A great point made in another forum about thieves
 

(talking about a stolen race boat)
Let's think about this unemotionally for a moment.

Who stands to make money when things are stolen besides the thieves?
Car dealerships
ATV dealerships
RV dealerships
Autobody dealerships
Parts dealerships
Recyclers
Insurance Companies
Security companies
Banks
.....the list goes on and on.

How badly do politicians want to take money out of the pockets of big business? The only reason law enforcement makes ANY effort at all to arrest thieves is because...well...it is illegal after all. As told to me by a LEO..."There is NO profit in catching thieves!"

But the legal system doesn't want to keep them in prison because that costs $$ and it disrupts the profits of Big Business.

It's a big circle that just keeps goin' round and round and round......

I agree, also

the criminals need to have 'an accident' if and when we catch them. If they are willing to risk forfeiture of freedom by coming on our land and taking our possessions they may as well be prepared for the big sleep. I like a snipers nest and claymores, personally.

Hands caught in the cookie jar??? Short drop with even shorter rope is my suggestion. I'm sick of these dirt bags stealing what others have worked hard for. And most people's answer is that's what insurance is for...give your head a shake. Why should I even have to pay theft insurance. If your caught with my stolen property there shouldnt even need to be an " accident" it should be within my right to defend my property. If you don't think that my stuff is worth your life then keep your hands off my stuff and you will get to keep living.

I must say Ken, it is nice to see that you have had a change of heart over time. It was not long ago when you would not condone defense of property.
:shake2:

I have been eating turd bagels on here for years about my stance on shipping criminals to the Antartica, I have no feelings whatsoever for anyone that breaks the law other than 'hope they pay for their crimes'

I was under the impression of the opposite.

I stand with you.

I call BS on the economic model of that theory. If said items were not stolen then the money not needed towards their replacement would then go to something else that drives the economy. Such money does not materialize out of nowhere, it must be earned. If thefts were reduced then insurance premiums would be lower and that money would still be circulating in the economy. Some people might not have the money to replace goods stolen from them; perhaps the item is only worth their deductible or perhaps said item isn't insured. How then does that benefit them?

What would improve the economy is if thieves didn't exist and instead had productive jobs. What would help the economy is if recidivist parasites who habitually prey on others were no longer drawing oxygen because it sure doesn't drive the economy to have them in prison (sure it offers some corrections jobs, but that just costs the taxpayer and businesses who could both do better things with the money)

But, it was stolen. There is going to be money going somewhere.

I pay a lot of insurance yearly. Really a lot. If I have a boat, trailer, truck, kicker, gear, electronics, radar stolen I file a claim for ~$245,000.00. I win. They don't fight big claims too hard, especially with the proof they demanded for value prior to writing the insurance and taking my money.

Then Ford sells me a truck, Seaswirl a boat, Canadian tire, fishin hole, wholesale sports, Yamaha, Cabelas all get to sell me everything they sold me last time. They win. This has never happened to me. I just pay. The insurance company wins with me, so far knock on teak.

If I have a lawnmower stolen that is worth $1000 insurance hits me for $500 deductible, then the adjuster says the mower is only worth $650 so here is your $150, take it or leave it. Oh and by the way you are no longer claims free, so you lose that discount. Oh and because of the high rate of thefts in your area you insurance is going up. So obviously I do not claim, I am out $1000. So John Deer wins because I go back to them to buy another $400 riding mower for $1185 because 'the american dollar is kicking our butts, we had to adjust prices this year'.

SO John Deer and Insurance wins. Plus the crook wins.

The economic model is sound, you just have to contort your vision to see it lol.

Or not buy yourself such nice things to begin with and then you won't be affected much by crime.

If you have $250,000 worth of toys and it gets stolen you can't cry foul when you have to pay the cost to replace them.
Should have bought something less expensive and not as shiny,
To give temptation to the thief.

Or at least blame the criminal and not the dealerships, as it was not them that stole your items,

Or one step further,
It's no ones fault but your own, if y ou decide to have $250,000 worth of toys for someone to steal in the first place.

If I only have $70,000 worth of toys and the Jones's have double that and they get targeted and not me,
Because the dumb crooks know their stuff is worth more,
Maybe they should have been a little conservative in their purchasing.

Or

Why would a thief steal a Ford Ranger, when the F-350 parked beside it yields a bigger payday.

huh? :scared0015:

Are you joking? You have got to be kidding.

I am not going to live my life scared of someone stealing whatever I have, irregardless of cost. That's ridiculous.
If I have a $9.00 dingy or a $300,000 Kingfisher you are damn right I have the right to cry foul when it is stolen, that was MY money that bought it. Because I could afford it the first time I should 'suck it up' the 2nd time? That makes no sense at all???
I don't see anyone blaming the dealerships, not sure where you got that from.
Less shiny so as not to entice thieves? Ridiculous again.
Pui?

Just wow....

If this isn't a joke it's the dumbest post I've ever read on here. Victim blaming (or perhaps jealousy) at its best.

One thing is clear as day, i do NOT ever wish to know anything further about you or surround myself with people such as this..what an awful outlook & justification for theives/fools.
(I can only hope your post was sarcasm)

And this explains why police forces put so much emphasis on handing out traffic tickets rather than on solving crimes . It all comes down to making money, and solving crimes and punishing criminals simply isn't profitable . And if the same thief eventually surprises an innocent victim , and kills him while robbing him, too bad for the victim, his life wasn't worth the police and our courts dealing with the thief.

Settle down snow flakes,

If you can't handle a little devils advocate surrounding your perspectives don't put them where one can.

Your prior post is not a little devils advocate....its just liberal guilt....same as any time I start hearing excuses for criminals and failures in life with the refrain "socioeconomic disadvantaged" ....and of course followed by "blah blah blah.....govt needs to give them more money"......at the working man's tax expense.

Maybe the if the thief got off his adze and worked, he could eventually could buy his own shiny toys.

But if you want to really play DA, then suggest that those that would make excuses for the thief are really a thief at heart as well.

Because Ford rangers are easy to steal and easy to move.

I had my Mazda B-series almost stolen a couple years ago. the only thing that stopped them was a frozen battery. buggered up my lock and my ignition before they figured that out though.

So you're calling me a thief?

And just because you call yourself DA doesn't give you exclusive rights.

Although my post was mostly tongue in cheek.

Kens post was to basically say that there is a conspiracy between businesses and the courts,
To have the victims continue to pay out more money to these businesses.

Of course his idea and others is to shoot on sight,
And to death with those who dare to try and steal.

Which by itself is not a reasonable reaction to thievery,
Sure may make you feel better in the moment,
But not when you are the one behind bars.

Blame a system that gives the criminals more rights than the victim,
Blame a revolving door correctional system that does little to reduce recidivism.
Blame delayed court proceedings for Criminals to only receive small sentences
Blame sunny ways and hug a thug liberalism.
Blame a system that treats criminals in jail, better than care givers at nursing homes.
Blame the non profit idealology of law enforcement agencies,

Whether the jail time and prison is too soft or too hard,
Your still going to have people who will do it otherwise.

Do you think Al Capone was afraid enough of Alcatraz to stop what he was doing?
Or anyone else?


So yeah,
In a convoluted way in this day and age one cannot solely blame the thief for being broken,
When everything else is broken worse.

Pretty much.

Yup. Police, Courts, lawyers, judges are not about justice. Its about balancing the books. Nothing more nothing less. The best cash cow for these people is divorce and family law. And suckers like us to finance it...

I would hate to live my life by this thinking just so a crook may not target me.

No offence meant Etown but Imo, if you bust your butt working and make some cash, you should be able to buy whatever you want, no matter what a crook might think. Right now I purchase stuff on the conservative side as that's what life is dictating, I hope one day to be able to say I want that and I am buying it. Screw the crooks. That's what Insurance is for as long as you do you part in trying to keep it as secure as possible.

Well the murder is very profitable business also, just think of it: all murders are sponsored by the mafia conglomerate of funeral homes, cemeteries, coffin makers, flower shops, and not to forget, the undertakers! I'm sure all these caracters supplying guns, drugs and violent video games to the generations to increase the murder rates. FOLLOW THE MONEY TRAIL.....:thinking-006:

I don't think it's a matter of "money making" for the LEO's (they work for the gov't, so they get paid no matter what). But it's more a case of they see "progress" with tickets.

For example, most people, when they get a speeding ticket, tend to slow down while the ticket memories are still fresh, which means the ticket is doing it's job.

Regarding theft, LEO's know exactly who these thieves are, they are repeat offenders, who know how to work the system. Plead guilty to a lesser charge, etc, etc. But they always return to their ways because WE make it easy for them. Most of these thefts are easy pickens.

My community, for example has had multiple car prowlings a night for the past year. Guess why? Because most of my neighbors aren't willing to lock their doors. Now I won't get into the whole "I shouldn't have to lock my car, it's my property, blah blah blah", but make it difficult for these thieves to steal, they'll go elsewhere.

Another recent example, I was in the crowsnest pass, I stopped for fuel, a brand new F350 Lariat was sitting there running, doors unlocked, windows down, keys in the ignition, while the guy was in timmies for 15 minutes, and no one else in the truck. Just because you can "afford" the toys, doesn't mean everyone else thinks you deserve them. But, if you can afford the toys, you can afford to secure your toys.

Lock your **** up.. Make it difficult for anyone to steal your stuff. Or don't, as it garuntees they'll steal your stuff before mine.

There also is ALOT more inside jobs happening. As in, disgruntled worker at (fill in dealership here), can easily get keys cut/programmed using a VIN number. And one of my friends bought a brand new SxS w/trailer, not even within 30 minutes of getting it in his driveway, was it stolen (mid-day). Definitely an inside job.

What about privatizing prisons, and forcing inmates to work for their "stay". At least we won't be paying.

RE: gov't wants theft to help Big business survive.. Wow.. AO really has gone off the deep end.. I thought these tin foil hat conversations only happened during spring fever/long winters.

When you read the Original Post - it's thought provoking for sure. I can't say I'd believe there is a conspiracy there (nor do I think Ken's saying that either) - but it is interesting how an entire chain of organizations benefit from the fine work of thieves.

I have some nice shiny stuff and it's insured for a reason. There are too many criminals out there to ruin a guy's day. Personally I'd suggest criminals be treated like criminals are treated in some other countries and we might see a reduction in crimes (or at least more people with prosthetic hands).

People work hard to be able to afford nice homes, cars, toys and it's so disgusting that some thief would take your stuff. And .... it's really not about getting insurance buy the stuff back for you, which, admittedly, might be nice to have newer stuff again BUT it's about the inconvenience, the feeling of being stolen from and violation you feel when you discover some thug has been shopping at your house.

Absolutely agree. I am tired of listening to a bunch of middle aged bellyachers crying about losing their toys.

That "system" you speak of is our legal system.The politicians, judges, lawyers, and the LEOs all make their living being a part of this legal system, so they are the ones that are allowing these thieves to remain free to reoffend. So if you really want to blame someone, blame all of those people. Yes some people make it easier for the thieves to steal their property, but there would be far fewer thefts if our legal system dealt with the thieves in at least a somewhat effective manner.

[QUOTE=JB_AOL;3566798]

There also is ALOT more inside jobs happening. As in, disgruntled worker at (fill in dealership here), can easily get keys cut/programmed using a VIN number. And one of my friends bought a brand new SxS w/trailer, not even within 30 minutes of getting it in his driveway, was it stolen (mid-day). Definitely an inside job.

QUOTE]

Speaking of inside jobs - there was a stereo install place in Calgary maybe 20-25 years ago where the owner was found to have been doing exactly that.

Installing stereos, alarms, etc... and having the persons address on the work order.

Had the keys cut during the install and obviously a way to disarm the security system.

The police would have never known or figured it out except for one small detail, when the stolen cars were recovered the quality of the removal was clean (in terms of how they removed the wires/bracket/etc..). Although the cosmetic removal stuff (like the plastic pieces on the dash were pryed and damaged as one would expect, the wires were removed back and far enough that someone noticed it would have taken someone with "expertise" to figure it out.

Furthermore, the ignitions, which had screwdrivers or scissor inserted, in some cases were not actually done correctly (in other words, to a trained eye, one could see it was made to "look like" this was the method of starting and driving the vehicle but when you turned the screwdriver (or scissors) the ignition didn't work or the wheel didn't unlock (not exactly sure on details).

So months of finding this went on and they started surveyed the victims and saw these systems were being put in at one particular place.

Within weeks they found this same place had a nightshift ...... guess what they were doing ........ lol

Thief shows up at your house, disarms your alarm with a duplicate alarm thingy, hops in and starts your car with keys they had cut weeks or months earlier, drives it into a shop and hours later they drive it and dump it somewhere (making it look like it was stolen).

I'm not 100% sure but I think they were even using the exact same shop to do the work!!

This would have infuriated me had I been one of the victims of this.

I think you forgot the insurance company to, that pays out the life insurance.
Rates keep going up.

And if the public demanded more of their legal system instead of armchair quarterbacking , that could happen.

Why is the states like that?
Because they demand it.

When it comes to Canada we are the epitome of snowflakes,
Make no mistake about it.

Our jails are basically resorts where the inmates have control,
They don't like how they get treated they complain to the lawyer, to complain to the judge , to reduce their sentence and the poor guy holding the keys is the one to blame.

And it will be your money that buys it again,


who ultimately loses when you lose your $300,000 boat (in Alberta :thinking-006: really, the most landlocked province...but ok)
You do.

Certainly not the guy that stole it.

he gets what,
18 months with time served with pre trial confinement,
and inside he learns how to steal the million dollar boat,
then he gets out of jail.

in the mean time.

you get depreciation from the insurance company so you either settle for less or you go get back what you lost.
Either way
you lose.

Is it worth it?

If it is don't come here and complain about your loss,
if you can buy the $300,000 boat to begin with'll only find sympathy in the dictionary between syphillis and the other one.

Maybe buy more drones.

your right you should,

But when a thief can merely brush your wallet and steal your info,
when a guy with a cell phone can empty your bank account,
when the response time for most thefts is hours,

you tell me what is worth losing?