This is a pretty broad statement to make. The question that pops to mind is where you got your information that "the Metis themselves know they don't have the right to hunt all of Alberta". I know, I should google it and find it myself. Regardless, I think that this was discussed in R. v. Powley. The Alberta government is trying to prove here weren't Metis people throughout the whole province and therefore the gov't can in effect restrict or designate where the Metis can or cannot hunt. As far as " asking a judge to give them that right", I believe that this is also covered in s. 35(1) of the Constitution Act, 1982.

x2

Not metis myself but a great constructive post on a touchy topic.

I think mandatory harvest registration would also help in resource management

It should be the same for hunting as it is for fishing.
Indians do not need an Alberta Sportfishing Licence or WiN card for general sportfishing, however all other sportfishing regulations apply equally to all persons, including Indians. Indians are persons registered as Indians under the Indian Act.

One of my best friends of 32 years is full status. He has never hunted out of season. Has hunted every season except throughout his university years. 2 degrees. I have watched him pass up animal after animal and has never taken a "trophy." No sheep and lives beside a mountain with them. He likes wild meat and hunts for that only, never has taken more than 1 animal per season. He did get his first antelope last year. Fish & wildlife know him well
as he will call in or go to their office to report what he has harvested. He would be the first guy to call in any illegal activities. He has never used his
status to aide and abett any other hunter including myself. If i killed something illegally or by mistake he would absolutely expect me to be at F&W's offfice to report it, and i would. If i did not it would end our frienship. I believe this subject is a very sensitive issue to all sportsman and i am posting this in the hopes that we all keep in mind not every metis or status guy is bad. We all notice the bad drivers, not the good ones. He himself believes that his "people" are very often their own worst enemy. We have many discussions about this and like most of the people on this forum, would like things to be equal across the board. He believes what is fair is not having to buy tags etc. We both agree
that the biggest problem with the native and metis hunting is the lack
of stats for harvest #'s making things so difficult for the game management
people. I do have cree in my own veins and i hope and pray that metis hunting is abolished completely. I am very proud of my high income tax paying
friend.

sent to me by my native friend, a bit long but....
 

Chief Clarence Louie Osoyoos BC speaking in Northern Alberta :



Speaking to a large aboriginal conference and some of the attendees, including a few who hold high office, have straggled in.

'I can't stand people who are late, he says into the microphone. Indian Time doesn't cut it. '
Some giggle, but no one is quite sure how far he is going to go. Just sit back and listen:

'My first rule for success is Show up on time.'
'My No. 2 rule for success is follow Rule No. 1.'
'If your life sucks, it's because you suck.'
'Quit your sniffling.'
'Join the real world. Go to school, or get a job.'
'Get off of welfare. Get off your butt.'

He pauses, seeming to gauge whether he dare, then does.
'People often say to me, How you doin'? Geez I'm working with Indians what do you think?'
Now they are openly laughing ... applauding. Clarence Louie is everything that was advertised and more.

'Our ancestors worked for a living, he says. So should you.'

He is, fortunately, aboriginal himself. If someone else stood up and said these things - the white columnist standing there with his mouth open, for example - you'd be seen as a racist. Instead, Chief Clarence Louie is seen, increasingly, as one of the most interesting and innovative native leaders in the country even though he avoids national politics.

He has come here to Fort McMurray because the aboriginal community needs, desperately, to start talking about economic development and what all this multibillion-dollar oil madness might mean,for good and for bad.

Clarence Louie is chief and CEO of the Osoyoos Band in British Columbia's South Okanagan. He is 44 years old, though he looks like he would have been an infant when he began his remarkable 20-year-run as chief. He took a band that had been declared bankrupt and taken over by Indian Affairs and he has turned in into an inspiration.

In 2000, the band set a goal of becoming self-sufficient in five years. They're there.

The Osoyoos, 432 strong, own, among other things, a vineyard, a winery, a golf course and a tourist resort, and they are partners in the Baldy Mountain ski development. They have more businesses per capita than any other first nation in Canada.

There are not only enough jobs for everyone, there are so many jobs being created that there are now members of 13 other tribal communities working for the Osoyoos. The little band contributes $40-million a year to the area economy.

Chief Louie is tough. He is as proud of the fact that his band fires its own people as well as hires them. He has his mottos posted throughout the Rez. He believes there is no such thing as consensus, that there will always be those who disagree. And, he says, he is milquetoast compared to his own mother when it comes to how today's lazy aboriginal youth, almost exclusively male, should be dealt with.

Rent a plane, she told him, and fly them all to Iraq. Dump'em off and all the ones who make it back are keepers. Right on, Mom.
The message he has brought here to the Chipewyan, Dene and Cree who live around the oil sands is equally direct: 'Get involved, create jobs and meaningful jobs, not just window dressing for the oil companies.'

'The biggest employer,' he says, 'shouldn't be the band office.'

He also says the time has come to get over it. 'No more whining about 100-year-old failed experiments.' 'No foolishly looking to the Queen to protect rights.'

Louie says aboriginals here and along the Mackenzie Valley should not look at any sharing in development as rocking-chair money but as investment opportunity to create sustainable businesses. He wants them to move beyond entry-level jobs to real jobs they earn all the way to the boardrooms. He wants to see business manners develop: showing up on time, working extra hours. The business lunch, he says, should be drive through, and then right back at it.

'You're going to lose your language and culture faster in poverty than you will in economic development', he says to those who say he is ignoring tradition.

Tough talk, at times shocking talk given the audience, but on this day in this community, they took it and, judging by the response, they loved it.

Eighty per cent like what I have to say, Louie says, twenty per cent don't. I always say to the 20 per cent, 'Get over it.' 'Chances are you're never going to see me again and I'm never going to see you again.' 'Get some counselling.'

The first step, he says, is all about leadership. He prides himself on being a stay-home chief who looks after the potholes in his own backyard and wastes no time running around fighting 100-year-old battles.

'The biggest challenge will be how you treat your own people.'

'Blaming government? That time is over.'

I woudl like to know something. WHERE....when you put that comment up, were the "borderline racist comments"? I read every post before yours and there was nothing racist or even borderline. That's what always happens...someone mentions native/Metis hunting and boom, uh oh, we're all being racist.

The ones in the article? The ones who's lawyer asked the judge

i sure do love it when this topic is brought up you can see peoples real colours. I have friend that is native he buys his tags and fishing lic every year we go fishing he dosent even keep fish just likes the sport in it and only shoots what he has tags for in season but with that said i also know of a meti that hunts year round will shoot 3 or 4 mule bucks till he gets the one he wants and has been known to trade moose for beef (hes also a farmer). I know for a fact the that the fish cops have talked with him and its been denide and left at that. so we cant put all of them in the same group as them beeing poachers but i agree that these rights need to be taken away so that are young ones have the same chance to hunt the way we do now

This thread should be a fair bit different from the previous threads on this subject.

As 209X50 pointed out with the article on the court proceedings Alberta Metis DO NOT presently have the Alberta gov'ts. blessing on "hunt anywhere any time".

The court decision may change things but the position of the Alberta Gov't right now (If I have this right) is that anyone, of any ethnic background (besides treaty card Indians) can get a free permit to take a specified animal for subsistence if they can show they really need it.

im tasting blood from biting my lip so hard on this one. ill try to do this as politely as possible, but i make no promises.

i had the misfortune of actually going out bowhunting with one of the 2 guys initiating the court case. i really didnt know him, but he was a neighbour of my uncle. my uncle asked if he could come along for the day, an i agreed. i wish i hadnt. the whole drive out he professed to me to be a great accomplished hunter and a trophy collecting machine. on the drive, he smoked non-stop. did i mention we were going bowhunting? you know....like getting close may matter? anyway. as we approached the pasture we were heading for, there were a couple of nice mule bucks in the ditch along the road. he was screaming to stop the truck as we pulled alongside. when the deer hopped the fence and bounded into the field, he drew his bow back and was going to shoot at them running at 50 yards. i was yelling form the back seat "dont be a "*&*&% idiot". he didnt shoot, but blamed me for scaring them away. i was giving ol unc the hairy eyeball and it wasnt even legal light yet. without too many long details, i didnt see an infraction that day, but a few were attempted until i reminded him of the rules. needless to say, i did not go out with the guy again. when my uncle asked if he could come with to the mighty whitetail land up north i told him ABSOLUTELY NO WAY! and if i ever found out he took him there behind my back id boot him in the nuts so hard my cousins would be sterile.
so anyway, when the metis hunting thing took effect, he and his kid immediatley went on a SUBSISTENCE killing spree that resulted in a couple of 400 class bull elk from suffield and a few big mule bucks in the 190 range. funny how the self proclaimed trophy hunter who had never taken a legit trophy size animal (yes i agree....eye of the beholder) is all of a sudden a meat hunter like his anscestors but happens to like his meat with giant antlers.
i usually try hard not to make personal statements about others when i post here, but this guy is a sloth in every way. he doesnt give a crap about way of life or subsistence tradition....he is just looking for a way to kill trophy animals. thats it! 209 is absolutely right in what he said. these two know exactly what they are entitled to and are looking to get themselves an advantage.
mods, if this post is too offensive and gets removed, i apologize and understand. the thread on herdbull/whitetailer/chris was way more extensive than this, and in my opinion, this guy is at least as offensive as what he did.

and before anyone asks why i didnt report the activities i saw that day, its because i stopped him from doing something illegal before he did it. believe me, had i known, i may have been temtped to let him follow through just so i could report him.

I'm proud to be white.

I am able to afford my hunting tags.

I am glad I don't have to hunt for my food. I choose to.

I work, make money and spend it as I feel I should.

I don't ask anyone for special treatment, just fair treatment.

And I'm happy.

Well said!:)

Huntinstuff I agree totally with your statement.I also want nothing more or less than to be treated equally to everyone else.

This one will get shut down like all the rest.. Just when we get into what really has to be said it will fall into the a bullsh!t race thread and be put on ice..

But before it does I have one thing to say,,,


I am a man I deserve the right to kill my food at my choice of time or place what the ?? does my origin have to do with my right to eat ????

My father has status, I guess that makes me an indian, or metis, or whatever you want to call me. Both of us pay our taxes, work for a living and hunt with apropriate tags in the designated season. I guess I was the first to say that in this particular thread. Before anybody gets their hate on, remember there are hard working and lay people of all colors.
Now, to vent. The handouts, yes... I said it, handouts that status indians and metis have and seek are absurd. So what if your ancestors were traeted poorly, its time to get over it instead of feeling sorry and blaming your troubles on 100 year old treaty failures. All persons of all origins had the right to hunt and fish freely at one time. You think millions of people around the world are not being treated poorly as you read this, who have no opportunity to go to school or even work beyond tending their sparse crops. I hate to stereo type, but as Chief Louie said... you are a bunch of sniffling lazy people (people being the persons who dont seem to want to work to better their situation and fellow man). Before you put a racist stake in my heart, this is coming from one of those supposed snifflers. The elders I used to know, and respect, have little to nothing good to say about todays aboriginal youth. Its to bad the people who choose to gain an education, like so many in all walks of life, are now using it to exploit freebies and manipulate the laws instead of educate their people and give a hand to those who cant help themselves. Its cheaper now and better PR for the gov't to pay them off instead of saying no, so thats what they do.
The world is not as it was 100 years ago, stop trying to gain rights as if it was. Did you know there is still a law that you will get a horse and a gun when you are let out of jail in Alberta. If we pay all our criminals thousands of dollars for an outdated rule some leech dug out of some ancient legal document, it would be a public outrage. I dont have the copy of the above mentioned agreement of a horse and wagon, but that should be an outrage also . I am not racist, or prejiduce, only biased favoring those who choose to help themselves by working for what they want, I could care less what colour or religion you are. If anybody is wondering, I am Mi`kmaq from the gaspe, French, Scottish and Ukranian, and it shouldnt matter. I am proud of who I am, and where I live, and I know I have it good. Pull your heads out of your arses and have a look at how great our country is, not how to exploit it. If you dont like my opinion, well, I am entitled to my freedom of speech just as you are.

It's a sad situation when wanting every Canadian to be equal under the law is considered racist.Unfortunately that is the situation that exists in Canada today.

Perfectly said.....

:thinking-006:Exactly, pulling that racism card is getting real old fast.

Sustinence hunting
 

A friend of mine knows a guy who hunts for sustinence. But really he hunts with the season, he takes non-trophy animals, simply put he hunts for meat in the freezer. He's a 1/2 blooded Cree, holds a Gov't job protecting our Rights & Freedoms so we can enjoy hunting year after year. He never hunts out of season, never shoots more than he needs and never wastes what he shoots. The only thing he honestly does'nt do that the white man has to is buy tags/licences. He does'nt drink or do drugs, he has a family and a nice house and with his hard earned money buys the toys that he wants so he and his family can enjoy the outdoors with him.
I have personally met a few non-aboriginal hunters that to me fit the poacher type category, so who's worse here?

It's not a case of "whose worse",it's a case of our laws allowing some people to be exempt from the regulations,simply because of their race.It's a case of legislated racism.

Either way I'm done with this thread, I read the same ***** on Canadian Gunnutz and this topic comes up way too often to make any difference to anyone other than stir up anger & resentment.
I'm all for the aboriginals who choose to express thier rights.
I am not for those aboriginals who choose to take advantage of ther given right and exploit it.

you finished your comment off with exactly the point of the thread. Abuse of the system steals from all of us. Whether legal or not, Abuse is abuse.

Just one more thing whitey did wrong, if it wasn't for "whitey" their would be no "metis"!!!!!! :thinking-006:

yup....thats my biggest issue with metis claiming heritage and rights. metis did not exist until AFTER white people came to north america. in reality if native indians are first nations, then whites would be second, and metis third nations. gimme a break! why cant everyone be treated equal???

This topic ,
 

lf its not to much trouble the mods should print out this thread in its entirety and ship it off to Harper/ Stelmac and their teams.

Exactly, no matter where I see these threads they always end up with someone claiming racism or that non natives are jealous. All most of us want is for the fish and game be managed for future generations. You don't realize how fast it can be gone, I've seen populations of Atlantic salmon disappear from poaching and from natives. The poachers we can report and cut nets, there's nothing we can do about the natives in the fish ladders with pitch forks.

Back in Nova Scotia this year we had most of our salmon rivers closed because there's not enough salmon returning to support a native fishery, so the only way the natives would give up rights to fish on those rivers is if DFO would close the catch and release fisheries. Most of my favorite rivers are closed and probably will never open again as long as there are native treaty rights and now there are less people on the rivers to monitor them which means increase in poaching. It all started a few years ago when a CO tried to lay charges on an Indian for jigging salmon from a bridge.

NO ONE should be given special hunting rights, simply because our fish and wildlife resources can not sustain the continuous onslaught of inconsiderate, self centered idiots that think the world owes them everything. This is not rocket science people. Everyone, indians included should have to use the draw and licensing sytem. Why are indians an metis more equal than everyone else? This crap has created nothing but problems.:fighting0074:

While I do applaud your buddies buddy for his efforts at conservation when he has the card giving him all the power to work against wildlife sustainability, I don't think what he is doing can be called sustinence hunting. To me it sounds like with all the toys he manages to buy, the nice home he has purchased and lives in, he can probably afford to buy meat at the store. I don't think this can be called for sustinence, I expect he is doing it because he enjoys the meat, and perhaps the rewards that come with doing your own processing. If this is the case, should he not be purchasing tags like most of us are required to do, and while doing so supporting wildlife conservation with his tag purchases?

Has anyone on this thread studied pre-confederation history? Does anyone know what the English (our ancestors) did to the natives of their own country? Well it was our ancestors and ourselves to blame for the social and finanicial problems that the aboriginals had, and have. I'm not going to give a history lessen here but let me say the aboriginals deserve everything that was given to them, and I hope the hell it last's another 500 years. Women, men and children were raped, murdered and their houses burned down. Disease like influeneza, small pocks and such were brought over from the Atlantic where thousands of natives died. This whet on for hundreds of years and recently court cases were settled because of sexual abuse in Catholic schools that were operated by the church and government. What I just mentioned is only the tip of the iceberg. Today we live in a overpopulated country, polluted and half destroyed by us, the "White Man". While the Aboriginals are scattered all over this country on reservations some can sit back and say like this "bone head" (caper 28) that the natives are taking all of our salmon. The natives lived in harmony with nature, with other aboriginal nations, and when the French arrived, in harmony with them, hence the conception of the Metis. Yes Caper 28 you are a bigot and some others on this thread!

the strongest statement in there flint is overpopulation. before europeans came here there was maybe a few hundred thousand natives? i dunno, i couldnt find the census report. today with a population well over 30 million, that is the biggest reason for changes to the environment..... farming, forestry yada yada to satisfy demands of an ever growing human population. canada has nowhere near the population density of other places in the world, and i for one appreciate that fact very much.

i think it was the movie "the matrix" that pointed out how a virus depletes and destroys everything in its environment in its quest to reproduce and then when there is nothing left moves on to a new environment. the other organism that does this is humans. sadly thats kinda true.