Cops VS Gun Owners AGAIN!
 

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/05/11/lorne-gunter-police-are-stigmatizing-lawful-firearm-owners/
Lorne Gunter: Police are stigmatizing lawful firearm owners

Lorne GunterMay 11, 2011 – 8:00 AM ET | Last Updated: May 10, 2011 4:59 PM ET
Those of us who have called for an end to the long-gun registry have often focussed on its cost — at least $2-billion — and its uselessness in stopping crime. But the greatest damage done by Bill C-68 has been the wedge it has driven between police and law-abiding Canadians who own guns for hunting, sport shooting or vermin control on farms.
Consider the case of Henry Barnes.
To say the least, Mr. Barnes is a colourful character. The 76-year-old also goes by the name of Johnny Sombrero. He is a former motorcycle-gang member. Indeed, he is a founder and former leader of Toronto’s Black Diamond Riders. The North York resident also owns more than 100 guns, or at least he did until January of 2010, when Toronto police burst into his apartment and seized them all, despite the fact all of them were properly registered and locked in gun safes.
What makes Mr. Barnes’ case indicative of the damage done by C-68 is the reaction of other gun owners. They are mostly on his side and against police — vehemently. Before C-68 came into effect in 1998, they likely would have instinctively sided with police.
Although he has not been an angel for much of his life, Mr. Barnes has no criminal record, either. Nevertheless, he claims police never approached him peacefully before the day they forced their way into his home to examine his gun lockers. They never phoned him or came to his door asking to take a look around. Their default was to treat him as a danger to the community from minute one.
When they did phone, it was to tell him — erroneously — that his car was being broken into. When he opened his apartment door to go check, he claims a big police officer lunged towards him, grabbed him by the neck and pushed him to the floor where a civilian member of the force fell on him, breaking some of his ribs. He then lay on the floor at gunpoint for five hours while officers “tore apart” his apartment looking for guns.
Mr. Barnes is currently on trial for unsafe storage. Despite all of his guns being locked away, police and Crown prosecutors claim some of the safes in which his guns were stored, as well as some of the locks used to secure them, were inadequate. That has now become a crime in Canada for which guilty-until-proven-innocent police tactics are the norm.
But why treat Mr. Barnes like a deranged maniac from the get-go? Why send dozens of officers to his home as a first response? Was he making threats, standing psychotic and half-naked in the street waving his weapons around?
Had police made one or more polite attempts to gain access to Mr. Barnes’ home and been rejected, I could understand their ton-of-bricks tactics. Had they served him with a valid warrant, only to have him refuse entry, perhaps their methods would be appropriate.
But increasingly, police are going to full-force tactics whenever firearms are in a home, whether or not the guns are involved in a crime. For this change in attitude and approach, I blame C-68.
Our current gun control legislation has made gun ownership an anti-social behaviour, in and of itself. And it has created gun crimes that never existed before.
Far too often now, police and prosecutors are dubious of the mental stability of anyone who owns a gun, just because they own one. This is because C-68 has created a stigma regarding gun ownership. It has put the obligation on the gun owner to prove his interest in firearms is legitimate and not a sign of some sociopathic disorder.
The law has also made a “gun” crime out of failure to fill out registration paperwork properly or to store one’s guns so securely that criminals cannot steal them and use them in real crimes.
Pitting police against law-abiding gun owners has strained the relationship between the two and put at risk the idea that policing derives its legitimacy from the consent of the policed. For this reason more than any other, the Tories should repeal Bill C-68 — not just the gun registry — now that they have their majority.
National Post

Pretty sad state of affairs in this country if you ask me. Hopefully Harper can fix these problems with a majority.

i want the end of C68 as much as anyone. but i'm also a LEO. and this article is obviously missing something huge. because we dont go a raid a house without a reason.

and i hate to say it, but any POS motorcycle gang member probably deserves it..

like all statistics and news reports, they show exactly what the author wants them to show and little more.

I have to say it... that attitude coming from an officer of the law concerns me.

Yes, police officers never do anything wrong or against the law do they...:rolleye2:

Another time we just have to wait to get the whole story. First reactions are usually very one-sided hopefully there is more to this story if not then Ryry4 is right a very sad state of affairs.

yeh, cos the hells angels are a charity organisation.. do lots of good for the community.

what i meant was, he has probably done something in his charity activities with his motorcycle gang that has attracted the attention of the police and they have acted on it.
ive yet to meet a motorcycle gang member who wasnt a criminal of some form (and im not talking about the sunday riders club)

Considering the negative bias the media has against firearms owners in general, this article is really disturbing. When the media starts defending a firearms owner, instead of the police, it sure looks like a police issue now doesn't it?

Police do not raid homes without reason? BS. They can/will/do raid homes 'suspected' of a lot of things without much in the way of actual proof. All it takes is a complaint. A warrant would be neat. Where was the warrant in this case?

Also, I see the man was charged with a firearms offence. Now the locks he used were judged 'inadequate?'

Last, and most important point. Who made YOU Judge and Jury? Wether or not you or I believe him to be 'guilty of something'... you still have procedures to follow, and cannot trample all over a person's civil rights just because you have a badge and feel like you are performing a public service.

Not to single you out, but really, who has the power? The citizen or the police officer who is EMPOWERED by the public to hold that trust?

Gee, look, when you hold the 'Blue Line' people really do look upon the profession with derision.:mad0030:


Ditto. That is scary right there.

Nor do they drive drunk, commit homicides, or use drugs. As far as Angels Fearing To Tread, BLUE is the new 'angelic' colour.:sHa_sarcasticlol:

im not trying to get into an argument, but like you said yourself, they act on suspicion. and it's now for the courts to decide.

and, maybe the police haven't told the reporter all the facts??? you seem to have a read a lot into what wasnt mentioned.

it doesnt say they didnt have a warrant. again, an example of clever use of the english language by the reporter. it says they didnt serve him and give him chance to refuse. which if they suspect he is a real bad person then that makes sense.

i think it's sad how you have such a jaded view of the police. we are normal people, many of us enjoy the same stuff as you. and it's sad you jump to the defence of a gang member just because you dont like the C68 law..

i already said i dont like that law, it does nothing to stop criminals and just hinders us law abiding gun owners. but normally there's no smoke without fire. and articles can be written to convey any message you want regardless of the facts.

Lorne Gunter. "Police are stigmatizing Lawful Firearm Owners." What a JOKE!!!

This guy is not a typical firearms owner!!! The "Former Biker"?? He was the LEADER of a motorcycle gang who's rival was Satan's Choice.

This article is so slanted it's utterly pathetic. They are sure to paint the picture so people picture an old geezer in his apartment and a bunch of thug cops picked on him just because he owns too many guns. The guy is described as "colourful" which makes you think that he is a little bit of a character. The truth is that Johnny Sombrero a VERY bad guy. These bikers do a lot more than ride Harleys and collect stuffed animals for sick children.

I'm with you on this. The cops are digging their own hole now. Too many attitudes and situations where people get kicked in the face ore beat up. I'm sure there is more to the story but the fellow is 76 and a law abiding gun owner and still had to aly on the floor for 5 hours with broken ribs. The cops are judge and jury now too?

This guy may be the scum of the earth and need to be dealt with ;). The fact of the matter there has been more than one occasion where the police wanted to make a statement at a legal firearm owners expense. What's stopping them from knocking on my door next?

Crunchie is right, the guy has committed actions in his past that have made him a suspicious person. Yeah, the police have thier issues but really guys, bikers don't just ride to be free. They steal, murder, pedal drugs and women. They are a disgrace and deserve all the cops attention they get.

The article is a joke for trying to tie gun legislation to the issue of this guy getting some attention from the police.

Did you even read the article? They aren't charging him for something he did in the bike gang...

RCMP?

Sure, they may have a reason, that doesn't mean the reason is justifiable


Too bad my CPS buddies don't post here. They could give dozens of recent examples of unnecessary and unjustified raids and arrests simply because the word "GUN" is involved. I have a hard time accepting what you say as a LEO.

My personal experience, and the experiences of several people I know in Calgary, disagree with this comment! All of us have a completely clean criminal record, even AFTER having our homes raided by TACT.


I'll give a short example as to why one of these raids was intiated.

A Calgary Gunsmith, fully licenced and registered, was taken down at gunpoint IN HIS SHOP, had his shop and HOME ransacked, because a person called police when they saw a customer walk into the shop with a gun.....

C-68 made this action by the police legal.....

Charge him for the stuff he is suspected of doing. It Says he has no record. he's 78. in all those years of being a badass the cops couldn't make one charge stick? So now harass him with some chicken**** actions.
He must have been a terrible threat to make him lie on the floor for 5 hour with broken ribs.

I'll support the cops when they are right but when they are not and pull some of the crap they have lately they need to be locked up.

Serve and protect, not harass and assault.

Without 'full disclosure' (both sides of the story), that one-sided article is hardly worth discussing.

TF

Roy Green: It’s time to stop persecuting people who defend themselves

National PostMay 11, 2011 – 12:13 PM ET
A predictable din from opposition benches notwithstanding, the Harper government will now speedily move forward with its crime omnibus legislation.
Unlike recent years of Conservative minority governance there will be no opposition-dominated parliamentary committee assembled to pass swift and condemning sentence of the Conservatives without opportunity for appeal. This legislation will be introduced, read into the record, passed, endorsed by the blue members of the Red Chamber and duly become law.
Next item: addressing law governing defence of self, family and property.
Cases in point:
* Toronto grocer David Chen faced criminal charges and several loopy days in court for apprehending and holding a multi-convicted thug engaged in theft from Mr. Chen’s business. The court of public opinion immediately delivered a verdict. If Mr. Chen was guilty of anything, it was of taking appropriate action.
* Ontario resident Ian Thomson awoke last August to three individuals firebombing his home while shouting death threats. Thomson, a former firearms instructor, retrieved a legally owned handgun and fired over the heads of the attackers. Security cameras captured the incident for police and Crown prosecutors to review.
For his efforts Mr. Thomson had his guns confiscated and faced criminal prosecution. Again the crown, this time by its own admission overreached, eventually dropping the careless use of a firearm and pointing a firearm charges. Because? No reasonable chance of conviction.
Predictable chatter surfaced that Ian Thomson should have called police; that resorting to using a firearm to defend his life and property was excessive. Ridiculous. Excessive was the state and its agents defining a citizen under violent attack as a criminal. As for calling police? David Chen did that on more than one occasion and without satisfactory result.
* Lawrence Manzer of New Brunswick, a former member of Canada’s military, currently faces criminal charges for assisting his neighbour Brian Fox, also a retired member of this nation’s armed forces. Fox and Manzer were victims of break-ins and vandalism who made the help call to police. ‘Sorry, we can’t take action unless the perpetrators are caught in the act’ they were told.
Today Lawrence Manzer relates how not long after he heard a commotion at Fox’s home and rushed outside with an unloaded shotgun to assist his neighbour, who had confronted three individuals on his property. Drunken teens it turned out, one of whom received a fine.
Brian Fox was arrested for assault, another charge eventually dropped. Lawrence Manzer continues to face possession of a weapon for a purpose dangerous to public peace criminal prosecution.
Mr. Manzer says his trial date has been moved to July 14. In an e-mail he adds “this is not about me, it is about all Canadians rights protecting their life and property. They (Crown) are bent on spending huge amounts of your tax dollars to have me convicted and to set an example.”
Canada’s law enforcement agencies continue to engage in tactics of intimidation toward law-abiding citizens who dutifully jumped through excessive and intrusive bureaucratic hoops in order to legally possess a firearm. Thompson and Manzer are cases in point.
The Conservative government’s public relations campaign supporting the omnibus crime bill will speak to the need to protect society from the criminal. Fine. It is time also to adjust the philosophy adopted by Pierre Trudeau’s Liberals in 1971. A philosophy which had the then solicitor General for Canada inform Parliament that from that day forward the justice system would concentrate on the “rehabilitation of the individual” and “not on the protection of society.” A philosophy which clearly continues to guide the application of criminal justice.
This federal government should write “protection of society” back into law, including the right of the individual to act in defence of self, family and property without fear of undue and unwarranted prosecution. The so-called Castle doctrine would do the job nicely. Please look it up and decide for yourself.
National Post

Really? You really believe that statement? I find that sad, without discussion how on earth would any of us know about these incidents?

Sorry to disappoint:) I finished all mt prerequisites for the RCMP. My RPAT score was very close to 500.... and I was notified in 2 days after completion of the selection process (background check was 100% as was the psyche/lie detector test). In fact I was even offered $$$ to go down to Depot (and this was as recent as 3 years ago). Needless to say, I did not choose to walk down that path for reasons that are my own. To this day I still have the lie detector questionnaire as it is pretty cool. Same for the letter from the RCMP themselves.

While this fella probably has done some misdeeds in the past, what about the unsubstantiated charges? Is it charge for everything, then TRY to prove something? If it is, citizens are in a lot more trouble than they think, and to wit the country itself.

Perhaps I was not exactly clear. I am not a fan of any gang. But that does not diminish a person's rights to DUE PROCESS.

If what I wrote offends anyone, that is not my intent. I believe the RCMP have a tough job to do. But it is not a law issue, or even a human rights issue. Revolving door sentancing, paper crimes, lawyers who brow beat technical details to discredit and throw out cases etc. That is the worst.

I am a huge fan of the RCMP. The force does need to do some internal 'housecleaning' though. And it should not be handled by a civvie dressed up as top cop. It should be handled within the force. Kinda like the good old days:) A few months in Red Earth or Alert bay as posted would do wonders for attitude adjustment.

Had they simply knocked on his door, with a search warrant, this wouldn't be a big issue. The fact that they deceived a 76 year old man in order to get him to open his door, then charged in and assaulted him breaking his ribs in the process, put such a negative spin on the entire situation.

I am CPS. Nothing you have posted rings true to me.

if you read the article you would see it states the guy has no criminal record, at 76 years old with no criminal record I doubt he want's one now,it didn't mention a warrant in the article but I thought we lived in a country where we are innocent til proven guilty and have rights,if the cops come to my door and do the same thing and make up false charges your dam right I would be on global at 6pm to tell my side of it, the cops haven't responded yet because they are making up their side of the story as we speek.

That's scary to hear... Either you are uninformed, or have the blinders on.

I've lived through it. So have many others in Calgary.

Yeah, I read the article and thanks for the cut Trav. The article is trying to get public support of quashing legislation by using a questionable character as a sob story. I can't think of a worse idea. Why not focus on the misuses of the legislation against upstanding citizens as mentioned here in other posts?

When is the last time we read about a gun collector hurting anybody? When is the last time we read about a cop hurting somebody? Maybe the old biker bugger had a stapler in his hand.

You are trying to defend something they bring upon themselves. We have four of them up on perjury charges right now.

This is an excellent article by one of Canada's few conservative journalists.

The Barnes case is one of many fishing expeditions that have been carried out in the GTA by police looking for any excuse to take a person's gun away over the past couple of years. Other cases similar to this one can be viewed on the Canadian Firearms Digest. All these cases have reports from the CBC and Toronto Star for those of you who think these media outlets are Canada's balanced reporting bastions of truth.

Lorne Gunter makes two other very important points.

Just removing the gun registry is useless unless Bill C-68 with all of its criminal elements in section 91 and section 92 are included.

Also, Bill C-68 places at risk the idea that "policing derives its legitmacy from the consent of the policed". This fact, derived from Peels Polcing Principles seems to upset some of the national socialists on this thread.

ok, this is just turning into a ****ing match.. i'm out after this.

as the saying goes "before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes"

with that in mind, if anyone wants a ride along to see the realities of what we do, get in touch and i will help you out.

i'm not saying the police are perfect. especially GTA and area. but 99.99999% of the time officers do what they think is best at the time and hope to go home safely.

unfortunately sometimes that does infringe on innocent people. but sometimes its a case of better safe than sorry. we as an institution treat gun calls seriously, because unfortunately people do shoot at us.

remember, like i said, i want C68 gone. i want to have freedom to act as a sensible law abiding citizen, and i dont see how having a piece of paper saying i can go to the range helps anyone (among numerous other faults of C68).....

Had they simply knocked on his door, with a search warrant, this wouldn't be a big issue.

Exactly!!!!

The incidents in Calgary that myself and others have experienced could have been quickly, safely, and completely resolved IF the police simply asked to discuss the concern. They didn't have to immediatley draw their guns as a first reponse!

I was told by a Calgary CPS Sergeant that it was Protocol
to call tactical whenever any complaint mentioning a gun is reported.

This is NOT CPS Protocol. :scared:

I've enjoyed Lorne Gunter's articles in the past and have great respect for the man. However, I do agree that he missed the boat on this one. Federal is 100% when stating that this is not an example that should be utilized to criticize the failed gun registry.

General anti-firearm public will not side with us when they read that a biker boss was searched over firearms issues. These antis could care less about the police entering that premise or the law(s) that give them authority to enter. To these antis, they'll see and believe that a biker got what he deserved.

I also agree with crunchiespg that there is a lot more to this story than what was written in Lorne's article. It is foolish to believe that the incident unfolded exactly as written.

Also, this sombrero guy would not be the first person "never convicted" of crimes even though his file(s) may contain numerous incidents in which he was linked but guilt was not proven. He also wouldn't be the first person to conduct illegal activities beyond what was done legally to deflect or not raise suspicion! That isn't rocket science!

It is absolutely naive to take crunchiespg to task for stating his belief in the type of character associated with the sombrero guy. LEO intelligence systems enable them to arrive at conclusions that some members of the general public would never believe or refuse to believe could possibly exist!

If general knowledge indicates that this sombrero guy has been a biker and continues to be a biker, the police will combine that information with their intelligence. Intelligence that is obviously on a need to know basis; i.e. only for police or other enforcement officers.

Factor in that this guy has enough guns to arm half the Hells Angels in Canada and you have all the rationale in the world to believe that knocking on his door asking to see his guns is not a very good idea!

It appears that the police acted legally and appropriately! We should all be happy about that!