Semi auto shotguns
 

I’m interested in upgrading shotguns. Looking around $1000 budget. I prefer the gas guns so have been looking at Remington 11-87, as I have a compact youth 20 gauge and really like the way it has worked. Also saw a really good deal on a Winchester SX3 last week. Also saw a browning hunter at a reasonable cost at another retailer. Not very familiar with the newer versions, so not sure what to look at or watch out for. Currently shooting Weatherby SA-08, which has treated me very well, but with the 3” goose loads it pounds you pretty good after a while being so light.

Thanks!

The Browning Silver and the Winchester SX-3/4 use the same operating mechanism, both are very good shotguns. The Remington V3 is also a good gun. Research shotgun fit, and buy the one that fits you best.

I got the stoeger m3500. I'm definitely not a shotgun expert but this one seems to work fine for me.

I have the Stoeger M3500 too, had it for 4 years now. Excellent gun, shoots anything from 23/4 to 31/2” shells, no issues. Recoil is very manageable with 3” shells, the 31/2 kicks like a MF, lol! :scared0018: But I have bony shoulders, so I usually wearing the pad if we go for a all day shoot...

Stoeger M3500 and Benelli SBE2 are the same actions, built in the same Turkish factory, or so the rumours have been to date.

Anyways, I have both the Weatherby SA - 8 and the Benelli SBE2 and both are stand up guns.

Also have an older Browning A - 5 Gas Auto, and that also is a very very good gun, but does not shoot 3.5 shells.

Quality on all these guns is top notch for hunting needs. Get whatever fits.

Drewski

Stoeger
 

I shoot an m3k. It is a m3000 with tacticool stuff. If the 3.5” isnt what you need, i am happy standing behind the 3000 as a recommendation. It will also leave you with some ammo money.

The SBE2 is made in Italy, and the M3500 is made in Turkey. Although they are of a very similar design, the fit and finish, is not comparable. Many people want the cheaper made Turkish guns to be equivalent to the Italian made firearms, but they aren't.

Any feedback on the Remington V3?

I am good friends with 2 people who own v3s. Both have been flawless performers. If I were buying again, I doubt I would pay twice the $ for a Beretta, and would likely go with a v3.

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I run a Versamax and I knows it’s not a v3. My versa runs like a dream, any load size at anytime, never had a single issue with it. I think the v3’s use the same versa port system but just aren’t chambered in 3.5”. I bet they would run without an issue as well

I sure like the Beretta A400 Extreme Plus. Makes a nice sporting clays gun, and shoots up to 3-1/2" shells (very soft recoil). They take a few hundred shots to break in and reliably shoot light 7/8 and 1 ounce target loads, but after break-in should cycle about anything. Price is too high for you, but sure would make a good target and waterfowl gun. They are 7#13oz with a 28" barrel and are a bit heavy for an upland gun.

Bashaw sports has a browning silver hunter on special for $1,089.

I have a silver and consider it my go to goose gun. It has very Light recoil, & never have has a failure to load or eject. Only negative is that is a bit heavy to pack on an extended walk for upland. Same innards as a Winchester SX3.

The SX3 are extremely good shotguns. With the 4’s, Winchester took the 3 and made it lighter, less bulky But those 3’s are probably the best bang for your buck. Local CT has one in clearance for 749$.
But really, you can’t wrong with any of the 3 B’s either, browning, benelli or beretta.

Have you looked at fabarms?

Choices
 

If you don't need a 3.5 inch chamber, Mariocchi makes a beauty Italian made semi auto, available at Cabela's for $899 and comes with 5 chokes, quite a nice anodized Stoeger 3500 in the newest Cabelas flyer.

Gun choice is such a personal thing. What works for me may be of no interest to you.

If it's increased range you are after, you won't get it. The cartridge has much more to do with terminal ballistics the the shotgun it's used in.

If you are looking to up your hit ratio again you are not likely to get it by upgrading. Better to down grade to a single shot in a smaller gauge if you want to up you hit average.

Going single shot and smaller forces one to pay more attention to aim which is what really matters when it comes to hit average.

A lot of shooters don't seem to understand that most shotguns have about the same range. The mighty 3 1/2" 12 guage has no more range then the diminutive 20 guage 2 3/4.

A couple of falls back I had the opportunity to hunt geese alongside three hunters using 3 1/2" 12 guage shotguns. All were experienced wing shooters.

I carry a 16 guage 190 KA Mossberg bolt action shotgun from the 1960s.
They were all hunting with recent made steel shot approved autos and pumps in 3 1/2 12 guage.

I bagged a few less Geese then they did, like about 8 to their 10. But at the same ranges as they did. There is no doubt in my mind that the difference was follow up shots.
My bolt action is just to slow to make a follow up shot.

I understand the desire to upgrade and if that's your main goal then go for it. There is no right or wrong in gun choices.

If however your goal is improving you hit average there are much better, much more effective ways to do that then upgrading.

Just my thoughts, I'm not about to call the cops if you choose a gun that's not right for what you want to achieve.

Changing shotguns can make a difference in your shooting, if the new gun fits you better. It can also cause you to miss more if the new gun doesn't fit as good. A smaller gauge , or a tighter choke can help you to see where you are shooting, but going to a single shot, doesn't in itself improve your shooting. If you are goose hunting with a gun that does not allow more than one shot, and you are shooting eight birds to your partners ten, then your partners are not shooting very good. A good shooter will average two or more geese per flock using a semi auto shotgun. If you want to improve your shooting, make sure your gun fits, then shoot skeet or sporting clays, and you will learn to shoot much quicker than you could ever learn shooting birds in the field.

Obviously you hunt a different area then I do. Here one bird per flock per hunter is the norm no matter what action the shooter is using.

Oh sure some times one does get a second shot, even I do with my bolt action, but no where near often.

And yes, going to a single shot in of itself does not improve one's shooting, but it does promote better aiming.

One thing I do agree with wholeheartedly, a better fit does help a lot.

However, few people know how to check for fit and fewer still understand how to adjust for it.

I must admit that even though I know how to check fit and how to adjust it, I never bother. I find I can hit with any shotgun if I aim well.

I suppose because I don't have access to skeet or sporting clays equipment nor does anyone I know.

Or maybe it's because I learned to wing shoot before such things were available in this area.

I appreciate the reply Keg, the only thing I have noticed, if you are not focused on emptying the mag as fast as you can, a semi auto actually allows you to spend more time aligning your next shot rather than cycling the action (as you would be with a pump) I came from an old pump, and while quick and handy, it does take that extra though process and time to make it happen. I have found for me a semi auto works best. I agree that aim is important, and I have a single shot 10 gauge for the single shot work, it’s just nice to sometimes have a semi to capitalize on different situations.

How well you hit depends on your standards and expectations, a properly fitted shotgun can take you from 80% to 90+%, but if you are happy with 80% you may not notice the difference. And if you try to aim using the beads, you will never shoot to potential regardless of the shotgun you use. As far as skeet and sporting clays go an A or AA shooter in either discipline will shoot better on birds than most hunters ever will.

All I want is a Goose in the oven. 80% is more then good enough for me.

I'll leave the competition shooting to those who like that sort of thing.

I switched guns and it has made the world of difference. Our shooting as a group has improved tenfold. Our first hunt this year, and first hunts are usually the worst, I went 8 for 10. As a group we probably shot 70%, and we had a full limit on 3 guys in 17 minutes. Our best hunt yet. But, even a broken clock is right twice a day!!
Never hurts to try a new gun, only hurts the pocket book.

I understand how important gun fit can be, but you won't convince the guys that are still trying to use the beads as sights.:)

For decades hunters have successfully downed birds with shotguns.
Most of those hunters knew nothing about fit and the few who did, knew that in hunting, it didn't make a lot of difference to those who knew how to shoot well.

Then along came gun writers and self proclaimed experts who told everyone they had to get their shotguns fitted.

Good advice for those who have access to honest people who know how to do the job. But for a good many hunters such people were non existent in their neighborhood.

That pretty much leaves only one option, learn to shoot well with what you have. You may never win a shooting competition, but for a lot of hunters that is not the goal.

Something else that is well worth doing if you know how to do it yourself.

That is patterning your shotgun.

The reason being, no shotguns throws exactly the same pattern with every load one may use.

Some shoot loose patterns with one brand and load while shooting nice tight groups with another load or brand. Some even shoot hollow centered patterns with a particular load.

So some times the reason a person misses a lot has more to do with the ammo he chose then fit or aim.

Changing shotguns can eliminate the problem as can changing loads.
But you'll never know why one shotgun hits well in a shooters hand while another does not if you never pattern that load in that shotgun.

Fit is not always the answer. Gun manufactures figured out long ago how to make their shotguns fit the average guy reasonably well, but none have yet to figure out how to make their guns shoot every load well.

I attempted to pattern mine a couple weeks ago. It does add merit as to where you hit in relation to the point of aim, which I think is a key learning. The one thing other than that was get me frustrated with basically every load I tried. (5 or 6 different loads) I then decided it was likely better info to ensure I could hit a moving clay with it, as it would better emulate an actual target I would be shooting at. After that it separated the wheat from the chaff as to what was a good hunting load, and what was not. To me both elements of that are important, and most people aren’t super pumped to shoot a few rounds of clays with 3” magnums.

I never posted that a person needed to have a shotgun fitted, in order to shoot it well. Unless you are very tall or short, or of an abnormal build, you don't have to get a shotgun fitted to have a shotgun that fits you fairly well. With so many shotguns available, that vary in fit, you can simply shoulder a variety of shotguns , and see which shotguns fit you best. You may not find a perfect fit, but some will fit much better than others, so why not buy the shotgun that fits you best? Yes people have been killing birds with shotguns for many years, and many people have used shotguns that fit poorly, because that is all that they had available, but if you have the choice, why wouldn't you choose the best fitting gun you can, and give yourself the best odds of shooting to your potential? Whether you shoot clays or birds, a better fitting shotgun is an advantage, and only a fool would purposely deny himself that advantage.

I hear you.

I've patterned a few loads over the years but too often the guage I shoot is in short supply so I can't afford to use up what little I have.
Not on checking fit, pattern or practicing on clays.

Even 12 guage loads can be in short supply up here.

But it really doesn't matter for the shooting I do. When I find a load that works I stick with it whenever possible.

Like I said, my goal is a Goose in the roaster, not a ribbon on the mantel.
Not that there is anything wrong with wanting that ribbon, just that it's not my thing.

I would wager that the number one reason shooters miss with their shotgun is not fit or pattern, it's they didn't lead enough or lead too much.

I don't doubt that to get into the 90% plus hit range both fit and pattern become very important, but I reached 70% plus long before I even heard of either. And I suspect 70% plus is about average for most hunters.
It certainly seems so among the wing shooters I know.

One thing is sure, even 50% will put birds in the bag.

I have to agree with all that.

Maybe I should explain my thinking.

I think it's a mistake to give new hunters the impression that one NEEDS a ultra magnum or a perfectly fitting shotgun to have any success in hunting.

Whether that impression is intentional or not I don't think matters.

There certainly is a place for flat shooting rifles and properly fitted shotguns.
But in my experience beginners seldom have the cash or the knowledge to achieve such ideals or even benefit from them.

When I answer a post I keep in mind what it was like for myself when I was learning to hunt and shoot and temper my answers accordingly.

I started out with no access to experts and only second hand firearms that would be inadequate in many peoples minds these days, but they did the job then and still can today.

There is nothing wrong with hunting with an ultra magnum, if that is what one likes, and for sure proper fit and patterning a shotgun can take ones shooting to the next level.

But first one has to learn to aim and to hunt.

I firmly believe it does the future of hunting a disservice to give anyone the impression that hunting or shooting is more complicated or more costly then it actually is.

The reality is, a hard kicking gun promotes poor shooting techniques in new hunters and the budget shotgun can bring down birds as surely as the best super magnum auto. They may not do it as good as the high priced hard kicking offerings, but they are easier to learn with and a whole lot easier on the budget.

If you were to reread my first post you may notice that my focus was on his reason for upgrading. In so doing I offered that if upgrading was his goal that was fine but if improving his hit average was the goal then upgrading may not be the best alternative.

Given the budget he suggested I guessed that he wasn't drowning in cash thus a lower priced gun might be a better option.

You answered my post by suggesting that my hunting partners were poor shots and of course that suggests that I am an even worse shot.

You followed that by saying this;
I think that leaves the wrong impression. As I said, in my experience improper lead is most often the reason beginners miss.

Therefor I think learning where to aim is more important then fit or pattern.
Once you have that figured out then it's time to look at getting a shotgun that fits well or have someone fit your gun for you.

But that's just my opinion gleaned from many years of trial and error.

Take it for what it is. Just my opinion.

Why would you even bring ultra magnum cartridges into a shotgun discussion? The two are not at all related, so why the totally irrelevant rant? And cost is not a factor in choosing a shotgun that fits you better. A lower priced gun can actually fit better, I kept my $1000 SX-3, and sold my A400 and my SBE that cost twice as much, because the SX-3 fits me better, so I shoot it better. As for your partners shooting skills, if they are shooting semi autos, and are barely killing more birds than you are , and you are only getting off one shot per flock, then their shooting can't be that great. If you really want to see how good your shooting is, or isn't, count the fired hulls at the end of a hunt and compare that number to the number of dead birds on the ground. That will give you a good indication of your shooting. Most people are surprised, when they do this.