I agree it is better to be proactive. I hope we are going that route and I think we are. But we have to do it the right way!
If these courses are 80$ then I can live with that. If they are a lot more then I think we are going the wrong direction and it's not about learning and getting on the same page anymore

Four things.
First -the snaring seminars, if we say the seminar should "do this and include that", well then we're not talking about an $80.00 eight hour seminar any more. We can't have it both ways, cheap but include everything.

Second- there are outfits that run trapping courses and seminars other than the ATA, so what, they are businesses like any other. The ones that get trashed the most on here are the ones that support trapping and the ATA. There is a store in Edmonton that sells a pile of trapping equipment but you never see them at a Rendezvous trade fair.

Third- there's a lot of crap written on this forum about Gordy K. Has anyone done as much for trapping as he has? He helped Ingrid and I get involved as juniors on a line he had a few years ago, we'll never forget that. We wish him well and will continue to support Trapper Gord's which is the greatest outdoor store (in Debolt anyway).

Four- the ATA board is elected by membership to represent membership. While I may not agree with every thing they do,. I support them and think they do a lot for all trappers. If you've ever had the misfortune of dealing with an NDP government you will know the absolute frustration our board puts up with. Like any board they are not perfect, if you want perfection maybe we should just have you and I on the board :sHa_shakeshout:. But seriously,

the Rendezvous starts Friday, a time for fellowship and family fun. I hope to see you all there.
Thanks for listening.
Doug

The more I get involved with OLD trappers, and somewhat young trappers, the more I am in favor of Us making a snaring course mandatory.
Many are still using 3/32" 7x7 or worse 1/19 with traditional cams to snare. Change can be impossible unless you are taught a better way.


Spruce

Please tell me the date of the AEP meeting(s) when they supposedly discussed all of the reasons mentioned about why a Mandatory Snaring course is required. I simply cannot find any of that info anywhere. Tell me when they stated all that stuff and I'll pay the money for a FOIP to get the facts. You must know if you keep repeating it as fact.

While you're at it get me the date in 2008 when F&W supposedly said that they were going to ban all trapping in Alberta. :sHa_sarcasticlol:

The fact is that the big bad Bios were reluctant to approve a Mandatory Snaring course and the 5 member team of private trapping school owners and instructors had to fight for it. In the end, the Bios agreed that if they could prove the science they could have the Mandatory course. THAT is where the testing came in. It was a requirement for them to get approval for a Mandatory Snaring course......not to save the planet or anything else.

All that goes without saying that the "team" did this behind everyone's back without their knowledge. Better to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission I guess.

Man Davey boy you couldn't be more out to lunch on this one. The testing is being privately done, has nothing to do with ATA. ATA just had some input on what kind of snare set ups to be used. AND...snare course is not mandatory.

Didn't you also not believe me last year when I informed fellow trappers that the association lobbied for a Mandatory Snaring course? :thinking-006:

You may think that you know what's going on but you only know what you've been told. I have the FOIP request sitting in front of me so you're not arguing with me, you're arguing with the facts.

There is no doubt in my mind that the AEP would not allow the association to conduct their own testing. That makes total sense. I would hope that they would recognize the conflict of interest with that one.

Indeed the Snaring course is not mandatory......YET. No one said that it was. The "team" has been fighting for it since at least 2015 and they made a formal request in 2016 to make a Snaring course mandatory AND require a separate license to snare in Alberta. These are facts, not fluff.

Some of the arguments that I read here are the same ones that were heard in the 70's with body grip trap certification. We now would not think of using foot hold trap to trap marten like they do on some of the reality TV shows but 50 years ago it was the thing to do. Look at the cost of replacing those traps at that time and the push back about they being doing it their way for the last 100 years, with no need to change their ways. This to me is the same thing.

They are teaching best practices and snare making methods, that we currently know work humanely and as safely as possible to non target species.
This is an on going evolution and with testing things will probably change as time goes on similar to the body grip trap design.

If you want to take valuable arrow out of the trappers quiver fight the snaring changes, I remember when resident trappers could not snare coyotes. Do we want that back? Instead of fighting this, work with the ATA and other trappers to make it better!

Will it be a straight line or will there be bumps in the road you bet but if you can't see that by the media reports that we are at a cross roads over this then you have your head in the sand.

Also there was a mention about a supplier that does not support the ATA, They are currently selling some body grip traps that do not meet AIHTS.
I personal have gotten cheap cable and springs from a USA supplier, that was exactly what the stuff was cheap.

I will agree with you on the cheap part ..i used all my snare parts from a U.S. supplier and tho they cost half what the Camadian equivalents did (yes I included exchange) they were inferior quality ..Since then I have gone all Canadian with parts from Marty and look forward to increased success this year . If and when this course becomes mandatory we should all be lined up to take it , lets hope we dont get gouged doing it ....just too bad those that dont even have trapping licences now dont get caught and dinged


Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

Although some disagree the ATA doesn’t want to charge more then they have to to deliver courses and workshops. It does cost money to operate and put on courses, buy fur extra. The ATA is in support of trapping and knows we need new trappers to replace the old trappers. Thinking anything otherwise proves you don’t know much about the association.

Good idea on the non licencee there H 380 That should be brought up at the rendezvous.
So Number 1 ; Everyone wanting to snare has to be course approved
2 ; Everyone has to use the designated minimum components
designates a snare for each variety of canine ?
Fox, coyote, wolf ?
3 ; Defined distance minimum from bait station for hanging a
snare .Birds of prey .
4 ; Minimum distances from residences and livestock ie; DOGS
5 ; ALL snares visibly and clearly marked for locating .
6 ; Nearby residences etc all advised of ongoing snare operation . 7 ; No snaring along maintained roads except beyond fence
line. Visible to citizens and travel
8 ; Reasonable snare check period , according to regulations
9 ; All carcasses disposed of in a respectful and legal manner
10 ; All equipment completely removed at end of season .
11; No saturation snaring around bait stations , Example 80 to
100 snares in a small area ! Like one or two acres ! Minimize
the chance of non target IE: Deer Moose Etc
Does this appear unreasonable to anyone here?
So for you fellows that may disagree with some of this , remember not all areas are alike , Not all areas have the same challenges .
So this IMO would be a clear chart for keeping the challenges that are brought about when snaring in RURAL Alberta .
As for Registered lines , a lot of this has no bearing on them BUT non the less the components of a snare would have to be adhered to as well as a course certificate .Humane methods should be the norm at all times
If we can all get on the same page with this it would be a start and an example for other provinces . perhaps they could get their privilege of so called free hangers back !
So If you disagree , no screaming at me , we have to act together !

Now this Man is thinking! This the kind of ideas that we as trappers need to discuss and implement ! Maybe not all of them but the vast majority would go a long way in keeping free hanging snares available to all trappers. Great Post

H380 hopefully if the snaring course becomes mandatory that it is phased in over a couple or three years so that the Instructors can keep up with the demand and that everyone can get the course that need it.
Also I think that the ATA would not try to gouge people as they want to keep it as reasonably cost wise as possible.
The price of the current course is not outrageous and if you learn just one little thing that you use to catch one extra coyote the course pays for its self.

agreed on all accounts , price being a little confusing .. is it 80$ or 400 $ ? I realize it cant be done for nothing .

Good ideas Dan , only one Im concerned with is the marking part . Yes , they should be marked so you know where to pick them up after .. I currently do this as Im sure many others do as well , but Im careful how I do it so as to not draw the attention of unwanted visitors { thieves }..Im not for going as far as posting a sign similar to bear baits , that would only be asking for trouble .

I agree completely H 380 , Every trapper can come to his own marking system .In think any of us that do a bit of snaring mark our sets in your own manner , because one snow storm can radically change the scenery and gear can be lost , the consequences are never ending .
So basically this was the letter given to ANN a couple seasons ago , Although I dont remember hearing back on it , I could be mistaken .

Anyone notice how that spoiled Saskatchewan guy makes a comment like $400 for the course an then runs and hides after getting others riled up with false info. The cost of the course is $100 and includes supper. All proceeds go to the West Central local of the ATA. I’m getting no money out of it, just the opportunity to get together with and share some stories with some good people.

All great points!

Most of not all are covered in the standard Trapping course ($400) and the snaring workshops ($80).

Yearly the instructors get together for updating material and brush up on a few things.

It states 80 on the ATA website under course cost

Well those are the rules I go by ever since I moved into Alberta in the 70,s and so far NONE have bit me in the butt! I have had a contract ADC with a city for 19 years and THAT right there was a big experience teacher on dealing with the unexpected, and the public
There is nothing that will teach you the right way quicker than trapping in the night and dealing with all the garbage a city can give you !
Very few individuals have a taste for night time trapping always hiding from people and staying out of trouble .Trying to keep an animal from splashing trapped in the water at two in the morning with a couple of people holding hands as they walk by 20 feet away is an exhilarating moment to say the least! So the above is only my take on it I,m sure the rest of you have ideas as well .

didn't hide anywhere fat fingers. why did you only now decide to print the info I asked for in my first post? this could all have been avoided.

careful what you read into a handle....I was raised in ab, and live here now in my retirement.

btw, I didn't come up with the 400 dollar number.....it was mentioned by someone else. IF you would have provided the information I requested, it wouldn't even have gone the way it did.

Like I said send me a pm and will explain and answer all you questions. You will understand why I had to do things the way i did. No hard feelings toward you, I grew up in Saskatchewan. Honestly send me your number and I’ll set things straight.

you know how to pm??

Well how do they generate +$130K per year in profit from them then? :lol:

That’s a good question 😁

Since I’m not the ATAs accountant, trapper ed coordinator or on the board I can’t speak to the specifics but if you attend the AGM in September those that have the details will be there to answer your questions.

You can attend ask your questions, stomp your feet, pull your hair, try and spin things I don’t give a f😁k.

We used to get a grant from the province for education, we likely still do. Similar to what AFGA gets for conservation.
See you in Westlock
Doug

Yes, the association gets +$200K in grant money but that doesn't include revenue generated from trapping courses and workshops.

I messed up with the amount of $130K and it is incorrect. :sign0161: The actual amount of revenue generated from courses and workshops is +$200K.

You would think that anyone that is genuinely interested in promoting and preserving trapping in Alberta would consider reducing the cost of the mandatory course in order to make it more accessible to kids and low income earners.

I hope that you enjoy your RV weekend. I know that you're pretty excited about it.

And what happens if the government decides to stop granting the ATA money?......

If that happened it would be the association's doing.

I've often wondered how a non-profit organization could maintain their status while generating that kind of revenue.

I hate to break it to you but people are already getting gouged at $80.

Sure it's only $80 but do you know how they came up with that amount? A trapping instructor came up with a costing based on what he thought that it would cost to conduct the course everywhere province wide. For example, it would cost $1600 to send one instructor to Fort Makay or Fort Chip to teach 20 students and break even. With the instructor's wage, travel, hotel, meals, etc. that sounds reasonable right? :confused0024:

Now apply that same $80 times 20 students to a location where there is no requirement for the cost of a hotel, etc (ie. Westlock, Grand Prairie, Calgary, etc.......basically anywhere an instructor lives in the vicinity). Less the instructor's wages that's a healthy chunk of change!

You know, I might not have minded if the association was right upfront with the membership with what they suggested, but to go behind everyone's back and pull this off is simply dirty. To make matters worse, they are treating this mandatory Snaring course as an opportunity to generate more revenue. The whole fiasco stinks.

It’s been told to you over an over, at the annual general meeting all numbers are made available through a private accounting firm. Every singal cent. What is wrong with you if you want the answers it’s easy instead you make a a🤬 of yourself.