According to Jim Allen they are putting together a major fire burn for the Bow River to Brazeau area for this purpose.

Most if not all prescribed burns are directed at old growth timber are they not. This does open a little new area but as has been seen on many past burns it does not burn much of the higher sheep country in which sheep frequent the most. Burning in our mountain areas isnt new by any means.
But if they are going to do it to help sheep habitat they need to do above timber line burns. Burning the timber gets ome new growth that pulls some sheep down into areas that they dont have the normal protection of the rock and cliffs that they use so at times it increases the chance of predator attacks.
Just my opinion.
SG

The problem with this sheep is i seen the pic with out the whited out area know who it was and was told this person got to keep it with only a warning and no the other side aint any longer

You sure a re a funny guy.No we didnt accomplish anything.I still dont see why you had to come up with your BS reply after I made a comment about sheep and boundries.You should know all about boundries with your two late season(yes the rut) Cadomin tags.I am not whinning I am just sticking up for myself.You you are just stirring the pot.By the way I have lots of ideas but I dont feal the need to post all on here.I leave that to you so you look so smart.

Good point SG I aggre with you that is mostlikley what happens when the come down.They need to burn higher.I also think these site are where they need to do there predator control if that were to happen.

I'm stirring the pot and you, are what being reasonable? HAhahaha. Many, many people have difficulties reading the maps to figure out boundaries and you believe that the sheep know them by heart, are you the one that gives them a copy of the regs so they know when to get back across the boundaries every on time year? Yeah, I'll laugh at you all I want. Take a step back and think a little and you'll realize how silly you are making yourself look.

It is funny that about a dozen were laughing at you not me. I never said it like you keep saying.What ever.You keep telling yourself you know everything and you will start to beleive it. OH you already do.:rolleyes:

Funny if this so called veteran sheep hunter had a real sheep discusion with Dewey Browning he would know this. Dropping names of legendary sheep outfitters to make yourself look good doesnt work well when one of the guys your bashing learned from him .
Dewey is one of the guys I learned how to hunt sheep from. I spent more than one afternoon with him. I grew up listening to him from before I was old enough to hunt. He knew just like any one how the boundries work. Its obvious that 209 hasnt hunted many areas with a boundry other than during the rut. And name dropping of a legendary sheep outfitter isnt gunna make him look any smarter.

The only people that dont think sheep know the boundries are the ones that havent been around much.

Come on!!! Give a little more credit to the guys that haven't been around much.
I haven't been around much, but I think sheep know where the safe havens are!! But, I still have a lot to learn. I am not one that knows everything.:D

Exactly you know they are smart enough to know where a santuary or park is. Whether its instinct or relative thought. If someone is gunna say that others dont know what they are talking about because of there own lack of experience thats just fool hardy. Even most inexperienced sheep hunters know better than some self proclamed veterans on this subject.
Animals learn where they are safe, they know what side of the mountain is park and what side isnt. Sure they dont know exactly within a few feet where the line is but they do know where it is.

Why aren't all the sheep in the park all the time? Are some not as smart as the rest? This is a pitiful distraction from the issues at hand.

I wonder if the gov't has discussed the use of shrub control chemicals that have become very popular for reclaiming agricultural pasture land. What would be the issues surrounding the use of these to "improve" the higher sheep habitat.

Maybe an idea for a grant proposal to the ACA? A test area? Someone like SG to identify a problem area, assemble an application team and set up a long term monitoring for efficacy.

I don't know, Vin. This is just what I have observed. Like I said I have a lot to learn.
Maybe someone with more experience can explain why the sheep lay 25' inside the fences, and then come out when the season is over. I don't know if some sheep are smarter then others, but I think they "learn" more as they get older.

Vin you have already prooved your lack of personal knowledge. You dont know how sheep are in the real world as you havent been out there. Im not gunna get into this with someone that cant back one thing they said without information from an outside source. You are a joke to most on this thread. To you, you figure you are looking smart to most everyone else you look like a person that has no first hand knowledge on the topic being discussed. Go back to reading your books and searching your topics and some of us will actually go out there and see how things actually are.

And a distraction from the issue at hand? Isnt the topic of this thread SHEEP?
Seems to me we are right on the issue... all things concerning and about sheep.

Do all are above timber areas in Alberta have an abundance of shrubs? Some maybe. In some of the valleys and up a little ways on the hills. But as your lack of knowledge shows once again many areas sheep frequent are only short grasses and lychens.
These areas could burn if targeted but they have yet to be targeted.

I think you should maybe try and spend some time out there before you try and come up with all the answers. For one people would look at you in a better light.

Actually controlled burns are more about aspen and shrubby encroachment into the open slopes. It's not so much about opening new areas but stopping encroachment into traditional winter range. Fire suppresion has allowed traditional winter range to become overgrown. There's no reason to burn the open slopes...it about reclaimng those open slopes from the encroachment of aspen and shrubs.

You are correct that there's nothing new about it...they just aren't doing much of it any more.

Probably not the best idea as the chemicals you speak of are not recommended for slopes or non-porous soils. Run off would pool these chemicals and cause other problems such as poisoning of local wildlife and or contamination of headwaters. I saw some of these chemical being used near Summit lake in BC (just outside the Alberta border). Run off from the vegetation down the slopes into the creek killed off 85% of the Cutthroat Trout that were spawning last spring. The company responsible still has not been dealt with so it will probably happen again this year.

In response to other thoughts on Management: More sheep would be nice to have as long as it does not hurt the sheep themselves and/or come at a cost to other wildlife populations. Populations of wildlife should be managed for healthy numbers and habitat not for the appeasement of hunters that don't understand the importance of balance.

Awww. You hurt my feelings.:cry:

It is unfortunate that some people don't want to look into things any deeper than a superficial, anecdotal glance. Issues surrounding sheep are diverse and multilayered. What I observe on the surface may or may not be as simple as it seems. That is why it is of benefit to look into the body of research from the myriad of other people who have had those same questions and by the process of rigorous scientific investigation have tried to define the answers. It would be extremely naive of me to think that I was the first to observe certain events or postulate on their causes and effects. It would be foolish of me to haughtily dismiss the body of scientific knowledge that has been amassed on the reference subject. It would be prudent of me to measure the knowledge gleaned from the scientific community against my own observations for similarities and contradictions.

SG, put aside the victim act and maybe, just maybe, there would be room for some fruitful discussion.

Outside the park?
 

Less competition for food,more and different ewes in heat,pecking order changes in park,maybe remembered " greener pastures". Could be some of the same reason why all humans don`t like towns and cities; "Too crowded":)

Yep, there are likely a host of other reasons. As with everything here this is not a simple black and white issue that is trying to be made out by some for the sole purpose of trying to elevate their status by demeaning others. Hence the distraction term.

Its fine Vin sure there are a bunch of studies on a couple isolated herds. It does show how them herds are effected. But would these studies change if you added hunting into the mix? Of course.

You have your ideas I have mine you can follow all your syudies and beleive what you wish. Sheep in different areas travel different, feed different, in general may act a little different. If you dont do a study on the mass majority of areas your gunna have a biased study based on a small portion of the big picture. It shows a generalized assumption but every area is its own population. To say every herd has the same issues to the same extent is wrong. Some herds live in areas with lots of bush. Some with no bush. Do you think predator deaths is the same in both? I really doubt it.
Some areas have high hunter pressure some have none(the study areas you keep bringing up have none). Some have influence from sanctuaries and parks, some are strictly resident herds. Your studies do show some fact but does not cover all different situations Alberta bighorns face.

If someone doesnt agree with you or your studies you do that exact thing.

Too funny, a shallow BSer!! you have a way with words Vin.

Not sure on the type of BS'er 209 is but he sure isnt a good one.

I think some call it hunting pressure!! ;)

Hunting pressure somewhat. Alot of them rams never cross that line (to be pushed back by hunting pressure)until novenber hits. They just know what side is safe. They just live on the other side of the mountan until either bad weather pushes them out or the rut gets them traveling. They know where the line is or there would be alot more huge sheep shot.

Well a bit of a summary on the sheep specific draw issues.

1) SRD is not currently considering the 5 year wait after a successful sheep hunt.
2) SRD is considering a priority 6 cap on draw applications beginning in 2011.
3) SRD is considering bringing all sheep draws under one draw code.

Anyone have any thinking on this one? Since you are only allowed to enter one sheep draw anyway I don't think it is much effect at all. Except that folks would start building priority in 438 before it became a totally random draw again if coupled with the 6 year cap.

You could bounce around between sheep draws just as you do WMUs in say a mule deer draw. Not sure how they'd consolidate the priority between all the draws unless they went to a cap of 6. 444/446 has the lowest top priority right now at 6. 408 has 7 I think and 437 is around 13 or 14.