This is what is damaging wild fish habitat in Alberta

[BGSH]

pointless going in and out of a river in a trouck back and forth ruines spawning habitat for wild fish what a shame.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HzZLbM5BoE

[FallAirFever]

What a dip stick! Any chance someone here can zoom in on that plate and maybe we can forward that on srd?

[GunnerySgtJackson]

Not sure about Alberta but in other provinces Fisheries and Oceans/Environment would be laying charges. My computer cannot zoom in enough on the plates but darn close.

[cody c]

yup, and its whats shutting down access to the wheelers that do go wheeling responsibly.

Alot of off-road clubs are renaming their selves trail stewardships or societies. Kind of like ducks unlimited isnt called the duck hunters society.

Some of the local clubs in calgary are trying their hand at reforestation of areas that are sensitive to errosion by off roaders, as well as building bridges over fish bearing streams, to protect species like the west slope cut-throat.

Once wheelers figure out how they effect the environment, you realize there is less impact on trails that are high and dry (like rocky hills where the scenery is better) than in muddy holes and creeks where you cause errosion and damage to spawning beds.

:thinking-006:

[FishingMOM]

Dont chase this one into deleting his video until someone has it saved and sent to officials.!!!

Check also he has a hunting video and a RANGE shoot video.
Someone might recognize the guy.
It appears that the director of the video is the same person as the driver/hunter/shooter which is clearly identified as wagar khan at the end of the video.

[New Hunter Okotoks]

Anybody know how to save the video?

[pottymouth]

Might that be his name on some of the other video's he's posted?

[walking buffalo]

Dont chase this one into deleting his video until someone has it saved and sent to officials.!!!

Ditto.

Shawn, Did you pass the link on to SRD BEFORE posting it here?



We've seen several videos of potential poaching be deleted before SRD can view them because of links being posted here.

There are times to keep quiet. Inform SRD and let them deal with potential offences and charges. Don't post the vid here.

My suggestion.... If you left a comment on youtube, remove it.

Email the link to SRD.

Delete this thread.

[FishBrain]

I can get in close but it just gets blurry. His name is on the video or his main page if you want to report him. Maybe his friend "anavidhunter" who is a videographer shot the video. Either way, I think there is enough infor on his youtube to get him caught.
Sad to say he calls himself a hunter also.

[pickrel pat]

alot of these people are unaware they are ruining habitat or breaking the law. law books are 6 inches thick and unless its posted on a sign, they see some water and think "that would be fun to play in..." they may not be hunter/fishermen types and do not know they are ruining spawn habitat. that being said, i too hate to see that. these people are just ignorant to what they are actually doing. looks like a river crossing with a trail on both sides, maybe the govt should put up no crossing signs at high traffic river crossings like these? i mean....we are expected to read fishing regs and understand them.(not much to read and know in the fishing regs), but can we expect everyone to know and understand a 6 inch thick law book?

[FishingMOM]

Ditto.
Shawn, Did you pass the link on to SRD BEFORE posting it here?
We've seen several videos of potential poaching be deleted before SRD can view them because of links being posted here.
There are times to keep quiet. Inform SRD and let them deal with potential offences and charges. Don't post the vid here.
My suggestion.... If you left a comment on youtube, remove it.
Email the link to SRD.
Delete this thread.
Unfortunately our boys already left comments for this guy.
None of them friendly.


I think I figured out how to download these videos.
So if that is the case it will be easy to send info to SRD

[pickrel pat]

btw,... like i said.... i dont condone this.... just sayin we need signs at crossings like this..... not everyone is educated on stream habitat.

[sheephunter]

Not to make light of things but it looks to me like he's crossing on a pretty well used trail. I'm sure it's been crossed hundres of times there. There are crossings like this on virtually every river on the east slopes. I'm not sure what law he actually broke but then again there may be something I'm not aware of.

[BGSH]

All ready sent the video to S.R.D, just hope they can save it and view it, obviously this is damaging to any river in the eastern alberta slope streams that are holding all out wild fish, and this spot where this persons were tareing up the river looks like a nice decent spot for wildfish spawning habitat. hopefully someone can identify him and report it in and s.r.d can have a chat and see what needs to be done.

[FishingMOM]

Figured out how to save any YOUTUBE video.
So even if he deletes it I have it on my hard drive in the office.

[pickrel pat]

Not to make light of things but it looks to me like he's crossing on a pretty well used trail. I'm sure it's been crossed hundres of times there. There are crossings like this on virtually every river on the east slopes. I'm not sure what law he actually broke but then again there may be something I'm not aware of.you see? even sheephunter is unaware of laws being broke.....some of the comments left for this guy on youtube are unappropriate to say the least. if its against the law, we need to be educated about it.

[BGSH]

you should not go back and forth back and forth, and do dhounuts in the river, its common sense. Its also bad for the engine chassie not to mention the river habitat, usuually there are small bridges you can cross at crossing points, you can read about it.

[sheephunter]

you see? even sheephunter is unaware of laws being broke.....some of the comments left for this guy on youtube are unappropriate to say the least. if its against the law, we need to be educated about it.

I'm not an off roader so I very well could be unaware of a law that exists but I guarantee there are thousands of well used crossings like this one in the eastern slopes. I'm not condoning what he's doing but it's pretty common and I was just curious is it really illegal?

You could see this exact thing happen a thousand times on a weekend in the Ghost or Waipourous.

[pickrel pat]

im curious too.

[rens27]

If he had gone straight through from road to road and kept on going then not a big deal. It appears to be a well used ford in the river. Instead he decided to drive around in the river. When people see this they think it is either a horrible wrong and all off roaders must be like this guy. Or they think it is okay and cool to behave the same way as this guy. By making negative comments on his video he sees that what he has done is not right plus other people learn that his behavior is wrong.

[Albertadiver]

I believe a person is allowed to ford a river to get across, but not 'horse around' when doing so.

I have no legal backing for that, just my current understanding.

[haywarje]

All kinds of names and info if you click on his other 17 videos on the top. Maybe this guy is just "ignorant" like we've seen before? :sign0161:

Some funny comments on Youtube though. Ugly green sweater and brutal music. Made me laugh!

[pickrel pat]

just curious... any of you zooming in on licence plates and sending videos to SRD know if this is illegal? lol!

[huntinstuff]

just curious... any of you zooming in on licence plates and sending videos to SRD know if this is illegal? lol!

Yup. Totally legal. No expectation of privacy

[pickrel pat]

Yup. Totally legal. No expectation of privacy

I meant is it illegal to cross the river. lol.

[rens27]

I just spoke with a Conservation Officer that happened to be in my shop. She says it is legal to cross the river until you stray from the most direct line across or you are leaving substances like oil or gas in the water. So this guy was illegal as soon as he started driving paralell to the bank of the river. I showed her the video and she will look into it.

[rammer]

Now that the fish cops have 3000 emails and 500 voice-mails to go through related to a guy driving accross a stream, can probably leave the hunt up to them and shut down the Nancy Drew club for the day.

If anyone gets bored start calling the police everytime you see some kid smoking a joint to use up all of the police resources too.

I'm definately against what the guy is doing and he is a complete idoit, but I think there are bigger fish to fry IMHO.

[BGSH]

yea looks illegal driving back and forth around like an idiiot, thought he could drive straight, to bad Alberta cannot afford to build small bridges over these stream passings, most streams i come accross around the trunk road have small bridges over them, so this does not surprise me that it is legal but i think it should be illegal as these streams are so delicate.

[pickrel pat]

watched it again. still didnt see him doin donuts or driveing parrelel to the bank. seen him swerve out 10-15 feet. possibly to avoid large rocks? is there another video of him im missing? wow!

[rens27]

When he swerved out she considered it to be a paralell route. My understanding is it is okay so long as you get in and get out before doing too much damage. As soon as he starts taking alternate routes while crossing he is heading into illegal waters (pun intended).

[Jack&7]

I am not 100% sure on this...but I think Apple users have a prog that can save Youtube videos with no hassle. PC users cannot do it quite so easily (but it still can be done).

Any Apple users out there?

[jimbo1]

that guys an absolute moron! what a pri@k i hope to god that he gets reported if what hes doing isnt illegal it sure should be!

[FishingMOM]

I believe this is more destructive.
http://www.youtube.com/user/jasonshave#p/u/0/pnbXGsOfyn8

[1899b]

I am not 100% sure on this...but I think Apple users have a prog that can save Youtube videos with no hassle. PC users cannot do it quite so easily (but it still can be done).

Any Apple users out there?

Download the new Real Player. its called Real Player Plus. This will allow you to download and save any vid.

[jimbo1]

I believe this is more destructive.
http://www.youtube.com/user/jasonshave#p/u/0/pnbXGsOfyn8

yep my only hope is that the quad overturns as they are crossing deep water and they are trapped|! seroiusly these people have no respect for the outdoors at all, ps im not being cute i really do hope that happens to these morons

[Albertadiver]

This thread is useless without Duffy.

[jim summit]

My,My how exciting.::argue2:

[bb356]

Lame toyota commercial with crappy tunes ?

[TBark]

Likely Kahns first time having his truck off the pavement.
Dig his background music.
Get'em, report 'em you say ?
Not sure there's anything illegal there, just stupid.


TBark

[deepfried]

*******

[Nait Hadya]

Not to make light of things but it looks to me like he's crossing on a pretty well used trail. I'm sure it's been crossed hundres of times there. There are crossings like this on virtually every river on the east slopes. I'm not sure what law he actually broke but then again there may be something I'm not aware of.


more than a hundred crossings there for sure. it is possible he entered the river on an angle to avoid the current,seems to know what he's doing. there are suckers that spawn in that river but they don't spawn there,neither do the pike. as for trout or any other fish,spawning occurs much further upstream and in the smaller tribs. if you are truely concerned about destruction of spawning beds you should have a closer look at the logging practices further upstream.

the direct route across that particular crossing may be obstructed by remnants of an old underwater bridge,a cordroy bridge that was placed there when the crossing was put in, many years ago. rage on you eco freaks LOL.....go git 'im.

[FishingMOM]

I think whom ever posted this comment on the guys Youtube is looking for a lot of problems. Sure hope it is sarcasm.


Hey Hodgy,there's a forum of outdoorsman watching your video.Some think that its OK to drive back and forth thru pristine waters and dont see a problem.They probably do more more sheep hunting than fishing.So do me a favor and drive up as high into the alpine as you can get in 4LO and tear it up man!! If you see little trees and flowers and stuff,just mow them down.While your up there do an oil change and drain your diffs. You dont need a drain pan either just right onto the ground buddy!

3offtlevinson

[sheephunter]

I think whom ever posted this comment on the guys Youtube is looking for a lot of problems. Sure hope it is sarcasm.

Good to see his grammar is right on par with his reading comprehension. LOL

[uglyelk]

When you folks take a crap you flush it in the water no?

What a jerk driving a cross a river on a trail that crosses the river...he is the singular cause of fish habitat issues!

I've like to say more but it's time to launch another log!


What was that verse about casting the first stone?

When your crap no longer goes in the water start pointing the finger at others.

Hipocates R Us the new eco club! :sHa_sarcasticlol:

[870wing]

I totally agree with you uglyelk!! There is an obvious crossing at that spot in the river. He crossed it once with the camera man outside and once with him inside. BFD. I didn't notice any donuts in the river??
The video of the quadding; the only thing I see wrong is one guy went in the lake. Otherwise they stuck to the 50 - 75 year old use to be truck trail. they didn't make any other trails.
C'mon you guys. Do you think we should make all of western Alberta a park???? Pretty soon the trails will be closed, then random camping, then the roads up the valleys.

Really, what are the guys in the video's hurting???

[pikergolf]

I believe this is more destructive.
http://www.youtube.com/user/jasonshave#p/u/0/pnbXGsOfyn8

Although I have never seen first hand the destruction that was done with quads, and I know it's not everybody, I imagined what it was like. Sadly my imagination is not that strong, Hocky crap on a stick, that is insane, that trail will be out of service for a while. Maybe I'm to old, I just don't get the appeal of that, and I've done some things in my youth I'm not proud of. When I was young all us squares went out to the bush for piece and quite, now it just seems like the party moved from the house to the street to the great outdoors. And it has all the boy toys driving it. Camping used to be a nice quite back to nature affair, now it's bring all the trappings of the city to the mountains. oh well summer weekends in town are quit.
Rant over, Flame away I'm going to bed. I'll laugh about it in the morning

[chubbdarter]

wow some interesting youtube comments

[FishingMOM]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UO9SedalnWE&NR=1&feature=fvwp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMynO2Nd1Ts&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrlVzd9-D2o&NR=1


I dont understand the blatant destruction of the wilderness.
We quadded on grandpa's farm. But we knew not to hit the fields or streams. You could guarantee a red @$$ if you destroyed the land. So we stuck to the driveway and trails that we were permitted on. If there was water/mud you were to stay out of it, so as to not damage the property

[hillbillyreefer]

Can anyone actually site the laws this person is breaking? I'd appreciate knowing what laws are beirng broken. I've seen lots of quads drive across shallow stream crossings. Please tell inform us what laws are being broken, so the responsible parties can be brought to justice.

[deanmc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UO9SedalnWE&NR=1&feature=fvwp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMynO2Nd1Ts&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrlVzd9-D2o&NR=1


I dont understand the blatant destruction of the wilderness.
We quadded on grandpa's farm. But we knew not to hit the fields or streams. You could guarantee a red @$$ if you destroyed the land. So we stuck to the driveway and trails that we were permitted on. If there was water/mud you were to stay out of it, so as to not damage the property

You must be quite young. My grandparents never even considered that we were having an impact on the planet. I am pretty sure they never took a drop of used oil to a recycler. They certainly drove their tractors through creeks. and actually straightened a few out so they could farm alongside them more easily.

[Sportsman]

I don't see the problem here. That dudes in a stock 2008 Toyota Tundra crossing a creek on a well used trail, I don't think hes the type of guy out there ruining fish habitat on purpose. Someone logged out that road way before he decided to cross it. There are far worse people out there causing way more damage in lifted and customized trucks that could drive right down that river. Better people keep crossing there than creating new trails every 100 feet. Just my 2 cents....

[horsetrader]

yep my only hope is that the quad overturns as they are crossing deep water and they are trapped|! seroiusly these people have no respect for the outdoors at all, ps im not being cute i really do hope that happens to these morons

How do you know this is not a section of private land that is used for this specific reason if you look they are water holes not water crossings so nothing is being hurt but his own land. We had a lot back home we did the same thing in to the harm of no one.

[kinuseo]

He thinks he's off roading hahahaha, looks like a good road to me.
Okay, i'll say it, foriegners in canada living the great canadian redneck dream.
Well, I gotta laugh, off the lot rice burner traveling a logging road, what a hoot.
Several things jump out at me, first that (traditional music) (tongue in cheek) has never been heard in that area and has to go.
Second, the diffs on that truck were hot when he went in the water, the breather tube was definitly under water, so when the diffs do a quick cool down, they just sucked in a bunch of water, milky oil I;d say.
Third, what a quiet life the boy must lead if he thought that was news worthy.
Bet his buddys back home could show some pretty tense movies that would blow him right out of the water.
Anyhow, I got to shake my head and laugh at the idiot.
And for all those on here who thought it was a crime, come on, industry does a thousand times worse on a daily basis, with all the rain this year there will be all kinds of contaminites flooding into the river systems, most fish and their eggs will be all washed back intothe lakes by now, mother nature just cleaned up everywhere this year.
My twoonie's worth anyway......................

[HunterDave]

I used to cross three streams a little smaller than that where I hunted in Ontario. You had to in order to get to the other side. When I hear Nordeeg it just doesn't seem like the right thing to do though. I don't know, I'll figure it out I guess. :scared:

[jimbo1]

How do you know this is not a section of private land that is used for this specific reason if you look they are water holes not water crossings so nothing is being hurt but his own land. We had a lot back home we did the same thing in to the harm of no one.

youre right it could be his own land but it probably isnt, its just not my idea of fun to destry and mess up the outdoors in the name of "FUN" sorry not my cup of tea i think people should have more respect be that on private land or public

[New Hunter Okotoks]

I don't know if this guy is breaking laws but I would be intersted to find out myself if he is. I would be alright with it if he drove through once because he needed to get across. It is a well used trail,I agree with that. But to drive through multiple times and vear off the straight line across so that he could get his truck into deeper water for the camera is not OK to me. For the guys who think that it's no big deal for him to drive around in a river like that because he's not breaking any laws; I have a few questions. What if he was spinning the tires a little bit,still OK? What if he had really aggressive tires and was spinning them;still OK? What if he was driving a '79 GMC with 44inch TSL Super Swampers and 600HP and doing rooster tails through it a dozen times;still Okay since he's not breaking any laws?

The point is not to play around in streams and rivers like this,which is obviously what he was doing or he would not have filmed it. Multiple crossings does not go along with the "Tread Lightly" theme.

[horsetrader]

youre right it could be his own land but it probably isnt, its just not my idea of fun to destry and mess up the outdoors in the name of "FUN" sorry not my cup of tea i think people should have more respect be that on private land or public

were do you see them destroying the land the land is still there the waterholes are still there you probable destroyed more more outdoors with the house you live in.

[pickrel pat]

hes the devil!!!!!!

[chubbdarter]

So is there actual laws he broke?

[Scotty P.]

So is there actual laws he broke?

X2. The video is gone now but I still don't know if he actually broke any laws? Anyone?

[sheephunter]

X2. The video is gone now but I still don't know if he actually broke any laws? Anyone?

Poor judgement no doubt but I'd be surprised if SRD pursues anything. Guessing he wasn't the first guy to cross there.....or the last.

[Scotty P.]

Poor judgement no doubt but I'd be surprised if SRD pursues anything. Guessing he wasn't the first guy to cross there.....or the last.

That's what I'm thinkin' too. It isn't the smartest thing to do but I can't see it being a hangin' offense. Especially when I think about how many quads are driven up and down rivers and creeks each weekend.

[sheephunter]

That's what I'm thinkin' too. It isn't the smartest thing to do but I can't see it being a hangin' offense. Especially when I think about how many quads are driven up and down rivers and creeks each weekend.

Yup, if they are going to charge that guy they could fill their retirement fund out at the Ghost and Waiporous this weekend.

[winger7mm]

I know alot of you guys are saying hes bad, your right. cross once now and once on your way home. its a tread lightly type thing. everyone in the bush needs to be respectful, im an off roader and I keep respect. But like I said you know tons of people leave there garbage out in the woods, I dont know how many large bags and empty contianers I find out in the bush when Im hunting or wheeling. It makes a guy sick knowing how easy it is to be respectful and taking care of the land we use. Im angry knowing that now-a-days how many trails, random camp roads, even roads in general that are shut down due to garbage, and damage. personaly I know a small group of people that used to go out and cut down as many trees as they could with a chainsaw while they were partying, key word used to, they were reported, I cant remember the fines but they did catch $h!t for it.

[Nait Hadya]

tread lightly,haha. float the raven river and you will see numerous crossing that cattle use on a regular basis. you will also find crossing that are used by farm equipment on a regular basis. then wade the river and see how deep the silt is.

[pattycr125]

it's just simple respect for the environment. nobody needs all the taddle tales that seem to be on here, just let them know what they are doing is wrong and why it is wrong, and after that if they continue to do it they are just jack asses. maybe the guy had no idea and was just having fun, we've all been guilty of that i'm sure.

[Christofficer]

Yeah, I wonder how many people complaining about the destruction of wilderness also work for the oil industry. Hmmm.....


I still hate ATVer's, regardless. Just as much as I hate jet boaters and rafters. Screw em all.

[deanmc]

Yeah, I wonder how many people complaining about the destruction of wilderness also work for the oil industry in this thread. Hmmm.....


I still hate ATVer's, regardless. Just as much as I hate jet boaters and rafters. Screw em all.

Or buy items that are manufactured in China because they are so much cheaper to make in a country with almost no environmental protections.

[pattycr125]

Or buy items that are manufactured in China because they are so much cheaper to make in a country with almost no environmental protections.

everything is made in china now how can you avoid that? sending all the work over there was the single biggest blow to the fall of the west, which is just beginning.

[Wolf Medicine]

LMFAO... Another pointless thread. How the holier then though can get their legs goin.. Gonna push for some more legislation to keep the stupid from hurtin themselves or the environment. For A creek crossing............ Know the best way to keep any of this from ever happening???? Outlaw everyone.. Bureaucrats like that. Simple easy no need to evaluate anyone's knowledge, skill, or ethics.. Three pages of righteousness, A handful of realists pointing out the obvious... And not one single post that shows what law has been broken... Can anyone put one up?? Anything beyond hearsay?? This is A dead issue.. Unless we all should not be allowed any where near A water shed, Ever. Never know.. Might hurt ourselves.. Or put a 5 gallon pail of sand into the flowing water.. The North Saskatchewan is kinda getting clear, might be able to see the outline of A rock at ten inches below the surface, For the first time since.......... November 2010..... But I ain't gauranteein it.. Find something.... Anything to do better with your time... Am gonna go disturb the stink out of Buck lake tomorrow with a jet boat.... Am gonna call it me aerating the water for the fishes sake.. Trust me.... It helps.... :love0025::love0025::love0025::love0025: Good night kids..

WM..

[deanmc]

everything is made in china now how can you avoid that? sending all the work over there was the single biggest blow to the fall of the west, which is just beginning.

Just pointing out that in one way or another we are all living in a glass house.

[great white whaler]

looks like a crossing to me,,,as long as we stay to the crossing i am okay with that but than its okay, than the abuse starts .

[uglyelk]

I still hate ATVer's, regardless. Just as much as I hate jet boaters and rafters. Screw em all.

Screw you!

[ishootbambi]

.. Three pages of righteousness, A handful of realists pointing out the obvious... And not one single post that shows what law has been broken... Can anyone put one up?? WM..

its law alright. now whether or not the video shows this law being broken is up for debate.

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/habitat/role/141/1415/14151-eng.htm

from the link....

Section 35

Subsection 35(1) is a general prohibition of harmful alteration, disruption or destruction (HADD) of fish habitat. This means that any work or undertaking that results in HADD is a contravention of Subsection 35(1).

you can argue all you want whether or not the video shows an illegal act or not, but its pretty hard to say it isnt stooopid for so many reasons.

[Ianhntr]

The regulation falls under the Fisheries Act, harmful alteration of fish habitat, 35(1) or 36(3), escapes me at the moment. The problems are many in enforcing this. First is it fish habitat, second is it harmfully altering it. I've actually seen it argued that it was cleaning the silt from the gravel. It takes a lot of effort to prosecute these cases, and a pretty stiff expense whenit's all said and done. Most of the time these cases should fall to the very serious matters, like illegal mining or forestry operations. However, these days DFO/Environment Canada seem more controlled by big business than anything so there isn't much done.

[cody c]

found some more of these "guys"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YprtrnoWbG4&feature=plcp

thought id post here instead of starting a new one.

[Lefty-Canuck]

...morons....

Too bad when the guy is hot rodding sitting on the outside of his truck (no seatbelt of course) while driving it he doesn't hit a stump and roll....would be helpful to the area :)

LC

[Jamie Black R/T]

these "clubs" are getting bigger and more popular all the time....wont be long now till areas like that are closed for all of us.

[cody c]

these "clubs" are getting bigger and more popular all the time....wont be long now till areas like that are closed for all of us.

I am a member of a couple local clubs, and Im the one who posted the link.

You are right about these guys getting trails closed down, but there are some of us out there trying to keep them open. If SRD gets a few more big fines out to people like this it may prevent these trails from getting shut down.

Im not opposed to river crossing in a 4WD, if only limited to one location. However I am against driving up and down creeks and other spawning grounds, or spinning your tires on the way through.

Some of the lifted and large trucks are the most capable, and can get through a crossing with much less damage than a stock vehicle that cant get any traction (if the driver of the more capable vehicle knows what impact they have) But, its the folks in lifted or modded vehicles that are treated as inbecils usually, though sometimes they are. :angry3:

[Canehdianman]

...morons....

Too bad when the guy is hot rodding sitting on the outside of his truck (no seatbelt of course) while driving it he doesn't hit a stump and roll....would be helpful to the area :)

LC

+1, I watched the entire video hoping to see him go under his wheels.

[Donkey Oatey]

Didn't much care for the way some of the river crossings went but other than that looked like a heck of a lot of fun. I really hate the way the creeks and rivers are used to clean vehicles or just to splash up and down in.

It is my biggest complaint when we go riding in the west country. My BIL will rip up and down the creek to wash out the radiator in his rhino. I give him hell about the last time. I don't do it and I wait until we are back at camp where we have 100gal of water with pump and spray hose to clean out the machines. I explained about fish and silt and they finally believed me that there were fish in the small creek when I caught a few 4-7" brookies out of there.

Hopefully when we go out this summer he respects the creeks a bit more.

Heck when I was fishing guys went in the creek just below where I was fishing. Once they saw me they took off. Might have to stand in the middle of where they enter the creek and just fish the whole weekend to keep them out of there.

[rens27]

I'm with Donkey. At least they stuck to the trails and didn't go bushwhacking with their machines to get around the giant puddles.
I have had the exact same experience with my best friend. He finally bought a hand pump and some hose to get the mud out of his radiator. When we stop next to a creek it turns into a line up for the hand pump to clean the radiators. I think a couple of the other people we ride with will probably have hand pumps of their own next trip out.

[pattycr125]

0:58 nice

[Donkey Oatey]

I'm with Donkey. At least they stuck to the trails and didn't go bushwhacking with their machines to get around the giant puddles.
I have had the exact same experience with my best friend. He finally bought a hand pump and some hose to get the mud out of his radiator. When we stop next to a creek it turns into a line up for the hand pump to clean the radiators. I think a couple of the other people we ride with will probably have hand pumps of their own next trip out.

What we ended buying was a RV 12volt water pump. Sink a tupperware bin in the water with a few rocks to hold it down, hook up some hose with a garden hose sprayer and voila, can wash the radiator out just on land and let the water filter back through the rocks and grass back in the stream. Or we fill the big tank and have water for cleaning at camp. For me it works better than ripping up and down the creek.

[Masterchief]

I'm not sure what I think of this video... I've crossed creeks in my quad... sometimes it's inevitable, but when you post a video of this type of riding and are driving while hanging out of your window, it really does make them look reckless. I'm sure that the ride took several hours, but there were only a few minutes posted, all of which did not reflect a favorable image for off roaders. Stuff like this just makes all of us look bad. If you insist on being an idiot.. send the videos to your budddies... don't post it on YouTube to give a bad name for the rest of us.

[rens27]

I'm not sure what I think of this video... I've crossed creeks in my quad... sometimes it's inevitable, but when you post a video of this type of riding and are driving while hanging out of your window, it really does make them look reckless. I'm sure that the ride took several hours, but there were only a few minutes posted, all of which did not reflect a favorable image for off roaders. Stuff like this just makes all of us look bad. If you insist on being an idiot.. send the videos to your budddies... don't post it on YouTube to give a bad name for the rest of us.

The Waiporous video was disturbing. I used to offroad out there 20 years ago and it was behaviour like the stuff in that video that got the area shut down for awhile. I had heard that it was more regulated like Mclean Creek to keep the idiot level down out of there but apparently not.

[brownbomber]

yeah it only takes a few meat heads to wreck it for everybody. my community has a great atv rally every fall, but in last couple years was in danger of being shut down by landowners no longer willing to give access. i know the trail crossed me and my dad's pasture land and we were okay with it 100% as the profit was donated to charitable organizations and for the most part the riders were really good. two years ago we had people cutting fence and not going through the area where we knocked the fence down, riding off the trail, doing there best to destroy a shallow dugout in a low spot, knocking down trees etc. we almost denied access until the committee assured us that it would change, and it did but it took asking people to leave the rally and being told to not come back ever again. some people have no respect. it's all good now though.

[Jamie Black R/T]

I am a member of a couple local clubs, and Im the one who posted the link.............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................its the folks in lifted or modded vehicles that are treated as inbecils usually, though sometimes they are. :angry3:

classic case of one fool ruining it for the ones who take the time to do things properly....good on you for working on the offroaders image...somebody has to keep the damage these guys do to it in check....kinda like we do when a poacher is in the media and they label them a hunter.

Respect for others and respect for your surroundings goes a long way when using public land. How are so many of todays youth not recieving that message while growing up?? i blame microsoft and rap music equally :sHa_sarcasticlol:

[Roughneck12]

Video is gone.

[WCTHEMI]

Didn't much care for the way some of the river crossings went but other than that looked like a heck of a lot of fun. I really hate the way the creeks and rivers are used to clean vehicles or just to splash up and down in.

It is my biggest complaint when we go riding in the west country. My BIL will rip up and down the creek to wash out the radiator in his rhino. I give him hell about the last time. I don't do it and I wait until we are back at camp where we have 100gal of water with pump and spray hose to clean out the machines. I explained about fish and silt and they finally believed me that there were fish in the small creek when I caught a few 4-7" brookies out of there.

Hopefully when we go out this summer he respects the creeks a bit more.

Heck when I was fishing guys went in the creek just below where I was fishing. Once they saw me they took off. Might have to stand in the middle of where they enter the creek and just fish the whole weekend to keep them out of there.

Couldn't agree more.

[beltburner]

did no one on here in there 40s ever go 4x4ing as kids??? it was very common to see trucks driving up rivers and creeks. there is always going to be idiots wrecking stuff but i've seen the general attitude of off roaders improve alot over the years. also the srd has gotton involved in areas and changed the trails so that less impact is done to the land.just because you see someone drive through a river or rip through a mud hole doesn't mean that they are wrecking the land or rivers. go watch an active logging site and then decide what does more damage! it is way to easy for people to watch a video and then get on the computer and start complaining about stuff they have no education in.

[cody c]

did no one on here in there 40s ever go 4x4ing as kids??? it was very common to see trucks driving up rivers and creeks. there is always going to be idiots wrecking stuff but i've seen the general attitude of off roaders improve alot over the years. also the srd has gotton involved in areas and changed the trails so that less impact is done to the land.just because you see someone drive through a river or rip through a mud hole doesn't mean that they are wrecking the land or rivers. go watch an active logging site and then decide what does more damage! it is way to easy for people to watch a video and then get on the computer and start complaining about stuff they have no education in.

And whats your education in it?

Ive been through the area many times, as part of a local club we get access for documenting trail conditions and erosion to the area, we actually get permits from SRD to access it in the winter when the ground is hard and the creeks frozen over. Im also familiar with the river crossings required to get out to the falls at the north end, none of it involves blasting up creek beds, only crossing in rocky areas where you shouldnt be needing alot of wheel spin. The waiporous area is in serious risk of being shut down.

As for the mud holes I believe that is near the waiporous camp on the east side of the main road, and isnt a place where erosion is making a huge impact, that part doesnt bother me. Driving fast through shallow creek beds is another story IMO.

I actually drive a lifted cruiser of the same model that is in that video. This impacts me personally as people will see me with a reflection of how these guys display their weekends on youtube. A lot of clubs in the area work to clean up after may long, or build bridges to protect creekbeds, redirect trails to sustainable tracks, and are even working to plant trees in certain areas to keep these trails open.

The "how a poacher reflects poorly on the responsible hunting community" analogy from the last page is a good example of what it is to the off roading community.

Ill get off my soapbox now.

[Lonnie]

The regulation falls under the Fisheries Act, harmful alteration of fish habitat, 35(1) or 36(3), escapes me at the moment. The problems are many in enforcing this. First is it fish habitat, second is it harmfully altering it. I've actually seen it argued that it was cleaning the silt from the gravel. It takes a lot of effort to prosecute these cases, and a pretty stiff expense whenit's all said and done. Most of the time these cases should fall to the very serious matters, like illegal mining or forestry operations. However, these days DFO/Environment Canada seem more controlled by big business than anything so there isn't much done.

silted up gravel is useless as a spawnig ground you need good clean washed gravel for a good spawning area for trout thats why a good spring run off is important to good fish stocks while looking like an idoit out there he was probably doing more good than harm if he was not leaking gas or oil in the stream.

[BGSH]

silted up gravel is useless as a spawnig ground you need good clean washed gravel for a good spawning area for trout thats why a good spring run off is important to good fish stocks while looking like an idoit out there he was probably doing more good than harm if he was not leaking gas or oil in the stream.

Uh not really, snap out of it :thinking-006:

[Lonnie]

Uh not really, snap out of it :thinking-006:

go check what you think wuold & shuold be good spawing ground and see how clean it is a lot of gravel beds look good and fish will try and spawn there but most of there eggs will rot granted that disturbing spawning beds do kill some eggs a good cleaning does more good in the long run than leaving it go. go feel then gravel and if it feels slimmy it needs a good cleaning as it will produce a very small percentage of what it shoud you will also notice that cut throat only live in streams that have a very fast run off in the spring nice clean gravel areas dammed up streams usualy loose there cut throat population if the fast runoff is slowed down. gravel becomes stagnet.

[Ianhntr]

The regulation that would have covered this activity is the Fisheries Act. That particular section is the section on harmful alteration which the Feds are changing in their omnibus. The reading of it now chnages to where the enfocement people will be required to prove that the alteration is permanent, soooooo....where does that leave the spawning habitat. I'd say that there is no such thing as a permanent change or alteration to habitat. Next spring won't even leave a track!

[Rock Doctor]

There are a number of crossings around here where the "Exit" is anywhere from 50 to 200 yrds up or downstream from the "Entrance". Rocks/ Cliffs/ Deep Spots, ect. Lots of guys cross, including CO's ect. Doesn't seem to be a problem, but we don't see a lot of guys dicking around in there either, that's a good way to break your stuff up.

RD