Nurse Practitioners
Now that the province is funding these people for 80% of what Family Doctors are paid, we can all look forward to way better family medicine, or maybe not.
I do hope that the province will step up and insure these people against the unlimited liability law suits that will soon follow. Maybe some of our lawyers and judges will describe what sort of settlements a patient can expect if a diagnosis is missed and the patient suffers irreversible, preventable harm. Too bad we only have 2 medical schools, who are turning away qualified students because of funding cuts. |
It's public Healthcare.
Keeping you alive hurts the bottom line. |
BC already does this, why the fear mongering?
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An NP can probably handle 75% of all doctor's office visits: all the worried parents hauling their kids in for a stuff nose, people getting vaccines for travel, prescribing antibiotics for minor infections, writing bloodwork requisitions, etc. A good implementation plan would have family medicine clinics with NPs working in conjunction with MDs at the same clinic, allowing the MDs to focus more time on the medically complex and out-of-NP-scope procedures.
However, like Scott h notes, it seems this plan pits NPs and MDs against each other rather than have them work together. |
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However.... Many very serious conditions first present themselves as "minor" symptoms. Having lesser educated people handling "minor" infections and runny noses will lead to delayed or completely missed proper diagnoses, and we know where that leads. |
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NP "Kristy MacDonald" is best to open her own clinic..... |
I could see this work if they were in a combined clinic with 1-2 doctors. Setting them free to operate their own clinic with half the training of real doctors, well we might pay the price.:angry3:
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Fear mongering continued
Well you have already been told what will happen sooner or later, what I can add is that this will drive out some of the Doctors that you have trained to more welcoming locals.
Just BTW would you encourage your gifted child to peruse career in medicine? When all this "socialized" medicine got started the Doctors warned that the government would sooner or later begin to interfere with the practice of medicine. They (the doctors) had a strike in Sask. It is now "later" |
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See, there is a process to medicine and only a finite number of resources. NP or MD, minor symptoms present without any other concerns are all going to be treated the same way. Vast majority of the time, the medical professional will tell you to let them know if it gets worse or other symptoms show, and try this prescription. At best, they might order bloodwork or an ultrasound type test. Basic Dynalife stuff—but they can’t and won’t order tests for every little thing. Thus, as noted, if a case does turn from minor symptoms to more complex, it’s referred off to an MD. Same way that a family medicine MD refers off to complex specialist MDs when it goes beyond their knowledge base. IMO, the overarching point here though is that family medicine doctors are woefully underpaid for the amount of BS they deal with, and it’s obvious you have to be some sort of Mother Teresa type (or maybe just an outright sadist) to work in family medicine. I don’t know why NPs would make 80% of an MDs average takehome, but that to me speaks more to an issue of MD pay than NP. But if we could reduce the amount of BS those doctors deal with but at least keep pay similar, maybe we’d get more bright people into the profession. |
My last doctor had 2 NP in his office. I preferred to see them over the Doc. They took the time to listen and ask questions. Helped get to a proper diagnosis and treatment. Actually looking forward to the NP's setting up shop.
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There is nothing to be gained for Public health when lesser qualified personnel are overpaid. Yet the main issues with our failing ( I personally feel that it is better described as failed) healthcare system is too rapid of population growth (99% due to Immigration rates) and an incredibly bloated bureaucracy. If we dealt with these issues, we wouldn't be having this particular discussion about MDs and NPs.... |
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However, I believe there are many cases where a NP is more than qualified to do certain tasks, and we should pursue ways to lighten the load for doctors. For the last 4 years all we've heard from doctors is how over-worked they are. Well here is a great solution to mitigate that. Funny the pushback coming from those same doctors now. Makes one raise an eyebrow. |
NP's like already said work best within a physicians' orbit (at this time). Yes they can do 80% +/- of what physicians do ... will they replace physicians = NO! ... This will allow physicians to focus on the more complex issues and work to the higher scope of their practice and thereby increase medical services in the community, especially rural and remote communities ... this was done previously with LPN's which had the UNA screaming their nonsense and with optometrists which had ophthalmologists going berekerzzz and protesting in their titey whitey lab coats ... the biggest hinderance to getting this done in all cases is the GREED of the AMA and many of their members... provincial MA's also are the biggest hinderance to getting foreign trained physicians certified as they are a direct threat to their old game and lucre ... the big thing that needs to be accomplished is to either harmonise the SOMB (schedule of medical benefits) across Canada, or create a new system at a pan-Canadian level. The SOMB is the biggest con $$$ game going for physicians, as once they learn the game it is a cash cow. And so you all know ... the biggest hinderance to NP's getting to where they are now has been the physicians of the AMA blocking progress, specifically the specialists as the GP's are a pretty reasonable bunch for the most part and should not be associated with the AMA stink
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The only people truly fearful should be those double dipping in the tax payer's pocket.....again. |
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In your example, the only person who could be accused of double dipping would be the pharmacist (paid for their assessment/prescription, then sells the drug they just prescribed). The physician only gets paid for their assessment. Not for writing the prescription. Not for the drugs getting dispensed. |
I've seen plenty of well-run family medicine clinics where NPs play a part. Lots they can do to help for sure.
Running their own clinics? I have my doubts. The training to be a nurse is drastically different than training to be a physician. That's just the reality of it. On top of that, they'll have to deal with the reality of running a business. At 80% their margins will even be tighter, unless the government thinks they'll pay their overhead too. Also, their goal is to have each NP carry 900 patients. A full patient load for many GPs is 2000. Hard to see the value there. The real problem is that primary care has been destroyed by years of underfunding and increasing business costs. Ultimately, the most affordable care a person can get is what they get in the community. Without good primary care, people get sick enough to have to go to the hospital. As soon as a person has to come in to hospital the costs go through the roof. |
"years of underfunding" from your perspective. Our budget to AHS is already huge. We allowed too many people in, never kept up with infrastructure, the AMA made sure we didn't have enough doctors, we sent 200 billion East, plus the plandemic screwed everything up royally.
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Tell me how the AMA was involved? Who determines how many doctors we train in Alberta? How would a province retain said trained doctors? We lost quite a few when their contract got unilaterally torn up while BC cranked up their wages. |
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Agree, yearly tune up, height, weight, blood pressure and then they talk to you about an issue if there is one, fill out paperwork for lab work etc and off you go. Don’t tie up a doctor for this routine type of work. If something goes sideways well then you sit with a doctor. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Number of Doctors
There is a lot of information in these posts. I'm sorry to hear the stories of incorrect or missed diagnoses, medicine is still not an exact science.
Anyway, the number of physicians is determined by the number of spaces that the universities are allowed to train. Alberta with 2 medical schools should never have any shortages. The problem hurting the system now, and it has been for a very long time, is not being able to discharge patients from the acute hospitals who have completed the acute phase of their illness but cannot return to their homes. Usually because they can't handle 2 stairs. The physicians that we already have could easily triage the patients in the waiting room/ER if the hospital had available beds! My grand daughter, an honours student could easily be accepted into medical school but her mother, who is a psychologist has advised against it for many of the reasons that you see in the responses to this post. We are trying to solve the wrong problem. |
Number of doctors
According to this article Alberta has added 500 new doctors and a new deal is coming for doctors.
https://edmontonjournal.com/news/pol...”%20she%20said. On a side note, the whole country has a doctor shortage because of reckless immigration, effecting everything from healthcare to housing. Alberta just seems to be Trudeau’s paid media punching bag. |
I think but could be wrong because I'm not in the industry but I think you have to be a RN before you can be NP so there is quite a bit of training involved here.
I suspect this is a good way to take load off of our doctors and to provide better services under our circumstances. In my area you will wait years and years to get a family doctor but yet all these outsiders are moving here like crazy. |
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Add in the expensive, bloated bureaucrat and admin who sucks up health dollars for their big salaries, benefits, pensions and bonuses to continue screwing up our HC. |
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https://alis.alberta.ca/occinfo/cert...-practitioner/ Need 4500 hours of nursing experience or 562 days at an 8 hour shift. Nurse practitioners can’t do all the same stuff doctors can however they can also phone doctors to consult as needed in remote treatment. People still have the option to go see a doctor if they want. It would appear the time and effort needed to become a nurse practitioner is difficult and maybe more will do it if the pay is better. I suspect most don’t want the added stress of this new level of care. https://www.ualberta.ca/nursing/abou...ctitioner.html |
[QUOTE=pittman;4719721]
Tell me how the AMA was involved? Who determines how many doctors we train in Alberta? How would a province retain said trained doctors? I think you very well know the answer to your question, an imposed quota system to enable the privileged few to retain their positions and salaries. Our Universities already with gazillions in taxpayer subsidies churn out useless degrees that head out to netherworlds. Why not be leaders in training people for useful employ. Do you think that the AMA did not know that a shortage was on the horizon while they were backslapping each other at the faculty club. As a hardcore dipper, what did Notley do for you with the 80 billion she overspent. I see in her leadership debate speech Shannon she says that she would hire 1000 professionals immediately, like duh, from where, pull them out of her big ...hat. |
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In Europe you can start medicine school from day 1 and finish it in six years. EU system has a two years advantage, plus the premed courses can be much better adapted for the following med courses. |
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