2004 F150 5.4 plug change

[bigd]

Any recommendations in the Edmonton/Spruce Grove area for a non-dealership mechanic that is familiar/skilled in changing out these plugs?

Thanks in advance.

[BallCoeff.435]

Heh. You're gonna have fun with that one, dude.

Keep this in mind - it's a slow, gradual process to properly change out those plugs, requiring more time and patience than most commercial garages can afford.

You first have to dump several charges of fuel system cleaner, seafoam, etc through the engine, over a period of several weeks of driving. That's to soften up the cement-like residue that nearly welds the outside of the plugs to the inside of the ports they sit in, inside the heads. (It has little or nothing to do with the threads).

Then you have to fill the exterior plug wells with the same solvent, or carb cleaner and let sit for awhile to possibly penetrate the first little bit around the threads. Then simply just crack the threads open an eighth of a turn - no more, and let sit for several hours. That lets the solvent slowly creep down the threads as much as possible to the plug that's beyond the threads.

Then slowly, deliberately, screw the plugs back in, then out a quarter turn, then back in an eighth, then back out an eighth. Let sit for another hour with the plug wells full of solvent. Then slowly work the plugs out a little bit at a time, back in, out a little bit further, etc, until they are out.

Most garages or paid mechanics don't have time for all that bull****, and many might just try to force the plugs out with an impact wrench. Which of course will quickly snap off those weak plugs at the insulator.

Best to just get the extraction tool (either NAPA or eBay), and lots of solvent, and a new set of plugs, and the right socket with half-inch drive, and an universal joint extension, and sacrifice the better part of your church day doing the job yourself.

[deanmc]

Heh. You're gonna have fun with that one, dude.

Keep this in mind - it's a slow, gradual process to properly change out those plugs, requiring more time and patience than most commercial garages can afford.

You first have to dump several charges of fuel system cleaner, seafoam, etc through the engine, over a period of several weeks of driving. That's to soften up the cement-like residue that nearly welds the outside of the plugs to the inside of the ports they sit in, inside the heads. (It has little or nothing to do with the threads).

Then you have to fill the exterior plug wells with the same solvent, or carb cleaner and let sit for awhile to possibly penetrate the first little bit around the threads. Then simply just crack the threads open an eighth of a turn - no more, and let sit for several hours. That lets the solvent slowly creep down the threads as much as possible to the plug that's beyond the threads.

Then slowly, deliberately, screw the plugs back in, then out a quarter turn, then back in an eighth, then back out an eighth. Let sit for another hour with the plug wells full of solvent. Then slowly work the plugs out a little bit at a time, back in, out a little bit further, etc, until they are out.

Most garages or paid mechanics don't have time for all that bull****, and many might just try to force the plugs out with an impact wrench. Which of course will quickly snap off those weak plugs at the insulator.

Best to just get the extraction tool (either NAPA or eBay), and lots of solvent, and a new set of plugs, and the right socket with half-inch drive, and an universal joint extension, and sacrifice the better part of your church day doing the job yourself.


Wow They are that difficult? Henry ford is most certainly rolling in his grave right now!

[BallCoeff.435]

Wow They are that difficult? Henry ford is most certainly rolling in his grave right now!

For some reason, possibly a combination of positioning the plug right in the center of the top of the chamber and trying to get a certain heat rating, they put a long electrode on the plug (or very high threads, depending on how you look at it).

The long electrode/insulator sits inside of a long port in the heads, with a couple millimeters of clearance. That's just enough clearance to let lots of crap build up between the port wall and the inch and quarter of exposed electrode. That cements them in like construction glue. So you usually just twist off the plug right where the insulator meets the bottom of the threads.

A big class-action lawsuit started over it, a few months ago in the states, between FMC and ****ed-off owners.

[RumRugby]

There's a TSB on those plugs isn't there? Something like you need a boat load of nut buster (wife in a can :p) to get them out and a whole hell of a lot of time. Gotta love Ford and they're hair brained ideas!
Good Luck!

[Late Starter]

The flat rate for changing the plugs is something like 7 - 8 hrs. My old boss had asked me to change them once and I told him I didn't have enough time. He didn't believe me and checked with a Ford dealer and found out the flat rate. It happen they had a tune-up special at that time and it was a good deal. I would check with the dealer for specials and let someone who has done many to do it. Also I would mark the rear plugs with a paint marker to make sure it is changed because they are the toughest ones.

Late Starter

[redmega]

I pitty you. Has the be the stupidest thing Ford has ever done.:angry3:

[bezzola]

if you can get your hands on the proper tool for them you can cut your time in half

[chewydog]

I did mine myself! Look up info on a website called fordF150.net. I spent many hours on their first and with the tips I found I did the job with no issues!
Took me 4-5 hours, and was not rushed. A little bit of blood was spilled tho!

[Jar4500]

There is a special procedure and tool to replace thease plugs aprox time 3 to 5 hrs you must brake them loose and soak with combustion cleaner over night to prevent from siezing up.

[xxclaro]

They are a major PITA, but not undoable. If you have time, you'll probably be fine. I've done them and have not yet broke a plug,knock knock! I find access is a greater issue than the plugs themselves.
Soaking them in a good penetrating fluid(either Krano Kroil or LPS)is never a bad idea,although I've done it without. Before I did my first set, one of the seniour mechanics advised me to just crack it loose a tiny bit,then turn it back in. Keep doing that,moving out incrementally. You'll be able to feel if the going gets too tough, and hopefully not break one. If you do, the extractor seems to do a decent job.
If I had to do it myself on my own time, I'd do what someone else suggested,which is to just crack it loose a little bit and then soak it with penetrating fluid. Let it sit for a while,loosen more and soak again. I think you'll be fine, although I bet you figure out curse-combinations you never knew you could muster. It can get downright poetic at times! Enjoy!

[avb3]

The flat rate for changing the plugs is something like 7 - 8 hrs.

Unbelievable! 8 hours to change a set of plugs?

That is the LAST thing I would have thought I needed to consider when buying a vehicle.

Wow.

[fordtruckin]

wasn't the plug issue only with 2004-06 5.4s? I got an 01 that I've been meaning to and I don't know if I gotta worry about my plugs snapping off.

[BallCoeff.435]

wasn't the plug issue only with 2004-06 5.4s? I got an 01 that I've been meaning to and I don't know if I gotta worry about my plugs snapping off.

Wasn't a problem with the old model (pre'04 1/2), as they didn't have the new Triton engine yet. Was fixed sometime from 08 or so on, to use conventional plugs again.

[mtylerb]

I changed my '05 twice in 6 months. More preventative because I screwed up on the initial change. First change took me nine hours to complete because 3 broke. I have the broken spark plug removal tool, if you want to give it a go. It's not the easiest, but you don't need to run seafoam or anything else through the engine. It's up for debate whether that actually does anything positive or not.

Once you've changed them once and followed the TSB, you'll be fine. Further changes will be a breeze. Buy the SP-515, instead of the SP-507 spark plugs and pick up some High Temp Nickel Anti-Seize from Gregg Distributors, or something similar (Can-Tire doesn't carry it).

If you'd like a hand, I might be available next week to give a hand. It's entirely doable on your own, just need a little ... gumption and determination. Hell of a lot cheaper if you do it yourself.

[nicemustang]

There is an easy fix. Trade her off for a new 2011 ecoboost. Problem solved. In fact...I have never kept a vehicle long enough to do these long term maintenance procedures...

[fordtruckin]

There is an easy fix. Trade her off for a new 2011 ecoboost. Problem solved. In fact...I have never kept a vehicle long enough to do these long term maintenance procedures...

Must be nice to have that kinda $$.

[Ken07AOVette]

Woohoo!

Mine is an '01, was worried about that crap. :sHa_shakeshout:

[deanmc]

I would try having the portion of the threads that protrudes into the combustion chamber lathed off. Would certainly make them easier to remove next time. It would not take anywhere near 8 hours to do that.

[deanmc]

Must be nice to have that kinda $$.

Newer vehicles go 100,000 km plus between plug changes. I just changed mine in an 07 3500 6.0l at 170,000. They really were not that bad. I had to change a cracked exhaust manifold so I changed them for the heck of it.

[sako1]

I would try having the portion of the threads that protrudes into the combustion chamber lathed off. Would certainly make them easier to remove next time. It would not take anywhere near 8 hours to do that.

The threads arent the problem,the lower shield on the plug is what is normally seized in the head.

[deanmc]

The threads arent the problem,the lower shield on the plug is what is normally seized in the head.

I googled it. I see what you mean now. Silly design. I am sure they were trying to improve something but seems like a failure.

[harrydude]

has anyone ever used beees wax??

I use it when I get a seized bolt and a little heat and it flows right into the theads....
and it might loosen up the crud on the plug....

but I never had the pleasure yet to do a set of these plugs......

[kenvb]

that Kroil is great stuff,
and IF you manage to get them out without breaking em off, dont be a cheapass and buy the same crap Ford plugs,go to the one piece plug,Champion or NGK is one piece I think,after 40 yrs of fixing vehicles,the 4.2. 4.6 5.4 and V-10s are top of list of Fords Biggest POS motors,
I had a 86 F-250 with a 300 Six 4 spd, on Propane ,ran 750,000 till I installed a rebuilt,best motors Ford ever made.and this F-250 was a Tow Truck,had a electric Hydrualic sling lift on the back..Loved towing new Diesals in to the dealers with this ole girl,some owners wouldnt ever ride with me,too embarrased.

[BallCoeff.435]

I changed my '05 twice in 6 months. More preventative because I screwed up on the initial change. First change took me nine hours to complete because 3 broke. I have the broken spark plug removal tool, if you want to give it a go. It's not the easiest, but you don't need to run seafoam or anything else through the engine. It's up for debate whether that actually does anything positive or not.
[...]

Every plug I took out (only one of mine broke), was covered in what looked like thick brown clay mud, or thin putty. I'm convinced that driving with the cleaner in the tank, and using carb cleaner after cracking the plugs, does soften up the heavy deposits substantially.

Can't image that you'd get thin liquid deposits like that in the engine after several years of use. Normally they'd probably look like heavy dry creosote or ceramic or something like that.

I do agree that use of the nickle-base antiseize compound is essential, if you want to have a easier time of changing the plugs next time.

[CeeZee]

if you can get your hands on the proper tool for them you can cut your time in half
I agree, I picked up this tool that was suggested on here and worked like a charm, 5/8 of mine broke off on my 2005. Just search it on here and find the post from DIAMONDDAVE I believe recomending a tool from NAPA.

[lugeboy]

There not hard just take some stuff off (Air clener intake and boom 2 hours your done just use an air nozzle and clean the port and it should come out rel easy. The book gives 7.25 and I do them in under 2 hours. Flat rate rocks for some jobs!!!!!

[mtylerb]

There not hard just take some stuff off (Air clener intake and boom 2 hours your done just use an air nozzle and clean the port and it should come out rel easy. The book gives 7.25 and I do them in under 2 hours. Flat rate rocks for some jobs!!!!!

I forgot about that. Make sure you have compressed air to blow the dirt out before you take the spark plug wires off. Less chance of rocks or small chunks of gravel falling into the cylinder. About 2 hours is what it takes me now that I've followed the TSB. It took me 9 hours, the first time, mostly because I didn't blow out the dirt and a small chunk of rock got down next to the spark plug and my socket wouldn't settle properly. That and cylinder 8's spark plug broke and that's a pain to get out.

[CeeZee]

I agree, I picked up this tool that was suggested on here and worked like a charm, 5/8 of mine broke off on my 2005. Just search it on here and find the post from DIAMONDDAVE I believe recomending a tool from NAPA.
I also posted a bunch of pics in there, I did the sea foam, then the soaking for 2 days while moving just a hair at a time, threading out a bit then back in, but hey, 5 broke off but the tool was an absolute breeze, i was too worried for nothing, after soaking and actually working on it, took me 3 or 4 hrs i believe.

[bigd]

Gents

I really appreciate all of the tips, advice, personal experiences and even an offer to come and help me (thx Tylerb) regarding this plug change process. I really do appreciate it...however I am in the process of a work transfer and am working full time (and then some) and then am going non-stop on the house in my spare time to get it ready for the market. I really don't have the time (or the tools) to do this job right now.

As per my original post, does anyone know of a good non-dealership mechanic that I can trust that has experience with this particular service on the Triton 5.4? I would consider any moonlighters that come highly recommended, as long as he/she has relevent experience with this particular job and doesn't charge dealer rates.

Thx.

D

[Stinky Buffalo]

I had Schwabe's do it for me... Mine were original at 200K, and they only broke one on the way out. Was about 1K for the change, though.

One thing, they did suggest putting in the Champion 1-piece plug. Truck doesn't seem to like them - just not running as smoothly as I would have expected (it's a 2005 with a 5.4). I think I should have gone with the Motorcraft instead... Jury's still out on that one, going to check out the COP's next.

Cheers,
Stinky

[bigd]

I had Schwabe's do it for me... Mine were original at 200K, and they only broke one on the way out. Was about 1K for the change, though.

One thing, they did suggest putting in the Champion 1-piece plug. Truck doesn't seem to like them - just not running as smoothly as I would have expected (it's a 2005 with a 5.4). I think I should have gone with the Motorcraft instead... Jury's still out on that one, going to check out the COP's next.

Cheers,
Stinky

I'm surprised to hear the Champions aren't working well for you. I've been cruising the F150 forums lately and haven't really heard any negative feedback on them in the Triton 5.4.

$1000 bucks for R&R of 8 sparkplugs...what the frig was Ford thinking when they approved those 2 pc plugs? I think my local Ford dealer price came in at around $800 +/-.

Guess I might have to try to squeeze in some time to do it myself. Damn you Ford.

Wish I didn't love this truck so much. :angry3:

[Ken07AOVette]

.what the frig was Ford thinking when they approved those 2 pc plugs?

Woohoo!!! We are going to get $800.00 every 100,000 km out of 1,500,000 trucks! :sHa_shakeshout:

[Stinky Buffalo]

Woohoo!!! We are going to get $800.00 every 100,000 km out of 1,500,000 trucks! :sHa_shakeshout:

Hahahahaha! Exactly!

I'm surprised to hear the Champions aren't working well for you. I've been cruising the F150 forums lately and haven't really heard any negative feedback on them in the Triton 5.4.
I've read a few negative comments... On mine, one plug (#4- ARRRRRGH!) ended up shorting out, taking out the (new) COP... But again, it's got a few miles on it, and I should probably take a look at a few other things on that engine (like replacing the remaining COPS etc.)

Wish I didn't love this truck so much. :angry3:
Sigh... Me too. Every time I put her to work I forgive her. :love0025:

[Jiffy10]

FInd an independent shop that will take the time to change these and
not charge you by the hour !! They will want your truck for a few
days so make arrangements to be without it for a day or two. If you
get the right guys.... he will go out and soak the holes 2 - 3 times the
first day so they will come out easy. Two brands of plugs champion
and autolite make a one peice steel plug that has no porcelin on the
business end . This makes for proper removal the next time. I know
a couple of places that will do it and never have an issue.

How to I know ?? I took mine in to FORD and they called me back in
less than an hour and told me that they broke off 7 of the 8 plugs.
I cant even begin to tell you how stupid this guy was not to do any
prep work before busting them all off but 1 .
No deals.... no explaining themselves. $1500 to get it out of the shop
or they wouldnt release the truck.

You'd think that Ford would have a procedure for this so they wouldnt
just Bugger up the whole job. NOPE>>>>>

they weren't " TEAM " players if you know what I mean ....

[HunterDave]

I'm soooo glad that I read this thread! I'm hitting about 150K on my '05 F150 and I've been thinking about changing my plugs. Now I'm going to take notes from the thread and make sure that I have ALL of the goodies that I need before I start the job. Can anyone give me a guesstimate as to what the special extraction tool will cost? It's gotta be allot cheaper than what the dealership will cost me.......$1K! :scared0015:

[mtylerb]

I'm soooo glad that I read this thread! I'm hitting about 150K on my '05 F150 and I've been thinking about changing my plugs. Now I'm going to take notes from the thread and make sure that I have ALL of the goodies that I need before I start the job. Can anyone give me a guesstimate as to what the special extraction tool will cost? It's gotta be allot cheaper than what the dealership will cost me.......$1K! :scared0015:

You're not too far from me? You're free to use my broken spark plug removal tool. They're about $160 new. No special "extensions" needed. Just have a few various sized ones ready. High temp nickel antiseize you can get from Gregg Distributors for around $25. I used new MotorCraft SP515 spark plugs instead of SP507 or Champions. They were around $200. I heard bad things about Champion's failing. The new SP515's with the properly applied antiseize come out like a dream. A torque wrench is a must for tightening them down. Compressed air for blowing out the dirt around the COP's before removal.

If you're taking out your spark plugs, you could (should) change your COP's at the same time. Buy a "10 pack" off ebay for around $150. I can get you links, if you can't find them. They're MotorCraft parts, but they're bulk boxed, so they're way cheaper than the $50/ea that the stealership wants. Heck, you could do you injectors at the same time. They're around $150 for 8 with the same type of deal.

After all the plugs are out, crank the engine a few times to get anything that's fallen into the cylinders out. It'll take a few hours to do, but saves you a metric tonne in labour costs. I did my COP's, injectors and spark plugs at the same time (and battery and Fuel Pump Driver Module <-- check this if yours is still original!). Far easier that way and you know all the parts are new and not prone to failure.

[HunterDave]

Thanks for the offer mtylerb..........I'll take you up on the offer to borrow your tool when I get everything together.........it's gotta be worth a few beer anyway. :) I've got tools, a torque wrench and compressor so I shouldn't have a problem with anything else.

Injectors I've done before but what are the COP's?

I'll start shopping for goodies today! :)

[mtylerb]

Thanks for the offer mtylerb..........I'll take you up on the offer to borrow your tool when I get everything together.........it's gotta be worth a few beer anyway. :) I've got tools, a torque wrench and compressor so I shouldn't have a problem with anything else.

Injectors I've done before but what are the COP's?

I'll start shopping for goodies today! :)

COP's are the "Coil Over Plug" or "Coil On Plug". Gets rid of the need for a distributor cap and high voltage wires snaking to the spark plugs. You'll notice tiny wires running to them and then a cylindrical black item over top of where the spark plug is. That's your COP. They go bad from time to time, usually when the spark plugs are changed, if you're not careful. They tend to mold to the spark plug with the heat from the engine, so changing them out for new ones when you change the spark plugs is a good idea.

I suggested the injectors because the '05 model (my truck, for example) had issues where the injector was prone to sticking open. This caused the cylinder to fill with gas and the spark wouldn't cause the explosion necessary. You're piston being forced up by the remaining 7 cylinders can't compress the fluid and snaps the arms, etc. "Hydrolocking" is a bad thing and usually requires a new short block.

Forgive me if my explanations are more than required. I'm not implying anyone is stupid.

Oh and:

Thanks for the offer mtylerb..........I'll take you up on the offer to borrow your tool ...

:scared0015: :scared0018:

[nicholal]

FInd an independent shop that will take the time to change these and
not charge you by the hour !! They will want your truck for a few
days so make arrangements to be without it for a day or two. If you
get the right guys.... he will go out and soak the holes 2 - 3 times the
first day so they will come out easy. Two brands of plugs champion
and autolite make a one peice steel plug that has no porcelin on the
business end . This makes for proper removal the next time. I know
a couple of places that will do it and never have an issue.

How to I know ?? I took mine in to FORD and they called me back in
less than an hour and told me that they broke off 7 of the 8 plugs.
I cant even begin to tell you how stupid this guy was not to do any
prep work before busting them all off but 1 .
No deals.... no explaining themselves. $1500 to get it out of the shop
or they wouldnt release the truck.

You'd think that Ford would have a procedure for this so they wouldnt
just Bugger up the whole job. NOPE>>>>>

they weren't " TEAM " players if you know what I mean ....

Ever wonder if they (give people the shaft) By doing the job in an hour and telling you .......oppps 7 broke and it will be 1500 bucks to fix?? What ya going to do?? You cant start your truck and go to anther shop!!

AL

[HunterDave]

Oh and:



:scared0015: :scared0018:

YOUR SPARK PLUG EXTRACTOR TOOL!!!! :sHa_sarcasticlol::budo:

[mtylerb]

YOUR SPARK PLUG EXTRACTOR TOOL!!!! :sHa_sarcasticlol::budo:

LOL.

Glad we got that clarified.

:sHa_shakeshout: