Cartridge help.
This is stemming off of my other thread, some of the suggestions have really got me thinking. Please vote for which caliber you think is best for bears, moose, elk.
And if you choose the 338 WM or 375 H&H please tell me what you think the recoil is like. |
First of all,the 338win and 375H&H are cartridges,not calibers.As for choosing a specific cartridge,that depends on how well you deal with recoil.I could be content hunting those animals with any cartridge from the 7mm-08 on up to the 300RUM,but many people have issues dealing with the recoil of the 300 magnums.I don't see a need for the 338s on up unless I am hunting grizzly,and there is no grizzly season in Alberta.
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If you are looking for 1 cartridge to cover "all" North American game 338wm would be my first choice, followed by any of the 300 magnums. I have in the cupboard right now 1- 338, 3 different 300 magnums. With proper firearm fit and good recoil pads all are tolerable to shoot. But they are all in the 8 1/2 - 9 lb range as well w/ scope and loaded magazine , sling etc. The beauty of becoming a hunter and to some degree a gun nut is the choices available . All calibers are usefull for specific tasks, and a few can multi task very well. To all first gun buyers.... stick with conventional chamberings (7-08 through 30-06). Leave the magnum chambering for your next firearm until you are proficient with a non magnum round. JMO:)
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I voted for the .338, and to answer your question: the recoil is manageable in an 8lb rifle, but it is fast and 20 rounds can start to fatigue a person. That being said a 225gr bullet at 2800fps is where I personally have started to see any difference in on game performance that is noticeably better than the 130-180gr crowd out of the .270-300 cartridges. It would be my "one gun for the world" pick. Yes, even for elephants and such.
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Well right now I have a 270, shoot it very easily. I can shoot my dads 8 pound 30-06 with some fairly hot 165gr handloads easily. I just want something different.
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I've hunted the Yukon and brought both my .375 H&H and my .338WM for moose. Got tired of 7 days in a boat and travelled dry land for a while. I came upon a grizzly sow at 75 yds. All alone with my .375 and I'll admit to goose bumps on my arms and back. That .375 although extremely capable didn't make me feel any better, as I figured that if she charged, I still had the job of making the shot. The picture that follows was taken with my cell phone at less than 50 yds. At the time, I was riding the cattle range, my .444Marlin was in the scabbard. I knew that there was no way on God's green earth that I could draw it out fast enough to make a real difference. Best I could do was to pray that my paint mare wouldn't loose it. Tippy toes in the stirrups, I made it out OK. But I'll say that any caliber would not have gotten me out this situation had those two brothers not had a full belly. As a side note, my mare gained a lot of respect from me. And no, I didn't vote, 'cause with a grizz close encounter such as this one, caliber is not an option, not at 50 yds. Pee in your pants is a given.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j9...t/IMG_0933.jpg |
And this is the heroic paint mare that carried me out of this ordeal. Joe Joe was her name. I never forgot that she didn't dump me. In fact, she spotted the grizz's long before I did. I bought her for $1200.00, but after this close encounter and her level headed behaviour, she was worth more to me than a blank cheque.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j9...st/Pic3035.jpg |
.308
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Depending on how well you deal with recoil, the 375 can be considered somewhere between manageable and brutal. With the bigger cartridges, rifle fit becomes much more critical to how recoil is transferred to the shooter.
FWIW, I believe the 338 is probably the best rifle for the bigger varieties of big game in NA (moose, elk, bison, bears), even more so while wandering through grizz country. However, I chose the 375, cause you really can't have too much gun. |
Why is there no all of the above option? :D
Difference betweem the WSM and WM is a wash. For many reasons the 338 is likely a better caliber ;) than the 375 but there is something so cool about the 375 H&H. No collection is complete without all three. |
I use a 30-30 for Moose and Bear, I've never hunted or shot an Elk.
More Moose and Bear are killed with 30-30s then any other caliber, at least in this Provence. Why isn't 30-30 on you list? |
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If you mean any other caliber,the 30-30 is not a caliber,but it shoots .308" bullets,just like the 308win,30-06,300wsm,300winmag and many more cartridges,so it is possible that more bear or moose are killed with .308" bullets than with any other caliber. |
I would choose the .338 Win. My first rifle was (is) a .338 Winchester that I've been hunting with since I was 15 years old. That was 26 years ago. I have 2 at the moment and a .375 H&H as well. They're all great, I carry all 3, depending on what I'm doing. They all have a purpose and wouldn't part with any of them. The .375 has the greatest felt recoil for sure, but it's definitely due to stock design as well as pushing a heavier bullet.
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338x250gnx2900fps in a 12-pound rig. That's a lot of juice at 50 yards for any irritated creature. Lots of punch out to 500 yards, controllable, nice and flat shooting too. No need for 375HH.
Caveat - I don't go out of my way to get close up and personal with grizzlies/brown bears, African cats, vindictive cape buffalo, etc etc. If I wanted to get something silly I would probably bypass the 375 and go directly to a 408 Cheytac, 458 Lott, or 50BMG. Kinda hard to swing a 50 around quickly in heavy bush though. |
None of the above
Keep it simple and get a 30-06, cheap readily available ammo and the calibre will kill anything in North America, very versatile in bullet weights available if you reload or plan on it.
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gitrdun
Gord at Willow Creek rode a fairly green horse in the valley while cutting lumber in 2009 when he noticed something under a tree. Rode up and two grizz cubs and momma was right beside him running along instantly. Green horse kept it together so it was not the size of the calibre but the horse that stays calm and gets you out of harms way that counts.
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w.t.f.
The picture that follows was taken with my cell phone at less than 50 yds. At the time, I was riding the cattle range, my .444Marlin was in the scabbard.
so you had time to take a photo but not to get your .444 out:sign0161: |
I shoot a .375 in a custom shop Rem 700 and love it. Do I need it in Alberta ? Absolutly not, but its a fun gun to shoot,doesnt recoil too bad and spits a 235 grain slug out at 2980 fps so it shoots fairly flat out to 300 yards or so.
The down side is its a bit heavey for hiking hills but for bush or flat country its fine Ian |
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I had a buddy downriver who swore by his little bush ponies - the danged things were half mule I think when it came to dealing with things like wolves and bears! I also know that when things happen quick you had better have a deep seat, but keep a hand on the horn for sure - a good horse will know what to do in once you turn him and give him his head!! :>) You are right on, gitrdun, I'd go for a good horse before a big gun any day!:>) Cat |
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Seriously. |
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If you have a 270 and an 06, to me the obvious choice for something differnet would be the 375. If it is just for fun, they really are that, from 245 grain cast loads at 1500 fps to 270 grain TSX at 2700 fps, they are a great toy with lots of fun factor.
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned a Marlin Guide Gun in 45-70 using hand loads :thinking-006:
30-06 is a good all round one as well many others that aren't listed :) |
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excellent with iron sights to 100 yards maybe beyond that if you're confident and even further with optics (although it looks goofy) |
I went with 338
I've never fired a 300WSM or a 375HH
but have fired a 300WinMag and owned a 338WinMag for awhile. a Ruger 77MK2 and it was easier to shoot well than the 300WinMag I had. Lots of barrel of good diameter out in front made the difference I think. because you included bears, I would not consider any 30cal. Like Giterdun sez, big 'uns like those in the picture would also make me leave a wet spot. for Moose and Elk, a 338 can penetrate and kill very effectively. and to me penetration is the key. if a 375 recoil is in the same category, I'd choose that. that is just me, I like to make sure I leave a good blood trail from the exit wound. my 338, with 230gr failsafe, penetrated about 5-6 ft of moose starting at the back, ending up in the lungs some where. broken hip, broken back, and coughing copious amounts of blood. That was the blood trail I followed. I am not sure I would have taken the shot with a 30cal. |
375 H&H is awesome... I do not listen to most peoples who says its overkill or have a bad recoil.. such as the common story of the 300 pound man who is scared of the recoil of a 375.
My hunter ethic tells me that id rather have a caliber who kill the animal 1 shot in its track than a caliber who make the animal suffer for a while. I do own a 30-06.. and i will never bring it back to hunting. Sure a well placed shot kill with all the caliber... but how many caliber can claim to kill everytime with a single shot... ? Plus the recoil now is rediculous to even talk about with the several muzzle brake and supressor offered for the hunters who are scared of their rifle.. A side note about recoil is.. dont expect a cheap rifle at 500$ to kick like an awesome 2000$ Sako etc.. its just impossible.. there is quality and weight to consider.. Now to answer the Question.. my answer is : a Sako in caliber 375 H&H " 8.5lb " kick very fast but very very smooth... My Dad 375 H&H Browning. 27 inch barrel Kick a bit more than a Sako. My uncle 375 H&H Ruger n'1 kick a lot more. Ruger firearms kick a lot.. all of em does. I tried em all and im 156 lb and i can shoot a 20 shot box with all of em without my shoulder to feel any pain. But Sako come over the top with the less felt recoil. Oh and id love to see some comments on the fact that a 338 win mag actually have a bad recoil compared to a 375 h&h... ive heard its terrible.. never tried that caliber and i do own a .338 Lapua and its also very very smooth.... No i do not have a muzzle brake... Makes no sense to use 1 unless you want to buy a 4000 $ caliber and feel like your shooting a 300 $ .22 LRF.. rofl.:sign0161: |
Id love to include in my comment even if most peoples already know the fact.
A 300 wsm is a better version of the classic 300 Win mag ( Better velocity, flatter trajectory etc ) It is the Top of the 4th rifle you listed for LONG RANGE. ( Some peoples says barrel life is not as good as a 300 win mag..??? ) 300 win mag come 2nd For Long Range and power. 338 Win mag have better punch than a 300 win mag but for Medium Range shot... 300 win mag will beat a 338 when shooting 400 yards +... Now the classic 375 h&h.. probably my favorite... Most peoples says its only good for up to 250 yards... i think its true... a 89 $ box of 260gr nosler accubon will give a better chance to reach further with better punch than a 270 or 300... But it is not the best rifle for a Long Range shot.... For close range id take a 375 Anytime.. For a long shot.. 300 WSM. PS * If you have the money.. buy the real All around rifle.. .338 Lapua Magnum.. * |
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