Elk Ranch Ad In The Paper

[ram crazy]

I found this ad in the local paper. Maybe game farm hunting is coming. Alberta's Elk ranchers are independent people who believe in the same core values all Albertans treasure:
>they welcome diversity
>they see challenges as opportunities
>they are committed to do the right thing for Alberta's future

I wonder what that future is? It goes on to say Elk fit this discripition perfectly. One animal offers them several different products to market from Velvet and meat to breeding stock and TROPHY ANIMALS ????

[Redfrog]

Which paper?

[Tundra Monkey]

•Trophy bulls - to promote the harvest of farmed trophy bulls in Alberta.
•Breeding stock - to promote the quality of Alberta's breeding stock.


Yup.....definately thinking that is their mandate after visiting the site mentioned.

http://www.albertaelkcommission.com/about/goals.php

tm

[chasingtail]

How would most people try Elk if there were no game farms.

[Tundra Monkey]

Safer to stay away from posting that you are indifferent to these farms around AB Chasingtail :scared0018:

I think they're fine but I ain't in AB so I don't post on these threads very often.....self preservation in the eyes of my peers on here :scared:

tm

[IR_mike]

How would most people try Elk if there were no game farms.

By putting in the time required to go and hunt a wild one.

I think the need to stop potential disease transmission far outweighs the importance of people being able to "try" farmed elk meat. :snapoutofit:

P.S. Good well cared for grain fed wild whitetail tastes more like wild elk than farmed elk does any ways IMHO.

[Iron Brew]

Definitely time to start pressuring the government to get rid of game farms entirely. The Cons are running scared in Alberta now, a good time to pressure them. Also to the WildRose and Alberta parties... not to mention Libs and NDP. Maybe grandfather in existing ones, with no new LAND or animal licenses.

[mudbug]

Definitely time to start pressuring the government to get rid of game farms entirely. The Cons are running scared in Alberta now, a good time to pressure them. Also to the WildRose and Alberta parties... not to mention Libs and NDP. Maybe grandfather in existing ones, with no new LAND or animal licenses.

X2 except no grandfathering in existing ones

[Redfrog]

X2 except no grandfathering in existing ones

X2

[Tundra Monkey]

Definitely time to start pressuring the government to get rid of game farms entirely. The Cons are running scared in Alberta now, a good time to pressure them. Also to the WildRose and Alberta parties... not to mention Libs and NDP. Maybe grandfather in existing ones, with no new LAND or animal licenses.

I think if you look around the world at fenced hunting operations you will find that the vast majority of owners/operators fall to the politcal right....not all, but the majority for sure.

How would you pressure them? Do you think that the majority of Albertans would move left to support someone that is against these operations??

tm

[Jimboy]

You ever see a majestic bull elk after his antlers are cut off while in velvet , they bleed and the blood profusely runs down his face into his eyes , the bull at this time is so stressed out it changes his brain waves , and after its finished the bull retreats to shame with little or no normal behavior , turns into a piece of meat and ashamed to be even near the cows.

[Fisherpeak]

Same as farmed salmon,huge increase in sea lice affecting wild populations.

[Donkey Oatey]

Same as farmed salmon,huge increase in sea lice affecting wild populations.

yet another myth debunked by science. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/sea-lice-not-cause-of-wild-salmon-collapse-researchers-say/article1835717/

[ram crazy]

The ad was in the Lethbridge Sun Times paper.

[Tundra Monkey]

You ever see a majestic bull elk after his antlers are cut off while in velvet , they bleed and the blood profusely runs down his face into his eyes , the bull at this time is so stressed out it changes his brain waves , and after its finished the bull retreats to shame with little or no normal behavior , turns into a piece of meat and ashamed to be even near the cows.

How does a majestic bull cow react when you do the same or chop his twins off :sHa_shakeshout:

Just sayin....these are animals in the end.....not people with "feelings".

tm

[Jamie]

yet another myth debunked by science. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/sea-lice-not-cause-of-wild-salmon-collapse-researchers-say/article1835717/

Industry data + Industry scientists = Industry Propaganda
Perhaps it was a case of the above??????

Farmed Elk can not be good for what we have here in Alberta. Forgett the emotional response of people hunting behind fences. Thats their call. Not ours. I am concerned with the effects of these ranches on our native species.

Jamie

[Fisherpeak]

Industry data + Industry scientists = Industry Propaganda
Perhaps it was a case of the above??????

Farmed Elk can not be good for what we have here in Alberta. Forgett the emotional response of people hunting behind fences. Thats their call. Not ours. I am concerned with the effects of these ranches on our native species.

Jamie

That`s what I meant about farm salmon.As a Great Pcific Salmon Lodge guy I think you know what I mean.

[Angus81]

Just read the same ad in this weeks Rimbey review.

[Fish Feathers Game]

I found this ad in the local paper.

Ram crazy, I can't get over the fact you can finally read!!!:sHa_shakeshout:

[Donkey Oatey]

Industry data + Industry scientists = Industry Propaganda
Perhaps it was a case of the above??????

Jamie

Sorry Jaimie I don't buy it. From the arcticle.

The report, by Gary Marty of the University of California, Davis, Sonja Saksida of the B.C. Centre for Aquatic Health Sciences and Terrance Quinn of the University of Alaska, is unequivocal: There is no direct correlation between the number of lice in salmon farms and the decline of wild stocks.

Sounds like these guys are researchers for Uni's. Doesn't look like industry scientists to me.

Sorry for the side bar to the discussion.

[Jamie]

That`s what I meant about farm salmon.As a Great Pcific Salmon Lodge guy I think you know what I mean.

Damn right. It scares the heck out of me both on a business and personal level.

WHY OH WHY did they let Atlantic Salmon into Pacific waters?

Good lord I just dont get it.

Jamie

[ram crazy]

I found this ad in the local paper.

Ram crazy, I can't get over the fact you can finally read!!!:sHa_shakeshout:

I figured you were getting tired of read to me, so I thought it was time to learn. ;)

[walking buffalo]

It is no secret that the "Industry" is pushing for shooting preserves. The game farms are not economically viable without this component.

CWD is still running rampant on game farms in Saskatchewan.
Four more Game Farms in Saskatchewan have tested positive for CWD in Nov.2010 - Feb. 2011. The total number of Sask. game farms that have tested positve for CWD is now at least 48!

There are only 55 Sask. game farms out of nearly 500 that are registered as Certified CWD Free. There are nearly as many CWD infected game farms as Certified CWD free!

Have a look at this 2008 CWD map from Sask.

THis is what we will have happen here in Alberta if Bill 11 is passed, and Agriculture changes the rules to allow the importation of elk and deer to farms.

http://www.bcwf.net/images/stories/Committee/Wildlife/Wildlife_Conflicts_and_Game_Farming/WildFarmedCervidsDec08.pdf


Here is the North America CWD map.

http://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/disease_information/chronic_wasting_disease/index.jsp


Tundra Monkey...

The Territories were vigorously opposed to game farms and killed the industries attempt to set up shop up north. For the right reasons. Disease issues are just part of the problem.

It doesn't matter that you don't live here anymore. I'm sure you understand that Alberta Agriculture is attempting to destroy 100 years of Wildlife management by re-defining elk and deer as "alternative livestock".

They are attempting to take us down the road to the king deciding who will "own" the peoples wildlife.

BILL 11 must DIE!

[sheephunter]

So why does the government keep saying one thing yet the elk ranchers are going on like hunt farms are happening. Something seems a bit off here. What's with the big public push by the elk ranchers lately?

[walking buffalo]

So why does the government keep saying one thing yet the elk ranchers are going on like hunt farms are happening. Something seems a bit off here. What's with the big public push by the elk ranchers lately?

The gov. is playing politics. Bill 11 is the next step to allowing hunt farms.

The gov. has heard loudly from the public that the "cultural shift" described by Mininster Prins exists only in Wonderland. Those few involved in game farming are realizing that the passing of their Pet legislation will not be a gimme.

The inside word is that there is a weakening desire within the PC party to "Gift" the select few with the passing of this Bill.

It is close to being time for another round of letters, this time demanding that "domestic cervids" remain under the authority of the Wildlife Act.

[Couleestalker]

The ad was also in the Brooks chronicle

[albertadave]

How does a majestic bull cow react when you do the same or chop his twins off :sHa_shakeshout:

Just sayin....these are animals in the end.....not people with "feelings".

tm

Bull cow???

[Redfrog]

as opposed to a bull elk.

[Donkey Oatey]

The gov. is playing politics. Bill 11 is the next step to allowing hunt farms.

The gov. has heard loudly from the public that the "cultural shift" described by Mininster Prins exists only in Wonderland. Those few involved in game farming are realizing that the passing of their Pet legislation will not be a gimme.

The inside word is that there is a weakening desire within the PC party to "Gift" the select few with the passing of this Bill.

It is close to being time for another round of letters, this time demanding that "domestic cervids" remain under the authority of the Wildlife Act.

Once again a misunderstanding of the facts. Alberta Agriculture and Rural Development have been and still are in charge of domestic cervids under the existing Livestock Industry Diversification Act. F&W and the Wildlife Act have zero say over licensing and monitoring of these elk and deer farms. Not sure where the misunderstanding has come from. Alberta Ag has been monitoring and licensing these farms since the mid '90s. The only thing in the Wildlife Act is about stray animals from these farms and import/export permits. And these have been delegated to Alberta Ag for about 2 yrs. Here is a list on Alberta Ag's website that shows duties and contact information. http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/rsb12648

Killing bill 11 will not remove cervids from the control of Alberta Ag. Sorry folks.

[walking buffalo]

Once again a misunderstanding of the facts. Alberta Agriculture and Rural Development have been and still are in charge of domestic cervids under the existing Livestock Industry Diversification Act. F&W and the Wildlife Act have zero say over licensing and monitoring of these elk and deer farms. Not sure where the misunderstanding has come from. Alberta Ag has been monitoring and licensing these farms since the mid '90s. The only thing in the Wildlife Act is about stray animals from these farms and import/export permits. And these have been delegated to Alberta Ag for about 2 yrs. Here is a list on Alberta Ag's website that shows duties and contact information. http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/rsb12648

Killing bill 11 will not remove cervids from the control of Alberta Ag. Sorry folks.

I did not offer any misunderstanding representing SRD's and ARD's present roles in the present legislations; the Wildlife Act, the Stray Animal Act, and the Livestock Industry Diversification Act.

Your info is correct but not complete regarding SRD's and ARD's reponsibilities with "domestic cervids". SRD still has the responsibility and authority to deal with escaped cervids. The inclusion of "domestic cervids" within the Wildlife Act is the legislation that is stopping the legalization of privatizing these animals and regulates how they are managed. There are many offences that will be charged under the Wildlife Act for events that can occur on game farms.

Killing Bill 11 WILL keep "domestic Cervids" classified as Wildlife. Killing Bill 11 will allow SRD to deal with escaped Cervids, as these animals are considered Wildlife under present legislation. Killing Bill 11 will keep Alberta from being a big step closer to shooting preserves for everything from Farmed Aardvarks to Zebra.

Killing Bill 11 is the right thing to do for the sake of all Wildlife in Alberta.

[Donkey Oatey]

I did not offer any misunderstanding representing SRD's and ARD's present roles in the present legislations; the Wildlife Act, the Stray Animal Act, and the Livestock Industry Diversification Act.

Your info is correct but not complete regarding SRD's and ARD's reponsibilities with "domestic cervids". SRD still has the responsibility and authority to deal with escaped cervids. The inclusion of "domestic cervids" within the Wildlife Act is the legislation that is stopping the legalization of privatizing these animals and regulates how they are managed. There are many offences that will be charged under the Wildlife Act for events that can occur on game farms.

Killing Bill 11 WILL keep "domestic Cervids" classified as Wildlife. Killing Bill 11 will allow SRD to deal with escaped Cervids, as these animals are considered Wildlife under present legislation. Killing Bill 11 will keep Alberta from being a big step closer to shooting preserves for everything from Farmed Aardvarks to Zebra.

Killing Bill 11 is the right thing to do for the sake of all Wildlife in Alberta.


Sorry but your information is incorrect. SRD has not had anything to do with "escaped" cervids for about 2yrs now. It is still in the Wildlife Act but a MOU was signed between Ag and F&W that turned the responsibility over to Alberta Ag.

After reading LIDA and the Wildlife Act I don't see where there are many offenses you say there are that chargeable under the Wildlife Act for things occurring on a Cervid farm. Can you point some of these out for me.

As for domestic cervids being considered wildlife once again not entirely correct. Straight from the Wildlife Act section 1(1) (f.1) “domestic cervid”, “domestic cervid production farm”, “authorized present or prospective domestic cervid” and “prospective domestic cervid” have the meanings respectively ascribed to those expressions by the Livestock Industry Diversification Act, and “domestic cervid production farm licence” means a licence issued under that Act;

So in fact a domestic cervid is just that, a domestic cervid as defined by LIDA. They are not wildlife.

[walking buffalo]

Donkey.. copy and paste links, the sites don't allow direct linking of these pages.

http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/acts6136


Under the current provisions of the Wildlife Act and Wildlife Regulation, which is administered by Sustainable Resource Development (SRD), domestic cervids may revert to being Crown property if they have escaped and are at large for 48 hours.



http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/div11774/$file/dcm-2009.pdf?OpenElement



3. Legislative Authority

The Livestock Industry Diversification Act (LIDA) gives authority to farm deer, elk and moose in Alberta. LIDA is administered by Alberta Agriculture & Food, Regulatory Services Division. The Wildlife Act and Regulations may apply in some circumstances. They are administered by Alberta Sustainable Resource Development, Fish and Wildlife Division, Enforcement - Field Services Branch and the Wildlife Management Branch.


C. Stray Domestic Cervids

Escaped Domestic Cervids are those cervids that are no longer confined by the fenced facilities meant to house them. If a situation arises where a domestic cervid(s) is outside the fenced area the producer should contact Regulatory Services Division as soon as this situation has been discovered. All stray domestic cervids must be reported to Alberta Sustainable Resource Development. This can be accomplished by contacting Regulatory Services Division or directly to Alberta Sustainable Resource Development.

[Donkey Oatey]

Donkey.. copy and paste links, the sites don't allow direct linking of these pages.

http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/acts6136






http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/div11774/$file/dcm-2009.pdf?OpenElement

Your quote was incomplete and misleading.

This legislation applies exclusively to domestic cervids, that is to say, elk, moose, and deer. From an operational standpoint, elk and deer farms are the main focus of the Act.
.
The term “domestic” is an important qualifier when referring to cervids because it creates a distinction between those animals which may be farmed and those that are considered to be wildlife. Whereas an investor may own domestic cervids, only the Crown may own cervids that are considered to be wildlife, and live in the wild. Under the current provisions of the Wildlife Act and Wildlife Regulation, which is administered by Sustainable Resource Development (SRD), domestic cervids may revert to being Crown property if they have escaped and are at large for 48 hours.

There are plans to transfer fully legislative responsibility for all domestic cervids from SRD to ARD. In the interim, certain ARD staff have been delegated authority to deal with domestic cervid matters under the Wildlife Act and Wildlife Regulation as they relate to permits and licenses for import, export, collection, escape, and capture.
As it shows those authorities have been delegated to Alberta Ag not F&W.

[walking buffalo]

Your quote was incomplete and misleading.


As it shows those authorities have been delegated to Alberta Ag not F&W.

Donkey,

There is nothing misleading in my quote, it clearly shows that SRD and the Wildlife Act still have some authority regarding "domestic cervids". Incomplete? I linked the source so that the entire document was available.

If you have documentation to back up your claims, post it up. It would be great to see that the gov. has done some more back room deals to remove ownership and management of the people's wildlife into the hands of a few.

[Donkey Oatey]

Donkey,

There is nothing misleading in my quote, it clearly shows that SRD and the Wildlife Act still have some authority regarding "domestic cervids". Incomplete? I linked the source so that the entire document was available.

If you have documentation to back up your claims, post it up. It would be great to see that the gov. has done some more back room deals to remove ownership and management of the people's wildlife into the hands of a few.

Yes it was misleading as it was incomplete. You purposely left out information that was contrary to your point of view. Skewing it to fit your view. That is why I posted the whole thing showing that those responsibilities that you claim are F&W's are in fact no long their responsibility but that of Alberta Ag.

I could do the same with the Wildlife Act and post a direct quote that says hunting is illegal in Alberta. Cause it is. I could just leave out the part that says without a license. It would be correct but misleading.

[walking buffalo]

So Donkey,

Where is the documentation that SRD has transfered authority to ARD to deal with escaped domestic cervids? Or are you just misleading AO?

[Donkey Oatey]

So Donkey,

Where is the documentation that SRD has transfered authority to ARD to deal with escaped domestic cervids? Or are you just misleading AO?

That is what you missed in your original quote. The part that I added.

There are plans to transfer fully legislative responsibility for all domestic cervids from SRD to ARD. In the interim, certain ARD staff have been delegated authority to deal with domestic cervid matters under the Wildlife Act and Wildlife Regulation as they relate to permits and licenses for import, export, collection, escape, and capture.

Says it right in the same place you were looking.

[Tundra Monkey]

Tundra Monkey...

The Territories were vigorously opposed to game farms and killed the industries attempt to set up shop up north. For the right reasons. Disease issues are just part of the problem.

It doesn't matter that you don't live here anymore. I'm sure you understand that Alberta Agriculture is attempting to destroy 100 years of Wildlife management by re-defining elk and deer as "alternative livestock".

They are attempting to take us down the road to the king deciding who will "own" the peoples wildlife.

BILL 11 must DIE!

WalkingBuffalo:

I'm not aware of any fenced operations that have ever been suggested up here....maybe they have....just not aware of them.

Last time I was in Sundre I drove by a ton of Elk farms. I did notice that there is a lot less of them now than a few years back.....at least in the area I was. So, in my mind they are already there but they are treated like cows.

I try not to post my views concerning this issue as I'm not a "local"...but here it goes:

As long as they are truly fenced....I got no issue with it. Calling it hunting....OK....for sure not. But it can and would be a lot of fun IMO. Give me a bow and six 375" elk in a wooded Section of fenced land......I would have a blast for weekend trying to get one.

I also think it is a good thing for young or disabled "hunters".

I don't see how you feel that they are taking ownership of wildlife away from the pple....we are talking about farm raised animals. I would think that the farmer/rancher owns and is responsible/accountable for them.

tm

[walking buffalo]

That is what you missed in your original quote. The part that I added.



Says it right in the same place you were looking.

SRD still has the authority and Responsibility to deal with escaped cervids. That is right in the updated Livestock Industry Diversification Act Directives and Procedures Manual that I linked.

TM...

I really doubt you would have fun with a canned elk hunt. These animals are raised from birth being bucket fed for years before being put in the shooting enclosure. Have a look. Canned archery hunt.

"we chased the bull for two days straight"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oCR760YSRE&feature=related

[Brudus]

Same large ad is in today's "Vegreville Advertiser" paper.

[Donkey Oatey]

SRD still has the authority and Responsibility to deal with escaped cervids. That is right in the updated Livestock Industry Diversification Act Directives and Procedures Manual that I linked.

TM...

I really doubt you would have fun with a canned elk hunt. These animals are raised from birth being bucket fed for years before being put in the shooting enclosure. Have a look. Canned archery hunt.

"we chased the bull for two days straight"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oCR760YSRE&feature=related

Yep it appears that the online manual was updated on October 14, 2009. Does that mean the whole document was updated?

Disclaimer
This manual is neither a legal document nor a complete explanation of the current Livestock Industry Diversification Act (LIDA) or the Wildlife Act. It is published to assist Regulatory Services Inspectors, licensed domestic cervid producers and prospective domestic cervid producers to understand the policies, rules and regulations respecting the domestic cervid production farm industry in Alberta.

Regulations and policies may change between publications of this manual, where this has occurred those changes will supersede this manual. Specific details concerning the regulations as they apply to domestic cervid production farming in Alberta may be obtained by contacting Regulatory Services Division in Red Deer, Alberta.

Where as the link you posted http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/acts6136 Says that the authority has been transferred to Alberta Ag was updated on December 17, 2010.

As of today Alberta Agriculture has complete control over cervid farms and F&W have none. I would suggest talking to someone with F&W to confirm. If you talk to an Officer as who takes care of stray domestic cervids. The answer will be Alberta Ag. Talk to someone in their head office and ask them about domestic cervids and they will say it is Agriculture's shop.

Not for or against Bill 11, just trying to clear up some misunderstandings.