My son and I spent 5 days of solid hunting in a 348 area that usually has a very good Whitetail population. We saw a total of 6 deer all week. We were concentrating on a small area, but it is the same area we have hunted for the last 10 years. Local farmers reported the same fewer sightings.
I keep hearing about a large cougar population in the area? Surely, this cannot be the reason. We do a ton of walking in large bush areas surrounding agriculture and grazing land, and I have not seen a cougar or a kill site in 20 years. I'm sure they are there, as are wolfs, but to pin it on predators? Can't be? I agree that supplemental tags should go away (at least for a while) as we have observed a noticeable decline. However, this year was next level. Combined with some harsh winters, are talking perfect storm scenario here? |
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[QUOTE=matt1984;3682966]
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How about next season they make the supplemental's only good for the CWD zones? This way they could allow the populations to be decimated there and then relocate some healthy immunized (assuming there is an immunization) deer back into these zone? This could slow or possibly eliminate the spread of CWD?
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The only way CWD goes away is if it kills all the deer and the ones that live have a natural "immunity". I use quotations because CWD isn't like a virus or a bacteria, but rather a protein that is not alive so it can't be "killed". The management of whitetail deer in those zones with supplemental tags are not for future hunting opportunities for hunters, rather to decimate the WT population for various reasons. I agree with WB that it is sickening that F&W are using hunters like this without being transparent. |
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Don't worry I haven't lost all faith in hunters knowing their wildlife ID ;) S |
Hmm, I guess its more palatable for the public if wolves die from malnutrition, conflict and interal strife than to just be shoot, I doubt they know whats going on..... if they did they would want wolf feeding programs or maybe adopt them and take them to a good home. Sigh
I cant understand for the life of me why the public puts the value on predators above ungulates. There is a food value, traditional, ceremonial and heritage value for with ungulates. Wolves are a conflict to this, we are competing with them. What do wolves do to coyotes when they are competing for the same food source? They kill them, its natural. |
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Wayner
To BCSteel I'm talking about not seeing any to possibly 1 or 2 deer on a full day of travelling. It's really bad and getting worse if that's possible.
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Not to be argumentative but I have seen numerous whitetails of either sex and multiple age classes in many of the WMU's (200's-300's) that were listed above.
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Deer numbers in these foothills and northern WMUs are way up over historical numbers due to habitat changes. All those seismic lines and pipelines have created a massive expansion of deer and moose up into areas that wouldn't be their normal habitat. Studies I've read say wolf numbers are 50-100% up over their historical norms because of this.
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Yeah the two tag supplemental white tail licence could be used more affectively in areas where mule deer populations are on the decline. Maybe that’s what the biologists are trying to do in these areas...?
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Edit: Saw you specified Moose in the next post. Sorry |
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Hunters haven't the first clue as to what needs to happen in the field beyond their preferred game. In this case it's whitetail deer. |
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Call the conductor we have a derailment here. First off the elk at Suffield were never supposed to get as out of hand as they did. Had to cull hard and in cooperation with the base and military. Numbers are dropping. Not sure what mess you are talking about but I assure you it's less of a mess than if the military were the ones doing the cull. Time to move on. Second, not sure you realize but the areas where the supplemental are valid are not traditional range of the whitetail. Pushed the mule deer out. As WB posted earlier, what does pizz me off is using hunters without being transparent with the reasons. Ie deer reduction to starveout wolves. |
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The world is always changing and evolving, some animals adapt and thrive, others disappears. A big difference here, is that whitetail moved in on their own, that's natural. Natural migration makes them belong to their new habitat, this is how every species alive today came to where they are now. As for wildlife management, we have to focus on what we have, not what we had. Woolly mammoth are long gone, but whitetails are here, right now. |
If hunters want to claim they are tools of conservation (as a justification to the non hunting public) then they shouldn't complain when they are used for that end. Whitetail deer management in the foothills was never supposed to be such that you could take a leisurely drive down an oil road and pop a 140 buck. They (whitetails) are a fairly new addition to that landscape and the population spurts following logging activity likely increased the food supply for predators which did pretty well as a result. That then spilled over and effected elk, moose, mule deer and sheep populations. Hunters as a group want things too easy. Getting permission on private land is tough and it sure was nice when you could head out to the green zone and fill the tags with zero work and effort. That is not the biologists problem though.
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The complaint for those that know what is going on, is that we don't know what is going on. Do you think it is right for hunters to be USED by biologists for management purposes while being purposefully misinformed as to the reasoning? Extrapolate the concept. Is there ANY place that it is acceptable for the government to USE the citizens to fulfill a hidden agenda? The problem here isn't whether or not hunters should participate in wildlife management programs, the problem is being used without being informed of the How and Why. |
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Multiple forestry companies have had large portions of their FMA completely locked up for years now. They just approved millions in seismic line restoration. The government is hitting the issue from all sides. Deer reduction is just one of the tools being used. |
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So you agree that it's no issue when hunters are kept in the dark regarding game management plans.... Do you know how the public found out that F&W was using hunters to reduce moose and deer populations to effect a wolf reduction? |
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