Braided Lines
 

So I'm having some incredibly frustrating problems with braided lines. I picked up a spool of Suffix 832 on Friday and, due to a series of backlashes and subsequent birds nests, it's gone. Other than this, I loved the sensitivity and strength this line provided. But 20 bucks every 5 days of fishing isn't exactly sustainable for me.

So I figured before I go out and pick up another spool of braid, I'd ask and see if someone else has had this problem and managed to fix it. My friend has also gone through a massive amount of line in a very short time using a mixture of Fireline, Power Pro and Suffix. It has to be something I/we are doing wrong.

Any help would be great, thanks.

What type/model of reel do you use?

you were a good baitcast fisherman prior to going braid?

The reel is a Shimano spinning reel but I don't know the model off hand.

To answer you Chub, I had very very few tangles while fishing mono. I finished the day yesterday with my girlfriend's rod that was in the trunk after mine ran out of line and never had a tangle.

So something just occured to me...is braided line a bad idea on a spinning reel???

carterM,
It is hard to say what is going on without seeing first hand HOW you use your reel/line. I have never had any problems with braid on spinning reels but I try to pay attention during every retrieve on how the line is winding on the spool. I use everything from 10 to 50 lb test, mostly Sufix Performance braid, PowerPro and lately Sufix 832.
I wish I could go fishing with you so I can be more helpful. I am in Calgary though... sorry :)

no....itsa good idea
but a couple thing make it tough to deal with
1 over filling the spool
2 rip retrieving can cause problems
3 filling small spools with heavy line can cause peeling too which ends in a fook up.

if you see a stray loop on your spool dont try cast it out...it will peel and cause a birdsnest most times.....hand pulll the line till the loop is out.

Well, I was still getting birdsnests when I only had enough line left for a cast plus about 20 yards so I don't think overfilling is the problem.

What is rip retrieving?? Just retrieving too fast?

I don't think the spool's too small. It gives yardages (as in the amount of line to spool onto it) for 8 through 12 lb test. I was using 10 so, it being so thin, I'd think it'd be too small if anything, although that doens't really make sense.

As far as seeing stray loops, that's almost always what happens. I'm used to casting it out with mono so that's what I tried. Clearly...didn't work.

I've heard of the finer braids burying themselves in the spool if you snag/hook a fish and your drag is too tight. I loosened mine off alot but the problem won't go away :(

Well, I was just throwing spoons from shore at Wabamun. Just a straight cast and retrieve. I'd get stray loops and then I'd try to cast it out (I know better now, thanks Chub) and end up with the worst bloody birdsnest I'd ever seen.

I've only ever seen stray loops pop up if I'm reeling in slack line. But a #2 Len Thompson doesn't leave much slack :angry3:

thats what ripretrieving does it trenches the line....then the trenched line peels the line off the spool from the inner winds. The stop and go with heavy lures causes a inconsistant wrap. This can be solved some what with a stiffer rod. The floppy soft rods actually make matters worst

the big loop comes from excessive slack when you engage the reel. a common problem with reels with no backstop.
as a experiment hand engage your bail....i almost always do...its a habit from the days went bail springs used to break often

to add onto chubbs post try taking off all the line and spooling it alot tighter.

Sorry for all the questions Chub. What is a backstop on a reel? I'll give closing the bail manually a try to see what happens.

As far as the rod goes...it's DEFINATELY soft. There's times I think it's going to snap when casting. I was going to be in the market for a new rod soon anyways. Maybe it's going to be sooner than later.

Ya I thought that was possibly the problem. The line is all off already...in big balls in the garbage :(

I spliced some more line onto the stuff I had on the reel yesterday with a blood knot. That extra stuff was spooled on good and tight and it still happened. I had my friend hold the spool tight while I reeled it on. It was tight enough that the rod was bent.

awwe too bad....well try and wrap the line 2-3 times over and then tie the knot works alt better.

So is 5 or 6 too many wraps then? The knot was pretty thick and I know it was causing some knots later on once I got down to it again after a few more tangles :(

It was a frustrating day.

when yourturning your handle...is there a slop in the handle if you reverse direction? good reels have No slop.....stop is stop.
the slop or lack of anti reverse and a rod that flops around like a wet noodle is causing those loops in your spool.

Even hard to engage reels cause a wind loop on a spool.....you see a guy having to put extra ommmmffff into getting his reel to engage....normally he will back off the handle and take a good run at getting the reel engaged....theres a garanteed loop....combine that with a floppy rod making river dance moves...and now you have a big spool loop or multiply loops.

cast and its a birdsnest

If I try to reverse direction, it'll go until the bail is pointing straight up (it has one of those "quickfire" triggers on it). So it'll go backwards up to 99% of a rotation, depending on where in it's rotation it's at when you start the reverse motion.

Having to back off to get the reel engaged makes a ton of sense. I don't conciously do that but I'll have to keep an eye on it next time I'm out.

Could closing the bail a hair before the lure hits the water cause any problems here??

asa experiment don use the trigger feature.....i know guys who use it and have no issues....but we all do things a little different


closing the bail after the lure hits the water will help

Well I've got a few things to try out. I already own the fireline so it's not like I'm blowing money by buying more.

I'll try manually openning and closing the bail and see how that goes. Hopefully this'll solve this problem. I was using my gf's rod with mono yesterday and the loss in sensitivity is just insane...

are you using a swivel with your lures? I do know that sometimes if you dont use a swivel, the twisting action of the lure can increase line twisting, which will lead to more tangles and birds nests. I use a swivel with all my lures and have never had any tangle problems with my braid. i use 8 pound power pro on a pflueger reel with a 7'0" ML st. croix rod... no problems yet.

Kind of off topic but I heard swivels are worst things invented only time someone should use them is when there being used on a herring dodger for trolling... An only time I use a swivel is when it's connected to a leader or I just tie line str8 to the hook :-)

bead chains are a must when using dodgers an kelp cutter for sure
but i use a inline ant swivel at my braid to flourocarbon connection when casting any hardware. This doesnt interfere with lure action and stops twisting

Braid on spinning reel.
 

Try adding a Good swivel and make a few Long casts with a heavy lure. This will help spool with no twists. Also, I find Fused Super Line works better on a Spinning Reel than Braid. 2 1/2 cents. All said, I prefer good, limp co-poly
over anything.

How about when you cast out, have your finger right by where the line is coming off and just prior to the hook hitting the water, put some light pressure on the line coming off the spool. You can also use this to help control the distance your hook goes out. This would help prevent any excess line from coming off the spool once your hook has hit the water.

Great read chubbs. I have been having this problem lately as well. I used braids all last year and i didnt have this problem till this season. I had changed the line on my spools so i was thinking it was how it was spooled on or something different about the line. This makes alot of sense. Diagnosing my issues with the loops against your causes however........

My reel engages right a way and the anti reverse is great. My rod is definitely not wet noodle like. I dont use quick shot reels. The only thing I don't do is close my bail manually. However, i do believe I know why I am getting my loops now. it is one of 2 things

1. not properly applying tension to my line after my casts before reeling in- cast out, immediately drop the rod tip and start reeling rather than ensuring proper tension

2. I have been chucking more cranks with my gear and I think I have become sloppy with my technique. adding more random twitches to my retrieve. But most importantly holding the rod tip low and more out infront of me then off to the side. So when i twitch i twitch low and slightly to one side but at the end of the twitch I move my rod tip more forward infront of me creating extra slack in the line.

Great read. i think my problem will be solved :happy0034:

When castin braid line, always close bail manualy and after that pull the line snug(this is where your loosy goosy loop forms, and on the next cast that loose loop will give out more line than is needed, and voila you have yourself a birdsnest ).

Set your drag just tight enough to have a good hookset, at the end of a hookset it should give out a few clicks of line.

Buy a good quality reel, $100+ shimano/daiwa will work great, you need something that will spool your braid in nice even layers without twist. Braids like faster ratio reels, something over 5.0:1.

Fresh new braid has a lot of memory in it, mostly because of protective coating. You need a good long day of fishing to break it in and get it nice and limp.

When casting make sure you load your rod properly, if your rod is too big or too small for a certain lure it will cause problems for sure.

Your best bang for the money is Power Pro, nothing beats it. I've tried many different braid lines(stren,sufix, spiderbraid,p-line, daiwa tournament/samurai, varivas y8, robinson, trabucco... ), but nothing beats value and performance of powerpro(varivas y8 is awesome, but for that money you better be catching tuna fish with it).

If you do abit of scouting online you can find braid lines for cheap, last time i purchased powerpro was out of Florida at $8 a spool(150yds), it is not always available but when it is i load up.

When spooling on a new braid do not overtightn, just put it through the first guide in your rod(big one above the reel). You do not have to put mono first, just put a thin rubber band over empty spool and attach braid, no worries it will not slip. When spooling your reel just squeeze the line between your index finger and thumb, put just enough pressure to keep any slack out(soaking your fresh spool in some luke warm water helps it seat even better).

Do not lay your braid on the floor when spooling, stick it on a screwdriver and get someone to hold it for you.

Good luck!

Last year I used Fireline 30 lb for the first time and re spooled some of my spinning reels with it again this year. I am also trying the Suffix 832 this year in 30 lb. The Suffix cast further, but both lines will snarl on me when switching lures. Say I am using a lighter jig for instance and move to a heavier spoon I almost always have to make a second cast and pull off line and then reel it in and recast. After I do that it is fine until I change lures again. It just seems the different weights of lures affects how the line winds on. I really like the strength of both lines. Last year I got a snag so I wrapped a stick around the line so I didn't cut my hands and pulled in a bunch of mono along with a rubber tailed jig, a spoon and a rattlin rap.

My Daiwa and my old Mitchells never birdsnest, but my smaller spool reels ALWAYS do. I Think it's the spool diameter. And the engage thing, about backing up and taking a run at it,, well the Mitchell never needs that, nor does the Diawa or the Pfluegger,, just a reel that cannot be named (so why do I use it???) because it balances nicely on a certain rod. I also find that controlling the cast out with my index finger helps avoid the evil loopy loop. Braid doesn't have the same memory as the other lines I find.

im not trying to start a poop show with the poster who recomeends the screw driver method to install line.....i just do it differently.

for a baitcaster i have no problems with the screwdriver method......the line in being installed the same way its coming off the manufacturers spool

for a spinning reel the refill spool should be facing the reel so the line on the refill spool comes off the edges...not rolling off.

First i put my reel on a icefishing short rod......put about a foot of baby bath warm water in the sink or tub......put the line in the water
if its braid....i tie a simple granny knot to the spool and put on one wrap of electrical tape.
If its a short spool which many new braids are i will use a mono backing

now i grab a wet kitchen sponge and grasp the line and the rod with the sponge between the first and second eye on the rod....start winding

After about 20 winds stop allow slack to form in the line.....if the line twists or even begins to make a motion to twist....flip the refill spool in the water....now your good...refill away

Not a problem chub, i believe you have more experience and know what you're doing. I will try your method, seems like birdsnestproof :)

However i have not experienced any problem with "my" way of spooling.

My head tells me it doesn't matter if you're taking line off the spool by winding it off, simply beacuse that's the way spool was filled at factory. I highly doubt that they wind it over the edge of spool.

To be perfectly honest, when i'm in rush all i do is put the fresh spool between my toes, keep it snug so it doesn't roll off on itself, and spool it on the reel. Works good but i have to be carefull first few casts.(go slow as your toes might start smoking :) )

Gustav- Yes braids have less memory than mono or fc, but they still have it, take a fresh pack of powerpro or suffix and compare it with slightly used line and you'll see. It also cuts skin a lot easier when fresh :)

My experience is based on 4-10lb braid lines, i rarely use anything stronger than that, mostly 8lb that's good enough for me and fish i catch. I don't do bait fishing, jigging and stickbaits is my cup of tea.

ya we all have a different method and it works

the reason for my method is the spooled line is neutral as you state....but when you now wind it on the spinning reel you are adding a 90 degree twist if you roll it off. By taking it off the edge your replacing it exactly neutral again.

Does it make a real big difference with braid....nah maybe not