Canadian Forces looking to replace Browning HiPower
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...other-10-years
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Glock 21? Another 9mm? Sig? 10 years to pick out a gun and distribute them. Seems real efficient. They must have the government involved somehow. :sHa_sarcasticlol: $50,000,000. That's around $2000 a gun supposedly including spare parts etc. I think they should use me as a middle man...looks like there's some extra juice in the orange. |
Sig
P226 all the way.
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I believe JTF2 is already packing the Sig 226, just order more.
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I think the beretta brigadier looks solid as all get out. I dont really care what they use as long as it is what they are comfortable with and fits what they need personally. Spend the money to get what they want. And ten years is a tad pathetic if they know it needs to replaced just get it done not dragged out like a municiple road repair.
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Hk pl30.....and since its govt contract, hk mr308 for the same coast as they would pay for just one colt pistol..............with lifetime waranty and service and free ice cream......
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In my opinion they should definitely look at another 9mm. It will save a lot of headaches and unnecessary wasted time and money that would be cause by changing to a new calibre. I'd love to see P226's become standard issue but I'd even settle for just getting brand new Hi-Powers.
My favourite quote from the whole article: "Industry representatives have privately questioned why Canada would take so long to buy a new pistol, noting that the process could be completed in about a year or two at most." It really highlights the underlying problem. The fact that the procurement system for the Canadian Forces is completely and utterly broken. The system needs to be scrapped and redone from the ground up so we can replace equipment needed in a timely manner, and no I don't consider 10-20 years a timely manner. |
The military police already pack glocks as well. The browning hipower is a pretty bad pistol the magazines where prone to getting dust inside and jamming the spring making the rounds all fall out if you flip the mag upside down after you loaded the first round. Not everyone gets a pistol and the primary weapon is the c7 or c8 for the armoured guys. It'll be interesting to see what they come up with for the role of these new pistols there army many benefits to a pistol over the c7 other than walking to the mess hall and having to be armed.
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I Carried the old Browning for a few years as an AFP/MP. We were only allowed 10 rds in the mag....to save the mag spring, they said. MP commissioned officers and SIU (now CFNIS) were issued the Colt Cobra in .38 spl. Female MPs were issued the S&W 5 shot Chiefs Special in .38 spl.
Not sure what MPs are using today. |
They should have replaced them in early 90s.
The barrels used to rattle around in them so worn out |
Go with the beretta just like the boys down south.
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However, for the current discussion, the sig is outdated itself. Stupid double action to single trigger idea that never should have got off the ground. If anyone is scared to carry a loaded gun, take up knitting. Glock 19 is the the Americans current pick and would work well here. Say what you will about plastic, there's a good reason so many police forces and militaries use them. They work and almost everyone can shoot them well. |
It will be Glock
65% of all LE in North America use Glock FBI just went to Glock Several Specialize US military units have gone to Glock They beat every other option in testing at 2/3 the cost. 34 total parts and they are so simple the Glock Armorer course is only 1 day(took it this past summer). It will be Glock |
Many LE agencies in the States have had a $50/gun deal with Glock. Whenever the gun gets old, free trade-in for another new one. The used ones get sold to the public for much more than initial cost.
And regardless of that, $2k per gun and 10 years? I could put a deal together in a week that'd have them outfitted in a year or two at most and much lower cost. :sign0176: |
The 10 years would be the testing, procurement, and then roll out and conversion training. If they just accepted previous testing results from other organizations (FBI, Specialized forces, NYPD etc) then the time would be significantly reduced, but I doubt that will happen.
When the Mounties went from the 38 to the Smith it took 4 years to train approx. 15000 Members. It will take time to train all Armed Forces and complete the new COF. If they do accept the previous testing reports, I say still a minimum of 7 years for procurement, roll out and all employees trained. |
Sig p225 if keeping with 9mm ammunition
Sig p226 if changing to another ammunition........say.40 S&W:) |
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Also, the story is a bit misleading. It cites the handgun as being "1940's era". I doubt soldiers are carrying around 70 year old firearms. I think that is when that model was first introduced. Heck, when was the 1911 first introduced ;) ???? Anything wrong with it? |
Carried the Browning High Powered 9MM for my 20 year career as an MP. Awesome weapon that I Never had a problem with, just gotta give it some tender TLC every once in a while and you were good to go.
I'd say just purchase the newest version of the Browning in 9MM. It'll save a allot of monies in the long run and be uber effect for the troops that use them. |
Canada's painfully slow military procurement process.
From the National Post article linked in the OP's first post ...
" ... Industry representatives have privately questioned why Canada would take so long to buy a new pistol, noting that the process could be completed in about a year or two at most ..." We have too many government bureaucrats, afraid to make decisions in a timely manner ... constantly kicking the can down the road. :rolleye2: Mac |
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Another great thing about glocks is their weight. I would imagine humping around all the weight soldiers do ounces start to matter. Especially a secondary weapon like a handgun.
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And if they are estimating a 10 year process, in the end it will probably take 20 years. And in the meantime (to fill the gap), they will probably issue our troops slingshots from Walmart. Mac |
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If it's the Liberals making the procurement I'll guess that they'll buy used sidearms at a discounted price that don't function correctly and spend 100's of millions of dollars refitting them so they function correctly. Think British subs.
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Procurement Process
For an interesting perspective on the lengthy procurement process the Canadian Forces have to go through, read retired General Rick Hillier's book "A Soldier First". It will give a good idea on why it takes so long to procure anything, let alone a new sidearm for the troops. Too many layers, too much politics, and too many people with their finger in the pie. :angry3:
Mr Conservation |
Just buy new Hi-powers, nothing wrong with the design. I've used it for years.
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It will be in 9x19. That's the NATO standard.
This replacement has been in the works for sometime. I thought I read someplace that a Sig pistol was the intended replacement, but for the life of me I'm struggling to find any information now. |
Rick Hillier
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But I digress, Mac |
I'd be surprised if it isn't the Sig considering it's already in use and the last pistol I was issued before retiring. I believe the MPs have them in use as well.
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General Rick Hillier
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Mr. Conservation |
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