Tying your own leaders?
 

I was looking through my Rubbermade of misc fishing gear and notice that I have a pretty good collection of different strength mono in there. I was wondering how many segments one needs to use when tying a leader? Would 3-4 different diameters of line from 15 lb down to 4 be enough to make decent leaders?

Many different types of mono do not make good fly fishing leaders because they are to limp.
A stiffer leader will turn over better than a limp one will.
For the most part Ii use built leader material to make my leaders.
Cat

Most of my stuff is either Berkly Big Game or Maxima Ultra Green, both fairly stiff lines. Any opinions on whether these will work as leader material?

I couldn't say Cal, I've never used either .
Maybe someone else has....
Cat

maxima ultra green is very good. for a tapered leader, start with 25/30 lb butt section, then taper down.

How many sections do I use? For instance if I were to use 4 2' sections to get from 25lb down to 6lb would that be a smooth enough taper to cast well?

depends what your fishing. if your fishing a streamer on a sink tip, you can get away with a shorter leader. level leader or only taper once or twice.


to turn over a longer leader(floating line). a butt section 1/3(sometimes more) of the over all length helps, then taper down.

some people are pretty scientific about it, there are alot of variables(type/weight of fly, water clarity, etc). but a long butt section will help turn a fly over.

basically trying to continue the taper of your fly line down to the fly.

Before tapered leaders
 

We used to have to make our own, just like you are contemplating, getting the curls out of the heavy stuff was hard, wind knots are much easier, but after you break off the tippet you can tie another one on. I don't think I'd go back.

I might tie a new tippet on an already tapered leader.

The answer to your question about how long for each section, I eventually got down to 3 pieces ending with a 2 lb tippet. I tried to get the 2 lb. section as long as the butt section would handle. then as I lost or cut pieces off (wind knots) I wouldn't have to attach a new piece for a while.

Good luck with this.

For several years I tied my own tapered leaders, the Maxima Ultragreen and Chameleon are good materials. For a starting point, you can copy the Orvis tapered leader formulas here :
http://www.finefishing.com/equipment...ifications.htm
There are many other tables that people have published on the internet. Now I use furled leaders almost exclusively. Tying your own leaders is a money saving effort, I would go through $100 in leaders a year.

Cal,

I've been building my own leaders for over 40 years. Originally it was money saving device - now it 'cause they just cast better.
Leaders should follow a couple of simple rules.
1) The butt section should be made of stiffer materials that the hinge & tippet.
2) Knots towards the line end should use barrel knots that will slide better through the guides.
3) knots towards the hinge/tippet use double surgeons knots.

The "typical" leader I use most trout work is 10' long and follows the following rules of 60% butt material, 20% hinge & 20% tippet. So it becomes 4' of 0.025", 2' of 0.018", 1' of 0.013, 0.010 & 2' of 0.008". The 25 & 21 are butt, hinge 13 & 10 with the tippet of 8.

After playing with various manufacturers products for many years, I now use Maxima Chameleon for the butt & hinge sections as it combines both the ability to be straightened readily and yet stiff enough to place the fly where you want it. The tippet is your choice. I've used most of the stuff out there and they all worked just fine. If you wish longer/lighter tippet just add it to the 0.008" section.

Some things to be considered:

1)How many leaders do you need? Tne butt section will last generally the life of the line.
2) I use a variety of lines for lake fishing. For that reason, I have have incorporated a leader loop of 0.025 @ the end of the line where leaders can be readily changed.
3) I use lake leaders of 10', 18' & 25' depending on what is fished.

A f for whatever it's worth - making your own leaders means you don't throw a lot of plastic packaging away.

So there ya' go - making your own is environmental friendly, costs less, works better - but it's not as convient.

Don

That's some great advice right there, Don, well for me worth saving!
The majority of my fly fishing these days is done in the lower reaches of the Athabasca for pike and walleye, so my leader requirements are are fairly simple, I can make do most times with non-tapered Mason, but most times if I'm after whitefish i simply barrel not in some lighter mmaterial.:)
Cat

x2....not much to add to that post other than I prefer barrel/bloodknots for all of my knots including the larger diameters.
I use Maxima for all of my leader builds,always Chameleon butt sections and either Chameleon,Clear or Ultragreen for the mid and tippet sections to match water clarity and color.
I've tried taking shortcuts early on in my leader building endeavors,but soon found out it's best to stick to tried and proven leader formulas.
Here's a good short read on "understanding leader design" as well as the published leader formulas that I use.
http://www.flyfishusa.com/tackle-tip...t-leaders.html

I can't imagine a possible fishin emergency situation where I will EVER again be forced to buy an overpriced factory tapered leader when I can build IMHO superior hand tied leaders,custom tailored to specific conditions for app.
$0.65/each.....and yes I actually did the cost/leader math one boring winter night years ago.

All the knots on homebuilt leaders drive me bug****. I've gone furled for most of my fishin'.

Back to back Uni Knots are my preffered method of line to line attatchments, is there any particular reason that I should be using blood knots and surgeon knots instead?

Knot strength,energy transfer between leader sections,compact/neatness of bloodknots.

1)Bloodknots retain something like 80% breaking strength.I use it for all my leader knots other than the finest of diameters/tippet etc.,where I use the slightly more efficient(90%) triple surgeon.I've read claims that the Uniknot when used to join sections of mono only retains 50% breaking strength?
2)the energy transfer between sections joined with Bloodknots is more efficient and more truly aligned then surgeon knots which tend to have a slight kink to them.FWIW,I typically tie 12' leaders for Atlantic salmon tapered from 30lb Chameleon down to 8lb tippet,and can "cast" these leaders straight to the tippet in the man cave using only my arm with the butt held in my finger tips.
3)Bloodknots are more compact and neater in appearance than the bulkier surgeons which I've found to be far more prone to tangle/catch on tags etc.A properly tied,tightly trimmed bloodknot is just simply the "proper" knot to use IMHO.

Great thread !:happy0034:

I've just used cinch knots in my leaders. Seems to work for the last 30 years. Maybe it would be a problem with fish over 12lbs.

Deffinatly agree with you on surgeon knots, not a fan myself. Mostly just because I hate pulling an 18" tippet through an overhand knot 4-5 times. Been a long time since I've used a blood knot, I'll have to try using them next season. I've just always found back to back Uni's fairly tidy and easy to tie, I can see the tags sticking out each end causing problems though. I'll have to look into what the breaking strength is.

Don Andersen's advice is right on and consistent with what has been successful for me for more than 50 years of flailing the waters.

Rookie question. Where does a guy find maxima chamelion in edm? I think i may sub in ultra green. Any tips on a 9 ft 4wt trout leader for chironomids?

You probably want more like a 12 foot leader minimum for chironomids. You can adjust a quick released indicator to practically any depth and be effective from shore. If you're fishing out of a boat, you'll want 15' leader minimum and the same indicator.

Leader should consist of 10 feet of straight 8lb bulk fluorocarbon line attached to a tiny swivel, then 2 feet of 4x fly tippet to your fly. Preferably fluoro.

Maxima clear is actually a closer substitute for Chameleon than the Ultragreen,with the same "stiffness" properties.Therefore if it's just a straight out substitute that your looking for,or for butt sections etc.,try the clear,unless you're actually looking to build a softer leader for dryfly fishing or wutever,then UG might a better sub for the mid section and smaller?
Can't speak for EDM,but in CGY,Walmart of all places that in my experience only stocks a bare minimum of anything flyfishing related,and what they do stock is generally junk,actually has lots of Maxima Clear at a great price.

You can buy different Maxima lines at Wholesale Sports (I know for sure the South Edm location). I've bought both clear and UG there.

One a side note, I typically use "modified" store bought leaders, just because I don't like all the knots in the thick sections of line. Personal bias.

My typical stream leader is about 12.5-14 feet, and an average of 16 feet (for floating line work) on lakes and ponds. What I do it attach about 2-3 extra feet of Maxima for a butt section, and attach it with a uni knot, coated with a carefully small amount of Zap. I also chop off the stock 12-24 inches of "tippet" length on the leader (the uniformly small line at the very tip of the leader) and then attach my own tippet, usually another 3 feet. When I do this, I'll be, say a 4x leader and then attach 4x tippet. I'm just extending the length to what I prefer. So when all is said and done I have a leader that is roughly 12-13 feet (depending on the leader I started with) with a custom butt section and longer tippet. I'll repair the leader and add in sections as the season goes on, and by the end of the year I usually have 3 sections of tippet material in the leader that have been used to keep the taper and the over length.

Nick

Yup - Wally world has Chamelion. I have found the Ultragreen and especially the clear stuff about worthless as leader material - away too flexible. Currently using Bass pro Extreme Flourocarbon as per my post above. Chamelion is great leader material and don't let the color deter you 'case it doen't seem to bother the fish. I use nothing but Chamelion for Atlantic Salmon fishing.

Maxima Clear has the same stiffness properties as Chameleon but yes,M-UG is indeed softer than both Clear and Chameleon.
No argument here,Chameleon is #1 for the peat stained/tea colored waters back east,but I find it stands out like a sore thumb in the gin clear and/or green tinged ES streams.I still make my butt sections with Chameleon here,mainly because I have lots of 30 & 25,but i use Clear or UG for the bizness end.

Don:

Anyone into furled leaders.

I have seen some made by gentlemen from mainland europe. Very supple. Not sure of the butt section though.

I was thinking of making a board for them.


Whoops, sorry Taco.

Grey...

Furled leaders are generally only furled for 5' or so then they transition to mono>tippet. They are reported to work well for catching tiny BROOKIES!

For larger fish, more technical conditions, varying water depths, extreme wind ---- well, just about anything but tiny BROOKIES, you best stick to mono or mono/floro crosses.

Catch ya'

Don

I guess the two 10+ pounders I pulled out of Sheridan on a fluoro furled leader don't listen to the experts. Furled leaders turn over varying size flies better than anything else.

Now. Now badger,

You all now that them trout in BC are genetically modified to be over-stuffed and more than a tad lazy.
Thats why you all can make furled leaders work.
Now if those were feisty Alberta trout, the story would've ended much differently!

Don

As I see it, the problem would not be with making and using a furled leader, the problem is finding a 10 pound trout in Alberta. :acigar: On with the discussion, what do others use for their leader material?