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I don't agree with Brent failing to bring the issue to the ABA membership. That was a serious mistake, and he will wear it on his reputation for likely as long as he hunts in Alberta. But it hardly represents the entire organization. Why is no one critisizing the AFGA for failing to oppose the matter? Oh that's because they are mostly rifle hunters and didn't care until they realized they could use it against the ABA (hint-Payback for keeping bolt&string guns out of archery season, the inclusion of which was sheephumpers pet project. He has been in full-on attack mode since then, and is instigating most of this) |
I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me which rifle hunters are restricting opportunity for bowhunters, although two people have since chimed in saying they agree.
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As for restricting opportunities: the goal of sheephumper was to eliminate archery season by allowing crossbows (so pretty much anyone who can pull a trigger) into bow season. A couple years of that, harvest "stats" balloon, and everything goes on draw and no archery season. Anyone who wants to hunt with a bow risks getting shot because they are closer to an animal. He failed, and has been using his influence with the Afga to instigate problems. Quote:
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Was it Brent's idea to just to throw spear and Atlatl guys under the bus because there are a few and they are starting to form there own association? Threat to the split draw because of a few spear and atlatl hunters after they define a weapon? (define a weapon for all seasons) Does he just have a hate on for spear and atlatl hunters? Was Brent the scape goat for the ABA? What does the ABA have to gain by this? I don't know of any instances of spear or atlatl hunters attacking the ABA prior to there proposal. Tell me a story of why I might not be able to spear hunt this season. Maybe sit down and think if it was bow hunting that was on the chopping block. Like I said the ABA has done lots for bow hunters but this simply wasn't one of them and that is why I won't join there organization. |
Dmcbride....I will repeat the ABA did not act alone they are part of AGMAG, the other stake holders collectively have more say than the ABA if a proposal is off base to the majority of the user groups, they can band against a single group and shoot down an idea they do not want to move forward.
For the record, I know spears and atlatl's have a very small following and the influence is going to be minimal....BUT as other hunting methods have rules/regs/ and minimums so should these methods. LC |
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I also have no problem with some kind of rules, regs and minimums if they need to be there. But proposing a ban which the ABA did is not right. |
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"SRD Enforcement will bring issue back to Dec AGMAG with proposal to prohibit hunting with spears. Was no opposition from groups at AGMAG" Read the above...it is NOT just one group. IMHO the SRD is the "driving force" but again this is all hearsay. In the end IMHO the ABA has done more good than harm, not every organization I belong to makes 100% good decisions 100% of the time. If that organization effects me in some fashion positive or negative the only way I can make a change is to get involved. LC |
who cares about ABA rules? Isn't it really about the hunting experience, without rules? :thinking-006: Be free, you only live once so go for it! :)
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Does bow hunting and fly fishing go hand in hand? Is it comparable to spear hunting and chucking pickerel rigs?? :sHa_sarcasticlol:
I'm kidding... Sounds like a mistake was made. Work together and get past it to put it in the past. One large group is always stronger than multiple small groups. Big hugs all the way around. |
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I wish you luck with this group and hope you can make changes for the better. |
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Did the proposal go forward? What happens internal to the ABA is their issue to resolve...as with any organization there is usually only 10-20% participation...look at how many people vote in federal and provincial elections. Apathy is rampant everywhere. If the proposal was on the mind of SRD, then even if the ABA didn't draft something, it likely would have been drafted anyway. So if the ABA was asked to draft a proposal for the entire group...then I guess they fell on the sword. LC |
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Who needs to worry about anti-hunting groups like PETA when you have so called hunting organizations like the ABA attacking outdoors men? :mad0100: |
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Who knows, maybe it won't go through. :bad_boys_20: |
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LC :) |
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LC |
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2012 - Two ABA members discuss atlatl/spear issue with ABA Pres. Brent Watson who contacts head of enforcement in Alberta, Pat Dunford, for clarification about laws. May 29, 2012 - Watson raises the question at AGMAG mtg. - ESRD explains that there are no laws wrt the use of atlalts/spears. Watson states: "From that I/we drafted up a change proposal on behalf of the AGMAG stakeholders to have it officially put on the agenda, into the processes for discussion etc." - From the May 29 2013 AGMAG Minutes: "ABA Make use of spears and atlatls illegal for hunting big game in AB." June 18, 2012 - Watson raises the issue at an ABA exec mtg. Proposed: "At the ABA AGM March 29 2014 in Lethbridge we will bring this up for discussion and give everyone the background info etc and see what the members think." Where would you like to insert your conspiracy theory about a collusion between ESRD and the ABA, Lefty? Any fool can see that the Pres of the ABA, Brent Watson, initiated the proposal to make spears and atlatls illegal to hunt big game with. Although your loyalty to the ABA is admirable, your argument/excuse is invalid. |
This is a part that cannot be ignored below, yes the ABA brought up the discussion. Because some ABA members started the discussion.
"SRD Enforcement will bring issue back to Dec AGMAG with proposal to prohibit hunting with spears. Was no opposition from groups at AGMAG." This prohibition talk was initiated by SRD, many if not all groups at AGMAG did not show opposition. Again this is what I was told and the statement above supports that. Again this "prohibition" talk doesn't fall in line with my personal thinking, I just think there is more to the story than the ABA being "evil". Again none of us were at the talks. Like I said I am a brand new member of the ABA, only been a member for 1 year and I joined after this mess...so I have no idea what was or wasn't communicated to the members. My point being, you don't like what an organization brings to the table, join it! For $35 dollars you can get involved and inject your opinion into things....that's what I did. If you want to judge an organization based on one action that has done a lot of good not for just bow hunters but all hunters in Alberta then that's your prerogative. The email above is how ONE individual feels on the ABA executive, not how ALL members feel. Notice the use of "I" not "we" in the email posted above. I assume that several of you are members of the Alberta Atlatl Association? LC |
Cool
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LC |
:D Wow ...didnt even know there was an Alberta Atlatl Association...web pages and all...
Again I didnt & dont know all the Particulars... Also it is obvious there are members of the Atatl following here commenting...some likely not even bowhunters..which is fine!!! and there will be no happy truce in disscussions here so we might as well drop it! I personally dont have a problem with Spear and Atlatl if the members proved it was viable as a hunting tool ...and hunted in a primitive weapon season and area... I am assuming that somewhere down the line that Spear and Atlatl was being compared to and maybe classed in archery and the archery season... That would indeed stir the hornets nest... Perhaps if the Spear and Atlatl following made themselves a little bit more well known and formed a stronger association and did somthing about it we wouldnt be talking about it... I will support ABA in their decsion as they have done so much for bowhunters and post their sucess as an strong association below... Some of ABA's success with assisting Bowhunting in Alberta Bowhunter education program. Liability insurance for clubs and individuals through Federation of Canadian Archers. Internationally Acclamed Game Awards Program for members. 3D Sanctioned Shoot program/Provincial Championship. Hunting For Tomorrow Foundation participating member. Resolution process to lobby government to improve and retain bowhunting regulations. Successes include: Allow the use of camo clothing (1969). Allow the use of aluminum arrows (1970). Legalized bowfishing. Black bear baiting. Archery pre-season province wide (1976/77). Antelope archery season (1976/77). 410 and 408 Bighorn sheep season. Antlerless deer tags in 212 and 248. Antlerless elk tags in 212. Archery pre-season for elk (not requiring a draw). Archery only areas around Edmonton and Calgary (1975). Lobbied with other user groups for these seasons, even though they are not archery-only: Mountain Goat season. Primitive Weapons area in 357 (Saskatoon Mtn.) Cow moose draw in 357. Sunday Hunting in more WMU's Active with user groups North America wide to preserve bowhunting rights. As you can see, everything you now do as a bowhunter in Alberta, you can attribute to the hard work of the Alberta Bowhunters Association. We are collaborating with other user groups and organizations to further those opportunities as much as possible. JOIN NOW to support those efforts http://www.bowhunters.ca/About_Us.html Neil |
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Dmcbride, assuming you are part of the Alberta Atlatl group....what are the rumblings from that organization?
LC |
Biggest group(rifle hunters), pick on smaller group(bow hunters), that group, picks on even smaller group(spear chuckers)....from the sidelines, this is how it appears. If there is even a sliver of truth to this, not classy...I get trying to protect your specific interest and everything, but at what cost? Again, this is how it looks from the sidelines and things arnt always as they appear.
Signed Someone without a vested interest in any group. Carry on. |
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