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-   -   What to do to protect freedom of speech (http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=375624)

A S D 01-20-2020 04:27 PM

What to do to protect freedom of speech
 
Toronto police threaten to arrest Menzies for questioning the protest of Iranian general Qassem Soleimani being killed, for calling him terrorist.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/toront...as-a-terrorist

I feel a threat to freedom of speech has occured. I'm starting to believe that for some people, freedom of speech is nothing more than a political weapon to claim if they feel ignored or want to push their views, but say it is not absolute if it threatens or does not suit their political or idiological views.

I'd like to somehow stand up against this kind of behavior. It makes me ill, especially when our gov't is guiltly of this. We need to somehow protest this kind of behavior. I think I'll write my MP.

stuckincity 01-20-2020 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A S D (Post 4096589)
What to do to protect freedom of speech

I simply say whatever I want whenever I feel like it.
I ain't no 'racist' (I'm a 'culturist' - love my Western culture or just go away. I don't care where you're from or what so-called 'color' you are)
and I don't believe in, or indulge in, so-called 'hate speech'.

If anyone don't like how I talk about "certain groups" and think I'm doing something illegal, they can call the police.

Jayhad 01-20-2020 05:02 PM

It's laughable that you think there is freedom of speech in Canada.

You just have to look at Mike Ward's or Guy Earle's convictions for jokes.

bessiedog 01-20-2020 06:11 PM

The cops explanation was pretty clear.

It’s maybe the same as me wearing an I LUV TRUDEAU shirt at a UCP party rally and calling UCP members racists hicks........

The cop is probably right that I’m attempting to stir things up and disrupting the peace..... cause chances are imma gonna get a beating.

I caused this situation..... I prolly shoulda been arrested no?

The reporter was deliberately trying to stir it up.

And if the mr 19 posts new (old) member would kindly read and understand section 1 of the charter ..... he might understand the cops actions.


Grow up guys

57charlie 01-20-2020 06:13 PM

terrorist groups
 
Qassem Soleimani was a terrorist, his name and influence is associated with more than a few of the following terrorist organizations:

Date Designated & Name
10/8/1997 Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG)
10/8/1997 Aum Shinrikyo (AUM)
10/8/1997 Basque Fatherland and Liberty (ETA)
10/8/1997 Gama’a al-Islamiyya (Islamic Group – IG)
10/8/1997 HAMAS
10/8/1997 Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM)
10/8/1997 Hizballah
10/8/1997 Kahane Chai (Kach)
10/8/1997 Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK, aka Kongra-Gel)
10/8/1997 Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)
10/8/1997 National Liberation Army (ELN)
10/8/1997 Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)
10/8/1997 Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ)
10/8/1997 Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
10/8/1997 PFLP-General Command (PFLP-GC)
10/8/1997 Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC)
10/8/1997 Revolutionary People’s Liberation Party/Front (DHKP/C)
10/8/1997 Shining Path (SL)
10/8/1999 al-Qa’ida (AQ)
9/25/2000 Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU)
5/16/2001 Real Irish Republican Army (RIRA)
12/26/2001 Jaish-e-Mohammed (JEM)
12/26/2001 Lashkar-e Tayyiba (LeT)
3/27/2002 Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade (AAMB)
3/27/2002 Asbat al-Ansar (AAA)
3/27/2002 al-Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM)
8/9/2002 Communist Party of the Philippines/New People’s Army (CPP/NPA)
10/23/2002 Jemaah Islamiya (JI)
1/30/2003 Lashkar i Jhangvi (LJ)
3/22/2004 Ansar al-Islam (AAI)
7/13/2004 Continuity Irish Republican Army (CIRA)
12/17/2004 Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (formerly al-Qa’ida in Iraq)
6/17/2005 Islamic Jihad Union (IJU)
3/5/2008 Harakat ul-Jihad-i-Islami/Bangladesh (HUJI-B)
3/18/2008 al-Shabaab
5/18/2009 Revolutionary Struggle (RS)
7/2/2009 Kata’ib Hizballah (KH)
1/19/2010 al-Qa’ida in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP)
8/6/2010 Harakat ul-Jihad-i-Islami (HUJI)
9/1/2010 Tehrik-e Taliban Pakistan (TTP)
11/4/2010 Jaysh al-Adl (formerly Jundallah)
5/23/2011 Army of Islam (AOI)
9/19/2011 Indian Mujahedeen (IM)
3/13/2012 Jemaah Anshorut Tauhid (JAT)
5/30/2012 Abdallah Azzam Brigades (AAB)
9/19/2012 Haqqani Network (HQN)
3/22/2013 Ansar al-Dine (AAD)
11/14/2013 Boko Haram
11/14/2013 Ansaru
12/19/2013 al-Mulathamun Battalion (AMB)
1/13/2014 Ansar al-Shari’a in Benghazi
1/13/2014 Ansar al-Shari’a in Darnah
1/13/2014 Ansar al-Shari’a in Tunisia
4/10/2014 ISIL Sinai Province (formerly Ansar Bayt al-Maqdis)
5/15/2014 al-Nusrah Front
8/20/2014 Mujahidin Shura Council in the Environs of Jerusalem (MSC)
9/30/2015 Jaysh Rijal al-Tariq al Naqshabandi (JRTN)
1/14/2016 ISIL-Khorasan (ISIL-K)
5/20/2016 Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant’s Branch in Libya (ISIL-Libya)
7/1/2016 Al-Qa’ida in the Indian Subcontinent
8/17/2017 Hizbul Mujahideen (HM)
2/28/2018 ISIS-Bangladesh
2/28/2018 ISIS-Philippines
2/28/2018 ISIS-West Africa
5/23/2018 ISIS-Greater Sahara
7/11/2018 al-Ashtar Brigades (AAB)
9/6/2018 Jama’at Nusrat al-Islam wal-Muslimin (JNIM)
4/15/2019 Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC)
1/10/2020 Asa’ib Ahl al-Haq (AAH)

bessiedog 01-20-2020 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 57charlie (Post 4096643)
Qassem Soleimani was a terrorist, his name and influence is associated with more than a few of the following terrorist organizations:

Date Designated & Name
10/8/1997 Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG)
10/8/1997 Aum Shinrikyo (AUM)
10/8/1997 Basque Fatherland and Liberty (ETA)
10/8/1997 Gama’a al-Islamiyya (Islamic Group – IG)
10/8/1997 HAMAS
10/8/1997 Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM)
10/8/1997 Hizballah
10/8/1997 Kahane Chai (Kach)
10/8/1997 Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK, aka Kongra-Gel)
10/8/1997 Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)
10/8/1997 National Liberation Army (ELN)
10/8/1997 Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)
10/8/1997 Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ)
10/8/1997 Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
10/8/1997 PFLP-General Command (PFLP-GC)
10/8/1997 Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC)
10/8/1997 Revolutionary People’s Liberation Party/Front (DHKP/C)
10/8/1997 Shining Path (SL)
10/8/1999 al-Qa’ida (AQ)
9/25/2000 Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU)
5/16/2001 Real Irish Republican Army (RIRA)
12/26/2001 Jaish-e-Mohammed (JEM)
12/26/2001 Lashkar-e Tayyiba (LeT)
3/27/2002 Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade (AAMB)
3/27/2002 Asbat al-Ansar (AAA)
3/27/2002 al-Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM)
8/9/2002 Communist Party of the Philippines/New People’s Army (CPP/NPA)
10/23/2002 Jemaah Islamiya (JI)
1/30/2003 Lashkar i Jhangvi (LJ)
3/22/2004 Ansar al-Islam (AAI)
7/13/2004 Continuity Irish Republican Army (CIRA)
12/17/2004 Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (formerly al-Qa’ida in Iraq)
6/17/2005 Islamic Jihad Union (IJU)
3/5/2008 Harakat ul-Jihad-i-Islami/Bangladesh (HUJI-B)
3/18/2008 al-Shabaab
5/18/2009 Revolutionary Struggle (RS)
7/2/2009 Kata’ib Hizballah (KH)
1/19/2010 al-Qa’ida in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP)
8/6/2010 Harakat ul-Jihad-i-Islami (HUJI)
9/1/2010 Tehrik-e Taliban Pakistan (TTP)
11/4/2010 Jaysh al-Adl (formerly Jundallah)
5/23/2011 Army of Islam (AOI)
9/19/2011 Indian Mujahedeen (IM)
3/13/2012 Jemaah Anshorut Tauhid (JAT)
5/30/2012 Abdallah Azzam Brigades (AAB)
9/19/2012 Haqqani Network (HQN)
3/22/2013 Ansar al-Dine (AAD)
11/14/2013 Boko Haram
11/14/2013 Ansaru
12/19/2013 al-Mulathamun Battalion (AMB)
1/13/2014 Ansar al-Shari’a in Benghazi
1/13/2014 Ansar al-Shari’a in Darnah
1/13/2014 Ansar al-Shari’a in Tunisia
4/10/2014 ISIL Sinai Province (formerly Ansar Bayt al-Maqdis)
5/15/2014 al-Nusrah Front
8/20/2014 Mujahidin Shura Council in the Environs of Jerusalem (MSC)
9/30/2015 Jaysh Rijal al-Tariq al Naqshabandi (JRTN)
1/14/2016 ISIL-Khorasan (ISIL-K)
5/20/2016 Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant’s Branch in Libya (ISIL-Libya)
7/1/2016 Al-Qa’ida in the Indian Subcontinent
8/17/2017 Hizbul Mujahideen (HM)
2/28/2018 ISIS-Bangladesh
2/28/2018 ISIS-Philippines
2/28/2018 ISIS-West Africa
5/23/2018 ISIS-Greater Sahara
7/11/2018 al-Ashtar Brigades (AAB)
9/6/2018 Jama’at Nusrat al-Islam wal-Muslimin (JNIM)
4/15/2019 Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC)
1/10/2020 Asa’ib Ahl al-Haq (AAH)

So what.....your right...... but so what?

What’s that got to do with the scenario involving the cop?

dmcbride 01-20-2020 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bessiedog (Post 4096656)
So what.....your right...... but so what?

What’s that got to do with the scenario involving the cop?

Why are cops supporting a terrorist? Its ok to call out racism, it is ok to call out terrorists.

bessiedog 01-20-2020 06:50 PM

It’s called context.

And sorry, but it’s stupid to conclude that cops are supporting terrorists.


I’m betting a whiskey the Cop was trying to prevent a fight from breaking out.

It’s called keeping the peace.


The reporter was cruising around a demonstration (stupid demonstration or not... ya the dudes an enemy of our state.... ) simply to try and provoke a ‘newsworthy’ response to show that there are violent terrorists here.

Cops stumbled on to this..... he’s gotta keep the peace.... dudes chirping... cop wants no trouble so he threatens a disturbing the peace charge. Probably a good call.

You have fundamental rights and can excercise those rightsonly if they are determined to be reasonable in a democratic society.

Did you read what I posted above? Did you try and read sec 1 of the Charter...?

Or are you just upset?


The Northern Guard White supremecist group marches in Calgary usually every June. Cops show up to ensure the crowd dosent I getters with the march....

..... cops supporting Nazis there...?

Nope

dmcbride 01-20-2020 06:58 PM

I just see no problem calling terrorists out, shouldn’t be an issue in Canada.

bessiedog 01-20-2020 07:01 PM

That’s got nothing to do with the what the cop did in this situation....... you get that right?

dmcbride 01-20-2020 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bessiedog (Post 4096677)
That’s got nothing to do with the what the cop did in this situation....... you get that right?

I get his reasoning, but you don’t see the same response with other similar situations, Anifta comes to mind.

urban rednek 01-20-2020 07:11 PM

Logical progression of institutional social engineering.
 
1 Attachment(s)
Freedom of speech only applies to morally superior progressives that are proclaiming the approved doctrine. Everyone else is a combination racist, bigot, xenophobe, homophobe, islamophobe, misogynist. Therefore physical violence against them is OK and justified. Kids have been learning this for quite some time; at least long enough to get a gun and a badge.

expedition 01-20-2020 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmcbride (Post 4096674)
I just see no problem calling terrorists out, shouldn’t be an issue in Canada.

Are you willing to call out the world's worst terrorist ?

bessiedog 01-20-2020 07:15 PM

Nope.

Big pro gun demonstration in States today... betcha som lefties got arrested.

60’s had lots of lefties get arrested.

Your trying to see a ‘bias in the system’ and it ain’t there.....

But this reporter is sure trying to paint that perceptual picture.

It’s the reporter you should be ****ed at for manipulating you.

You got played.

New OP trying to play you too.

dmcbride 01-20-2020 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by expedition (Post 4096685)
Are you willing to call out the world's worst terrorist ?

Who’s that?

expedition 01-20-2020 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmcbride (Post 4096688)
Who’s that?

The USA.

Solimani was a product of US terrorism on Iran. fight fire with fire. ISIS is non existent In iran and many have credited solimani .

bessiedog 01-20-2020 07:31 PM

Ok... this is headin sideways

I’m out.

dmcbride 01-20-2020 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by expedition (Post 4096698)
The USA.

Solimani was a product of US terrorism on Iran. fight fire with fire. ISIS is non existent In iran and many have credited solimani .

Don’t want to derail to much, but Soleimani is a big part of isis.

57charlie’s post even says where and when.

HunterDave 01-20-2020 07:49 PM

Menzie’s a moron that does his best to create his own controversies. Isn’t he the same guy that caused a scene in a home for mentally vulnerable patients and had to be removed? Then he went outside and jumped in front of a bus and then claimed that it hit him. Same guy, right?

Every time he does something stupid he then claims that he’s somehow a victim of something or other.......it’s getting old.

Now he attends a vigil and tries to cause a disturbance by provoking the people in attendance. The Cop had it right by using the word inciting because that’s exactly what he did. Loss of freedom of speech my arse.

riden 01-20-2020 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HunterDave (Post 4096714)
Menzie’s a moron that does his best to create his own controversies. Isn’t he the same guy that caused a scene in a home for mentally vulnerable patients and had to be removed? Then he went outside and jumped in front of a bus and then claimed that it hit him. Same guy, right?

Every time he does something stupid he then claims that he’s somehow a victim of something or other.......it’s getting old.

Now he attends a vigil and tries to cause a disturbance by provoking the people in attendance. The Cop had it right by using the word inciting because that’s exactly what he did. Loss of freedom of speech my arse.

I agree with you 100%

When you Google the guy, WOW, but does he have a lot of run ins with police.

expedition 01-20-2020 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmcbride (Post 4096706)
Don’t want to derail to much, but Soleimani is a big part of isis.

57charlie’s post even says where and when.

Wikipedia

Orchestration of military escalation in 2015
In 2015, Soleimani began gathering support from various sources to combat the newly resurgent Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL)

RandyBoBandy 01-20-2020 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bessiedog (Post 4096642)

And if the mr 19 posts new (old) member would kindly read and understand section 1 of the charter ..... he might understand the cops actions.


Grow up guys

:sHa_sarcasticlol:

EZM 01-20-2020 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bessiedog (Post 4096677)
That’s got nothing to do with the what the cop did in this situation....... you get that right?

Save your breath, so many people on here will make you to be a liberal, terrorist lover within a few more posts - common sense, logic and reading comprehension isn't what some of our members are known for around here.

BTW - I get what you are saying and you are probably 100% spot on.

EZM 01-20-2020 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmcbride (Post 4096706)
Don’t want to derail to much, but Soleimani is a big part of isis.

57charlie’s post even says where and when.

Don't get me wrong - Soleimani definitely is no angel BUT he was also no friend of ISIS - the groups he influenced, and IRAN itself killed many ISIS fighters - probably more than the US did.

He hates (hated) ISIS just as much as the rest of the world (the majority of) does.

The people of IRAN also hate ISIS.

Buckhead 01-20-2020 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EZM (Post 4096785)
Save your breath, so many people on here will make you to be a liberal, terrorist lover within a few more posts - common sense, logic and reading comprehension isn't what some of our members are known for around here.

BTW - I get what you are saying and you are probably 100% spot on.

Obviously, a reporter should not go around trying to incite a riot - so the police had every reason to tell him to stop saying what he said.

There are a lot of educated members on this forum and I am certain that their comprehension skills are excellent.

Just not everyone agrees with kowtowing at the altar of political correctness.

bessiedog 01-20-2020 09:57 PM

Argh...! I’m back in.

What in the heck does cow towing to political correctness have to do with the vigil or what the reporter did?

It’s got nuffin ya do with it.

But boy!! The reporter sure as hell wants to make a link.

And the OP is howling at the dog whistle methinks.


This is a really super good example of the endemic problems of having ‘manufactured consent’ pieces at you fingertips beck and call....

The blaze ..... really?? A credible news source.,?

The repoter..... been discredited numerous times on various occasions.


Yet... gets used here as troll bait and wez gots people goose stepping g to his tune.


Sad man.....

Good troll thread btw.....

A S D 01-21-2020 06:43 AM

If people are questioned about something they support, and they dislike it, they should not be violent. Should they not have their support questioned because they might riot? They must be civil and defend or dicuss why they support a cause or position and without violence. The onus should be on them to be nonviolent even if someone else is being an idiot,

Bessiedog, are you one of those liberals lefties who are part of this call out culture trying intimidate and to score prestige points from your buddies for trying to set me a conservative in their place when you don't like what is said?

bessiedog 01-21-2020 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A S D (Post 4096881)
If people are questioned about something they support, and they dislike it, they should not be violent. Should they not have their support questioned because they might riot? They must be civil and defend or dicuss why they support a cause or position and without violence. The onus should be on them to be nonviolent even if someone else is being an idiot,

Bessiedog, are you one of those liberals lefties who are part of this call out culture trying intimidate and to score prestige points from your buddies for trying to set me a conservative in their place when you don't like what is said?


A S D ..... were they violent?

Strangely enough, our country says you have the right to do and think what you want, so long as it does not affect the peace or disrupt society.

We allow Satanists to publicly worship Satan.

We allow Nazis to publicly march....

We allow Islamic fundamentalists to call our country evil as well I guess.

So long as they don’t disrupt-hurt our society.

I think we should challenge these extremist groups. Yup.

But (as the Cop was noting) there’s a time and a place.

Label me a lefty... yea ok. Lol.

Maybe I was too snarky in my responses, I shouldn’t do that I agree. But I really think your totally misinterpreting the event because the reporter guy is stirring it up. And your being manipulated.

You seem to want an us vs them world.


But yah... you be you and call me an enemy.


My point and the cops point is that there’s a time and a place to stand opposed .

I think the vigil was way wrong. I reject Islamic fundamentalism, satanism, nazism..... and manipulative journalism.

Pm me if you still are not clear on my point .

millartech 01-21-2020 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bessiedog (Post 4096803)
Argh...! I’m back in.



What in the heck does cow towing to political correctness have to do with the vigil or what the reporter did?



It’s got nuffin ya do with it.



But boy!! The reporter sure as hell wants to make a link.



And the OP is howling at the dog whistle methinks.





This is a really super good example of the endemic problems of having ‘manufactured consent’ pieces at you fingertips beck and call....



The blaze ..... really?? A credible news source.,?



The repoter..... been discredited numerous times on various occasions.





Yet... gets used here as troll bait and wez gots people goose stepping g to his tune.





Sad man.....



Good troll thread btw.....



This and every other post you have in here are spot on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A S D 01-21-2020 08:41 AM

The average citizen should never have to back up and shut up because a group may become violent. The peaceful or those that wish to debate loose their abilities to exercise their civil liberties because the protester's threaten to become violent? That bothers me. I think the gov't and legal industry has got that wrong.

Should the government force us to shut up because a group might get violent? In the end our system starts to fail. All that has to happen for a group to take power or push their agenda is to threaten violence?

It is up to the group to show control and respect others who question their belief. Was Menzies being a little too in your face, I think so. And yes, I could see he was stirring the pot.

And no, I am not a "them vs us person". I think you are right in identifying that as a major problem in society right now.

If you take time, you will see I follow nobody but try my best to make sense of what is happening myself. I try to see a situation or problem from several points of view. Then do my best to devlop an accurate view. I believe that if I'm wrong, I best change my view. Winning a debate if I'm wrong does not make me right.

In the end, I think that nobody should have their freedom curtailed because a group may become violent. The group threatening violence must obey the law.

No I am not being maipulated. I can see what is going on. I'm not stupid. Other people on this message board can reason, not just you.


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