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-   -   Cz 858 (http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=28474)

rosh7674 02-25-2009 12:11 PM

Cz 858
 
Hi,
I have a very basic question about CZ 858. Can CZ 858 be used as a hunting and protection gun when in Bear country.

I want to purchase this gun mainly for hunting deer. Since the barrel is short for this gun, I should be able to carry it easily in bushes with me. Plus the recoil from this gun doesn't seem as bad too.

Please post your comments.

Thanks

Rosh

Scott N 02-25-2009 12:53 PM

You can get a longer barreled version of this rifle that is non-restricted, so yes, you could used for hunting and bear protection. It seems like it would be pretty under-powered for any bear defense situation though. I'm not sure that suitable hunting ammo is easily available either, isn't most ammo for this type of rifle FMJ?

Eagle Eye 02-25-2009 07:45 PM

For straight bear protection in the woods, I would want a 12 gauge shotgun with slugs. There are several versions around that use a pistol grip type stock. They are reasonably compact, light and easy to carry. They are not expensive either.

The CZ 858 Assualt Rifle uses the 7.62x39mm which some would consider "light" even for deer hunting. it would work at close ranges but don't expect too much. Unlike most assault type rifles, it isn't restricted though so it would be legal in the hunting role. Remember that the magazines are set for 5 rounds. I believe they come equipped with 4 mags in the box. CZ makes nice rifles.

If you really want a light easy carry deer rifle that will stop bears very effectively, you might consider a Remington Model 7 in 7mm-08.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

munyee4321 02-25-2009 07:50 PM

if you do intend to use this to hunt remember to find expanding bullets in the 7.69 x39 as a majority of this ammunition are FMJs which are not legal to use to hunt. Find some hollow points or soft points i believe they are out there but slim.

Chargerguy 02-26-2009 02:33 AM

The CZ-858 is the long barrel non restricted version. The CZ-58 is restricted. 7.62x39 is a calibre we'll never run out of (ball anyway) but not my choice for bear. 762 hunting ammunition is hard to come by.

catnthehat 02-26-2009 05:15 AM

I prefer a shotgun for killing bears at very close range.
Close range form me is two barrels at once , no aiming needed!
Bin there, dun that , still remember what it was like , never had the same sensations before or after - not something I would encourage toe weak of heart to try.
Cat

IR_mike 02-26-2009 09:35 AM

From one very intense personal experience I can attest to the effectivness of the 7.62 x 39 on black bears at close range....it worked. I am really really glad it worked.

I also learnt through the same experience how effective a jones cow/calf elk call is at attracting Black bears.

AB2506 02-26-2009 08:20 PM

http://www.wolverinesupplies.com/def...scid=12&pid=43

Okotokian 02-27-2009 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chargerguy (Post 273578)
The CZ-858 is the long barrel non restricted version. The CZ-58 is restricted. 7.62x39 is a calibre we'll never run out of (ball anyway) but not my choice for bear. 762 hunting ammunition is hard to come by.

Seems to summarize most of the posts... perhaps couldn't pick a less appropriate rifle for what you said you wanted to do (hunt and bear protection)

thorne 02-27-2009 12:36 PM

If you want a small bush gun, cheap, with lots of umph, just pony up the $200.00 or so for a M-44 Moisen Nagant. 7.62 X 54R has more then enough to take any game or eliminate any threat in Alberta. Surpluss Ball is pleantyful and cheap, plus there are lots of good quality hunting rounds available. Now if you just want to justify getting a CZ....then you better come up with another excuse.

fluxcore 02-27-2009 06:41 PM

2 Attachment(s)
7.62x39 i almost on par with a 30-30, You would have no problem taking deer out to 150 yards. I ve shot coyotes out to around 180yards with mine a few times but around 100yrds is just right. The cz858 is very well built and very accurate not to mention the upgrades available check mine out:evilgrin:

rosh7674 02-28-2009 09:10 AM

Where to get CZ 858
 
Hi,
I was wondering if anyone know where to get one of these I have checked out wholesalesports website, other places in edmonton. MilArms might have it but there sales team is not helpful at all. Do you guys any place where I could get one. And how much do they run for?

I also want to thank all of you guys responding to my post.

Thanks

Rosh

AB2506 02-28-2009 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AB2506 (Post 274125)

These guys sell them.

munyee4321 02-28-2009 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rosh7674 (Post 274903)
Hi,
I was wondering if anyone know where to get one of these I have checked out wholesalesports website, other places in edmonton. MilArms might have it but there sales team is not helpful at all. Do you guys any place where I could get one. And how much do they run for?

I also want to thank all of you guys responding to my post.

Thanks

Rosh

frontiertaxidermy.com
theshootingedge.com
milarms
p&d

runn about $800

fluxcore 02-28-2009 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by munyee4321 (Post 274984)
frontiertaxidermy.com
theshootingedge.com
milarms
p&d

runn about $800

backcountry sports in red deer sells them for $650.00

rosh7674 03-10-2009 04:39 PM

what happens if ottawa decides to prohibit CZ 858
 
Hi,
What will happen if I own a gun which after a year or so becomes prohibited? I am planning on buying CZ 858 as my bush gun and I am just wondering if someone in Ottawa decides that it should be classifieds as prohibited. Since I can't own a prohibited gun will I end loosing my cz 858?


thanks

Rosh

Dick284 03-10-2009 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rosh7674 (Post 281670)
Hi,
What will happen if I own a gun which after a year or so becomes prohibited? I am planning on buying CZ 858 as my bush gun and I am just wondering if someone in Ottawa decides that it should be classifieds as prohibited. Since I can't own a prohibited gun will I end loosing my cz 858?


thanks

Rosh

Well they could prohibit every pump shotgun, and Remington 7400 tomorrow if they wanted. And the legislation allows them to do that through Order in Council, which means it may never even see debate in the house. Wanna know what really is wrong with then Bill C-68. This is part of it for sure.

If past history is anything to go by, when all the sub 101mm barrel handguns, and .25 cal and .32 cal pistols were prohibited, the registered owners obtained prohibited owner status(grandfathered), and could keep them till they either sold them to another prohib owner, or the passed away. Once passing away they prohibated firearms have to either be transfered to another prohibated owner, or destroyed.

Only problem right now, is you cant even use your prohibated firearms at the range, they are strickly safe queens.

This is potentially going to get better with bill C-301, but only for range use. Not re classification.

rosh7674 03-10-2009 07:29 PM

So do you think will it be wise to buy the CZ 858. I want to buy this gun for it looks and as a bush gun.

Remington AR15 are they restricted or non-restricted?

IR_mike 03-10-2009 07:37 PM

the r15 as well as the r25 are both restricted.

GMC 03-10-2009 08:35 PM

Question for Dick284
 
Hi Dick284; Quick question on your last post. You mentioned that Prohib's can't be shot at the range, they've become safe queen's? I have had 12/6 status since it's inception, and currently have Prov. wide ATT for AB. & SK., Could you offer more info, as I've never come across this before.

Thank's kindly; Gerry :wave:

Chargerguy 03-11-2009 04:21 AM

I would not recommend the CZ-858 especially because they're hard to come by right now and I'm looking for a fourth :tongue2:

Do some research on the VZ-58 and you'll see that it's a superior design to the AK. I've shot roughly 2 crates through my "shooter" without a jam or problem. A lot of them have been bump fires too.

I do not recommentd the rifle as a bush gun. I have shot them extensively and it would not be in my top 5 DUE TO CALIBRE. If you want to be protected from Bears, etc, I'd go with a shotgun, you can fend off bears, shoot birds, or whatever for food, pop off signal flares....my #1 for a bush gun. #2 might be an 1895 or Lee Enfield Jungle Carbine.

Dick284 03-11-2009 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GMC (Post 281908)
Hi Dick284; Quick question on your last post. You mentioned that Prohib's can't be shot at the range, they've become safe queen's? I have had 12/6 status since it's inception, and currently have Prov. wide ATT for AB. & SK., Could you offer more info, as I've never come across this before.

Thank's kindly; Gerry :wave:

You used to be able to get what they called an SAP to take your 12/6's to the range, the last Liberal Govt tossed that, and now you cant. Go join CGN and have a read on all the 12/6 problems.

dances with gophers 03-11-2009 06:20 AM

you can find 762x39 igman or privi partisan ammo
at can tire or most gun stores .its soft tip hunting ammo and is about 16 buc a box i got some last nite at sportsmans den in Red deer .
they also have boxes or crates of the norinco ball ammo
for $5.50 for 20 rds
I bought my 858:D in Red Deer a couple of years ago its an awesome bang stick suprisingly accurate even with me shooting it .
never had any faults or failures , just remember to pour boiling water in it after shooting and prior to cleaning , to remove the salts (from primer)
as the military ball ammo is corrosive , the modern hunting stuff isnt .:D

eltorro 03-22-2010 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle Eye (Post 273377)
For straight bear protection in the woods, I would want a 12 gauge shotgun with slugs. There are several versions around that use a pistol grip type stock. They are reasonably compact, light and easy to carry. They are not expensive either.

The CZ 858 Assualt Rifle uses the 7.62x39mm which some would consider "light" even for deer hunting. it would work at close ranges but don't expect too much. Unlike most assault type rifles, it isn't restricted though so it would be legal in the hunting role. Remember that the magazines are set for 5 rounds. I believe they come equipped with 4 mags in the box. CZ makes nice rifles.

If you really want a light easy carry deer rifle that will stop bears very effectively, you might consider a Remington Model 7 in 7mm-08.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Don't mean to be an asshat, but please do not use these terms so liberally. A CZ858 -2 is a non-restricted sport rifle. Assault rifles are select fire, not to mention that the only one ever made was Sturmgewehr. Thank you.

+1 for the shotgun for bear use.

ruger338 03-22-2010 11:41 PM

cz 858
 
I caryy the old 45/70 in the back country shes got the back up for almost anything scares the hell out of the squirrels too lol fairly light on the pack as well

AB.Boy 03-23-2010 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick284 (Post 282142)
You used to be able to get what they called an SAP to take your 12/6's to the range, the last Liberal Govt tossed that, and now you cant. Go join CGN and have a read on all the 12/6 problems.

Are you referring to 12/5, 12/4 etc.?

1. 12(2) means full automatics.
2. 12(3) means converted automatics.
3. 12(4) means firearms prohibited by former prohibition order No. 12.
4. 12(5) means firearms prohibited by former prohibition order No 13.
5. 12(6) means handguns with a barrel length of 105 mm or less or that discharge .25 or .32 calibre ammunition.

There are many people with 12(6) classification pistols and revolvers that have ATT's to shoot them at their local ranges.

As I understand it 12(5)...12(2) are not being issued ATT. Thus are safe queens.

lowlife72 08-27-2010 03:24 PM

How does the CZ 858-2 compare to the SKS and Ruger Mini 30 from both an accuracy and mainenance perspective? Is there actually a solid way to mount optics to the CZ?

I'm not really into the SKS but at about $200 - $250 it seems like good bang for the buck.

On the other hand a Ruger Mini 30 retails for around $900 and although I prefer them to the SKS this seems a bit much to pay for a rifle that will primarilly be used to burn through a bunch of cheap surplus ammo.

The CZ at around $650 - $750 seems like it might be a nice middle ground.

:)

Chargerguy 08-28-2010 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowlife72 (Post 665117)
How does the CZ 858-2 compare to the SKS and Ruger Mini 30 from both an accuracy and mainenance perspective? Is there actually a solid way to mount optics to the CZ?

I'm not really into the SKS but at about $200 - $250 it seems like good bang for the buck.

On the other hand a Ruger Mini 30 retails for around $900 and although I prefer them to the SKS this seems a bit much to pay for a rifle that will primarilly be used to burn through a bunch of cheap surplus ammo.

The CZ at around $650 - $750 seems like it might be a nice middle ground.

:)

The CZ-858 is actually a very accurate rifle, and I'm very impressed with it using M43 Czech surplus. The SKS is accurate as well. I'd buy a new in grease Chinese SKS before a refurbed russian....for a shooter. The refurbed russians I've had didn't have the nicest condition barrels. For the price the Chinese sks seems the way to go. Between the 2 I'd go with the 858 every time. Although not chrome lined, unless you find a VZ-58L, they are easy to clean after shooting corrosive ball ammuntion. Mounting optics would be easier with the 858, check out NEITARMS. com for handguards or the QD optics rail, etc. really cool stuff made here in Canada.

Ryan

Chinchaga Hermit 08-29-2010 01:56 AM

Here’s my two cents.

1. El torro is on target. “Assault rifle” is a mainstream media anti-firearms misnomer used to muddy the waters on the subject of semi-automatic rifles. Fully automatic or select fire rifles are the only rifles correctly described as “assault” type rifles. Using that term infers that it’s a scary rifle that is only meant for “mowing down” people. Also, the use of that term smacks of elitism, in that only bolt action rifles are “legitimate” for the public to own.

2. AB Boy is correct. Owners of 12.6 class pistols and revolvers are still being issued ATT’s. I see guys who are grandfathered to use them regularly on the CDTSA range for steel challenge matches. Owners of 12.5 to 12.2 are SOL. The RCMP began summarily refusing to issue ATT’s for those classes a few years ago. So current owners can posses them, but cannot legally transport them to any range.

3. Rosh, you will have trouble finding soft-point ammo for 7.62x39, as the US state department will not allow export of that caliber of ammo. (See ITAR) Also I suggest that you might want to consider a “right tool for the job” vein of thought. Don’t get me wrong. The Cz 858 is a fun rifle. I personally like the 7.62x39mm, and have two rifles in that caliber, but do not use them for hunting deer, just for service rifle shoots. You would better off with a bolt-action rifle like a .270 Winchester, or .30-06 Springfield as an introductory hunting caliber.

4. Again Rosh, for hunting you can do a lot better for a similar amount of money. If you are on a budget I would suggest one of the introductory type Savage rifle “package” deals that include a basic scope & rings/bases, which could later on be swap out to a better quality scope & mounts when you can afford it. The actions on the Savage’s are not butter-knife smooth, but are exceptionally accurate for the price. If you have more wiggle room in the budget I would suggest, either firstly a Tikka and or secondly a Ruger. The Tikka is a great rifle, is very accurate, and it going to set you back $1300 or more depending on the optics and mounts you use. The Ruger is reliable, fairly accurate, includes mounts, and will run you around $1000 with a decent scope.

5. Cat is also correct. If you are looking for bear defense, a decent 12 gauge without a pistol grip, with a 18.5” barrel would be your best bet.

PoppaW 08-29-2010 08:03 AM

As a deer gun it should work great. The 30-30 works and this is real close to the same. The only issue I see is scope mount options. Most have to be removed to clean the gun. This is mostly an issue with the surplus ammo, as its 'dirty'. I think more people should hunt with these semi's just to help with image. Oh and get a 5rnd mag and loose the banana for hunting. They freak people out as it looks like an ak at a distance.
I really want an XCR in this caliber for the same reasons as the OP. Deer and bear. Tough gun that you can shoot lots for cheap, and hunt with at close range. Nice.


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