh lands each year?

But heck them noisy machines belching out exaust and tearing around the country have very little affect in comparision to what them darn trash horses do!

LOL keep feed Bob 209, I love it.
SG

[yukon12]

You forgot that we could maybe study the number of argo tracks through water ways and large ruts they have left in marsh lands each year?

But heck them noisy machines belching out exaust and tearing around the country have very little affect in comparision to what them darn trash horses do!

LOL keep feed Bob 209, I love it.
SG

Your full of it sheep guide. Simple fact is you have made up your mind and are in love with the disney idea of these horses and are not intrested in any argument against them. Take them home to your place and get them out of the west country they do not belong.

[sheephunter]

Of course carrying capacity goes down, doesn't take a biologist to figure that one out, heck I'm sure even any from your list above could figure that out. What I'm asking for is some evidence that the carrying capacity has has been maxed out, fully utilized .

I think the fact that there is a hunting season for does, cows and ewes is pretty strong proof. We only hunt females to reduce populations. In the case where there's an overlap with private land, there may be other mitigating factors but in zones comprised primarily of crown land, then population control is the only factor. This is where things get confusing. At first glance one may come to the conclusion that we have lots of ungulates because we are trying to reduce populations but the truth of the matter is that we are reducing populations to match carrying capacity of the winter range. Currently, the amount of available winter range is diminished because of competition by horses so the carrying capacity for our native ungulates is also reducd. So yes, if horses were removed from the landscape and the amount of available winter forage increased, then yes indeed we could and would have more native ungulates. As I said, range management 101.

[sheepguide]

I think the fact that there is a hunting season for does, cows and ewes is pretty strong proof. We only hunt females to reduce populations. In the case where there's an overlap with private land, there may be other mitigating factors but in zones comprised primarily of crown land, then population control is the only factor. This is where things get confusing. At first glance one may come to the conclusion that we have lots of ungulates because we are trying to reduce populations but the truth of the matter is that we are reducing populations to match carrying capacity of the winter range. Currently, the amount of available winter range is diminished because of competition by horses so the carrying capacity for our native ungulates is also reducd. So yes, if horses were removed from the landscape and the amount of available winter forage increased, then yes indeed we could and would have more native ungulates. As I said, range management 101.

So what is happening to populations that are in the areas that have no horses then TJ? You keep saying how the horses are such a large factor but you have yet to aknowledge the fact that the same issues our zones with wild horses are encountering are also been seen in the zones with zero horse or very minimal horse populations.
And I strongly disagree that the horses on winter range is affecting all areas. Yes possibly the odd one and that needs to be addressed and no one disagrees with that.
And in fact some areas that have the highest horse populations such as the Bearberry,Limestone, James/Wilson, Yara Creek, Burnt Timber have also seen huge increases in wintering range with large burns and massive logging so in fact the feed is in most areas alot more than what it used to be.
SG

[sheepguide]

Your full of it sheep guide. Simple fact is you have made up your mind and are in love with the disney idea of these horses and are not intrested in any argument against them. Take them home to your place and get them out of the west country they do not belong.

Show me where the proof is of the need to eliminate the horses then. I agree 100% that they need to be reduced, never onced argued that they dont. You have your opinion of them and I have mine.
If there is proof that the only answer is that they need to be completely removed in order for other wild life to prosper there then ill gladly help eliminate them. But my family has lived in that area long enough to know that a small horse population doesnt hurt anything and all animals can flurish. I have no worries on what will happen with the horses as there are enough guys opening their mouth with stupid comments that it will do nothing but ensure that a number of them horses will always be there.

And till you can proove that im full of it then I guess we will never know. Your points sure havent shown a thing!

Quick question Yukon12, where did you grow up and where do you live now?
SG

[sheepguide]

Anyone know how many square miles are in our mountain and foothills WMU zones?
SG

[fish_e_o]

Show me where the proof is of the need to eliminate the horses then. I agree 100% that they need to be reduced, never onced argued that they dont. You have your opinion of them and I have mine.

eliminated!?! heck no but they should be reduced and kept in check but not eliminated

what i want to see come out of this is an HONEST effort to keep the population in check.
-i don't want tree hugging yuppies saying that the population is suffering when it has never been better i would like to see real reports of the horses used in decision making
-i don't want to see people using the "wild horses" as an argument against hunting or a way to stop it in a certain area.
-i don't want to see domestic animals released into the wild, it's like putting perch in a trout pond, it's stupid and irresponsible.
-i don't want to see the horses eradicated
-i don't want to see people going to jail for shooting a released horse if there is proof it was released
-i would like to see a hunting season for them for those who do want to hunt them
-i don't want to see people's emotions get in the way of making decisions

i don't think that is too much to ask

[Okotokian]

eliminated!?! heck no but they should be reduced and kept in check but not eliminated

what i want to see come out of this is an HONEST effort to keep the population in check.
-i don't want tree hugging yuppies saying that the population is suffering when it has never been better i would like to see real reports of the horses used in decision making
-i don't want to see people using the "wild horses" as an argument against hunting or a way to stop it in a certain area.
-i don't want to see domestic animals released into the wild, it's like putting perch in a trout pond, it's stupid and irresponsible.
-i don't want to see the horses eradicated
-i don't want to see people going to jail for shooting a released horse if there is proof it was released
-i would like to see a hunting season for them for those who do want to hunt them
-i don't want to see people's emotions get in the way of making decisions


A lot of confusing stuff in there. First of all, aren't all feral horses or their ancestors released horses? I'm not aware that there are any native horses here, are there?.

So you want no penalties for someone shooting a released horse. So would you have a penalty for someone shooting a horse that hadn't been released? How would a hunter know the difference?

If you want a hunting season, then released or not you have to punish those people hunting out of season.

It sounds like you want them designated a game species. I think that's a bad idea. You don't want emotions to get in the way, but there is no way to control it in others. A proposal from the AFGA for a regular yearly horse hunting season would be about the quickest way to convince the public that we are blood-thirsty nuts. You think getting rid of the registry is a hard sell? Try advocating horse hunting as a sport.

[sheepguide]

eliminated!?! heck no but they should be reduced and kept in check but not eliminated

what i want to see come out of this is an HONEST effort to keep the population in check.
-i don't want tree hugging yuppies saying that the population is suffering when it has never been better i would like to see real reports of the horses used in decision making
-i don't want to see people using the "wild horses" as an argument against hunting or a way to stop it in a certain area.
-i don't want to see domestic animals released into the wild, it's like putting perch in a trout pond, it's stupid and irresponsible.
-i don't want to see the horses eradicated
-i don't want to see people going to jail for shooting a released horse if there is proof it was released
-i would like to see a hunting season for them for those who do want to hunt them
-i don't want to see people's emotions get in the way of making decisions

i don't think that is too much to ask

I agree with you 100%, other than the hunting fact as I know that will never happen.

Ive only argued against the total elimination, never that they didnt compete or that population havent increased and all the stuff the others have stated.
All I argued is that the irradication of the horse is nothing more than a personal wish. It has nothing to do with whats best, carrying capacity of the land or any of the other argument that have been put forth. Its has nothing to do with the horses hurting wildlife populations as none of that is know. Its not backed by anything.
Numbers need to be controled like you say and that is what ive pushed for for along time. The problem is that its stuff like the anti horse guys here are saying that will end up getting the bleeding heart people thinking that all we want to do is kill and pretty soon they will be protected and then more and more will be out there causing issues.
Guys can say im in love with the disney side of what ever but that again is there opinion, ive been out there and removed released horses and caught a bunch of wild horses and have done more than most here ever will to try and help control the populations. So ya I guess my ideas are out to lunch.
Ill just sit back and watch a bunch of guys sit on their computers and complain and make extreme comments on what should be done to the population and watch as they the guys that hate the horses the most actually have the main hand in getting them protected.

SG

[sheephunter]

It sounds like you want them designated a game species. I think that's a bad idea. You don't want emotions to get in the way, but there is no way to control it in others. A proposal from the AFGA for a regular yearly horse hunting season would be about the quickest way to convince the public that we are blood-thirsty nuts. You think getting rid of the registry is a hard sell? Try advocating horse hunting as a sport.


One of the other dangers of a hunt Oko, is that feral horses would have to be declared wildlife for a hunt to occur. If this happened, it wouldn't take long for the do gooders to have them declared threatened and we'd have another grizzly bear in the province. There are some other courses of action that could be taken to allow them to be legally shot.

On the matter of managing these horses and controlling numbers, this does not come without great financial cost to the government and ultimately the tax payer. Management plans and subsequent harvest plans require on going population surveys, management plans, enforcement and record keeping. Our SRD department is already short staffed and under funded. Are we really that eager to take more money out of their meager pot to manage a non-native species? At some point we have to put a value on these horses and see what they are worth to society. Is that warm fuzzy feeling that comes from seeing a stray animal in the wild really worth the financial burden to SRD and is it worth the stress to our native wildlife? While managing them is the feel good solution to many, it will come at a very heavy cost. Why do you think the government has kept their head in the sand so long on this issue?

Personally I'd rather see that money spent to get more officers in the field and for better management of our native species........

[Okotokian]

Agreed. I sort of like seeing them out there but agree that managing them costs money and does impact native species. I'm against designating them as game species and would be more supportive of total elimination, first by trapping, and then by shooting if necessary. And also the stiffening of penalties for releasing a horse into the wild, same as releasing non-native fish into lakes.

[sheepguide]

One of the other dangers of a hunt Oko, is that feral horses would have to be declared wildlife for a hunt to occur. If this happened, it wouldn't take long for the do gooders to have them declared threatened and we'd have another grizzly bear in the province. There are some other courses of action that could be taken to allow them to be legally shot.

On the matter of managing these horses and controlling numbers, this does not come without great financial cost to the government and ultimately the tax payer. Management plans and subsequent harvest plans require on going population surveys, management plans, enforcement and record keeping. Our SRD department is already short staffed and under funded. Are we really that eager to take more money out of their meager pot to manage a non-native species? At some point we have to put a value on these horses and see what they are worth to society. Is that warm fuzzy feeling that comes from seeing a stray animal in the wild really worth the financial burden to SRD and is it worth the stress to our native wildlife? While managing them is the feel good solution to many, it will come at a very heavy cost. Why do you think the government has kept their head in the sand so long on this issue?

What kinda of cost do you think getting the go ahead to completely remove them will be like, that will be alot larger fight to pay for than one to asses populations and increase capture permits to increase the ability to lower numbers and control populations.

And do you think it will be a cheap undertaking to remove every horse from the west country? They will spend alot more dollars trying that which will be next to impossible. Id love to watch this gong show transpire in the mountains, id have to take time off just to watch this performence and see how many of the computer cowboys we have here will have anything to do with it!
SG

[Redfrog]

How as the trapping/catch permit program worked so far at controlling the feral horse problem?

Why would any 'Computer Cowboy" want to leave his cookies and milk and the safety of his basement to remove feral horses. They bite ya know.There are professionals to do that.:)

I hope you aren't referring to me with your blanket statement about "anti horse" and "horse haters." :thinking-006: My wife would laugh so hard they would be packing her out of here in a straight jacket.:scared0018:

[fish_e_o]

I agree with you 100%, other than the hunting fact as I know that will never happen.
people will hunt them for meat, heck i'll try it once. the only thing that might make me not want to do it would be that the hunt would be too short and easy.

Agreed. I sort of like seeing them out there but agree that managing them costs money and does impact native species. I'm against designating them as game species and would be more supportive of total elimination, first by trapping, and then by shooting if necessary
i see your point of view but i hate that there would be a huge cost involved with the government culling them. let people who want to do it do it, sell tags for $25 and make a bit of money instead of wasting my taxes.

[sheepguide]

How as the trapping/catch permit program worked so far at controlling the feral horse problem?

Why would any 'Computer Cowboy" want to leave his cookies and milk and the safety of his basement to remove feral horses. They bite ya know.There are professionals to do that.:)

I hope you aren't referring to me with your blanket statement about "anti horse" and "horse haters." :thinking-006: My wife would laugh so hard they would be packing her out of here in a straight jacket.:scared0018:

The currenty permits allowed are slim to none so really the system has no chance to work. So your really not prooving anything there. If more people were allowed to obtain permits then there would be a better chance of success.

And ill rephrase that from antihorse to anti westcountry horses!

SG

[sheepguide]

people will hunt them for meat, heck i'll try it once. the only thing that might make me not want to do it would be that the hunt would be too short and easy.

Oh im not saying people wont, guys would hunt humans in Alberta if allowed but im saying that with out a doubt this will never get passed as an option in Alberta.
SG

[Redfrog]

Call them what they are feral horses not west country horses. Good grief it sounds like a tourist attraction.

Has there always been a shortage of trapping/catch permits? Was there a time when anyone could go catch a wildie?

[sheepguide]

Call them what they are feral horses not west country horses. Good grief it sounds like a tourist attraction.

Has there always been a shortage of trapping/catch permits? Was there a time when anyone could go catch a wildie?

Guys used to catch wildies all the time, whether it was 100%legal or not im not sure but it wasnt governed or enforced and guys did it without permits and the populations showed it. Then they started the permiting and saying you cant capture them without a permit, so people with the thoughts of getting punished quit and so with the now low number of people out there and with the way the permits were ran reducing the number of mares you could keep the populations have risen.
To control the population they need to target the mares, not target the studs and then after you catch so many studs you are given the bonus of keeping one mare.
SG

[fish_e_o]

Oh im not saying people wont, guys would hunt humans in Alberta if allowed but im saying that with out a doubt this will never get passed as an option in Alberta.
SG

they're the only larger mammal in alberta that i can think of that doesn't have a season... if there's a trend i think they'll follow in it.

[sheephunter]

How as the trapping/catch permit program worked so far at controlling the feral horse problem?

:

The government would first have to admit that we have a problem...lol

Profits are low, regulations very restrictive and sabotage high so it hasn't meant the capture of a lot of horses. If the government would open things up for even the current permit holders, there could be a lot of horses gone in a hurry.

[sheepguide]

Call them what they are feral horses not west country horses. Good grief it sounds like a tourist attraction.

And ill call them wild horses as to me that is what they are, free ranging non domesticated animals most are many multiple generations born in them hills, that to me is wild no matter what anyone says. You call them Feral or what ever you wish but you wont be telling me what to call them!
SG

[walking buffalo]

One of the other dangers of a hunt Oko, is that feral horses would have to be declared wildlife for a hunt to occur. If this happened, it wouldn't take long for the do gooders to have them declared threatened and we'd have another grizzly bear in the province. There are some other courses of action that could be taken to allow them to be legally shot.

On the matter of managing these horses and controlling numbers, this does not come without great financial cost to the government and ultimately the tax payer. Management plans and subsequent harvest plans require on going population surveys, management plans, enforcement and record keeping. Our SRD department is already short staffed and under funded. Are we really that eager to take more money out of their meager pot to manage a non-native species? At some point we have to put a value on these horses and see what they are worth to society. Is that warm fuzzy feeling that comes from seeing a stray animal in the wild really worth the financial burden to SRD and is it worth the stress to our native wildlife? While managing them is the feel good solution to many, it will come at a very heavy cost. Why do you think the government has kept their head in the sand so long on this issue?

Personally I'd rather see that money spent to get more officers in the field and for better management of our native species........

Declarating these feral horses as a Pest on provincial land would do the job.

[sheepguide]

Declarating these feral horses as a Pest on provincial land would do the job.

How well do you think getting that past the general public will go?

[walking buffalo]

How well do you think getting that past the general public will go?

I'm not worried about getting the concept past the general public.

A loud voice calling for the gov. to get serious with this issue, even to the point of declaring feral horses as a pest, will give the beaurocrats and politicians the carrot required to increase trapping permits.

[sheepguide]

I'm not worried about getting the concept past the general public.

A loud voice calling for the gov. to get serious with this issue, even to the point of declaring feral horses as a pest, will give the beaurocrats and politicians the carrot required to increase trapping permits.

True.

[fatboyz]

SG
There's no more stud to mare ratio of 3:1 for horse capture anymore, check out the srd site on feral horses, specifically the FAQ's

http://srd.alberta.ca/ManagingPrograms/Lands/FeralHorsesInAlberta.aspx

[MountainTi]

I'm not worried about getting the concept past the general public.

A loud voice calling for the gov. to get serious with this issue, even to the point of declaring feral horses as a pest, will give the beaurocrats and politicians the carrot required to increase trapping permits.

Jump back up there a couple posts, #88 to be precise. I think the concept that was mentioned is that if the wild horses can be declared a pest, they can then be legally shot, now one post later, you are saying that by declaring the wildies as pests, it will be easier to increase trapping permits. Which is it? Which would you prefer?

[MountainTi]

I think the fact that there is a hunting season for does, cows and ewes is pretty strong proof. We only hunt females to reduce populations. In the case where there's an overlap with private land, there may be other mitigating factors but in zones comprised primarily of crown land, then population control is the only factor. This is where things get confusing. At first glance one may come to the conclusion that we have lots of ungulates because we are trying to reduce populations but the truth of the matter is that we are reducing populations to match carrying capacity of the winter range. Currently, the amount of available winter range is diminished because of competition by horses so the carrying capacity for our native ungulates is also reducd. So yes, if horses were removed from the landscape and the amount of available winter forage increased, then yes indeed we could and would have more native ungulates. As I said, range management 101.

You have a link to an SRD site (or any other site) you can attach stating where extra tags are being given out due to the fact the ungulates are running out of winter range due to the wild horses? Just wondering, would be interesting to read up on that. Sounds like it would be some solid evidence to me.

[MountainTi]

One of the other dangers of a hunt Oko, is that feral horses would have to be declared wildlife for a hunt to occur. If this happened, it wouldn't take long for the do gooders to have them declared threatened and we'd have another grizzly bear in the province. There are some other courses of action that could be taken to allow them to be legally shot. ........

Is that your official stance on the subject? I never actually caught that on 16:9, must have been edited out. I'm sure this will be of interest to some though.

[sheepguide]

SG
There's no more stud to mare ratio of 3:1 for horse capture anymore, check out the srd site on feral horses, specifically the FAQ's

http://srd.alberta.ca/ManagingPrograms/Lands/FeralHorsesInAlberta.aspx


From the FAQ's section,


"#13 Is there a limit on the number of permits issued or the number of horses that can be removed?

ASRD has the ability to limit the number of licences issued. Since the program’s inception the number of licences issued has not been very high, therefore no quota has been established., The total number of horses that can be removed can be specified on the licence and a higher ratio of studs maybe specified. Annual counts appear to support the premise that the conservative number of horses removed annually is sustainable. "

May have changed but it looks to me like its specified on the license, and looks like they do on some specify a higher number of studs.
SG

[yukon12]

Show me where the proof is of the need to eliminate the horses then. I agree 100% that they need to be reduced, never onced argued that they dont. You have your opinion of them and I have mine.
If there is proof that the only answer is that they need to be completely removed in order for other wild life to prosper there then ill gladly help eliminate them. But my family has lived in that area long enough to know that a small horse population doesnt hurt anything and all animals can flurish. I have no worries on what will happen with the horses as there are enough guys opening their mouth with stupid comments that it will do nothing but ensure that a number of them horses will always be there.

And till you can proove that im full of it then I guess we will never know. Your points sure havent shown a thing!

Quick question Yukon12, where did you grow up and where do you live now?
SG

Bearberry born and raised

[sheepguide]

Bearberry born and raised

Well then you yourself have seen that wildlife at one time prospered with the horses there and can once again. Its not rocket science.
Like I said to your last comment show me where the only sollution is eliminating the horses and ill be the first one to go help till then I appreciate your opinion but that is all it is!

SG

[sheephunter]

Is that your official stance on the subject? I never actually caught that on 16:9, must have been edited out. I'm sure this will be of interest to some though.

Official stance...that sounds, well, so official....lmao.

Just passing along some facts Ti. Wild pigs far under the same act as feral horses but a further designation allows for the legal shooting of them. I was just pointing out that there were options, not that it was my prefered option...or official stance....LMAO Truthfully, I'd rather see them trapped and the trappers make some money. After that a government cull wouldn't bother me. I just want to see them gone....I'm not looking to have a hand in it.

There, that's my position paper on my official stance.....I doubt anyone will find it interesting though:snapoutofit:

So why again aren't you trying to save the pigs? What's your official stance on that....;)

[sheephunter]

SG
There's no more stud to mare ratio of 3:1 for horse capture anymore, check out the srd site on feral horses, specifically the FAQ's

http://srd.alberta.ca/ManagingPrograms/Lands/FeralHorsesInAlberta.aspx

It's actually higher than that now.....either 6:1 or 8:1, I'd need to check my notes.

[sheepguide]

It's actually higher than that now.....either 6:1 or 8:1, I'd need to check my notes.

Sounds to me like the designate the numbers by area. Or at least how I read it. Still a very stupid way to try and control populations.
SG

[walking buffalo]

Jump back up there a couple posts, #88 to be precise. I think the concept that was mentioned is that if the wild horses can be declared a pest, they can then be legally shot, now one post later, you are saying that by declaring the wildies as pests, it will be easier to increase trapping permits. Which is it? Which would you prefer?

I didn't say this. I said that public pressure calling for pest status could influence the gov. to become more willing to issue capture permits.

"Which would you prefer? " I would prefer for our govenment to grow some balls. This issue is similar to the Grizzly bear cencus and Bill 11. It is about appeasing a few rather than really looking after our Wildlife.

[MountainTi]

There are some other courses of action that could be taken to allow them to be legally shot.

........

Declarating these feral horses as a Pest on provincial land would do the job.

I didn't say this. I said that public pressure calling for pest status could influence the gov. to become more willing to issue capture permits.

"Which would you prefer? " I would prefer for our govenment to grow some balls. This issue is similar to the Grizzly bear cencus and Bill 11. It is about appeasing a few rather than really looking after our Wildlife.

I think this is what you said

[MountainTi]

Official stance...that sounds, well, so official....lmao.

Just passing along some facts Ti. Wild pigs far under the same act as feral horses but a further designation allows for the legal shooting of them. I was just pointing out that there were options, not that it was my prefered option...or official stance....LMAO Truthfully, I'd rather see them trapped and the trappers make some money. After that a government cull wouldn't bother me. I just want to see them gone....I'm not looking to have a hand in it.

There, that's my position paper on my official stance.....I doubt anyone will find it interesting though:snapoutofit:

So why again aren't you trying to save the pigs? What's your official stance on that....;)

Honestly don't don't much about the wild pigs, can't honestly say I have actually ever seen one running loose. Guess you could say I am uninformed on the subject, so therefore I have no opinion on it.
Didn't they make a Disney movie about a pig? It was kind of cute wasn't it?

[sheephunter]

I think this is what you said

I said the first quote yup. Walking buffalo said the other two. You'll see his name associated with them in your quotes. ?????????? We are two different people. ??????????

As I said, I was pointing out the fact that having a legal hunt was not the only means of the shooting of feral horses being legalized. Never passed comment on whether it was a good idea or not....just that it was a possible legal option....just as it is with hogs. Walking buffalo confirmed it.

[sheephunter]

Honestly don't don't much about the wild pigs, can't honestly say I have actually ever seen one running loose. Guess you could say I am uninformed on the subject, so therefore I have no opinion on it.
Didn't they make a Disney movie about a pig? It was kind of cute wasn't it?

You should do some research, they share a lot in common with feral horses in this province.

[MountainTi]

I said the first quote yup. Walking buffalo said the other two. You'll see his name associated with them in your quotes. ?????????? We are two different people. ??????????

.
Yep, got that. Read back and you will see what I am getting at.

[sheephunter]

Yep, got that. Read back and you will see what I am getting at.

I doubt it. I'm not good at these games.

[sheepguide]

I doubt it. I'm not good at these games.

Holy cow the darn post wasnt directed at you! It was directed at WB. And I hate to say it but you are king of these games.
SG

[MountainTi]

As I said, I was pointing out the fact that having a legal hunt was not the only means of the shooting of feral horses being legalized. Never passed comment on whether it was a good idea or not....just that it was a possible legal option....just as it is with hogs. Walking buffalo confirmed it.

Type in "wild horses or feral horses" in your googe search engine. One of the first things that pops up is this thread. How many others are gonna see this? While I, like others, have said that if it is proven that wild horses are causing a decline in the ungulate population, some herd thinning may be required but If suggestions of shooting them as an option are constanly being brought up, it is just more ammo for those that want to keep them all. Shooting, alpo, wolf bait ect...... just isn't good PR and not going to help out your cause at all, or if in fact it is proven there actually is too much competion with other herbivores, it's not going to help their cause either.

[MountainTi]

You should do some research, they share a lot in common with feral horses in this province.

Call me lazy, call me selfish, but I've never had anything to do with a wild pig, never seen one before, and they don't frequent any of the areas that I roam, so I haven't given much thought to them. The day that they start causing problems with me, I may become more interested. I will never give an opinion on the subject either till I am well informed and I consider myself knowledgeable on the subject.
I suppose I could google the issue, but to me, that doesn't inform me well enough to form any kind of opinion either

[sheepguide]

The worst thing with Google on any of these topics is that if you search it enough you can find stuff to back anything and any side of the topic that you wish.
SG

[MountainTi]

The worst thing with Google on any of these topics is that if you search it enough you can find stuff to back anything and any side of the topic that you wish.
SG

There can be a lot of good information on there, but also just as much bad info

[walking buffalo]

MountainTi....

I don't think I can explain my posts any more plainly. You changed my wording in your post #93.

Ask SG for clarification of what I said, he understands What I am Getting at.


Anyways,

I was talking with the owner of a small abottoir and meat export company.

Alberta is losing out on some serious money with how it markets it's horse meat in Europe. While prices are strong, we are missing the high end market.

Free range "Wild" horse meat! Shops in Europe offering a true taste of the wild west can charge some impressive prices for this delicacy. Our "Wild" horses are worth a lot more than we are getting for them from Bovier.

:scared0015: :lol:

[sheephunter]

Type in "wild horses or feral horses" in your googe search engine. One of the first things that pops up is this thread. How many others are gonna see this? While I, like others, have said that if it is proven that wild horses are causing a decline in the ungulate population, some herd thinning may be required but If suggestions of shooting them as an option are constanly being brought up, it is just more ammo for those that want to keep them all. Shooting, alpo, wolf bait ect...... just isn't good PR and not going to help out your cause at all, or if in fact it is proven there actually is too much competion with other herbivores, it's not going to help their cause either.

I don't have a cause...perhaps that's where all your confusion lies. I'm just a guy educating myself on feral horses for my job and I happened to share some facts and opinions on a messageboard.

[Lonnie]

MountainTi....

I don't think I can explain my posts any more plainly. You changed my wording in your post #93.

Ask SG for clarification of what I said, he understands What I am Getting at.


Anyways,

I was talking with the owner of a small abottoir and meat export company.

Alberta is losing out on some serious money with how it markets it's horse meat in Europe. While prices are strong, we are missing the high end market.

Free range "Wild" horse meat! Shops in Europe offering a true taste of the wild west can charge some impressive prices for this delicacy. Our "Wild" horses are worth a lot more than we are getting for them from Bovier.

:scared0015: :lol:

they should sell horse meat right here in canada right along side pork and beef,chicken,lamb, etc......then people may start to understand they are a farm animals, afew wild horses or pigs don't mean much but to many of any thing becomes a problem.

[MountainTi]

I don't have a cause...perhaps that's where all your confusion lies. I'm just a guy educating myself on feral horses for my job and I happened to share some facts and opinions on a messageboard.

No confusion here boy

[yukon12]

Simple fact in parkers ridge area west of Bearberry you can find easily over a hundred horses in a half a day of traveling. Never use to be like. If I keep adding horses to my herd on the farm than I got to have less cows plain and simple that is the logic for me. More horses means less resources particularly in the winter for Elk and Deer.

If guys love them so much than take them home but I am tired of going out in the woods and everything looking like a farm.

The argument that the public does not want them shot might have a point. So than round them up and give them to the public or the meat packers either way get the population in control.

They are no differnt than feral pigs in my opinion except for the romatic part for some people.

Again I love horses have a field full of them I just know they are livestock not wild life.

Should I let my cows out and start calling them wild give me a break.

[yukon12]

Also the goverment considers them escaped livestock not wildlife. That is why these guys are criminally charged with shooting cattle i.e a horse and not under the wildlife act.

So the goverment should clean up their livestock that is all over the west country.

Also with B.C. shooting them on the spot the argument that we can not does not make sense either. Is the public in B.C. so differnt than Alberta I doubt it.

Might be time to open up a agency called citizens against feral animals dedictated to the clean up of the forest reserve once and for all.

[walking buffalo]

Simple fact in parkers ridge area west of Bearberry you can find easily over a hundred horses in a half a day of traveling. Never use to be like. If I keep adding horses to my herd on the farm than I got to have less cows plain and simple that is the logic for me. More horses means less resources particularly in the winter for Elk and Deer.

If guys love them so much than take them home but I am tired of going out in the woods and everything looking like a farm.

The argument that the public does not want them shot might have a point. So than round them up and give them to the public or the meat packers either way get the population in control.

They are no differnt than feral pigs in my opinion except for the romatic part for some people.

Again I love horses have a field full of them I just know they are livestock not wild life.

Should I let my cows out and start calling them wild give me a break.

Feral pigs and horses are effectively being treated the same by the gov. Nothing is being done to actually deal with the problem.

[Donkey Oatey]

Feral pigs and horses are effectively being treated the same by the gov. Nothing is being done to actually deal with the problem.

Other than feral pigs being declared a pest in the Province of Alberta when at large and anyone that has them on their land MUST take active measures to destroy the pest.

Absolutely not the same as horses.

[yukon12]

Other than feral pigs being declared a pest in the Province of Alberta when at large and anyone that has them on their land MUST take active measures to destroy the pest.

Absolutely not the same as horses.

How do you figure this? The Alberta goverment considers both the feral pigs and the feral horses escaped livestock. If the feral horses enter private land they can be treated from my understanding the same way feral pigs are treated you just do not get a bounty like you do for pig ears. The issue with the horses is they effect public land a lot more than they do private land which is the oposite of the pigs from what I understand.

We simple have no way of dealing effectively with the feral horses because we have allowed special intrest groups who are bent on using them as a tool to further their cause of limiting hunting and increasing park space that severaly restricts receration activities. It is time I think to stop this LEGALLY of course.

Round them up and get them out of there this is gone on way to long.

[Donkey Oatey]

How do you figure this? The Alberta goverment considers both the feral pigs and the feral horses escaped livestock. If the feral horses enter private land they can be treated from my understanding the same way feral pigs are treated you just do not get a bounty like you do for pig ears. The issue with the horses is they effect public land a lot more than they do private land which is the oposite of the pigs from what I understand.

We simple have no way of dealing effectively with the feral horses because we have allowed special intrest groups who are bent on using them as a tool to further their cause of limiting hunting and increasing park space that severaly restricts receration activities. It is time I think to stop this LEGALLY of course.

Round them up and get them out of there this is gone on way to long.

Actually you can not do the same thing to horses as you can wild boar. Once at large wild boar are pest and are not dealt with under the Stray Animals Act. You may not shoot a horse at anytime unless it is your own.

That is the difference.

[Donkey Oatey]

As a side note. Feral horses have been declared a nuisance in certain areas of the province.

(2) A horse (Equus caballus) is declared to be a nuisance where it is at large in any of the following wildlife management units, as described in Schedule 9 to the Wildlife Regulation (AR 143/97):

Wolf River Wildlife Management Unit (340);

McLeod River Wildlife Management Unit (342);

Wildhay Wildlife Management Unit (344);

Shiningbank Wildlife Management Unit (346);

Coalspur Wildlife Management Unit (438);

Solomon Wildlife Management Unit (439);

Adams Creek Wildlife Management Unit (440).


Alberta Ag is paying wranglers to get horses out of this area.

[walking buffalo]

As a side note. Feral horses have been declared a nuisance in certain areas of the province.

(2) A horse (Equus caballus) is declared to be a nuisance where it is at large in any of the following wildlife management units, as described in Schedule 9 to the Wildlife Regulation (AR 143/97):

Wolf River Wildlife Management Unit (340);

McLeod River Wildlife Management Unit (342);

Wildhay Wildlife Management Unit (344);

Shiningbank Wildlife Management Unit (346);

Coalspur Wildlife Management Unit (438);

Solomon Wildlife Management Unit (439);

Adams Creek Wildlife Management Unit (440).


Alberta Ag is paying wranglers to get horses out of this area.



I've been curious about this clause in the Pest Act. Does this mean feral horses in these zones can be captured without a permit or shot on private or occupied land?


Methods to control nuisance
8 An owner or occupant of land may control a nuisance on that
land by means that are generally considered to be sound husbandry
practices and that comply with all applicable laws.

[walking buffalo]

How do you figure this? The Alberta goverment considers both the feral pigs and the feral horses escaped livestock. If the feral horses enter private land they can be treated from my understanding the same way feral pigs are treated you just do not get a bounty like you do for pig ears. The issue with the horses is they effect public land a lot more than they do private land which is the oposite of the pigs from what I understand.

We simple have no way of dealing effectively with the feral horses because we have allowed special intrest groups who are bent on using them as a tool to further their cause of limiting hunting and increasing park space that severaly restricts receration activities. It is time I think to stop this LEGALLY of course.

Round them up and get them out of there this is gone on way to long.

What I am implying is that the Gov. is not taking active physical acton to deal with these escaped livestock. The horse issue could be solved fairly easily.

Feral wild boar are going to become a huge widespread problem in Alberta. A quick look at the problems these pigs are causing in the US is all we need to study to know how serious this problem will get.

All that the gov. seems to be doing to deal with pigs is paperwork. They should be treating them like Norway Rats. Make it illegal for anybody to own them, send out erradication teams to remove all pigs whenever sightings are reported. It will be so much less expensive to pay for pig erradication now than to have our kids pay for it down the road.

[BrownBear416]

Lets keep this thread on the topic of Wild horses please...

The posts that were deleted should be sent in Pm's..

[Dark Wing]

So who exactly do you call if you witness someone dumping horses onto crown land? I tried contacting someone in SRD last fall and didn't get a response.

[Donkey Oatey]

Since they are livestock contact LIS (LIvestock Inspection Services) they are the brand inspectors. Let them deal with it.

[Dark Wing]

Since they are livestock contact LIS (LIvestock Inspection Services) they are the brand inspectors. Let them deal with it.

So what is their procedure with dealing with unbranded horses on crown land. In 06 a group of horses was released to fend for themselves for the winter but deep snows kept them close to the road and a few got hit. The suspected owner was questioned and denied ownership and thats as far as I think it went.