Curious, I don't know much about horses in the wild so bear with me...

Wild is wild, feral is defined as domestic returned to the wild. How does one differentiate between the two? Is there a way to tell? Are there any wild horses left in Alberta?

Exactly! One of the biggest promoters of horse eradication has a hunting show and packs a video camera everywhere with him and I asked many times for him to show the true damage but it was never done. Funny how that works.

A horse is a horse ofcourse ofcourse.

;) Couldn't resist.

Personally I think we've already screwed the environment to the point where it is what it is. Besides the horses:

1) Those beavers in Argentina. My favorite story :)

2) Moose in Newfoundland.

3) Those giant bug things that are sitting on every surface in parts of BC.

4) Raccoons in Newfoundland. Yes they are starting to show up.

5) Those Chinese whatchamacallit fish in the reservoirs of Ontario.

Basically we're a bunch of screw ups. I say cull the horses now and then, but otherwise leave them be.

Have you walk or flown the area by helicopter that Morgantini discusses in his study? I have. And seen the damage.

There never have been any wild horses in Alberta since well before the ice age. Anything that exists now is feral, descendants from domestic in stock

Flown no.

And you have personal pics of the epic chopper ride ?

Well, you go tell Ole Bill to get his arse in the saddle and go round up his stock that he left behind on the Eastern Slopes of Alberta.

X2

I'd love to go talk to old Bill but he passed long before the horses were blamed for everything!!

More comments from AOs love seat.

I've walked, rode( both horse back and atv)and flown just about every bit realestate from the Ghost to Hwy 16 and out to hwy 22 and have spent hundreds of days per year in the field and I'd love for you to come out at my expense and show me exactly where this huge damage is!!
The dog rib burn has some of if not the highest concentration of horses and there is very few places you can even tell the horses graze there if it wasn't for seeing the **** piles. So where is yours or Morgantini's visual documentation? Spend all the money to fly and document all this destruction but not one of you was smart enough to carry a camera? Hell of a study group all you are!!

i don't like feral horses ..But they are not doing all the damage its man that is doing all the damage grazing cattle in the forest reserves , oil and gas leasees. forestry and people out camping , quadding 4x4 litter everwhere we are way more desructive than feral horses

That's a fair point. If anyone should be shot, it's humans. Just sayin :sHa_shakeshout:

They are not feral horses, they are unicorns that are sad and have lost their horn.

Would anybody like to donate to my wild alligator project in Alberta? I think they are amazing animals and their ancestors lived here 62 million years ago... This means they have been here longer than you and you have no right to say they do not belong.

Is it possible some of his stock became feral?

yes or no answer, please.

why are the number of cows that free range the eastern slopes regulated in numbers?

that is an indication of overgrazing.......:)

A few photo's of my travels in horse country,

Horse Trap my Dad once used.
http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/u...e/IMG_0134.jpg

Dog Rib burn horses
http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/u...e/DSCF1599.jpg

Upper Tay River Horse(note the chewed down grass!!)
[img]http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/uu339/sheepguide/DSCF1659.jpg{/img]

Shed Hunting in the mid 90's when elk population were declining fast on the upper Dog Rib west of the th Ya Ha where large numbers of elk wintered on these south facing slopes! Notice the decimation that has caused the elk decline!!
http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/u...ide/sheds3.jpg

Spring Gap Lake Horse
http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/u...541280x853.jpg

Spring Jock Lake/ North Sask. herd. Man looks like that country is eaten right to the dirt!:sign0161:
http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/u...e/IMG_0917.jpg

Some one almost got this North Fork/Baseline stud but he got away. Again not the ultimate destruction of the forage!!
http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/u...853800x533.jpg

Headwaters of Swan Creek Horses again almost starving by the lack of feed!!
http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/u...532800x533.jpg

White tail bucks and wild horse feeding together at the Clearwater Ranger station airstip. But the do not graze together as some state!!
http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/u...e/IMG_1142.jpg

North Burnt Timber Horses. Snow to their knees and still grass showing.
http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/u...e/IMG_2297.jpg

I have chased elk behind Lynx creek, seen the herd of horses there. Camp/quad with friends in the hills behind Shunda creek, seen the herd of horses there too, their trails and piles of poop. Allthough it was cool to see the horses im not a fan of the herds being there for the only reason there has to be competion for food between the elk, deer and horses. Eradication by the government will never happen but controling the herds size seems like a pill most would swallow. Knock down the numbers how ever it can be done and let a few stay. Seems to me this is what Sheepguide is saying. Correct me if i am wrong but if the horses get the designation of heritage. They could never be touched after that wether it be caught and tamed so to speak and or culled. That wouldnt be good imo. I wish i could spend a lot more time in the foothills but i dont so here's a question for those that do, as far as predators go, wolf and bears. Do the horses have an advantage being in a group vs a momma and a calf/fawn? Seems like they are keeping their numbers up while the deer, moose and elk struggle.

for sure, just as with Brewsters, Jimmy Simpson, Rex Logan, Dewey Browning, the Natives that used to travel the west country and all the the other old timers and families out there that had horses in the west country. Like I said no on is arguing the fact that some of the horses are feral. Try reading the whole thread Nait. Im sure someone will help with the big words!

That is a major point. Horses fair way better with predators than do the wild ungulates. Some cougar have been found to target horses but as a whole horse kills are far less likely that deer elk and moose. Id be far happier spending the money on predator control than wiping out horse numbers as that just forces the predators that do target horses to target wildlife.
And yes there is competition but no one can show that this is hurting our wildlife in any way.

You really have no clue how to contribute to a thread do you? Show your reasoning. Back it with proof. Your comment mean nothing to the topic and only distract to show your ignorance! Good work Bud!!

Some more pics showing the horses of the west country and how they are affecting and damaging the areas they feed! Doesnt look to bad to me!!

Lower Tay River horse
http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps65ab39ae.jpg

Upper Tee Pee pole creek horse
http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/u...pse2cf33bf.jpg

Lower Pinto Creek foal.
http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps04e423de.jpg

Lower Tay River foal
http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps756ab312.jpg

Upper Tay horses
http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/u...psabfb5aca.jpg

Upper Bread Creek horse
http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps6c1abb25.jpg

Quite the debate going on here, nice pictures of all the feral horses. In all the pictures provided there is grass everywhere, but you have to realize that there is not much nutrients in it. Therefore with the competition for forage some critters are not going to fair to well compared to others. With more feral horses, you get less high nutrients forage for the other species. When one species thrives, another species pays for it. Elk herds have suffered dramatically over the years from this in a lot of places. Feral horses are not the only problem here, but defiantly don't help the situation.

some are feral ?

All those people left horses behind in the eastern slopes and you still cling to the thought that they're indigenous?

Sounds like the guy who put perch into the trout lakes is also putting horses in the mountains.....

Do you have photos in the same area other then the one where you saw other wildlife? I haven't covered near the ground you have but have noticed areas where we have seen feral horses or sign we don't see anything else.

Never be able to eradicate them but something needs to be done to manage them.

All my wildlife pics and horse pics are from the same areas You may not always see them at the exact moment together but at times you do and you for sure see them feeding in the exact same spots at different times. I actually see most of my wildlife feeding in the areas that the horses have eaten down as these are the areas of the most new forage. The areas that have no horse feeding actually have far less new growth and alot of old dead standing forage. More so than in the pics.

Where are the Elk in this picture?

Just out of frame Nait!!

But ya I see wildlife in the same areas that them horses frequent.

Jock Lake/NorthSask Elk
http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/u...531280x853.jpg
http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/u...441280x853.jpg


Burnt timber Mule deer
http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/u...853800x533.jpg

Upper Tay Whitetail
http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/u...e/IMG_1107.jpg

Swan Creek whitetails
http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/u...e/DSCN0835.jpg

Ram River Forks Elk
http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/u...e/IMG_0906.jpg

Gap Lake Whitetail
http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/u...e/IMG_0908.jpg

Elk Creek Bull
http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/u...s/DSCN2356.jpg

Upper Seven mile elk
http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/u...s/DSCN2367.jpg

Lower Tay River moose
http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/u...s/DSCN2363.jpg