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-   -   Unjust F&W fines (http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=382135)

mariocerna 05-26-2020 09:26 AM

Unjust F&W fines
 
Hello Friends, this is my story: I went to buy my tags for special walleye harvest for lake St. Anne in Cabela’s last Wednesday, that day they did not give me the wires because there were no more, I did not give much importance to that. I got home and put the tags in my tackle box. Last weekend a friend and I went fishing with my son, a friend of his and my friend's daughter. It was a fun day of fishing in which we harvested 5 walleyes of the compulsory size. After taking the fish out of the water I proceeded to tag them, but I realized that I did not have my wires, I asked my friend for wires but he did not bring them at that time, the wires were in his truck.
It was very easy for us to decide that when we got to the boat launch we were going to tag the fish. After finishing the fishing we arrived at the boat launch, then my son and his friend who are teenagers without asking but with all the good intention of helping, took the cooler with the fish and pops and started walking towards the pickup that was about 100 meters from the boat launch. Almost arriving at the truck, the kids were stopped by an F&W officer who checked the cooler.
The officer approached us and we discuss the situation, we expressed our intention to tag the fish at the boat launch, we showed our permits and our tags and the fish were within the size limits. Even so we ended up with the fish and tags confiscated and a fine of 150 dollars per fish in the reason of improperly tagged fish. I really did not think we were ended up fined, I thought we would receive a warning or perhaps a lighter fine. My friend had a fine of 300 dollars and I a fine of 450 dollars, this ruined what had been an excellent day of fishing.
Do you believe that you should appeal this fine in court? on the grounds that we have had any history of F&W fines,we had all of our tags, licences, permits and the intention to do the right things, but due to a good intention of the kids and a problem of wire shortage in Cabela’s we ended up being unjustly fined.

HuyFishin 05-26-2020 09:35 AM

My take on the situation. If I was the officer i would definitely have gave you the ticket. Cant take everyones word for it. For all I know you could have put the fish in your vehicle and saved your tags for your next trip. Having the tags on hand is still the outdoorsmans responsibility. If you did not have the tags available you should have put them walleyes back in the water. Law states you have to put tags on as soon as they are harvested. Putting fish in the live well or stringers and waiting till your trip is over is a no no. So this was your first mistake. I remember not receiving my wires for my tags from the fishing hole so i never used my tags. I waited to go back and ask for them. It wasnt a big deal and wasn't ready to take a fine.

If you do try to appeal this case he has all the proof that you broke the law. Not sure if its worth it. Sorry to hear about all your trouble. I hope this is a lesson learned.

Edit: I forget to mention, regardless of the childrens good deed, you still broke the law from the start

Talking moose 05-26-2020 09:47 AM

Have to give you a ticket man.
Otherwise every poacher would be doing this without having to worry about repprocutions.
Sorry. Lesson learned.

58thecat 05-26-2020 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuyFishin (Post 4176315)
My take on the situation. If I was the officer i would definitely have gave you the ticket. Cant take everyones word for it. For all I know you could have put the fish in your vehicle and saved your tags for your next trip. Having the tags on hand is still the outdoorsmans responsibility. If you did not have the tags available you should have put them walleyes back in the water. Law states you have to put tags on as soon as they are harvested. Putting fish in the live well or stringers and waiting till your trip is over is a no no. So this was your first mistake. I remember not receiving my wires for my tags from the fishing hole so i never used my tags. I waited to go back and ask for them. It wasnt a big deal and wasn't ready to take a fine.

If you do try to appeal this case he has all the proof that you broke the law. Not sure if its worth it. Sorry to hear about all your trouble. I hope this is a lesson learned.

Edit: I forget to mention, regardless of the childrens good deed, you still broke the law from the start

exactly...lessens learned...for all involved.

dam I made a quick cut through a provincial park on my quad about 10 years ago ice fishing...my fault 100%...no excuses...$270.00 later...lessens learnt.

Positrac 05-26-2020 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talking moose (Post 4176326)
Have to give you a ticket man.
Otherwise every poacher would be doing this without having to worry about repprocutions.
Sorry. Lesson learned.

As much as getting a fine sucks I’d have to agree with what has been posted so far.

Fitscottn 05-26-2020 09:55 AM

I will side with F&W on this.

Similar to hunting, the first thing you do after you walk up to the harvested animal is put the tag on.

Honest mistakes are sadly expensive lessons.


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HuyFishin 05-26-2020 10:00 AM

I would also like to take this moment to welcome you to this forum. :)

DiabeticKripple 05-26-2020 10:02 AM

Im on side with F&W, if you had no way to tag the fish, then the person shouldnt have kept them.

How does F&W actually know that you were going to tag them?

If you are going to fish a lake that has retention with tags, you better double check you have the tags, wires, and a stapler to help keep the tags on.

OL_JR 05-26-2020 10:02 AM

Unfortunately the only option for you without wires was to throw all your walleye back and you didn't do that. Gonna have to suck it up and pay the fine.

Now another discussion is the tags themselves and how ridiculous it is they haven't come up with something more durable, but that's what we got to work with at the moment.

Sparkle 05-26-2020 10:03 AM

We had the same situation at Pigeon. Canadian Tire had run out of the wires needed. What I did was use leader material instead ran it through the mouth and gills and stuck the tags to it. I also used a stapler to secure the tags onto the leader line . We were stopped by a F and W officer. He checked our catch , shook his head and thanked us for our ingenuity. The key is show the tags were secured to the fish. Good luck

BuckCuller 05-26-2020 10:09 AM

Pay to play.
 
Just like others here, I wouldn’t say the fines were unjust. The officer used his judgment to the best of his ability and came to the conclusion that after trying to tag the first fish once you caught it you should have known that you did not have the proper means to tag the fish and should have released it and not kept anymore.
He wouldn’t be able to tell if it was just a mistake or weather you have kept five limits already doing the same thing so people need to be held to a standard.

Some times mistakes cost money just like a fender bender.
But I guarantee, you will have your wires next time.

mariocerna 05-26-2020 10:28 AM

Legal advice
 
I know that the fine was lawfully, but like a case when you get laid off without proper notice and you get a lawful but unjust severance; then you have to go to the a labor lawyer and he gathers a history of legal plaintiffs to support your case he sues your former employer and then you get a more just severance. Here why I’m asking is not whether the fine is lawful or not, I’m asking whether this can be win in court because can be supported by the legal plaintiffs history, perhaps there is a lawyer in this group that can give more advice.

Fishwhere 05-26-2020 10:30 AM

I hate to say it but i agree with F & W. They literally didnt have a choice in that situation. The tag rules are very clear. I do think you should appeal though and hopefully your fines get reduced.

I dont necassarily agree with losing the fish too - even though its menial.

Also to add - what is saying you havent done that 10 times in a year and just have the tags as a back up for a situation like this? Not saying thats what you do, but you could....

hal53 05-26-2020 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariocerna (Post 4176359)
I know that the fine was lawfully, but like a case when you get laid off without proper notice and you get a lawful but unjust severance; then you have to go to the a labor lawyer and he gathers a history of legal plaintiffs to support your case he sues your former employer and then you get a more just severance. Here why I’m asking is not whether the fine is lawful or not, I’m asking whether this can be win in court because can be supported by the legal plaintiffs history, perhaps there is a lawyer in this group that can give more advice.

The law is very clearly stated in the regulations. You broke the law, got caught and received a fine..pay up.

HuyFishin 05-26-2020 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishwhere (Post 4176361)
I hate to say it but i agree with F & W. They literally didnt have a choice in that situation. The tag rules are very clear. I do think you should appeal though and hopefully your fines get reduced.

I dont necassarily agree with losing the fish too - even though its menial.

Also to add - what is saying you havent done that 10 times in a year and just have the tags as a back up for a situation like this? Not saying thats what you do, but you could....

Losing the fish will have to be a part of it. Its still illegally harvested fish so I dont think he would allow you to keep it. The Officer rather throw the walleye back in the water regardless if its still alive or dead. Let nature do its thing.

Not on the same level but if someone was to steal candy from a candy store. The officers not gonna say you might aswell eat it since I already fined you.

Talking moose 05-26-2020 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariocerna (Post 4176359)
I know that the fine was lawfully, but like a case when you get laid off without proper notice and you get a lawful but unjust severance; then you have to go to the a labor lawyer and he gathers a history of legal plaintiffs to support your case he sues your former employer and then you get a more just severance. Here why I’m asking is not whether the fine is lawful or not, I’m asking whether this can be win in court because can be supported by the legal plaintiffs history, perhaps there is a lawyer in this group that can give more advice.

Cmon man. Is it really worth it? It might be different if alligators had bitten your hands off and you had no way of affixing a tag.

pikeman06 05-26-2020 10:53 AM

The tag system is pretty open to abuse. The f&w know this and have heard every excuse in the book. Of course they are gonna charge people being non complient, that's their job. I don't see much ground for appeal in your case.

mariocerna 05-26-2020 11:02 AM

When you lost your job, have two mortgages and 4 teenagers. Every cent is worth fighting.

MooseRiverTrapper 05-26-2020 11:33 AM

If you sent someone for the wires and left the fish be a different story. Or affixed tags with tape, used leaders for wire etc... Multiple parties on your boat failed to be prepared. Nothing preventing you from throwing the cooler in the truck taking off and coming back and doing it again tomorrow. Crappy deal but that’s the law.

whitetail Junkie 05-26-2020 11:36 AM

My only suggestion is that if anyone else runs into a similar situation like this and doesn’t have the wire at least run some fishing line or string through the gills and fold your tag over it.

walking buffalo 05-26-2020 11:42 AM

The fines are just.

Go to court, represent yourself.
You have the time and the financial burden to make it worthwhile.
You might even receive more compassion there than here on AO.

fisher Gord 05-26-2020 11:46 AM

F&W know that there are other ways to affix the tags. A leader has been mentioned. a short piece of small rope tied in with a knot and the tag wrapped around. no wires is no excuse for not tagging.

jungleboy 05-26-2020 11:53 AM

Simple solution , don’t buy the walleye tags in the first place . I see it as another money grab when you get to pay $3.65 per walleye tag for $2.00 worth of fish. How desperate are we to keep a bloody walleye? Soon they will charge you by the pound.
If the fisheries department is that strapped for cash maybe they should put a 1/2% fish management tax on boats and fishing gear and everything fishing related.Doesn't matter if you use your boat for fishing or not. Actually if you buy a wake boat or a jet ski you should have the privilege of paying a higher fisheries tax because of how annoying your boat is to fishermen.:) I’m quite certain they would raise all the money they would ever need that way, I am also quite certain they would spend it all on things that do nothing to enhance the fisheries in this province.

Rvsask 05-26-2020 11:56 AM

Quote:

F&W know that there are other ways to affix the tags. A leader has been mentioned. a short piece of small rope tied in with a knot and the tag wrapped around. no wires is no excuse for not tagging.
I agree. I think you're trying to win a fight that you won't win. Learn from the mistake, let your kids learn from it too, don't go out of your way to try show them you were right,......
when you were not.

CanuckShooter 05-26-2020 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jungleboy (Post 4176433)
Simple solution , don’t buy the walleye tags in the first place . I see it as another money grab when you get to pay $3.65 per walleye tag for $2.00 worth of fish. How desperate are we to keep a bloody walleye? Soon they will charge you by the pound.
If the fisheries department is that strapped for cash maybe they should put a 1/2% fish management tax on boats and fishing gear and everything fishing related.Doesn't matter if you use your boat for fishing or not. Actually if you buy a wake boat or a jet ski you should have the privilege of paying a higher fisheries tax because of how annoying your boat is to fishermen.:) I’m quite certain they would raise all the money they would ever need that way, I am also quite certain they would spend it all on things that do nothing to enhance the fisheries in this province.

I have to side with this sentiment, next thing will be grouse tags for the fall.

Who Da Fisherman 05-26-2020 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparkle (Post 4176343)
We had the same situation at Pigeon. Canadian Tire had run out of the wires needed. What I did was use leader material instead ran it through the mouth and gills and stuck the tags to it. I also used a stapler to secure the tags onto the leader line . We were stopped by a F and W officer. He checked our catch , shook his head and thanked us for our ingenuity. The key is show the tags were secured to the fish. Good luck

^^^This, we did the same, I think it worked better as those wires are small for Class A eyes.
WDF

lyallpeder 05-26-2020 01:14 PM

I would have given you the ticket too. It’s your responsibility to tag the fish as soon as you harvest them.

You could pay $20 on it and ask for more time to pay then as long as your putting $10 on it now and then they will probably keep giving you time. I believe the online fine payment fee is waved right now.

sns2 05-26-2020 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitetail Junkie (Post 4176419)
My only suggestion is that if anyone else runs into a similar situation like this and doesn’t have the wire at least run some fishing line or string through the gills and fold your tag over it.

This is exactly what I was thinking. I feel badly for the OP, but there's not much else to say really.

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58thecat 05-26-2020 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariocerna (Post 4176386)
When you lost your job, have two mortgages and 4 teenagers. Every cent is worth fighting.

not in this case as you would be chucking more funds out to fight a loosing battle....save the cash and buy some groceries....teenagers eat like horses.

Dewey Cox 05-26-2020 01:28 PM

Every poacher ever caught was "just about to put the tag on".

But, if you're unemployed anyway, go sit in court and fight it.
At the very least they'll give you more time or a payment plan.


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