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I hardly see how doing nothing from now on helps anyone. |
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Probably as narrow minded as thinking buying a trail cam and utilizing it's features will produce the results you see on the idiot box.. Sheep brought up Cancer, well deeply seeded in our own group this malicious disease is spreading faster than any other concern in our future of this precious resource... We as sportsmen and women are the Cancer and will be the ultimate end to a passion and a future... |
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One more for sake of arguement your arguement holds no ground , a small high risk area probably similar to the sampling around a cwd pos elk farm as you are suggesting was probably a small high risk area, 486 and 320 tested seems reasonable to believe it was a similar circumstance, what have we learned from these neg tests ? You need numbers when your dealing with low percentages, thousands not hundreds :snapoutofit: n late March and early April of 2005 a similar cull took place when a total of 486 deer were culled from what was termed a ?small high-risk area? east of Chauvin. Despite culling these animals, no positive cases of CWD were found. http://www.meridianbooster.com/2006/...uvin-deer-cull From this cull in an known small high risk area of 486 animals tested negative. So if we would have based our results on this low deer submission it's obvious the results are skewed.... agreed? |
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Doing nothing certainly avoids me wasting my time and ****ing off my neighbors. |
[QUOTE=pre64;1740957][QUOTE=buck1979;1740163] (No, Not exactly... I have said that, until I am in a position, that I know where that deer is regularly in daylight, that I will not waste time hunting it, rather continue scouting. Becuase frankly if I dont know where he is spending his daylight hours, I haven't done my homework. The point to that statment is exactly the opposite of how you interperted it. I don't wait, ever.
So if I remove "feeding area" from my comment then I have the correct interpretation. Hardly the exact opposite...Let me put it this way...You locate a shooter buck (trail cam or visually with/without feed/bait) and monitor with trail cams in multiple spots or visually until you locate where he IS travelling in good light, Then you setup and wait - hunt for him over bait or not over bait. The only way I can see you not waiting is if you can walk/stalk right up to the buck and kill him. [QUOTE=buck1979;1740163] If I hang a trail camera on a post, trail, field edge, or a bait, if I do not get pics of visiuals of my target buck in 48-72 hours, Im in the wrong spot and obviously not in his house. So we scout and move, and figure out the deer, THEN when were in a position where we know where he IS travelling in good light, we will go and hunt him. Like I said you wait for him to appear - hunt for him. It was an episode of Canada in the Rough (stickers buck) where you made those comments, however you never mentioned "his house" so I took it you were referencing bait. "stickers" was killed over bait. I knew of a 230 inch non-typical, problem was his bedroom was in the middle of a 2 sq. mile solid thick bush "house". So I guess the term "house" is relative to the area the bucks lives in and how to hunt him. He was eventually killed (no bait involved) out on the edge of his "house" after 2 visual sightings (homework) and 3 hunting seasons of waiting/hunting the edge he favored. [QUOTE=buck1979;1740163] ...I read on this thread with the right bait you can grow a 200" whitetail... I will go with umm... no. I did not say "with the right bait you can grow a 200" whitetail". I said "with a few years of feeding prime, genetically superior bucks the right "$tuff", you could grow a 200+ inch Sask WT..."could" being the operative word, as in possibly, not "can" as you quoted me...big difference there. [QUOTE=buck1979;1740163] You cant grow a wild whitetail period. Depends on what defines a truly wild whitetail. Once you start placing (not growing/deriving from the ground) feed/bait/minerals etc. repeatedly for whitetails at a specific small spot, the deer that feed there are not 100% wild. Even though they may be legally killed in some provinces/states. Less than 100% wild, the potential thru supplemental artificially placing feed to influence and enhance antler size of certain bucks is a fact. Optimum conditions for antler growth, whether they occur naturally or are created/placed artificially, can produce bigger antlers. For 15 years in the 1980's and 1990's I made available supplemental feed to the local (no hunting zone) deer around my place. Usually had around 75 deer annually. I watched many bucks mature and grow up from age 1 1/2 including a couple of 180 class and a 190 class typical and a 240 class non-typical. At the start I fed them only from Dec thru April. When I started supplemental feeding during May thru July for a few years 2 bucks really put on the inches and grew their best racks, becoming 240 class non-typical and 180 class typical bucks even though we had dry spring-dry summer conditions. When they were young there antlers were nothing special, unlike an 8 1/2 yr. old 190 class typical who was approx. a 100 inch 10 pt buck when he was 1 1/2. Many other bucks also had better than ave. yearly increases in antler growth when I fed them during the growing season. But many bucks never passed the 150-160 class. Pre64, I'm not argueing with you, but I think your just reading what you want to hear. Your first post was specificaly meant to sound like dump a bait and wait. I was pointing out, thats exactly what we try to show guys not to do. If there is a buck you want to kill, I dont care if its in a 25x25 block of timber, if you dont have a knowledge of where he is in daylight evey other day, you just dont have enough info about the deer. period. I dont believe in nocturnal deer. This....is just my opinion. There are several bucks its taken us years to get. In the end it was always our errors or lack of knowledge that prevented us from getting him. I hunted a buck in 2011, I hunted him 70 nights, with one poor encounter. This year we put more scouting in to the point that I slept in the fields in Aug to be there to try and spot him coming into bedding etc... We changed everything and re-set up. I had 3 encounters with him and killed him on the 4th night. I shot him Oct 6th, so 37 days into the season. In 37days there were only 4 that the conditions were right as we were set up within 200yds of where he was bedding. My point is, bait and wait is very un productive. In Sk, everywhere is a food plot, you cannot artificially feed enough to change their horn growth. I dont buy it for a second. THey have optimal nutrition on every quater of land. I know many guys that have tried to "grow" them to no avail. |
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[QUOTE=buck1979;1744568][QUOTE=pre64;1740957][QUOTE=buck1979;1740163] (No, Not exactly... I have said that, until I am in a position, that I know where that deer is regularly in daylight, that I will not waste time hunting it, rather continue scouting. Becuase frankly if I dont know where he is spending his daylight hours, I haven't done my homework. The point to that statment is exactly the opposite of how you interperted it. I don't wait, ever.
So if I remove "feeding area" from my comment then I have the correct interpretation. Hardly the exact opposite...Let me put it this way...You locate a shooter buck (trail cam or visually with/without feed/bait) and monitor with trail cams in multiple spots or visually until you locate where he IS travelling in good light, Then you setup and wait - hunt for him over bait or not over bait. The only way I can see you not waiting is if you can walk/stalk right up to the buck and kill him. [QUOTE=buck1979;1740163] If I hang a trail camera on a post, trail, field edge, or a bait, if I do not get pics of visiuals of my target buck in 48-72 hours, Im in the wrong spot and obviously not in his house. So we scout and move, and figure out the deer, THEN when were in a position where we know where he IS travelling in good light, we will go and hunt him. Like I said you wait for him to appear - hunt for him. It was an episode of Canada in the Rough (stickers buck) where you made those comments, however you never mentioned "his house" so I took it you were referencing bait. "stickers" was killed over bait. I knew of a 230 inch non-typical, problem was his bedroom was in the middle of a 2 sq. mile solid thick bush "house". So I guess the term "house" is relative to the area the bucks lives in and how to hunt him. He was eventually killed (no bait involved) out on the edge of his "house" after 2 visual sightings (homework) and 3 hunting seasons of waiting/hunting the edge he favored. [QUOTE=buck1979;1740163] ...I read on this thread with the right bait you can grow a 200" whitetail... I will go with umm... no. I did not say "with the right bait you can grow a 200" whitetail". I said "with a few years of feeding prime, genetically superior bucks the right "$tuff", you could grow a 200+ inch Sask WT..."could" being the operative word, as in possibly, not "can" as you quoted me...big difference there. Quote:
So then how would you explain the Farmed animals and their horn growth? |
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Same as cruetsfelt Jacobs diease, Same as Variance cuetlsfelt Jacobs disease, same as Bovine Spongeiform Encephelopathy AKA: BSE AKA: Mad Cow Disease. Is it possible CWD is a naturally occuring disease in wild ungulate populations and only because our current ungulate populations are at a historic all time high we are seeing an increase in reported cases? ...Probably not because SRD doesn't think so and they are a bunch of geniuses...you know, same as Alberta can't support a Grizzley hunt and Bighorn sheep are on the Brink!!!! |
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* Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (CJD) * Variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (vCJD) * Gerstmann-Straussler-Scheinker Syndrome * Fatal Familial Insomnia * Kuru In animals there are: * Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE) * Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD) * Scrapie * Transmissible mink encephalopathy * Feline spongiform encephalopathy * Ungulate spongiform encephalopathy Now just because they are all prion disease does not mean they transmit the same way or can even be transmitted. CJD and vCJD are non-infectious. You can't get them from shaking hands or licking butts or anything. BSE can not be transmitted other than by consuming contaminated parts ie, brain, spinal column etc. Kuru is the same way. Eat the brain of a Kuru infected person. Scrapie on the other hand is infectious. Like CWD. It can spread live animal to live animal. That is why those two diseases are treated differently than the others. BSE is easy to eradicate. So is Kuru. Don't be a cannibal. Bah why do I do this to myself? |
"If someone continues researching this topic and can find factual information as to WHERE CWD originated? (Not in 1967 because of a test I know this already) How CWD originated? How CWD is transferred? And if this is a natural disease or something created through human involvement."
Donkey, Are the answers to the above questions known and if they are, are they accepted as scientific fact? Is there anywhere I can read the accepted studies? I am just interested in the facts. If you can point me in the right direction it would be greatly appreciated. |
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You are bringing some great info to the discussion....while lost on a few of the posters here, I suspect the silent majority is taking it in :) Keep up the good work! |
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vCJD http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/vcjd/index.htm (talks about how they know its from BSE) Kuru http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/001379.htm CWD interesting little paper. http://www.google.ca/url?url=http://...0Z8NzC1RES94BA No one can definitively say where CWD comes from. There are three theories. Scrapie jumped the species barrier in the research facility in Colorado (where the disease was first identified, with mule deer housed in the same pens as scrapie infected sheep once housed), it is a sporadic disease that has appeared and disappeared, or its always been there but no one was looking for it. If its natural then we should do nothing. Let it runs its course I guess. Bury heads in sand. Do nothing. That doesn't sound right to me. Does it to anyone else? Research, and maybe just maybe we will find answers. Maybe a vaccine. Maybe the source. Maybe nothing. What we do know is that CWD is spread from animal to animal without having to ingest infected brain or spinal column like BSE or Kuru. It can be spread live animal to live animal and it can stay in the environment for a really really long time. So from that we can say that lower the density of animals in any given spot should slow the disease. One thing we have going for us in Alberta verses Wisconsin, Colorado and others. Don't artifically group animals in close areas, (baiting) where the concentration of the prion can increase. Seems to me prevention is worth more than anything. |
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Even in a farm deer, you cant turn a 150 into a 200. They can only grow what they have in their genetic make up to grow. Hormones and growth medications etc can be administered to make him reach his genetic potential but.. he is what he is. Some giant 300" cactus head from a farm, if let into the wild, would shed and still regrow a giant. |
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SRD did a slide presention to ABA
David:) CWD UPDATE --- We were shown a power point outlining some information of CWD, the current strategy, creating a National Strategy (a broad program and establish best practices) and what the future may hold. CWD is 10x more prevalent in mule deer than whitetails, 2x more so in males, is not native to deer/elk/moose, Alberta has had 127 positives out of 45000 samples, CWD is spreading and evidence from other areas suggest it can lead to long term declines in populations and hunting opportunity, feeding and baiting deer can increase spread. |
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Last line makes me smile a little actually, mule deer subject to 10 fold the target species for baiting with a confirmed percentage of infection 0.0028.. So move decimal one more notch to the right and 0.00028 chance of a target species such as the whitetail deer possibly having an increased risk of disease if Alberta allowed baiting for the purpose of hunting. |
If you did like we do with rats on the border area for 14 to 16 years then the prion infect rate would be greatly affected
sure in the infected zone there will be very few deer but the rate of infection wiil be able to be identified and 100 percent killing of animals in those very hot areas will be have to be done nothing differn,t than the CDC putting a Quarintine on a area for public safty and allowing no movement till they get a handle to the outbreak have a great years of hunting all the other non infected WMU's and even if this does not work you will have not done any thing differn,t than what will happen if you do nothing as in the end there will be no deer left untouched in the infected areas /hot spots if not it will take it's course and soon within 30 more years every WMU in Alberta will have CWD and it will be at the mountains and will have jumped to ELK and MOOSE and will jump too Sheep in afew years from then:scared0018: is this what you guys want the next paragraph but no do not whatever you do try to keep in at the border we know that won,t help is that what your saying and keep the numbers high so that the infection rate is quicker and more animals get CWD and so that the travelers can run the major corridors and go further into more WMU's:snapoutofit: if you look at Colarado it is mostly red in my previous post and the numbers in some areas is allmost non-existant as CWD has taken its course now they will have to make 14 to 20 years to come back with none infected deer or it will stay that low pretty easy for me too say lets be proactive and do something not now but Right Now i hope we have the balls to do the program this time and inform the public that this is a CDC/WHO type thing in layman terms I'am all in Food for Thought David:) David:) |
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David:) |
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LC:) |
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See you can manipulate numbers to show others there is a concern :) Glad you caught that, was my intention to skew the masses, a little like the ones who produced this information indicating in last line that baiting is certainly going to increase the risk :sHa_sarcasticlol: |
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What is wrong with this picture?........:sEm_oops2: |
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I assume you are a game farmer and I assume you'd like to see hunt farms in Alberta and I assume you wouldn't like to see the connection between game farms and CWD in wild ungulates made. |
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Tap root cwd, nuff said....... It's called politics and who's gonna compensate the farmer when they finally wake up and realize we are just chasing our tail |
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This is what i find annoying so i will ask you this? Yes or NO, do you feel 100% confident cwd doesn't exist west of the border? I;m talking as far west as Edmonton near or around pos elk and deer farms that have tested positve for cwd.....knowing full well it exists in the soil for many years and knowing the gov only tested a few hundred heads and random road kills...... Also knowing with very low percentages of actual cwd positives we need thousands of head submissions to have accurate results.... I'm not talking province wide but around the pos cwd deer and elk farms in Alberta? Also knowing a deer can travel up as far as 40kms between winter and summer ranges proven by collared deer in the cwd zone... Yes or NO? I want your own personal opinion , not an opinion swayed by _____ |
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IMHO....it could be anywhere that we have game farms. No need to add a caveat...my opinion is never swayed by anything but personal research and experience....it'll save you some typing next time ;) |
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