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-   -   Alberta needs to stock European perch (http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=421167)

Red Bullets 03-29-2023 09:03 PM

Alberta needs to stock European perch
 
1 Attachment(s)
I'm thinking Alberta needs to get some European perch brood stock and start stocking them instead of walleye. Would be more exciting to catch than the walleye we stock.

This is a beauty caught recently. 3.10 kilos (6.8 pounds). 49.5 cm. To think these perch go to 8 pounds. Wow

Mr Flyguy 03-29-2023 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Bullets (Post 4622819)
I'm thinking Alberta needs to get some European perch brood stock and start stocking them instead of walleye. Would be more exciting to catch than the walleye we stock.

This is a beauty caught recently. 3.10 kilos (6.8 pounds). 49.5 cm. To think these perch go to 8 pounds. Wow

??? Why not just stock Russian carp as well!

Red Bullets 03-29-2023 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Flyguy (Post 4622823)
??? Why not just stock Russian carp as well!

Just dreaming. Perch this size could compete with the walleye instead of diminishing like our yellow perch. I don't think the carp would be as tasty. :)

jungleboy 03-29-2023 09:48 PM

I suspect giant perch with nothing to eat would not be a lot different from Pike and Walleye with nothing to eat.

35 whelen 03-30-2023 06:49 AM

There's lots of invasive species we could transplant how about some Xander or giant goldfish.

TROLLER 03-30-2023 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 35 whelen (Post 4622848)
There's lots of invasive species we could transplant how about some Xander or giant goldfish.

Already have giant gold fish. Saw one swimming just off the dock at Crawling Valley last summer

stob 03-30-2023 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TROLLER (Post 4622872)
Already have giant gold fish. Saw one swimming just off the dock at Crawling Valley last summer

ugh!!!!

barbless 04-03-2023 02:52 PM

That's it gonna have to start using the 3-4 inch CIL EXPLO lures.

pinelakeperch 04-08-2023 11:15 PM

I believe they stocked Zander in Minnesota.

3blade 04-09-2023 08:49 AM

Serious question, do they taste like our perch?

EZM 04-09-2023 12:29 PM

I'd say anytime we introduce (purposely or otherwise) and invasive species into our watersheds it becomes an issue.

Heck I'd love to catch Muskies, European Perch, etc... but would be very cautious when considering the potential impact to our native species. In fact, we have trouble managing our native species alone. I can't see this being anything but a $#!t show.

HL_transplant 04-09-2023 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EZM (Post 4625910)
I'd say anytime we introduce (purposely or otherwise) and invasive species into our watersheds it becomes an issue.

Heck I'd love to catch Muskies, European Perch, etc... but would be very cautious when considering the potential impact to our native species. In fact, we have trouble managing our native species alone. I can't see this being anything but a $#!t show.

Tiger Muskies as a Control species would be amazing. Sterile I believe.

buckman 04-09-2023 06:21 PM

European lakes have many more species than Canadian lakes,as does the US. They seem to manage fine. The UK transplanted,Zander and Wells catfish years ago,both species coexist with the native fish.

Lets face it without some of our introduced fish we would be hard pressed.Browns,Rainbows,Brookies and to a certain extent Walleye were not native until we stocked them. Many are now the mainstay of many fisheries.

EZM 04-10-2023 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckman (Post 4625985)
European lakes have many more species than Canadian lakes,as does the US. They seem to manage fine. The UK transplanted,Zander and Wells catfish years ago,both species coexist with the native fish.

Lets face it without some of our introduced fish we would be hard pressed.Browns,Rainbows,Brookies and to a certain extent Walleye were not native until we stocked them. Many are now the mainstay of many fisheries.

Walleye are, in fact, native to North America.

Browns, Rainbows are introduced. They are not native.

Brooks are native to the east only, introduced to the west.

Bulls, Cutts and Lakers are native.

Walleye, Sauger, Northern Pike, Yellow Perch, Strugeon (white and lake), as well as Whitefish (inconnu and ciscoes, lake and mountain whites) as well are native.

There a bunch more and long list of natives like grayling, etc..

buckman 04-10-2023 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EZM (Post 4626198)
Walleye are, in fact, native to North America.

Browns, Rainbows are introduced. They are not native.

Brooks are native to the east only, introduced to the west.

Bulls, Cutts and Lakers are native.

Walleye, Sauger, Northern Pike, Yellow Perch, Strugeon (white and lake), as well as Whitefish (inconnu and ciscoes, lake and mountain whites) as well are native.

There a bunch more and long list of natives like grayling, etc..

I know Walleye are native,however they have been widely introduced into what were traditional Pike and Perch fisheries,some would to their detriment.

EZM 04-10-2023 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckman (Post 4626209)
I know Walleye are native,however they have been widely introduced into what were traditional Pike and Perch fisheries,some would to their detriment.

From a watershed to watershed perspective, that is largely true. They were, however, found in almost every major watershed from the continental divide (lower elevations into the prairies) east thru the Canadian shield.

The exact opposite of the rainbow/steelhead. Rainbows and Steelheads are genetically identical with only a small (and recent deviation) which is largely indiscernible (the same species) derived from sea run "steelhead" (anadromous) meaning both sea and fresh water like "most" other salmon but after the ice age some steelhead were cut off from the ocean. These are now known as "rainbows" - but are the same fish. The sea run steelhead are obviously much larger, having more forage.

Same issue with Sockeye and Kokanee.

The problem is they took these "Rainbows" ploped them over on this side of the continental divide where they were never native. Now they range all over the world. They have nearly destroyed our native cutthroats. Over 90% of the cutties we catch have rainbow genetics in them - there are only a handful of watersheds with pure cutties left on the planet. Most of these are single streams/drainages sadly.

stob 04-10-2023 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HL_transplant (Post 4625911)
Tiger Muskies as a Control species would be amazing. Sterile I believe.

NAiled It

AK47 04-11-2023 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3blade (Post 4625840)
Serious question, do they taste like our perch?

Yup. But their scales are even more tough to clean off.

SamSteele 04-11-2023 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EZM (Post 4626223)
From a watershed to watershed perspective, that is largely true. They were, however, found in almost every major watershed from the continental divide (lower elevations into the prairies) east thru the Canadian shield.

The exact opposite of the rainbow/steelhead. Rainbows and Steelheads are genetically identical with only a small (and recent deviation) which is largely indiscernible (the same species) derived from sea run "steelhead" (anadromous) meaning both sea and fresh water like "most" other salmon but after the ice age some steelhead were cut off from the ocean. These are now known as "rainbows" - but are the same fish. The sea run steelhead are obviously much larger, having more forage.

Same issue with Sockeye and Kokanee.

The problem is they took these "Rainbows" ploped them over on this side of the continental divide where they were never native. Now they range all over the world. They have nearly destroyed our native cutthroats. Over 90% of the cutties we catch have rainbow genetics in them - there are only a handful of watersheds with pure cutties left on the planet. Most of these are single streams/drainages sadly.


I believe the Athabasca strain is native to the Athabasca river system and was the only strain native to a watershed east of the Rockies.

This is a great book on the topic, for those interested.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...2ea9159489.jpg

SS

Smoky buck 04-11-2023 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HL_transplant (Post 4625911)
Tiger Muskies as a Control species would be amazing. Sterile I believe.

Tripliod pure strain musky would also be sterile and more fun than tigers :)

But I would be happy enough with some solid pike management and some stocking of forage

buckman 04-11-2023 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoky buck (Post 4626442)
Tripliod pure strain musky would also be sterile and more fun than tigers :)

But I would be happy enough with some solid pike management and some stocking of forage

Agreed the pike has become a much maligned fish here in Alberta.Walleye are now the star predator species,I love fishing for both. However the average size of pike seems to go down once the Walleye become established.

Smoky buck 04-11-2023 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckman (Post 4626502)
Agreed the pike has become a much maligned fish here in Alberta.Walleye are now the star predator species,I love fishing for both. However the average size of pike seems to go down once the Walleye become established.

Over abundance of any predator without the forage to sustain them is bad for a body of water. Sustainable numbers to match available forage is need or you get what we have in many Alberta lakes

As for big pike a 40” is 20years old so an over x size limit is not helping but harvest to achieve balance according to available forage is needed.

But let’s stop there before we start beating a dead horse lol

Who Da Fisherman 04-12-2023 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoky buck (Post 4626519)
Over abundance of any predator without the forage to sustain them is bad for a body of water. Sustainable numbers to match available forage is need or you get what we have in many Alberta lakes

As for big pike a 40” is 20years old so an over x size limit is not helping but harvest to achieve balance according to available forage is needed.

But let’s stop there before we start beating a dead horse lol

For big Pike it matters on which lake/res, forage and temperature. We had a biologist take part of the jaw off a 42" 27lb pike from a SW reservoir, it came back at 12.5yrs old.
Warm lake with lots of whitefish to eat....
WDF

Smoky buck 04-12-2023 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Who Da Fisherman (Post 4626698)
For big Pike it matters on which lake/res, forage and temperature. We had a biologist take part of the jaw off a 42" 27lb pike from a SW reservoir, it came back at 12.5yrs old.
Warm lake with lots of whitefish to eat....
WDF

That is definitely a fat pike at 42” and 27lbs.

20years is just what one study concluded for Ontario and you will likely find variations throughout different regions or even bodies of water

Things like fatty forage, genetics and temperature all play a role. This can vary even with a string of years with above average or below average conditions. Some fish within a body of water also will exceed the average growth compared to others in the same body of water. Nothing is absolutely consistent

Regardless big pike take time to reach that size

buckman 04-12-2023 04:37 PM

I fish a lake that's full of Scuds,only ever seen, or caught pike there. They are stuffed with the little critters.Have caught them close to 25 lbs.My son caught a monster 46 inches long.

I have kept a few,all stuffed with... you guessed it scuds.Some of these fish were up to 15 lbs.

Now they are stocking it with Walleye fry,what the hell will they eat.

Frank_NK28 04-12-2023 05:35 PM

So here is a question? Does AB have any programs like the CFIP (community fisheries involvement program) where local angling groups, clubs etc volunteer to run makeshift temporary hatcheries and raise fish in ponds, creeks etc for stocking in their local areas? When I lived in North Bay, Ont I was a member of the North Bay Hunters and Anglers Association and each year we captured walleye and milked them then raised the fry to about 1.5" length in rearing ponds. We would then seine net them out of the ponds and stock them in various area waters. We also did a ounaniche (atlantic salmon) program where the MNR supplied the eggs and in the first season or two streamside trays for the eggs to hatch in, then we raised enough $ to purchase our own equipment. The fry could be released later into the stream they were raised in to make their way downstream to the lake the stream emptied into to try to produce fish that may eventually return and hopefully establish a reoccurring run of spawning salmon. There was programs of these types all over Ontario and being volunteer run it cut alot of cost to the MNR and provided more space to raise fish and many waters and communities benefit from it. The Great Lakes Salmon stocking is a prime example as many volunteer organizations raise and stock salmon to stock in addition to what the MNR could or would supply. Food for thought?

Smoky buck 04-12-2023 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank_NK28 (Post 4626770)
So here is a question? Does AB have any programs like the CFIP (community fisheries involvement program) where local angling groups, clubs etc volunteer to run makeshift temporary hatcheries and raise fish in ponds, creeks etc for stocking in their local areas? When I lived in North Bay, Ont I was a member of the North Bay Hunters and Anglers Association and each year we captured walleye and milked them then raised the fry to about 1.5" length in rearing ponds. We would then seine net them out of the ponds and stock them in various area waters. We also did a ounaniche (atlantic salmon) program where the MNR supplied the eggs and in the first season or two streamside trays for the eggs to hatch in, then we raised enough $ to purchase our own equipment. The fry could be released later into the stream they were raised in to make their way downstream to the lake the stream emptied into to try to produce fish that may eventually return and hopefully establish a reoccurring run of spawning salmon. There was programs of these types all over Ontario and being volunteer run it cut alot of cost to the MNR and provided more space to raise fish and many waters and communities benefit from it. The Great Lakes Salmon stocking is a prime example as many volunteer organizations raise and stock salmon to stock in addition to what the MNR could or would supply. Food for thought?

I did some research a couple years ago and could not find any active angler only based organization in Alberta

Closest I could find ACA and AFGA

Alberta would definitely benefit for an angler organization that volunteered and fundraised for Alberta’s fisheries.

smitty9 04-13-2023 12:10 PM

More invasive species is generally not the answer.

Better management of fisheries and anglers is.

Let's stop putting the cart before the horse and looking at band aid solutions.

Previous overfishing, liberal kill limits (10 walleye a day in the good ol' days), and habitat destruction are the major issues.

Let's keep the focus where it should be folks.

Smitty

Smoky buck 04-13-2023 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smitty9 (Post 4626825)
More invasive species is generally not the answer.

Better management of fisheries and anglers is.

Let's stop putting the cart before the horse and looking at band aid solutions.

Previous overfishing, liberal kill limits (10 walleye a day in the good ol' days), and habitat destruction are the major issues.

Let's keep the focus where it should be folks.

Smitty

I don’t think the OP of this thread or anyone else posting in it was serious about introducing a new species or even considering it as an answer to Alberta’s fishery problems

deschambault 04-13-2023 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckman (Post 4626756)
I fish a lake that's full of Scuds,only ever seen, or caught pike there. They are stuffed with the little critters.Have caught them close to 25 lbs.My son caught a monster 46 inches long.

I have kept a few,all stuffed with... you guessed it scuds.Some of these fish were up to 15 lbs.

Now they are stocking it with Walleye fry,what the hell will they eat.

You have just described Crawling Valley prior to the walleye stocking. BTW I once pulled a large giant goldfish out of the marina and the F&W officer confirmed what it was but did say they couldn't survive an Alberta winter, thank goodness.


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