It is not percentage of the season length, it is a percentage of the harvest rate. Once a zone exceeds 15% success rate on archery hunts then it goes on draw. So if zone XXX set the healthy harvest at 100 mule deer, then they expect 85-90 of those mule deer will be taken by rifle and 10-15 will be taken by bow. Once they determine that more than 15 will be taken by bow, then it goes on draw. Add crossbows into the equation and more than likely some zone will go to draw for archery.

I think they are all concerned about the vast hordes of X-Bow hunters that would invade their private "Archery Only" seasons and domains. That hasn't happened in other jurisdictions, why would it happen here?

What would you say to the guy that wants to use a rifle in a dedicated archery season?

So basically when archers take 15% of the the allocated harvest it goes on draw just like when rifle hunters take 85% of the allocated harvest it goes on draw.

I would have no problem jumping that number to 18% instead of the 15% based on the number of bow hunters. It would also be very easy to adjust that 18% if more people were using archery (crossbows).

Now ,that's a rational question , don't you think ?

A rifle is a close range weapon like a Crossbow? Like it or not the same reasons used to justify a archery only season apply to the crossbow as well.

I really don't think the choice of weapon has anything to do with it. I will again emphasize it's all about harvest rates. There will be higher harvest with cross bows in bow season leading to more limited opportunities. You can't have one without the other. He was using hyperbole to make a point. He also made his point at the top of this page. It's all about harvest success rates. I follow that same train of thought.


Furthermore, if the majority wanted that then who am I to stand in the way? But I highly doubt that is the case

Not rational? or too tough to answer? The question came from your comment.

The opportunities granted to me by the ABA lobby just aren't satisfactory. Some of us want exactly what you have, using our choice of equipment. Pretty simple.

The description of “archery equipment” is in the legislation that limits the use of what can be employed during an archery only season. Certain things fit and others do not.

Don’t want to deflect from the OP any longer...do a quick search and find enough crossbow debate to fill your boots.

LC

Well, right now in Alberta crossbow are regulated the same way as a firearm. Would you argue that a 300 Rum and a shotgun slug gun have the same capabilities? Should they have separate seasons?

So the bow argument/justification is accepted and the crossbow argument/justification is not. The ABA will most likely not promote crossbow use in the archery season, so it will be up to crossbow user to organize and lobby for change.

Let’s not forget crossbows are alllowed in 248 where the portions of Strathcona County and Leduc County overlap the WMU. So there is opportunity to hunt the “bow zone” with a crossbow...if you choose not to, and prefer a shotgun then that’s your choice. I hunt that entire season with a bow...that’s my choice.

LC

All this talk of crossbows increasing the harvest success rate during a archery season is nothing but a myth. Lots of data supporting this.

" “Success rates for the 2002 Ohio hunting season show harvest percentage for crossbow hunters was 15%, with vertical bows (compound bow) also having the same success rate.” (page 10) This is from a report published by the Ohio Department of Natural Resources, Ortman, W.M. 2007. What it is telling us is that the limitations of the modern compound bow are the same as the hunter toting a modern crossbow into the woods. The hunting tool does not define the success rate of the hunter. The hunter’s skill does. "

More people doing it....more harvest. Hence why draw wait time are longer...yes crossbows work “better” in certain instances. To deny that is willful ignorance.

Like I said enjoy crossbows for 2 years before it’s all on draw...whatever makes you happy is what should happen right?

What about Wisconsin?

https://amp.jsonline.com/amp/1016497001

LC

Using success rates from totally different jurisdictions is moot. You can sit on a pile of grain in Ohio in your blind and fling arrows.
I have real world, first hand experiences (as I'm sure a lot of others do as well) where a crossbow would have got the job done where a compound did not. I'll base my opinion on that.

More people hunting in the archery season would mean more tag allocations for the archery season.

I'll agree with this yes- to meet the new demand. Meaning less rifle opportunities. I'm willing to bet there's only a handful of crossbow enthusiasts who don't grab a boom stick come rifle opener. So given the choice to these prospective cross bow users, would they vote for their xbows to join archery season if it meant less opportunity in rifle? My guess is a hearty NO.

Really? Are General season rifle folks cool with losing their allocations? They screamed bloody murder before :)

Hence my pie analogy.

LC

That is incorrect, there is a finite amount of tags allocated based on the harvest quota.

The statement you made is only correct if hunters are forced to pick their weapon and limited to that season. IE if you chose archery, then you are only allowed to hunt with archery in the archery season and no other season. It would then work since as you add to one user group you have that same loss for the other user group.

Attempting to change the regulations to allow 35# compound bows will also increase harvest. Otherwise what is the point? The point is inclusion is it not? I have difficulty holding on draw for more than a few minutes with my 70# bow but how long could I hold on draw with a 35# bow? Can't see any comparison using a 35# compound to that of a trad bow but then again the compound community has already beaten the original (trad) archers and made it their own.

Exactly...

LC

To be fair, one would be "voting" by buying a archery license or not.

Yes it give kids, the physically unable, and possibly some of the guys who can’t get permits the opportunity to archery hunt the archery only season.

Why is this a bad thing to you? Isn’t this what people want?

There is just no making anyone happy here apparently.

LC

If there are more people hunting during the archery season then there would be less hunting in the general season. It is pretty simple.

Isn't that what the ABA wants with the split draw? Less opportunity for all user groups?

I also support lowering the draw weight to get more involved in archery.

How so? I hunt all season all year at the moment. So can you and everyone else if they employ all available methods.

LC

Have you checked out what the Wild sheep Foundation has to offer?
Personally I have issues with all of them and you are right you never will be happy with 100 % of them. From what I have seen in Alberta none of them have made this province better to hunt in. They may have done some things but this province is so upside down it is sickening and that is because nobody has any power to really change the Gov'ts desicions in anything.
Find me an organization to get rid of the majority of the Bios in this province and I will be shelling my money out! Find me an organization that fights Native Harvests and helps set up way for predator control that is effective I will support them. Other than that it is all fluff and our animal numbers will decrease and we all will cry and whine when it takes ten years for a moose tag.. Oh wait that is already happening lol
Too many groups pulling in every direction for me to choose one to support. If they all came together to get funds to actually do something we might actually have a province worth hunting in again!

It's not a bad thing. You claim that compound bow technology and design is now so efficient that a 35# bow can be used. I don't even dispute that. More inclusion is good. It's the ABA's stance on crossbows I can't stomach. A 35# compound bow is much easier to use, accommodates people of modest stature, physical limitations and is apparently acceptable by the ABA while a crossbow is not. That is hypocrisy.

A few years ago I would have been with you in attempting to shut down any discourse about crossbows being included as archery equipment.

Not now, I was wrong.

I do as well. I just don't buy into the sky will fall if crossbows are allowed in the archery season.

Tag allocations can be adjusted to suit the number of users. As it is now archers are entitled to 15% of the allocation and then they can also hunt with a rifle or bow for a chance at the other 85% of the tag allocations. Pretty good gig for you and myself compared to the people who just rifle hunt.

Aren’t they just a special interest group centered around sheep? :)

Same argument made against the ABA but we don’t discriminate on species :)

LC