I nearly died that day. Could have broken my neck.

This is my understanding as well. I didn’t know Dan runs it though.

Yeah, not sure. He has been charging quite a bit for these skinners. Not sure what the deal is. The other one he dropped a few weeks ago sold quicker than this one and I feel like it was $435, but could be mistaken. S35VN and rosewood though:

https://i.postimg.cc/sjQL0Wgs/B1024-...561-DD6-DB.jpg

In addition to a lot of “hype”, I love “balanced” steels (with Cruware probably being the favourite, maybe…). This one seems to hit that spot and it’s stainless. What’s not to like? Mostly probably just to satisfy my interest and put a checkmark there. I am also only looking at knives that I know I could easily move, just in case. We will see what happens. Thinking to talk to Dan about it as well.

I talked to Phil last summer-ish (maybe fall?). He said there is nothing until this coming October-November, at the earliest. He is probably the only guy that I regret not getting a knife (or a few) from when I could. I’d say the hardest knives to find on the secondary too: they just never pop up and when they do, they are gone before a guy sees it.

It’s not just D2, really. Practically any steel will cut longer sharpened to 400-600 grit. It won’t be as “sharp” as it can be, but you will likely never notice the difference (definitely not in the field).

Phil Wilson’s thoughts on sharpening:

http://seamountknifeworks.com/js/web.../shapening.pdf

I’m giving some serious thought to building a small shop. Buying the equipment and building my own custom knives. Hopefully in a couple years.

Can’t edit the previous post anymore, but here is a couple articles from knifesteelnerds on edge retention and sharpening is discussed to some degree:

Maximizing Edge Retention – What CATRA Reveals about the Optimum Edge

Testing the Edge Retention of 48 Knife Steels (under knife design and sharpening, but the entire article is a good read)

As a whole, knifesteelnerds is a great site to explore for interested readers and the author knows more about steel than anyone here, I would think.

Another article that would probably be interesting to most in regards to various steel qualities: Knife Steels Rated by a Metallurgist – Toughness, Edge Retention, and Corrosion Resistance

An interesting thread about edge retention of various steels on Bladeforums: Ranking of Steels in Categories based on Edge Retention cutting 5/8" rope

And one more from Spiderco forums; the title is a bit misleading since it is more than just MagnaCut, and it may seem like a long and tedious read, but I enjoyed it and I am sure some others will as well: CPM MagnaCut | Edge Performance

Well that blows a couple of theories out of the water. What is the reason people feel a more obtuse angle holds an edge better I wonder?

^ Not sure. Maybe because they think that a sharper edge would “wear out” faster, ie this (ignoring the last part of the last sentence):

There was a difference in final thickness of the apex of the edge after the knives were run through the CATRA test. The 20° edge was about 23 microns after the test, 34 degrees led to about 19-20 microns, and the 50° were around 16-17 microns. All of these images are of the ingot 154CM steel. So it appears that with a lower angle edge it can wear down to a larger apex and still maintain better cutting ability than a higher angle edge.

And the accompanying photos:

https://i.postimg.cc/jxvDsfMf/822-D0...51850-F634.jpg

Along with chipping and other inevitable edge damage that affects “sharpness” as much as edge retention properties alone. Kind of intuitive-counterintuitive, lol.

Also, when it comes to the “edge wear”, I found that people often mix up the retention qualities and toughness of steels, or think of one but not the other. In real world applications, you need to think of both working together to find that optimal performance for any given task. That is why very high edge retention steels could be great for skinning (in the right hands), for example, but a poorer choice for an “all-around” knife, or, worse yet, a boning knife. In the end, “staying sharp” or “cutting ability” (not sure is I am expressing correctly what I am trying to say, lol) will depend on edge retention, as well as on chipping or/and rolling of that edge. Hence, there are different steels and angles that are considered to be optimal for certain tasks but not the others. There is a word or a term for what I am trying to say, but I can’t place it at the moment, lol.

Edit: edge stability to term I was looking for. Here for the readers: What is Edge Stability?. For “partial readers”, lol, from the summary:

Thin, low angle, sharp edges cut better than heavier edges. Having such thin edges means that the microstructure-level properties are very important for the edge behavior. High hardness is necessary to avoid edge rolling. The carbide structure is also significant as smaller carbides and a smaller volume fraction of carbides leads to higher toughness for better resistance to chipping and also lower possibility of carbide pullout in sharpening. Therefore to maximize “edge stability” a combination of high hardness with small carbides and a small volume fraction of carbides is required. With steels that have a large volume fraction of large carbides the knife must be given a more obtuse edge angle to achieve “stability” and therefore avoid micro-chipping.

Best Skinning Knife for $200 or Less
 

Crazy price on the pro skinners, that’s as much as I paid for all the bells and whistles on my Crotts knives including the mammoth ivory. Not a blade shape I would consider buying either but to each their own. Charge what the market can bear and it sold quick so…

I would still recommend hopping on Phil’s list, as we all know a year goes quick. I would love to have one of his hunting knives but they aren’t the style I prefer and even though I know they would cut longer and with less effort I can’t justify it. I can only think of a couple that I’ve seen on the secondary market and they go almost instantly. His wait is relatively long but he only builds a few a year and they’re ridiculously good. If I was buying one of his hunting knives it would be something like this


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...63977860f2.jpg




Sharpening is the next logical progression to this thread. If you can’t put a consistent, quality edge on any knife it’s going to be a disappointment. I also feel if it’s not something that can be done quickly and the user knows success is guaranteed it’s going to be a chore and cause a certain amount of stress which from my experience leads to using an edge longer then it should be which is less satisfying, more dangerous and increases the time taken to restore the edge when you do sharpen it.
I can remember a time when a factory edge was the best edge my knives ever saw. I would happily use the factory edge until it was dull and what I put back on the knife was sub par. Now I’ll put an edge on a brand new knife because I know it’ll cut better and last longer and be a better refined, sharper apex then factory.
I prefer a 8” DMT in course/fine with a base. I do the majority of the grinding on the course side, at least until the bevels are consistent and true and the apex is shaving. I then go onto the fine side and refine the edge slightly with a few passes. I then put some 5 micron diamond lapping paste on a piece of A4 printer paper and strop on it against a stone countertop. I make two or three passes on each side of the strop away from the edge. I may then go back to the DMT fine for another edge leading pass or two, back to the strop etc until I’m happy. I don’t go to far because it’ll continue to feel sharper but long term cutting performance seems to suffer.

Some steels will develop a burr, some won’t and some create a very stubborn burr that require more work to remove and some care not to form. I’ve found any of the “S??v”series steels to develop the worst burrs.

There are some things I think would help anyone trying to freehand sharpen and I’ll try and organise my thoughts.

Brand new the DMT stones suck. They aren’t consistent and you will not get a usable scratch pattern and won’t be able to actually sharpen anything. They must be broken in and you’ll only frustrate yourself if you try to put a keen edge on a knife with one before it’s broken in. The diamond can also be ripped from the stone if you use to much pressure so care must be taken not to use to push to hard thinking your expediting the break in procedure. Get some knives that need bevels set or chips ground out and make a few hundred passes on the new stone to get the media consistent. I find water works to suspend the swarf but I prefer spit every time I’m sharpening.
Pressure is a big deal. For conditioning the stone or the initial rough grinding on a knife I would say most steels and knives get approx the weight of the knife and a little bit of my hand. By the time the apex is nearly refined, even on the course side it’ll be approx the weight of the knife, maybe a little less. On the fine side of the stone about the amount of pressure you shave your face with, probably less then the weight of the knife. The last few strokes your going to attempt to just contact the steel on the stone. In other words, your floating the knives weight. You might think your cutting faster with more pressure but in reality your wrecking the apex, possibly the stone. Your more likely to form a burr and you will add time to the sharpening experience and if taken to far, eliminate the chance at a keen edge. Let’s say your sharpening a 9” filleting knife. If your deflecting the blade your using WAY to much pressure.

Watch out for wire edges. They seem sharp (because they are) but they’ll fold or break off with minimal use and the knife will be dull again.

I’m not going to drag up links right now but there are many pages of data on the web about how the apex is actually formed, photos of the apex with microscopes, how the sharpening media cuts or burnishes the edge etc. If you read them you can get an idea of what’s happening and you’ll have a better chance of getting the edge you actually want. I’ll try and find some when I’ve got more time.
You need to get a process of sharpening that works for you. Being as we all do everything differently I can’t say what that will be but I’ll explain mine.
I put the stone perpendicular in front of me on a counter or desk and at a slight angle like this;

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...29f9fabfb3.jpg




I sit down when I’m doing this and start the knife on the top, right corner of the stone and I pull the knife down and to the left. I slide to the left a little before I start to draw the knife down so the base of the blade sees the correct amount of grinding. As I come up toward the tip you have to raise your hand slightly to maintain consistent bevels. Through the whole thing I can feel the bevel riding on the stone and can adjust as required. Each steel also has a feel against the stone and I’m to a point where I can feel if it’s cutting or skating on the stone. If the bevel is flat against the stone. If the amount of pressure is correct or not and if the bevel is consistent and also when I’m sharpened all the way to the apex. I then flip the knife over and repeat working from left to right but I don’t change the angle of the stone relative to my body very much.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...09f2349c6e.jpg




I don’t intentionally create a burr on the off side of the blade but if one forms that’s fine. When I’m close I can usually feel the change in the way the blade feels on the steel but I will visually check that the bevel is true and sharpened all the way to the apex before switching sides. If your in doubt, paint the bevel with some sharpie and you’ll see what’s happening.
I like to test the edge by shaving my arm and specifically listening for a specific sound and watching the way it pops the hair. I’ll also slice and push cut paper with and across the grain to see if it grabs, rips or slices cleanly and I’ll feel the edge with my thumb for a keen, toothy edge. I’ll also look at the apex with some light on it and see if I can see any flat spots or burr.
I’ve found there is a trap where refining the edge more increases its hair whittling keenness but the edge loses its bite in the real world. If I spend some time to further refine the edge they’ll treetop hair off my arm and get scary sharp but seem to lose their bite as soon as they loose the keenness off the apex. Initially, straight off the stone it seems like an improvement and it’s great for impressing people when they first check how sharp the knife is but in the real world it’s not as effective as a properly apexed, course edge. Now that said, I haven’t tried a highly refined edge on game for many years and it’s possible it would work better now that my sharpening skills have improved like they have.
It takes a bit of practice to do well at this freehand but it’s worth figuring out because once you do it’ll be a skill you use for the rest of your life. It’s seriously not that hard although it’s something you’ll continue to improve. The edges I put on knives ten years ago were very good but nothing compared to the edges I produce now. I wouldn’t say I’ve reached the pinnacle of my sharpening technique yet as I continue to get better and quicker.
I would also say, even on great steel, my sharpening time is less then five minutes. Typically only 1-3 minutes and part of that is a result of doing it as soon as I feel a knife loosing some of its cutting aggression and not having to grind as much steel. On something like my Phil Wilson filleting knife it takes about 3-5 strokes total due to it being .006” behind the edge. Keeping a consistent bevel helps a lot too, they’re not something I change very often.


I reprofiled my EDC and timed it just to see how long it would take. As I’m doing it freehand I don’t have a degrees “number” so this is where it started

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...2475a49988.jpg





And this is where it finished. It didn’t change a great deal but it did change and I’m going to start thinning this knife out because it’ll slice better with a thinner bevel and the M390 is still tough enough to withstand edge damage. If you notice the tip, I wasn’t raising my hand enough and I flattened the tip bevel out to much. It looks wrong now and will be something I have to blend in as I continue to reduce the bevel angle on subsequent reprofiles.




https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...61b979301e.jpg






Total time to reprofile was 7 minutes and total time until I was happy with the edge was 11 minutes.



I don’t have all the answers with sharpening but I’m happy to help where I can. I’ve got a pretty good system for myself and the edges I produce are proof. I know greybeard knows how good my edges were and they’re much better now. The rest of you will just have to go on blind faith or ignore me.

What angle do you try and sharpen at?

I go about it differently but also redo the factory edge. For this one I found the approximate angle that was factory set. In this case it was close to 20 degrees. I recut the entire angle with a 100 grit diamond stone and then progressed to 1000 from there. With the wicked edge, I should, in theory be able to maintain that angle and quickly touch up at any time. I finish on a strop and the edge is razor sharp.

https://i.imgur.com/WhFJQaC.jpg

Idk. I sharpen the angle it came at until I’ve assessed it’s performance. Typically I try and go as thin as possible without reducing strength to much that I induce edge damage for its typical use. From factory, if it chips or rolls I microbevel it. If it doesn’t show any damage, I will start to thin the bevel to increase slicing ability until I hit a point where it begins to get damaged under normal use.

I’m envious of your skill set.

Yeah, I don’t know why the prices are so high on those.

Funny thing about Fort Henry is that some knives would sell there quicker and for more than elsewhere (in some cases, elsewhere they simply wouldn’t sell at all). Their reputation is second to none though. And as long as people are happy. This is not to say that his prices are outrages on everything though. Just some things seem to be priced fairly high. On the other hand, since there are buyers, they are probably priced just right :)

I bought stuff there many times and would again, without hesitation, if I was looking for something.

Honestly, I think I would buy almost any knife he offers. Probably not the right approach, but… like I said, about the only guy I regret not buying a knife from.

He did put me on the list, we will see what happens.

Yes, very hard, next to impossible, to get on the secondary. There was a funny thing about a few years ago though. I tried to find it, but can’t at the moment; maybe I am looking on the wrong forum, which very well could be. Anyway, I think it was on bladeforums, where a guy posted 2 (!) of the Phil’s knifes, didn’t go out of his way, but described in good detail that the knives were brand knew and spent 20 years or whatever it was in the drawer and blah and blah and he was hoping to get what he paid for them then. The two knives sold in about a second for $420 (for the two) or something like that. Lol. You can assume I was a “little” salty that I saw it some long minutes later, haha.


Great write-up and tips on the sharpening process, Coil. I am with Pathfinder in his post write above this one.

I saw that post of those knives a few years back. I think it was on 24hourcampfire but I could be wrong. They went for an absolute song. Deal of the century to say the least. I’ve also seen his knives listed for an absolutely ridiculous price and they still sell.

^ Yeah, could be there, I don’t recall. Doesn’t matter I guess since you saw that too. Someone got a steal, literally. If I recall correctly, either that very thread grew into a funny one after, or there was another thread there about that sale thread, lol. As long as people are happy; the guy did get what he was hoping to get :)

And yep, stupid prices are more of a normal than blunders like that one.

This is hardly an answer to the angle question but this is what they look like. Most still have some lanolin on them so may have some weird shadows. It’s also hard to get a proper pic of them.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...b38534c8b4.jpg


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...4c604a5864.jpg



https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...7e45e4212f.jpg



https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...f499b524b0.jpg



https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...2ead9ba97d.jpg



https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...7f34668573.jpg



https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...867b0b569e.jpg



https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...e935ab3c36.jpg

^ Good stuff, mate!

Hope you don’t mind, I was going to take my knife out and snap a pic of the edge to show the grind, not the angle, but since you already did, I just want to “enlarge” one a bit and say that this is what the proper working edge should look like, not the shiny polished stuff that many thrive for (I used to do the same, looking for that “mirror” thing, which is a waste of time and counterproductive):

https://i.postimg.cc/7wKHwYhT/78-DF0...1166-A1-C2.jpg

I agree. Thanx for sharing...:)

This guy seems to have a different prospective.

https://youtu.be/4ZezMl9-SB8

^ From the second link in my post above, the one with lots of links:

So a 400 grit stone was chosen to use a finish which is more optimized for slicing without going crazy with something very coarse like 120 grit which is somewhat unlikely to be used by most knife owners. Unlike when slicing, with push cutting, a higher polish is superior because of the higher potential sharpness and the reduced resistance when pushing the knife through the material.

I honestly think the guy wielding the stone probably makes the biggest difference

^ Definitely makes a difference, lol. However, also in regards to diamond sharpeners: The Diamond Plate Progression

Forgot to say that the Epstien piece in the beginning of the video was quite good, lol.

Shifting gears again. I have used CorrosionX for years on my rifles. Best stuff I have found. It is also supposed to be non toxic and I find it great for knives as well.

I've been sharpening my 2 blade broadheads for 35 years and my knives for 50 years and after reading some of the posts on "how to sharpen", I'm feeling woefully inadequate and can't help but think I've been doing it wrong. But, I don't think the 18 moose, 23 elk and countless number of deer died from dull broadheads, so I will carry on.....:sHa_shakeshout:

Nice to know how others do their craft.

Looks like Clint C just posted some knives for sale here on the buy n sell

Just received the boning knife I ordered from Clint C for my son.

Really nice handle design and the blade profile towards the tip is a bit thicker to add strength when doing aggressive boning jobs.
Looks and feels great!
Cat

It's nice to see all these custom knives and the sharpening being discussed.

I'm going to step outside of the box and say the sharpest skinning blades are still very very old school. It's possible one of these blades might not cost you anything but a little time to learn how to make one, or you can buy them from stone blade makers. Learning to do basic flint knapping you can create all the skinning blades you need. It doesn't have to be pretty, just edged. There are quite a few obsidian knives online for sale between 150 to 1200.

Not flint. Obsidian blades are the best blades and obsidian is easy to work. A little dangerous working the rough stone though. Little micro blades can fly around. If an edge starts to dull just flake a new edge. Obsidian blades are still used today during major surgeries. The traditional blade styles are great but also the ulu style of blade is perfect for skinning.

Clint c sent me pics of my new knife . He just has to do the sheath. Wish I knew how to post pics

postimages.org

https://i.postimg.cc/p2B7j5Wp/68594-...-B1-F7-F58.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/3wLncpN1/F7-B50...9-D7157-AE.jpg