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dodger
05-26-2011, 06:53 PM
Last weekend I had to call F&W about a serious incident. They called me today to update me on my findings and it was 50/50 on what I suspected.

Here's the part I want to talk about. During my conversation with the F&W officer on the phone we started to make some small talk. I asked him if he has been busy down South where I was fishing. He said he has been run ragged with calls of poaching. THE PROBLEM IS - all the calls are about visible minorities poaching and out of all his responses to the calls he found 1 guy whose barb was 1/2 *****ed pinched. He said it seems every time one of these group of people are out fishing someone calls about poaching.

If we are not certain a person is doing something illegal maybe we should give a moments thought about calling "R.A.P ". We all complain about not enough enforcement, but - if we are sending the few officers we have on Goose chases and pulling them away from a "real " possible problem then we are not helping our common goal of saving our outdoor passions.

JUST FOOD FOR THOUGHT.

Dodger.

FishingFrenzy
05-26-2011, 07:54 PM
Great post Dodger. Definately food for thought...

If your not worried about being verbally/physically attacked it might be worth people getting a little closer, talking to the "poachers" see whats actully going on. (instead of seeing something from a distance and calling..) Could save F&W a lot of time/money.

Thanks for that!

Tight lines!

Photoplex
05-26-2011, 08:21 PM
Good point, well made. Thanks Dodger

Dust1n
05-26-2011, 08:29 PM
good post.
i think mabe "if" people were doing something wrong its not because they mean to its because they dont know and its up to us to point it out.

WayneChristie
05-26-2011, 08:38 PM
good post.
i think mabe "if" people were doing something wrong its not because they mean to its because they dont know and its up to us to point it out.

nope, if they are fishing its up to them to know and practice the rules, not us to point the rules out to them.

Dust1n
05-26-2011, 08:42 PM
nope, if they are fishing its up to them to know and practice the rules, not us to point the rules out to them.

yeah but say if you went over to asia and couldnt read the laugnue to well and you got in trouble for 'poaching"

scudman
05-26-2011, 08:45 PM
yeah but say if you went over to asia and couldnt read the laugnue to well and you got in trouble for 'poaching"

Language barrier is no excuse. you come to Canada, learn English, You have any idea how hard it is to order a double double at Timmys? I try and get my normal coffee and end up with a chicken salad sandwich and ice tea, then try to explain thats not what I wanted and end up giving up becasue its pointless...

sigh....

Braun
05-26-2011, 08:46 PM
yeah but say if you went over to asia and couldnt read the laugnue to well and you got in trouble for 'poaching"

lol i cant wait for waynes response on this one.

if i couldnt read the regs i would ask someone who could or i would use a guide in a foreign country because it would be my responsibility to figure out and follow the regs

Dust1n
05-26-2011, 08:47 PM
Language barrier is no excuse. you come to Canada, learn English, You have any idea how hard it is to order a double double at Timmys? I try and get my normal coffee and end up with a chicken salad sandwich and ice tea, then try to explain thats not what I wanted and end up giving up becasue its pointless...

sigh....

Alright i see your points you both made. im just saying it dosent hurt to show them the regs...if thyre doing something wrong

Braun
05-26-2011, 08:51 PM
Alright i see your points you both made. im just saying it dosent hurt to show them the regs...if thyre doing something wrong

in certain cases yes. i have helps a couple people out who dont know the regs. but it comes down to the attitude of the person

GaryF
05-26-2011, 08:55 PM
yeah but say if you went over to asia and couldnt read the laugnue to well and you got in trouble for 'poaching"

If I went anywhere in the world to fish, its my responsibility to know the regs, whatever the language. They wouldn't care if I didn't know the language, I'd get caned anyways.

Dust1n
05-26-2011, 09:12 PM
If I went anywhere in the world to fish, its my responsibility to know the regs, whatever the language. They wouldn't care if I didn't know the language, I'd get caned anyways.

yeah i guess they wouldnt care too much....

commieboy
05-26-2011, 09:25 PM
I think the real point here is that people are calling R.A.P. and reporting people based on the colour of their skin rather than on any other tangible evidence.

As expressed by many on this board, the overwhelming consensus is that most Asians are poachers. So of course, if you see an Asian on the water, it's safe to assume they must be poaching and thus we should put in a call to R.A.P.

Alberta.... what a friendly place.

chubbdarter
05-26-2011, 09:28 PM
i report Bob Izumi.....everytime i see his TV show

FishingFrenzy
05-26-2011, 09:43 PM
I think the real point here is that people are calling R.A.P. and reporting people based on the colour of their skin rather than on any other tangible evidence.

As expressed by many on this board, the overwhelming consensus is that most Asians are poachers. So of course, if you see an Asian on the water, it's safe to assume they must be poaching and thus we should put in a call to R.A.P.

Alberta.... what a friendly place.

I agree 100%. I have a few Asian friends.. there great guys.. I dont even think of them being "Asian". There people just like you and I.. Maybe there are some or even alot of Asian poachers.. but im betting there's alot of white ones too..


i report Bob Izumi.....everytime i see his TV show

:lol: Thanks for that chubb.. gave me a laugh!

chubbdarter
05-26-2011, 09:50 PM
I agree 100%. I have a few Asian friends.. there great guys.. I dont even think of them being "Asian". There people just like you and I.. Maybe there are some or even alot of Asian poachers.. but im betting there's alot of white ones too..




:lol: Thanks for that chubb.. gave me a laugh!


crap..Bob is half white....he is the worst possible combination

WayneChristie
05-26-2011, 10:33 PM
yeah but say if you went over to asia and couldnt read the laugnue to well and you got in trouble for 'poaching"

Id probably be able to read the regs over there, as long as your cousin didnt write them!!!

Crossfire
05-27-2011, 01:53 AM
I think the real point here is that people are calling R.A.P. and reporting people based on the colour of their skin rather than on any other tangible evidence.

As expressed by many on this board, the overwhelming consensus is that most Asians are poachers. So of course, if you see an Asian on the water, it's safe to assume they must be poaching and thus we should put in a call to R.A.P.

Alberta.... what a friendly place.

I dont think that has anything to do with the point im pretty sure that the point dodger is making is telling us to make sure we are reporting something that is indeed a crime not just suspicion . HE NEVER SAID LETS ALL STOP REPORTING THE ASIANS UNLESS WE KNOW FOR SURE THEY ARE COMMITING A CRIME. HE SAID DONT REPORT SOMEONE(anyone) UNLESS YOU ARE SURE THEY ARE POACHING OR COMMITING A CRIMe.
His post had nothing to do with color of skin or race.
People are just calling R.A.P on there suspician without evidence sometimes make sure we are reporting things that are not waisting the conservation officers time

BGSH
05-27-2011, 02:20 AM
[QUOTE=Crossfire;955603]I dont think that has anything to do with the point im pretty sure that the point dodger is making is telling us to make sure we are reporting something that is indeed a crime not just suspicion . HE NEVER SAID LETS ALL STOP REPORTING THE ASIANS UNLESS WE KNOW FOR SURE THEY ARE COMMITING A CRIME. HE SAID DONT REPORT SOMEONE(anyone) UNLESS YOU ARE SURE THEY ARE POACHING OR COMMITING A CRIMe.
His post had nothing to do with color of skin or race.
People are just calling R.A.P on there suspician without evidence sometimes make sure we are reporting things that are not waisting the conservation officers time[/


Dont call r.a.p unless you do see someone keeping fish or harming wildlife, I talked to fish and wildlife alot the past month and they always tell me to call r.a.p if someone is keeping fish that is not aloud unless other wise posted, and keeping over limit of fish, that being said if i see someones fishing lure of bait beside me and i notice its barbed i explain to them the regs, if they dont obey i just call r.a.p in that case, and if they do obey thats great. Only report if you know for sure someone is doing something illegal or suspious activity for example someone driving through feilds at night may be poachers as well.

dodger
05-27-2011, 05:02 AM
My concern is people are calling R.A.P. without much thought to the time required by the officer to respond to a "maybe" situation. Unfortunetly it seems the Asian community is harder hit on suspect situations than others and that is a sad reflection on our fishing community.

Dodger.

Freedom55
05-27-2011, 07:31 AM
The only times that I have ever seen "poaching" the "perps and un-subs" were white guys about 25-30 years old. I may have talked to other anglers who had done something wrong that I did not observe, but I am not a nosey person. That said, one fellow I am referring to had just landed a 5 lb bull trout that he slung in a bag. When I hollered at him from my boat that bulls are a protected species, he hauled four more out of (Upper Kananaskis) lake on a chain stringer, displayed them to me then RAN LIKE HELL. No way I could catch him, but I can tell you this; he was white and he was a thief.

A good friend of mine was observed, charged and convicted for "molesting" fish for taking a large trout from a fish trap on Three Point Creek with his hands. White guy. Poaching.

Oddly enough, I have learned by reading this forum that if a dark skinned foreign national is practicing a particular activity there is a better than even chance a law being broken or disregarded. However, if it is a white boy (as in younger than his European-boomer parents) that is disregarding the rules, then it is named "my right" and the practice is allowable because of some sort of entitlement clause.

I wouldn't call this forum a racist crowd. No way. I would call it the "After Me You're First" crowd.

Good thing the fella that opened the door of the camper in the littering (or is that the "I haven't picked that up yet") video was a W.A.S.P. We would have to endure a lot more racism disguised as sportsmanship than we typically do, and I would have to rethink my "not racists" comment.

Free (to publish long winded stories)

TyreeUM
05-27-2011, 07:52 AM
Oddly enough, I have learned by reading this forum that if a dark skinned foreign national is practicing a particular activity there is a better than even chance a law being broken or disregarded. However, if it is a white boy (as in younger than his European-boomer parents) that is disregarding the rules, then it is named "my right" and the practice is allowable because of some sort of entitlement clause.

This comment is laughable at best...

commieboy
05-27-2011, 07:57 AM
His post had nothing to do with color of skin or race.


Really? Did you read the part about the false reports being made towards VISIBLE MINORITIES? I used Asians as a reference, but visible minority would include asians and anyone else who is not white.

boot
05-27-2011, 08:05 AM
Language barrier is no excuse. you come to Canada, learn English, You have any idea how hard it is to order a double double at Timmys? I try and get my normal coffee and end up with a chicken salad sandwich and ice tea, then try to explain thats not what I wanted and end up giving up becasue its pointless...

sigh....

Lol, what does this have to do with fishing or this thread in particular? And actually, almost everyone on this board knows EXACTLY how hard it is to get a double double at Timmys. I'm not sure if you know this, but Tim Hortons is not an exclusive club... and when I order a coffee, that's what I get.

Anyhow, if you're having difficulties at your local fast food joint, maybe you should remove your hood (http://www.vermonthistory.org/freedom_and_unity/images/artifacts/ci_hood_tn.png), because it could be affecting your enunciation.

boot
05-27-2011, 08:12 AM
I think the real point here is that people are calling R.A.P. and reporting people based on the colour of their skin rather than on any other tangible evidence.

As expressed by many on this board, the overwhelming consensus is that most Asians are poachers. So of course, if you see an Asian on the water, it's safe to assume they must be poaching and thus we should put in a call to R.A.P.

Alberta.... what a friendly place.

+1

Crossfire
05-27-2011, 09:22 AM
Really? Did you read the part about the false reports being made towards VISIBLE MINORITIES? I used Asians as a reference, but visible minority would include asians and anyone else who is not white.

Everyone just needs to make sure we are not waisting the conservation officers time by reporting someone who infact is following no matter what nationality they are

Photoplex
05-27-2011, 09:36 AM
The only times that I have ever seen "poaching" the "perps and un-subs" were white guys about 25-30 years old. I may have talked to other anglers who had done something wrong that I did not observe, but I am not a nosey person. That said, one fellow I am referring to had just landed a 5 lb bull trout that he slung in a bag. When I hollered at him from my boat that bulls are a protected species, he hauled four more out of (Upper Kananaskis) lake on a chain stringer, displayed them to me then RAN LIKE HELL. No way I could catch him, but I can tell you this; he was white and he was a thief.

A good friend of mine was observed, charged and convicted for "molesting" fish for taking a large trout from a fish trap on Three Point Creek with his hands. White guy. Poaching.

Oddly enough, I have learned by reading this forum that if a dark skinned foreign national is practicing a particular activity there is a better than even chance a law being broken or disregarded. However, if it is a white boy (as in younger than his European-boomer parents) that is disregarding the rules, then it is named "my right" and the practice is allowable because of some sort of entitlement clause.

I wouldn't call this forum a racist crowd. No way. I would call it the "After Me You're First" crowd.

Good thing the fella that opened the door of the camper in the littering (or is that the "I haven't picked that up yet") video was a W.A.S.P. We would have to endure a lot more racism disguised as sportsmanship than we typically do, and I would have to rethink my "not racists" comment.

Free (to publish long winded stories)

Yes! x2

Lol, what does this have to do with fishing or this thread in particular? And actually, almost everyone on this board knows EXACTLY how hard it is to get a double double at Timmys. I'm not sure if you know this, but Tim Hortons is not an exclusive club... and when I order a coffee, that's what I get.

Anyhow, if you're having difficulties at your local fast food joint, maybe you should remove your hood (http://www.vermonthistory.org/freedom_and_unity/images/artifacts/ci_hood_tn.png), because it could be affecting your enunciation.

More yes! X2

commieboy
05-27-2011, 10:00 AM
Everyone just needs to make sure we are not waisting the conservation officers time by reporting someone who infact is following no matter what nationality they are

Yes, report poachers regardless of ethnicity. But to look at one's ethnicity and report them for poaching based on suspicion due to the colour of their skin? That is what I understand is happening from Dodger's (the original poster) reports of his conversation with F&W.

As stated by the original post, the fact remains that there is an obvious racial motivation with the calls being made. Dodger more or less confirmed this just a few posts up.

Report suspicious behaviour when you see it. I don't care what colour the person may be, but make damn sure that your suspicion has more evidence than their skin colour.

Sorry for the rant, folks. I get riled up with topics like this. Happy fishing to you all.

chubbdarter
05-27-2011, 10:04 AM
admin
Administrator Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 80



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thread closed... for obvious reasons.


i see one of these in the near future

Lefty-Canuck
05-27-2011, 10:14 AM
I wish someone came up with a pill for common sense..........that way threads wouldn't get derailed as often :)

Lefty

TyreeUM
05-27-2011, 10:28 AM
First I would just like to point out that I do NOT live in Alberta, which could be the main issue in my understanding. I have lived a lot of places (Maine, Michigan, New York, South Carolina, Massachusetts, Saskatchewan) and I have never experienced the attitudes that are commonly expressed on this board. It is kind of sad that the first thing that comes to a lot of people minds while out fishing is to scope out other people in the area and make sure they are following the regulations. As I said before, my ignorance to your situation in Alberta must play a large role in my lack of understanding, but is poaching as prevalent as it appears from the threads on this forum?

dodger
05-27-2011, 10:40 AM
Yes, report poachers regardless of ethnicity. But to look at one's ethnicity and report them for poaching based on suspicion due to the colour of their skin? That is what I understand is happening from Dodger's (the original poster) reports of his conversation with F&W.

As stated by the original post, the fact remains that there is an obvious racial motivation with the calls being made. Dodger more or less confirmed this just a few posts up.

Report suspicious behaviour when you see it. I don't care what colour the person may be, but make damn sure that your suspicion has more evidence than their skin colour.

Sorry for the rant, folks. I get riled up with topics like this. Happy fishing to you all.



YES, REPORT A POACHER, not a skin color. And just be confident your not sending a F&W officer out on a useless call.

Dodger.

dragon
05-27-2011, 10:58 AM
If your not worried about being verbally/physically attacked it might be worth people getting a little closer, talking to the "poachers" see whats actully going on. (instead of seeing something from a distance and calling..) Could save F&W a lot of time/money.


Don't get too close... then your considered a creep

bowness
05-27-2011, 08:32 PM
Coming from countries that believe exploiting resources to the point of no return is common and also not having an ability to read english could be factors related to concerns Albertans have about certain demographs and their use and/or misuse of the resource. I am not supportive or accepting of Alberta citizens not being informed about the rules, I just think we may need to be somewhat accomodating or supportive and educating to people who have some difficulty with understanding the complex scope of regulations associated with our provincial regulations. Lets face it I am a mother tongue english speaker who has grown up fishing and hunting in Alberta and BC but I still get confused... From some of the threads I read many hard core guys do to.

Nait Hadya
09-20-2011, 11:52 AM
YES, REPORT A POACHER, not a skin color. And just be confident your not sending a F&W officer out on a useless call.

Dodger.

seen it before where a distraction call(s) is place to enable the offender to get the deed done and safely transported out of the area. probably so frequently that they have to treat the legit calls as decoys as well.

theking
09-20-2011, 12:33 PM
Haha my fav comment was the timmies one, happens to me all the time in taber, and another bad group for poaching is a certain group of white ppl for fishing and hunting, hell ive had them break in to my trailer and steal 3 rods and my generator.

RavYak
09-20-2011, 02:21 PM
If you see someone using barbed hooks or using bait where they aren't supposed to etc don't waste everyone's time and call RAP.

Walk up to the person, ask them if they realized what they were doing is wrong and tell them that the fine is 200-250 for not following those rules if they are caught. 95% of the people will thank you and change what they are doing because they honestly didn't know they were in the wrong. I mean what kind of retarded stores would sell hooks you can't even legally use...

The only time I would consider calling RAP is if I saw someone seriously poaching(keeping way over the limit) or if I brought the above up to someone and they acted like a total dick about it(yet to happen).

Sure people should be expected to know all the rules but that usually isn't the case and until F&W smartens up with the advertisement catalog(oops I mean regs...) there will always be people that miss tidbits of information and or don't even bother to look for the small things(most just look at general limits and lake restrictions and will miss a lot of needed info).


First I would just like to point out that I do NOT live in Alberta, which could be the main issue in my understanding. I have lived a lot of places (Maine, Michigan, New York, South Carolina, Massachusetts, Saskatchewan) and I have never experienced the attitudes that are commonly expressed on this board. It is kind of sad that the first thing that comes to a lot of people minds while out fishing is to scope out other people in the area and make sure they are following the regulations. As I said before, my ignorance to your situation in Alberta must play a large role in my lack of understanding, but is poaching as prevalent as it appears from the threads on this forum?

Coming from Sask I know what you are talking about and honestly it is because of the regulations. The regs here are crap, you get a page of info followed by 2 pages of advertisements and there are little things hidden all throughout this way. I find looking through the regs extremely annoying and luckily know I actually know where everything is although I had to have a few things pointed out to me that I had missed(like each individual zone having its own general limits different then the "general limits"...). The sask regs are much much better, no advertisements and simpler even though they state pretty much the same things.

I will never understand how Alberta can treat a government regulation book as advertisement, imagine if OH&S started putting adds for safety companies all throughout their regulations...

Stinky Buffalo
09-20-2011, 03:08 PM
I will never understand how Alberta can treat a government regulation book as advertisement, imagine if OH&S started putting adds for safety companies all throughout their regulations...

Uh-oh... IBTL!

Okotokian
09-20-2011, 05:53 PM
I will never understand how Alberta can treat a government regulation book as advertisement, imagine if OH&S started putting adds for safety companies all throughout their regulations...

Does anyone REALLY find that the advertisements and articles make the regulations confusing? Come on.... In these tight bugetary times every dollar saved on printing regs can be used for more enforcement. I'm all for it. I'm not attributing the attitude to you, but some people who demand that there is no place for private industry in public services on philosophical grounds (ie healthcare) would rather the service be starved to death than be sullied by any taint of evil capitalism.

BeeGuy
09-20-2011, 06:51 PM
nope, if they are fishing its up to them to know and practice the rules, not us to point the rules out to them.

Of course everyone's actions are their own responsibility.

However this statement is totally useless.

Whatever happened to a sense of community?

BeeGuy
09-20-2011, 06:53 PM
i report Bob Izumi.....everytime i see his TV show

Don't forget Italo and Henry. Repeat offenders.


God Bless you, Italo.

BeeGuy
09-20-2011, 06:55 PM
Does anyone REALLY find that the advertisements and articles make the regulations confusing? Come on.... In these tight bugetary times every dollar saved on printing regs can be used for more enforcement. I'm all for it. I'm not attributing the attitude to you, but some people who demand that there is no place for private industry in public services on philosophical grounds (ie healthcare) would rather the service be starved to death than be sullied by any taint of evil capitalism.

The reg's manual is a gong show.

BeeGuy
09-20-2011, 06:55 PM
Oh no, this is a zombie thread!!

WayneChristie
09-20-2011, 06:59 PM
Of course everyone's actions are their own responsibility.

However this statement is totally useless.

Whatever happened to a sense of community?

how is that statement useless? its a simple stating of the facts, if you fish you must know and follow the regs, its the law.

bloopbloob
09-20-2011, 07:13 PM
Without excuse, it is the persons responsibility to know the rules if they go fishing. Plain and simple. Not being able to read the regs regardless of ethnicity is not an excuse. There are born Canadians that can't read. Doesn't matter. Read the regs. Follow them. Doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out what you can or can't do legally for specific water bodies. If you're not gonna read up on the waters you fish, be ready to be reported or caught. That simple.