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-   -   Brian Knight legal defence fund (http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=30734)

hal53 04-02-2009 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rackmastr (Post 297311)
A guy can find 'loopholes' in any peice of legislation.

I work with the enforcement of over 90 peices of legislation.....I'm well enough versed in the use of force and the application of force. Just stating it for people who DONT understand and stating it quite plainly.

As I said, I am not stating my opinion on the matter, only stating facts and quoting legislation for people who may not know what is out there. There is nothing to 'agree' or disagree with my thoughts. These are not my thoughts, they are legislation and only that.....

Exactly.....I'm only stating the legislation is too vague....do you live in a City or Town??????.....I'm 13 km outside of a "small" town at 0140 Hrs. I can't expect an officer here in 2 minutes!!!!,...as I stated before there will be no "what if's"...no "yeah buts"......I will not call 911....if he's off my land before I catch up to him....my neighbor will be waiting.....hmmmmm????....wonder if that's why I can leave keys in vehicles etc.?????...and so can my neighbors.........sorry. but posted earlier they are "crackheads"....time to put the foot down and say ENOUGH....

Rackmastr 04-02-2009 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hal53 (Post 297329)
Exactly.....I'm only stating the legislation is too vague....do you live in a City or Town??????.....I'm 13 km outside of a "small" town at 0140 Hrs. I can't expect an officer here in 2 minutes!!!!,...as I stated before there will be no "what if's"...no "yeah buts"......I will not call 911....if he's off my land before I catch up to him....my neighbor will be waiting.....hmmmmm????....wonder if that's why I can leave keys in vehicles etc.?????...and so can my neighbors.........sorry. but posted earlier they are "crackheads"....time to put the foot down and say ENOUGH....

I live in a very small town.......and have lived in Calgary as well and all places in between....

Why that matters I'm not sure as I understand my rights and the laws that govern me in my professional life as well as my personal life.....

Rackmastr 04-02-2009 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denpacc (Post 297326)
Doesn't 38. 1 (b) "...if he does not strike or cause bodily harm to the trespasser." contradict what you just said about using as much force as necessary? Or am I totally misinterpreting what it states?

Cheers

No misinterpretation, however there is much more to the legislation than just that one section. As well, personal property laws and protection of a dwelling house also have different laws governing.

Either way....there it is....I deal with enough legislation all day that I'd rather discuss hunting stuff here.....but have at 'er....heh

hal53 04-02-2009 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rackmastr (Post 297347)
No misinterpretation, however there is much more to the legislation than just that one section. As well, personal property laws and protection of a dwelling house also have different laws governing.

Either way....there it is....I deal with enough legislation all day that I'd rather discuss hunting stuff here.....but have at 'er....heh

So at 0140 hrs., your wife hears a noise and wakes you up....you look out and 3 hoodlums are trying to steal your Quad.....you say to your wife....I wonder if they're armed???/...she says "oh probably only a knife honey...take the 7 iron.....oops!!!!!

denpacc 04-02-2009 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rackmastr (Post 297347)
No misinterpretation, however there is much more to the legislation than just that one section. As well, personal property laws and protection of a dwelling house also have different laws governing.

Either way....there it is....I deal with enough legislation all day that I'd rather discuss hunting stuff here.....but have at 'er....heh

Thanks for the explanation. I'd rather be discussing fishing or hunting too!! X10:wave:

Cheers

Rackmastr 04-02-2009 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hal53 (Post 297353)
So at 0140 hrs., your wife hears a noise and wakes you up....you look out and 3 hoodlums are trying to steal your Quad.....you say to your wife....I wonder if they're armed???/...she says "oh probably only a knife honey...take the 7 iron.....oops!!!!!

I'm not even going to respond to this statement of pure ignorance, other than to tell you that you have no idea what or how I would respond to a situation, and to insinuate such is pretty childish. Have a good one pal, and enjoy your discussion.

bigd 04-02-2009 06:03 PM

articulation
 
defend using no more force than is necessary...

This is the key phrase. KNIGHT used more force than was necessary according to what I have heard and read about this incident. The thieves were running away, did not present any weapons or threats thereof, they dropped what they had stolen and from what I understand, they were even off of his property at the time of the shooting.

I totally understand why KNIGHT did what he did, but he's going to have to do some pretty incredible articulation to the court to explain that his actions were 'reasonable' in the circumstances. In this situation, he may well have to articulate that he feared 'death or grievous bodily harm' to either himself or someone else in order to justify discharging a firearm at another person...

D

Jester 04-02-2009 06:05 PM

lol....I'm thinking that some of you guys would love a tee shirt with this on it..:lol:

http://img.printfection.com/14/108697/TkHg8.jpg

RandyBoBandy 04-02-2009 06:06 PM

I wonder if "just sick and f'n tired" is a good defence? I'd try that one:confused:

hal53 04-02-2009 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigd (Post 297370)
defend using no more force than is necessary...

This is the key phrase. KNIGHT used more force than was necessary according to what I have heard and read about this incident. The thieves were running away, did not present any weapons or threats thereof, they dropped what they had stolen and from what I understand, they were even off of his property at the time of the shooting.

I totally understand why KNIGHT did what he did, but he's going to have to do some pretty incredible articulation to the court to explain that his actions were 'reasonable' in the circumstances. In this situation, he may well have to articulate that he feared 'death or grievous bodily harm' to either himself or someone else in order to justify discharging a firearm at another person...

D

precisley!!!!....according to the laws...total agreement....

honda450 04-02-2009 06:06 PM

Hey boys it under General discussion........anything goes. Don't like it......... don't respond. Pretty simple eh.:lol::lol:

hal53 04-02-2009 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrLeahy (Post 297375)
I wonder if "just sick and f'n tired" is a good defence? I'd try that one:confused:

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

hal53 04-02-2009 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rackmastr (Post 297369)
I'm not even going to respond to this statement of pure ignorance, other than to tell you that you have no idea what or how I would respond to a situation, and to insinuate such is pretty childish. Have a good one pal, and enjoy your discussion.

Apparently I'm ignorant, childish and don't know you......hmmmm....I don't have a "7" iron either...."nuff said to you.....enjoy your life ...as it is...post again once you get something stolen TTYL

Rackmastr 04-02-2009 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hal53 (Post 297383)
Apparently I'm ignorant, childish and don't know you......hmmmm....I don't have a "7" iron either...."nuff said to you.....enjoy your life ...as it is...post again once you get something stolen TTYL

Again...keep assuming you have ANY idea that you know anything about me and whether I have had anything stolen, had my life threatened, had someone trespass at night on my property, etc.......lol

You DONT know me....so please dont play the 'what-if' game with someone you have no idea about. I come here posting legislation and fact and you want to turn it on me somehow? Its the Criminal Code buddy....I didnt write it, so I dont appreciate the insinuation that I somehow am the one here to defend it just cause I posted the information....lol

Back to enjoying my life! :lol:

James M 04-02-2009 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester (Post 297374)
lol....I'm thinking that some of you guys would love a tee shirt with this on it..:lol:

http://img.printfection.com/14/108697/TkHg8.jpg

Right here.

roadkill 04-02-2009 06:28 PM

I dunno. Someone tries to hurt me or mine and I'll beat the snot out of him with that bat. But if he wants my TV or car? he can have it. I don't own a single object that's worth anyone's life -- mine or that of some stupid miscreant. And I honestly can't think of an object anywhere that *is* worth all that.

Besides, the Criminal Code isn't going to change in favour of the home defence set any time soon. And if the bad guys were running away, it'll be pretty hard to convince a judge that he was afraid for his life.

It's all about appropriate force AFAIK...

honda450 04-02-2009 06:40 PM

:lol::lol:
Quote:

Originally Posted by roadkill (Post 297408)
I dunno. Someone tries to hurt me or mine and I'll beat the snot out of him with that bat. But if he wants my TV or car? he can have it. I don't own a single object that's worth anyone's life -- mine or that of some stupid miscreant. And I honestly can't think of an object anywhere that *is* worth all that.

Besides, the Criminal Code isn't going to change in favour of the home defence set any time soon. And if the bad guys were running away, it'll be pretty hard to convince a judge that he was afraid for his life.

It's all about appropriate force AFAIK...

BBFHWT:lol::lol::lol::lol:

BrownBear416 04-02-2009 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hal53 (Post 297353)
So at 0140 hrs., your wife hears a noise and wakes you up....you look out and 3 hoodlums are trying to steal your Quad.....you say to your wife....I wonder if they're armed???/...she says "oh probably only a knife honey...take the 7 iron.....oops!!!!!


Not getting in the middle of you and Racks Conversation but wanted to say I agree with the point you made pertaining to this thread..

I was watching defense TV last night and the scenarios they were doing just blew my mind. It is amazing how a simple robbery can and does turn violent and deadly fast.

I agree a 100% with the farmers actions..Criminals should not have ant rights.

6gunner 04-02-2009 07:34 PM

Killing someone in self defence is one thing. Rounding up a posse and shooting someone in the back is cowardly. People who use firearms for these purposes in Canada are ruining it for everyone. No wonder we have to jump through hoops to get a licence. Mr Knight should spend a lond time in jail.

Jester 04-02-2009 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrownBear416 (Post 297462)

I agree a 100% with the farmers actions..Criminals should not have ant rights.

And stealing a quad deserves getting shot in the back??

Dude...that may have been cool back in 1867 for horse thieves but really.:rolleye2:

Jester 04-02-2009 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6gunner (Post 297472)
Killing someone in self defence is one thing. Rounding up a posse and shooting someone in the back is cowardly. People who use firearms for these purposes in Canada are ruining it for everyone. No wonder we have to jump through hoops to get a licence. Mr Knight should spend a lond time in jail.

10-4....:wave:

hal53 04-02-2009 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester (Post 297480)
And stealing a quad deserves getting shot in the back??

Dude...that may have been cool back in 1867 for horse thieves but really.:rolleye2:

did u hear the real story????...he tried to steal the second guys truck as well!!!!!.....stay well and feel safe....the only point is....we don't have the RC's around the corner here...... only point I'm trying to make.....sorry Rack

Jester 04-02-2009 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hal53 (Post 297486)
did u hear the real story????...he tried to steal the second guys truck as well!!!!!.....stay well and feel safe....the only point is....we don't have the RC's around the corner here...... only point I'm trying to make.....sorry Rack

Quad...Truck...Boat....Dog......

It doesn't matter what he was trying to steal.

My question is does it warrant a shot to the back of the head?

Well......maybe for the dog lol...:evilgrin:

nube 04-02-2009 07:54 PM

I say let the farmer go. I think if there was more of this stuff kids would think twice about doing stupid things. The most I ever stole in my life was a pen from work. I'm tired of seeing people work hard honest lives and getting screwed by others. If the kid wanted a quad then get a bloody job and go buy one like the rest of decent people in this world. I have no simpythy for that kid at all. It seems like there is more and more crime like this and the police and the laws are not changing it. I've had my house broken into and I felt like I would have wrecked someone life if I would have caught them. What an aweful feeling it was to be violated like that. Good luck to Mr. Knight or whatever his name is and I hope he gets off.

Big.Bear 04-02-2009 07:55 PM

there was a old guy back home about 6-7 years ago who shot and killed a 17 year old, him and his friends broke into the old guys store and the kids ran and the guy shot the one in the back with a shotgun and killed him. After about 3 years of going to court he was not charged.

hal53 04-02-2009 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester (Post 297493)
Quad...Truck...Boat....Dog......

It doesn't matter what he was trying to steal.

My question is does it warrant a shot to the back of the head?

Well......maybe for the dog lol...:evilgrin:

will quote 2 posts for you previously
1) "there's Jester once again" (sic)...being himself
2) you can tell a lot about a man how he treats a dog
enough....done:rolleyes:

Jester 04-02-2009 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hal53 (Post 297499)
will quote 2 posts for you previously
1) "there's Jester once again" (sic)...being himself
2) you can tell a lot about a man how he treats a dog
enough....done:rolleyes:

Ahmmm..

#1....ofcourse I'm being myself...What the heck do you mean by that?

Maybe sometimes you pretend to be someone else but I'm always me..

#2...Yup but again I don't get it??

What is your point??

Rocks 04-02-2009 08:07 PM

Yeah I wish the cops would have used a little discretion and not charged Mr. Knight. They should have give him a pat on the back and thanked him for catching the thief. "He's got some buckshot in his ass? Good job!"

hal53 04-02-2009 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester (Post 297507)
Ahmmm..

#1....ofcourse I'm being myself...What the heck do you mean by that?

Maybe sometimes you pretend to be someone else but I'm always me..

#2...Yup but again I don't get it??

What is your point??

no surprise....wow

Jester 04-02-2009 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hal53 (Post 297512)
no surprise....wow

Yeah..no surprise that you can't answer my question.:rolleye2:

Let me try this again..

Quote:

Quad...Truck...Boat....Dog......

It doesn't matter what he was trying to steal.

My question is does it warrant a shot to the back of the head?

Well...does it??


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