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View Full Version : Can You ID this PH?


DarkAisling
06-18-2011, 08:07 AM
I'm really hoping I'll be told that this is the Mauser action and a model 1200, as I'm contemplating purchasing a Boyds stock for this (http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/ROSS-FT-LARGE-RING-MAUSER-p/500-424-ft.htm . . . but maybe not that colour). I'm totally clueless though, and help would be greatly appreciated. This was my father's back-up moose gun.

Sorry about the flash, and the dirty floor. :o Also, I wasn't sure what photos were important, so I just took a bunch.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-aHUZBLZkEyg/TfwJxGxVRvI/AAAAAAAAB7g/KpHAxm0pU0c/s720/IMG_1254.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Cfsl23n3HCE/TfwKa8DjGbI/AAAAAAAAB7w/Zev9UsI9Mwc/s720/IMG_1255.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-8b5bZSvuAmM/TfwLGODjA6I/AAAAAAAAB70/Y0_HLphX9oY/s720/IMG_1256.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qwmNLX1MAWU/TfwM5HMGuSI/AAAAAAAAB8g/f5srzqD1khI/s720/IMG_1258.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ZCoyhTd645A/TfwFHOVDz0I/AAAAAAAAB60/1R2rSxxrnss/s512/IMG_1251.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-oZ6X1N5y8iI/TfwGQHtl1hI/AAAAAAAAB7M/b7msXcn2bK8/s720/IMG_1252.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-L6x2PacyZ84/TfwHtt8SHpI/AAAAAAAAB7U/Payv1q52rig/s720/IMG_1253.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-8B2J6vYX7X0/TfwNZpdX42I/AAAAAAAAB8k/G_XvegeuZQ0/s720/IMG_1259.JPG

More photos in a moment . . . only allowed ten per post.

DarkAisling
06-18-2011, 08:09 AM
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-UDGHTa0PlkM/TfwO5BvWQ9I/AAAAAAAAB84/4vLfYtoU144/s720/IMG_1261.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-mhOnKjslveY/TfwRXGC3e4I/AAAAAAAAB9c/t-J4kf8nwuA/s720/IMG_1265.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-zAT6qLI-GWw/TfwR1TCyVtI/AAAAAAAAB9k/nvAetfsfG9Y/s720/IMG_1266.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-BrfSMBMpW0s/TfwShXc-1qI/AAAAAAAAB9s/VVtm5wkt72w/s720/IMG_1267.JPG

Thx in advance :)

rembo
06-18-2011, 08:15 AM
That looks like an 1100C

Spanish built Santa Barbara Mauser action.....most stocks for a '98 Mauser will fit with a little fiddling.

duffy4
06-18-2011, 08:19 AM
I can't answer your question but the stock on your gun look like a nice bit of lumber. Why don't you strip the finish off it, sand it and rub linseed oil into it.

Sometimes the wood will get lighter and the grain come out more. You might be very happy with a do it yourself "make over".

DarkAisling
06-18-2011, 08:39 AM
That looks like an 1100C

Spanish built Santa Barbara Mauser action.....most stocks for a '98 Mauser will fit with a little fiddling.

Thanks :) It looks like Boyds has some options that fall under their export price of $100 USD.

I can't answer your question but the stock on your gun look like a nice bit of lumber. Why don't you strip the finish off it, sand it and rub linseed oil into it.

Sometimes the wood will get lighter and the grain come out more. You might be very happy with a do it yourself "make over".

I would love to do that, but a knowledgable AOFer who has seen me shoulder a gun (very awkwardly) has advised me that a standard PH stock will not work well for me. He foresees one of two things happening, both of which are dangerous (one of which would leave a scar).

I was able to shoulder one of his guns, which has a Boyds thumbhole stock on it. He and his lovely wife both agreed that the Boyds stock really improved things for me (though there was still lots of room left for improvement).

I would still probably refinish the original stock, but keep it tucked away for the day when my form has improved enough to utilize it.

catnthehat
06-18-2011, 08:56 AM
The PH rifles built on the Santa Barbara actions are great guns.
Some off them have the enicest bluing I have ever seen on a production gun.
I would get your stock measurements taken and see if the factory stock can be adjusted.
That being sais, Boyd's stock ARE nice!:sHa_shakeshout:
Cat

DarkAisling
06-18-2011, 09:48 AM
Forgot to measure the barrel, but that would have helped, wouldn't it?

My copy of the 2009 Standard Catalog of Firearms lists the model 1100 (apparently they were first manufactured in 1985), but it doesn't indicate any styles of the 1100. What does the "C" denote?

From what I understand the action is a commercial action, and not mil surplus, right?

catnthehat
06-18-2011, 10:23 AM
Forgot to measure the barrel, but that would have helped, wouldn't it?

My copy of the 2009 Standard Catalog of Firearms lists the model 1100 (apparently they were first manufactured in 1985), but it doesn't indicate any styles of the 1100. What does the "C" denote?

From what I understand the action is a commercial action, and not mil surplus, right?
"C" denotes "clip" type magazine.
Cat

wwbirds
06-18-2011, 11:16 AM
Since I have the same or a very similar rifle in 270 for the last 35 years I am going to go out on a limb and suggest it is a 1200 C.
I am with the refinish crowd for you wil feel more recoil from a lighter synthetic stock and I am not a fan of wrapping the pistol grip with the thumb as the thumbholes teach you to do. Thumb should be used to offset trigger squeeze straight along tang of rifle.
Does Boyds make pink stocks??? hehehehe

DarkAisling
06-18-2011, 11:29 AM
Since I have the same or a very similar rifle in 270 for the last 35 years I am going to go out on a limb and suggest it is a 1200 C.
I am with the refinish crowd for you wil feel more recoil from a lighter synthetic stock and I am not a fan of wrapping the pistol grip with the thumb as the thumbholes teach you to do. Thumb should be used to offset trigger squeeze straight along tang of rifle.
Does Boyds make pink stocks??? hehehehe

I measured the barrel, and it is approx. 24" from end of muzzle to bolt face. That makes the barrel too long for it to be an 1100. Should have measured it before I posted the photos. Sorry!

They don't have them in pink . . . but they've got them in purple :D

Edit: So, if the barrel is too long to be an 1100, it could very well be a 1200.

220swifty
06-18-2011, 02:04 PM
Could you please tell me what the part no. reads on that mag? I have a buddy who has been looking long and hard for the exact same mag, and if I have the part number for it, it might be easier to track down.

DarkAisling
06-18-2011, 06:46 PM
Could you please tell me what the part no. reads on that mag? I have a buddy who has been looking long and hard for the exact same mag, and if I have the part number for it, it might be easier to track down.

The complete text from the mag is as follows:

PARKER-HALE ENGLAND
PART No. 98/223
CAL 30/06 & 270

Edit: found a manual and parts listing here:
http://thehunterslife.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14363

sycosean
06-18-2011, 08:13 PM
Hi Darkaisling,

Just a suggestion for when you rifinish the original stock. Try using Tung oil instead of linseed oil. I foumd that it really brings out the grain of the wood and you can really change the tone by just adding # of coats of oil. Let me know how you make out.

SycoSean

whitetailfanatic
06-19-2011, 08:19 AM
This does look very similar to an old Parker Hale 1200C (Super Clip) 30-06 I currently possess however lacks the rosewood (I think) tip on the stock forend.

I have been trying for the last year to locate a drop in fit aftermarket synthetic or wood stock for the 1200C with no success. All stock manufacturers say a stock for a Large Ring Mauser will work however because the 1200C utilizes a removable magazine and not a hinged floor plate, extensive inletting would be required.

duceman
06-19-2011, 08:59 AM
hey shelley, beware the boyd's stocks for mauser actions. i just finished putting one together for a short action parker hale the same as yours. we have about 9 hours into it to finish the inletting, and bedding it.
i have done several savage guns with boyd's stock with very little work at all, but this mauser was brutal for a 'finished' stock.
sounds to me like this gun is never going to leave your possession, so i would recommend having the stock cut to fit and a good recoil pad fit to your liking.
then maybe some slightly reduced loads to get you going, the 30-06 is super versatile and can be tailored to take any game you decide to hunt, lee

wwbirds
06-19-2011, 10:19 AM
Yes my 1200 has the rosewood pistol grip cap as well as the forearm block of rosewood but I believe the shape of the forestock is the same as mine so it may only be the 1200 C and not the Custom Deluxe.

If you take it down to bare wood and build it up with a product called Euro Oil (contains tung oil) from DemBart you will get a factory new finish. Do the sanding by hand to remove finish as the Brits were notoroious for using alcanet root to stain and give a nice color differential to stocks. Commercial strippers will remove the patina in wood as well as bleach colors pretty much to a monotone "blah".
I believe a company in the US still makes replacement stocks for mauser action (PH) but forget the name of the custom maker but they are beautiful and expensive ($400-$800 +) as I have one.

DarkAisling
06-19-2011, 11:24 AM
I'm just not liking a lot of what I'm learning here, guys. I need to do some thinking about this. It is true that this rifle won't be going anywhere, until it is passed on to one of my sons. My options are to a) learn how to work with it, b) make it work, or c) lock it away for one of my boys.

Option "b" is what I'm leaning towards. I'm hesitant to shorten the original stock, as my eldest boy is at least three inches taller than me. My budget is excessively generous, so to spend hundreds on a stock is not out of the question: especially for something that won't require a bunch of screwing around (which I am not inclined to do). Accurate Innovations stocks?

wwbirds
06-19-2011, 11:33 AM
The stock on it is just fine! sand it down to bare wood and build finish back up with Dembart Euro oil (I have lots for my checkering) or you can contact Walt McVey at Dembart to send you some as once tried you wil use it in future for other stocks.
Custom stocks for PH may stil be available from Fajen but I have not checked for a while. The one I got is absolutely beautiful in Californa Claro walnut but I am still going to checker it one day when I have a couple months of free time on the funny farm.

Here is my 41 year old PH Custom Deluxe in 270 with the Fajen replacement stock from 2001 which I have never finished.
http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/ww349/wwbirds/Fajen/DSC_0076.jpg

During checkering I will use about 3 more coats of Euro oil to harden off the carved diamonds so this preliminary stock only has about 4 coats of Euro on it and you can already see what kind of depth and contrast is going to come out of an $800. blank of claro walnut.
http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/ww349/wwbirds/Fajen/DSC_0077.jpg

http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/ww349/wwbirds/Fajen/DSC_0078.jpg

http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/ww349/wwbirds/Fajen/DSC_0079.jpg

DarkAisling
06-19-2011, 11:57 AM
The stock on it is just fine! sand it down to bare wood and build finish back up with Dembart Euro oil (I have lots for my checkering) or you can contact Walt McVey at Dembart to send you some as once tried you wil use it in future for other stocks.
Custom stocks for PH may stil be available from Fajen but I have not checked for a while. The one I got is absolutely beautiful in Californa Claro walnut but I am still going to checker it one day when I have a couple months of free time on the funny farm.

I didn't say there is anything wrong with the stock on it. The stock is just fine, and can be prettied up quite nicely. I will absolutely hand sand it and oil it (thank you for the info about stripping agents, as that was my original plan).

The issue at hand is trying to determine how I am most comfortable going about improving the way the rifle and I fit together. I am more comfortable with the idea of replacing the stock than shortening it at present: especially since the original stock seems to be a nice fit for #1 son (but he's not getting it yet).

wwbirds
06-19-2011, 12:07 PM
You have a very old thin and hard brittle recoil pad which needs replacing. this may lengthen the pull for your son but may also make it too long for you.
Guess you have to deal with which is priority right now and worry about fit to son later.
rob

DarkAisling
06-19-2011, 12:12 PM
That is gorgeous, Rob! Thanks for sharing the photos. :)

Pinhead
06-19-2011, 09:35 PM
Was reading this thread as I myself have problems shouldering and holding a stock since I have arthritis that has seized up my wrists and R elbow and neck. I have a hard time getting and keeping my cheekbone on the stock and then get close enough to the scope to see through it. I can not hold on to a standard pistol grip stock and have turned to thumbhole stocks, 2 from Boyd's and one from T/C (Pro Hunter Encore).

Why don't you get the original stock adjusted and cut for you now. This still leaves many options down the road. Once your sons are ready it could easily be lengthened with a recoil pad. And changed back for a smaller son/daughter. And if worst comes to worst then you can buy a new stock for a larger son. This way the gun is now useful to the whole family.

Whatever you decide, please don't feel pushed into anything, these are just options.

Good Luck

Dan

DarkAisling
07-01-2011, 04:08 PM
Well, now I know for sure.

She's an early to mid seventies 1200 C. She was originally sold by Sears, and her ticket price was $100.

The "official" ID comes from Rick at Alberta Tactical, where she is undergoing some work. He estimates her value to be between $400 and $600 dollars.

wwbirds offered to sand down the stock for me. I dismantled the gun and started steaming out the stock. The steaming made some cracks noticeable.

Rick will be repairing the stock. He'll also be adjusting the trigger, cutting down the stock for me, installing a mercury recoil reducer, and a new recoil pad.

Then she'll be sanded down and oiled. :)