Too much 45-70
 

I think I finally found a 45-70 load that is officially a killer on both ends. Last week my wife and I were in Edmonton and I happened to wander into cabelas south. There just happened to be two boxes of hornady 350g FP interlocks on the shelf. I bought both.

Later that day as we came back into Calgary my wife wanted to sneak into Cabelas to look at Muck boots and I just happened to see hornady 350g FP interlocks on the shelf there as well. Two boxes. I bought both.

Anyhoo, I loaded a bunch up with H4198 and headed to the range today. Hodgedon's max load is listed at 54 grains. I started at 46.5. By the time I got to 50.5 my shoulder was more than a tad sore. I broke up each group with the .22 and paced myself but I quit half way through the 51.0 grain string. The second to last shot felt like it temporarily deflated my left lung and the last one pushed all the blood out of my torso. :budo:

I might be exaggerating, but not by much.

I left the chrony at home but I would peg the 50.5's at about 2075ish fps. That group with a Skinner peep was just over an inch at 50 meters. I figure I can put it where it's needed and if it hurts me that much, it'll hurt whatever is on the end a whole heck of a lot more.

Like they say, good enough for government work!:sHa_shakeshout:

Colin

If you want a real eye opener load some 500gr bullets to the max.

450's, 500's - even 525's - they are dang stout, but the push you. The recoil impulse on this load was a hard snap. Like a 325 ftx load on steroids.

Colin

nobody said
 

You have to run them full throttle.I run my Marlin at about 3/4 MAX and cut 1/2 groups at 100 yards with either 300gr HP and 350gr FN.The 350's are stiff on the shoulder.

I was real hot for a 45-70 a few years back. Darren32 loaned me his Marlin and two boxes of full house loads he cooked up. Took a few teeth rattling shots and I put that sucker away. I had a box of Remington ammo I picked up that I didn't even feel like trying. Gave it to Cat. That 45-70 when loaded hot is a real thumper.

Then I go bear hunting with Dean2 who cooked up some gentler loads and the recoil was very manageable.

I'm still intrigued by the gun just for shizzles.

My favorite range load is still a 405 cast over 34 grains of h4198 with a cigarette paper stuffer. A gentle push and you have time to lift your muffs off to hear the ... ding!

Colin

1/2 inch groups with .45 bullets at 100 yards?? 5 shot groups too. My gun might not do that with one shot

The Hammer of Thor
 

Its the handloaded 405 JFP that I find uncomfortable. The various 300's dont bother me much.

My hand loads with 350gr round nose hornadys and a stout load of varget will make your butt pucker. I usually limit myself to 5 three shot groups then that’s enough for awhile.

What gun? I’m building up a stout load to that may be tough but I’m shooting a pedersoli billy dixon and its heavy so im hoping that will help out

what us idots will do for giggles ... snapped my wrist real good on max'd out 405gr pills... took a year to get it back... an english/straight grip guide gun - non-ported

worst is
 

A Ruger #3 in 45-70

I have a BLR pistol grip in 450 Marlin. First 3 shots out of 5 gave me scope eye.

you all have issues:scared0018:

I could get thru 40 rds of 320gr@2050 with my #1,no sweat, but, it does have a Limbsaver on it. I managed a box of 400gr factory @ 2050 with the Ruger pad on it, 15-20 were getting painful, With the Limbsaver, went the 20 no problem. It made a big difference, by putting that pad on.

I have the same rifle but with a scout scope on it. You might want to convert to it

Mine is a marlin 1895 CB with the 26” octagon barrel. My 300wm is mild compared to my 45/70.

A Ruger #1 45-70 is why I now shot 240 wby mag.

A 45-70 doesn't need to be shot at warp speed to get results, a 405 cast at 1600-1700 fps will do everything that needs doing with a 45-70.
The bison were wiped out by black powder loads doing barely 1200 fps and they were killing out at most distances people won't shoot with a scoped high power modern rifle.
Jacketed bullets from a 45-70 don't penetrate as good as cast due to the hardness of the cast alloy.
J bullets are rather soft, the faster they go, the faster they stop.

I agree with 303. The guys that like to detach their retina's, separate their shoulders and give themselves headaches hot loading 45-70s are only doing it because they enjoy the pain. Those hot loads DO NOT KILL GAME any better than the lower speed loads. A 350 grain Horn RN will go through a bear or a Moose length ways doing 1400 FPS or 2200 FPS. The outcome from the bear's perspective is exactly the same "DEAD".

I shot 45-70 on bear control and used every load you can think of (we also tried every cartridge we owned or could borrow and the 38-55, 444 Marlin and 45-70 were among the most efficient bear killers for not having to track shot bears. Far better than 12 gauges, or the high speed magnums like the 7mm, 300 Win, 338 Win. Not until you got to the 375 H&H and 458 Win did you find equivalent dead right there performance.) From teeth rattlers to the very tame factory Remington 405 loads made to be safe in Trap Doors, we shot a tremendous number of bears over the years, The lower speed rounds killed just as well as the high speed rounds and your recovery time for a second shot on another bear was WAY faster with 1400- 1900 FPS loads.

Once you start getting over 1800 FPS recoil becomes REALLY noticeable. The 45-70 kills because they make a big hole, not as the result of hydro-static shock, which starts at 2500 FPS. Hot loaded 45-70s are a pure waste of time and self inflicted pain. Back the loads down, you will group way better and you will shoot them way more often.

Anyone that tells you a Marlin Lever isn't accurate doesn't know what he is talking about. See below.

https://i.imgur.com/l1NNAA1l.jpg

I shot the above rifle and load. It was pleasant. Dean wouldn't sell me the gun so I gave it right back to him:)

I used to run all my traditional BP cartridge rifles like the 40/65,45/70, and 45/110 at BP velocities and never had an issue with recoil, or killing power .
I never tried to kill stuff over 200 yards with them however .
Cat

I'd fold up my ball cap to place between the butt stock and shoulder and get at it, the card board in the ball cap displaces the recoil impact.

It increases the over all inches of the recoil pad.

I got tired of doing the ball cap thing, went with the best quality stiff gel pad I could get,,, life is good.

You won't even think about the recoil when hunting as your focus point will be looking at the rewards of take down on those critters.

Good luck on your adventures

Used to own a SSK hand cannon in 45/70. That was quite the experience.

Heavy recoil?????
 

Been there done that---Might try the 6.5 Creedmoor,shoot all day, ring some gongs at 400-500m, deadly accurate, excellant if need be long range hunting rifle,
Hard not to fall in love when fairly easy to put 5 bullets in a half inch at 100m.

I put a 350 grain Hornady end to end through a black bear one time. Great caliber and bullet!

I thought we men were discussing the .45/70 Government round ?

Does your wife know you were shooting her gun ? :)

Puma

Shooting a creedmoor is like doing crossfit, you're required to tell everyone whether it's relevant or not.

Wanna have a treat :shark: try some of those HSM, 420gr +P, Bear Loads.
1740fps at the muzzle from my 18.5” guide gun.

Then there’s these bad boys I wanna load up.

https://imgur.com/a/uhKAN9N

Wanna have a treat :shark: try some of those HSM, 420gr +P, Bear Loads.
1740fps at the muzzle from my 18.5” guide gun.

Then there’s these bad boys I wanna load up.

https://i.imgur.com/44FytC8.jpg

Until then I’m just as happy to keep shooting 300’s at 1800fps