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Was it the pistol or a unrestricted firearm that he was charged for unsafe storage?
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They submitted hear say evidence and the judge allowed it. Thats a massive mistake that the judge and prosecution should have prevented. So to counter any expert in any field all we need in a court of law are 2 random dudes to take the stand and say otherwise. Your cop friend presses charges for a crime not defends someone from it. Their job isnt to determine whos guilty or not.. hes got an opinion just like everyone else. Thats about it. |
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I'm confused now what grounds there is to not allow their testimony? |
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I'd also suggest you refrain from smart aleck comebacks which you are want to take part in. |
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In that respect, ALL members opinions do have value. If, as you say, my theories are nonsense, then I would be pleased to here you quote them and refute them with specific arguments, instead of making unfounded and unsupported accusations simply proclaiming my arguments to be nonsense and limited in knowledge. If you believe that I have misreprented verifiable facts, and that my opinions are inconsistent, and that I possess limited knowledge, then please prove it with specific examples. And AOF is very much a firearms forum, as much as it is a hunting forum, and a trapping forum, and a fishing forum, as evidenced by the fact that these discussion groups all exist here. However, perhaps I did get a little carried away in describing you as pro-Crown and questioning your agenda. You're right. I haven't been here long enough to really know you enough to make that claim. |
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And, thank you for agreeing that my opinions are as valid as any other member, regardless of post count or seniority. :) |
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In this, I am in full agreement. |
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It was flawed evidence that the judge and prosecution should not have allowed. Who needs experts when you have a dude whos shot a gopher 40 yrs ago.... David tanovich is one of the lawyers amongst many others who have dived into this topic. |
It is not flawed evidence at all.
The crown firearms expert had argued that the hangfire would have lasted at most 2-3 seconds, and the defence produced two witnesses to counter that argument with their own testimony regarding their experience with hangfires that lasted significantly longer than 3 seconds. Maybe you don't like it - but that is exactly how evidence and counter evidence works. Don't tell the world that hang fires last "up to three seconds" and then bitch when people come forward and counter your theory with first hand experience to the contrary. |
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How does a police officer loose a patrol carbine and nothing happened to him?
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I don’t see why the evidence of lay people couldn’t be presented. The expert testimony presented an unclear picture at best I felt. I felt he was leading with his chin, and counter evidence was easy to provide. You don't have to take "expert" testimony as fact, as it often isn't. |
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It may be just me, but to go with the other charges just seems vindictive after the crown's loss. In my mind the crown had an opportunity to do the right thing but failed. As far as politics goes, it is obvious that the governing party took sides and would not let the jury have the final word. |
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I am perhaps jumping to a conclusion that he improperly stored restricted firearms but things point to that being the case. I also doubt the Tokarev was stored properly out in his shed. One of the other laws he admitted to breaking(but was never charged for) is improperly using that Tokarev, a restricted firearm, to chase off coyotes. What is the chances of him storing it properly if he uses it improperly and doesn't store any of his other firearms properly? Breaking the law, being charged for breaking the law and being found guilty of breaking the law are 3 very different things. Stanley clearly broke multiple laws and had a severe disregard for the proper storage of firearms(look at the photos, firearms laying around the house with ammo beside them etc). I have no issue with Stanley receiving the support he did, instances like what happened at his farm need to stop and he was in a tough place. If there truly was a mysterious 1 in millions chance hang fire that caused this whole issue I feel very sorry for the guy. I am just saying considering everything that happened he did very well. It is not very often that you can admit to accidentally killing a man and breaking multiple firearm related laws and walk away with only one minimal firearms related charge and a bunch of financial support. |
The gov't was going to try to nail him for something after the trial, one way or another, nature of the beast that is our legal system.
Unfortunately for him, he gave them that opportunity on a silver platter, so, he only has himself to blame for it in that regard. If the non-restricted guns had been stored properly, and his restricted lockbox was open still, he may possibly have beat that, due to circumstances at the time. But, he still most likely would have had to go to court over that, even if he had locked up everything else. It is a good illustration of the way things are, like it or not. |
But....
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un·sub·stan·ti·at·ed adjective adjective: unsubstantiated not supported or proven by evidence Looper |
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I am also unaware of a law described as "Using a Tokarev to chase away coyotes." What law are you actually referring to? Also, since we have dealt with the unsafe storage of unrestricted firearms as well, what are the rest of these "multiple firearms laws" that you vaguely claim that he violated? And, surely police would have charged Mr. Stanley with all of these other violations of "multiple firearms laws" if they could. So, again, could you clarify what all of these other "multiple firearms laws" were that you claim Mr. Stanley violated? |
I don’t understand why he could not have chosen the healing circle or is that only a one way station. Is that not what the guys who raided his place get. Tragic That some one died but should not both sides use the same justice system
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[QUOTE=pistolero1860;3772320]
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They did charge him with murder which requires proof of deliberate intent. The jury was also instructed that if they did not feel there was deliberate intent that he may be convicted of manslaughter. To charge careless use would raise the question, Was it deliberate intent or carless use? The careless use is included in the evidence required to prove manslaughter. The crown wanted a conviction of murder and the idea of careless use thrown in might push the jury in a way that the crown did not want. |
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Well, flag'em and tag'em in your memory. If nothing else, this thread has floated them to the surface. And Pistolero, welcome to the site.. Here... take Rug's chair. Perhaps you can fill that huge void. |
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Please tag me as a pro Crown guy. I have nothing against the Crown. They have a job to do. That also goes for defense lawyers. What I have a problem with is politicians that try to steer an agenda. What I also have a problem with is those who do not honor the decision of the jury. The jury who have the unpopular duty of rendering a decision should not have to see the leaders of our country cozy up to those to those on the other side of their decision. |
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I am also guessing the charges were dropped because the crown was happy with the results of him pleading guilty to the first charge. He already had a fine, firearms ban and had given up his firearms. Going through the proceedings for the second charge would have only resulted in a small fine and would have been a waste of time for everyone involved. Going back to using the Tokarev for scaring coyotes. Criminal code section 95 (1). Obviously there is no evidence to support such a case hence why he wasn't charged... Go tell a police officer you have sped in the past, you won't get charged for that either, doesn't mean you didn't break the law... |
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