Ever know someone who got caught without a PAL?
 

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know anyone who has been charged with possession of a firearm with out a valid PAL / POL? I'm not talking about charges related to other offenses, more specifically a hunter who didn't bother getting a license, or someone who let their license expire and didn't renew it.

What was the penalty that they received?

I had a high school friend who didn’t have a pal over 10 years ago get in trouble for possession of a prohibited weapon get a conditional discharge and 10 year weapons ban. I think the laws on prohibited weapons minimums have changed since than.

He had a sawed off 22 rifle he bought for $20 off a pot dealer. He had it for a few weeks was going to live in the bush for a few weeks and use to shoot small game. That never happened and he was having suicidal thoughts and brought it in the police station to surrender it. They ended up charging him.

I’ve worked with other people who had been charged with assault also have 10 year bans.

From what I remember about the Boushie case, 10 years prohibition sounds pretty standard for many firearms cases.

Yes, i know someone who just got of scot free this spring without a pal

I don’t know of anyone who has ever been asked for a pal in Alberta never mind charged.

A friend had his guns stolen and recovered.
All he had to do to get them back was reapply for his long expired PAL.

I have been asked but only once
Most times when I am stopped it is coming back from thevrange and they take one look at all the gun cases and let me go on my way!:sHa_sarcasticlol:
Cat

I assume it much depends on the officer doing the stop , A lot of them are not that enthused with the regulations and view them as a pain in the butt, BUT having said that when it comes to prohibited and altered firearms and mentions of suicide things go south in a hurry , But for the average not Pal stop , in a regular hunting season , I believe most cops will tell you to get with the program IMO

You'd think the guy would get a break for acting in good faith.

20 years ago I went to the cop shop to pay an outstanding Ctrain fine. It was outstanding, and there was a warrant, so they cuffed me, and put me through the whole deal, instead of just letting me pay it.

Remember, the police are your friends.

A young fellow(at least he was when this happened) got stopped by a mounty on a rural road while he was stopped and checking a map or something like that. The mounty saw his rifle in the truck and asked to see his PAL, His PAL was expired and the mounty seized the rifle and told him he couldn’t get it back till someone with a valid PAL came to pick up the rifle. There was a defined timeline too like, 14 or 21 days, or the rifle would be destroyed.
Bushrat bailed the fellow out. And picked up the seized rifle.

I got asked for my PAL last year by the RCMP while he was writing me up for speeding! Only the one time though.

Ha...same thing happened to me. I didn't even know I had an outstanding ticket...I think they issued it to me while I was asleep (passed out) on the train back in the College days. They ran my name after I was a witness to a big scrap outside the Back Alley....I was just sitting on the curb and eating a hot dog and watched it all go down....they ended up cuffing me and drove me to the station to sit in jail for a few hours then was processed and paid the $115 that I apparently owed......all the guys in the fight (covered in blood) got off with nothing

I have been asked at two combined F&W/RCMP checkstops. The RCMP did seize several firearms from people that could not produce a PAL. I overheard one officer tell a person that he needed to bring a valid PAL down to the station to get his firearms back.

ive been checked twice.

once while shooting in a gravel pit. CO drove down in his truck and got out with his gun unholstered but behind the door. He said you never know who you are dealing with. Checked my pal and drove away.

Next one was when i was speeding on the way to the range. He asked where i was going so i told him, he asked where the guns where so i said in the box of my truck. he asked for the usual plus my pal. came back 5 mins later with a ticket and said happy shooting.

I would have reported the guy getting out of his truck unholstered. That's unprofessional at best, considering his occupation.

I'm sure he had a good reason, we're not privy to why the officer was there and who he might expect to encounter or who he actively may be looking for. Maybe his vehicle fitted the description of some meth head armed criminal with a warrant known to be in the area. It's a sign of the times.

That's not unprofessional. That's being safe. If he came out pointing his pistol at you without any verbal commands, then I would see it as being unprofessional. Being in low ready, the CO's giving you the benefit and at the same time being able to react quickly. As bush rat said, the CO may be privy to information that would make him extra careful confronting someone with a firearm.

My wife's grandpa had a farm .22 no pal twelve years ago. he shot a strange dog on his yard, turns out it was the bad renters friends dog. They called the RCMP, the gun was seized, my FIL claimed the gun and borrowed it back to grandpa, no real trouble.


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So I take it you wouldn't mind being pulled over during hunting season for a license check and have the officer have his gun unholstered when he walks up to your vehicle? He may have been privy to some info, but Meth criminal don't usually go target shooing at gravel pits as DiabeticKripple stated. As we know, many LEOs equate firearms with criminal use. I've been checked many times by F&W and RCMP with a firearm either on my person or in clear view in my vehicle, and not one of them had pull their pistol from their holster.

I wasn't there, so I don't know the background, but if I'm out shooting and some overzealous LEO approaches me with his gun drawn because I'm simply out target shooting, I'm reporting it to his superiors. There's a difference between being cautious and being afraid in my opinion, your mileage may vary.

Why do you think it means hes overzealous and afraid if he draws his sidearm?

sigh... because in my opinion it is. Sorry to de-rail my own thread.

To be fair to whoever this law enforcement officer was that approached a complete stranger with a gun drawn of his own. Should the officer be less prepared by being holstered if this stranger holding a gun turns out to be dangerous and uses the rifle as a weapon? Sounds like the situation of shooting at the gravel ended with no one getting hurt and everyone carrying on. So drawing his firearm and giving commands worked perfectly.

What if that gravel shooter with a rifle was prohibited from firearms and he was testing a firearm that he just obtained illegally. Certain people being caught with a firearm could go directly to prison for years, and may shoot instead of being arrested. He may even feign cooperation as a law enforcement officer came closer. Someone involved in criminal behavior in possession of a firearm looks pretty much exactly the same as a legal firearms owner. Its not until the conversation and actions afterwards that gives better light on what type of person it is.

You know what? If he was seriously that concerned, he should have called in the RCMP. That would be SOP. F&W usually deals with fish and wildlife matters, not crack heads or common criminals. Can we please keep this thread on course? If you want to start a thread on when LEOs should or shouldn't unholster, go ahead. It was my mistake to make a comment on someone else's situation... my bad... I derailed my own thread.

I started this thread because I have a buddy who's POL expired many, many years ago, and he is absolutely not concerned about it. He even went as far as to take both his PAL and RPAL course a few years ago, but won't send the application in. That's wrong and that's illegal of course. However, since 1995 when all of the PAL /POL / registration crap started, I have heard of a lot of threats by government, but I honestly don't know anyone who has ever been asked for their license, other than to purchase, or asked for registrations papers, restricted or non-restricted when that was in place. I just want him to know what risk he is taking for a paperwork crime.

So I do know that people are asked for their licenses, despite me personally never been asked even while possessing firearms in front of LEOs. Thanks for those who answered and PM'd me.

Oh the drama......I doubt very much that officer pulls his gun on everybody he stops or encounters while doing his job. Something was up that day and he was following the protocol he was trained to respond with in that situation. If it happens to you you certainly can report it to their superiors and I'm sure they will look into it for you.

CO's are sworn officers of the law, can enforce or investigate anything a police officer can. It would be dereliction of duty they are sworn to uphold if they were privy to information to apprehend someone if they have the opportunity and they didn't. In fact they have superior powers of search and seizure that can allow them to search things police officers have to get warrants to search.

Most meth heads don't usually purchase gun range memberships, or have PAL's or own large properties where they can shoot, even if they did and some do, they don't want to draw attention to it with gunfire. They do tend to love guns and shooting. They tend to shoot them in out of the way locations like gravel pits, lease roads, cutlines, etc. Where if they are caught it is a good chance they would be caught by a CO as Municipal and RCMP rarely patrol in those areas but CO`s do. Where do you think they go shoot their guns?

Unfortunately ordinary law abiding people often get inconvenienced by peace officers doing their jobs. Get used to it.

:snapoutofit:
Maybe DiabeticKripple would like to share more about this? He's really the only one of us that has an opinion that counts. I know all about LEOs, have some that are friends, have some that are family in the RCMP... no need to go into the obvious of what being a law enforcement officer entails. My concern is that everyone with a gun is not a danger, which seems to be the accepted norm these days. Sorry about the "drama", but let's not make excuses for over-reaction. Or was it justified? What's DK have to say? I don't view encounters like this as "inconvenienced" like you do. That's some pretty serious business drawing a sidearm, and potentially dangerous / deadly. I sure as heck am not ready to "get used to it"

Thats just it....It isn't the norm these days, thousands of people get pulled over every day by police, and thousands of hunters, fishermen, boaters, campers get pulled over by CO's every year. Considering the numbers it is an extremely rare situation where a CO or Police officer draws a gun on somebody. Like I said there would have been some extenuating situation that we and the person being checked was unaware of going on that the CO felt the need to unholster his gun.

Bushrat, I agree with you that lots of people go about their chosen activity all the time without incident. I'm only questioning if there was actually an extenuating situation like you mention or not. It is extremely rare, we agree on that, which is why I question why the pistol was pulled. DK said the officer's response was "you never know who you are dealing with" sounds like a pretty casual reason to unholster a sidearm. I hope you are right and that there was more to the situation than some guy out target shooting. I personally still think it was wrong, but I wasn't there, I'm speculating.


So.... getting back to the original question, have you, or anyone you know, ever been asked to produce their POL/PAL? lol

Yes, read post # 10 in this thread by Dick 284,

Have also been asked to produce my PAL in a traffic stop by RCMP when my gun was present in the truck. It was a pleasant exchange, I was pulled over for rolling through a stop sign, took my drivers license and PAL to his cruiser to check it was all in order, he gave me a warning for the stop sign, no traffic ticket and wished me good luck hunting.

Things sure have changed.

I remember some 25 or so years ago a fish cop came into our hunt camp at about 10 at night. We had been drinking, with the rifles either leaning against a tree out of reach, or in the tents/campers.

He came in, no shot gun (they were not carrying sidearms at that time), just approached us, friendly, kibitzed with us a bit, asked about what we saw or if anyone shot anything, and that was it before he drove off.

Think about it. Alberta's fish cops were out in the bush without sidearms for almost 100 years, and as far as I am aware, never was there an incidence with firearms. Since they got sidearms, I still am not aware of any incidents.

We are hunters. We are not some gangbangers in the inner city. Treat us as such, and don't bring the attitude that many USA LEOs seem to have. We're all on the same side.

Its not the law abiding hunters and firearm enthusiasts that the law enforcement officer is thinking about when he approaches a stranger. Its the possibility that this is the off chance time he found someone in possession of a firearm that would shoot him to not get investigated.