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Outfitter Illegally Sold Bighorn Sheep Permits to an American?
Details are sketchy and convoluted, but the gist seems to be that an American puchased Alberta Bighorn Sheep Outfitter Permits from the new Mantracker, Chad Lenz ( Savage Encounters Outfitting).
I look forward to F&W's and APOS's statement after the court case. http://www.calgarysun.com/2012/06/18...ighorn-permits Quote:
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is he the same outfitter i seen on tv taking Tom Miranda Big horn sheep hunting with a bow>> seen it on wild tv
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This shall prove interesting!
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Tell me again how good it is that outfitters are sold tags that Albertans can't get?
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I'd wait till ALL the info comes out before I'd be feeling too froggy on this one. :)
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Disagreement between two business partners... What's the big deal?
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As usual, I suspect that APOS will do nothing. The usual excuse is "double jeopardy". They didn't even have the balls to pull the license for a multiple convicted poacher who did jail time in the States for Lacy Act and was assessed the largest fine to an outfitter here in Alberta.
The only credibility they have is in promoting the outfitting industry, but their disciplinary committee is nothing but show case. It's time for their DAO to be pulled back by the Minister. |
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Bighorn Allocations can only be owned by an Alberta citizen who holds a Class S outfitter designation. From the scrambled media report, the American claims that he purchased the permits from Lenz, and then leased the permits to another outfitter. The American claims he has control of the permits, and is suing for a declaration from the Ab courts that they are now his, which would be illegal. This is a very interesting web with lots of spiders. |
The American claims fault? The outfit that leased the permits.. Who is that?
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Interesting....this proves the almighty dollar reigns supreme! Nice that an American thinks he can come in here and own something that he can't. Also nice that someone from here seems to have sold it to him to give him that impression.....
Nothing shocks me anymore.... LC |
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What AB animals died illegally in this case?
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Good post Walking Buffalo. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Lenz and his guides have always been in trouble in this area for a variety of things. He should have got a better lawyer though if he intends to win the case.
Talking about selling tags to Americans, another outfitter who lives on the other side of highway 22 from Lenz sold his permits to an American consortium. I believe a Resident here holds the permits for them. All legal so I am told. |
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Grizz |
see how addicting sheep hunting is! people will do whatever, spend whatever to chase the almighty bighorn....personally i cannot blame them lol, anyhow, no amount of armchair quarterbacking will do any good, its in the system, let it play out now
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non resident (canadians and aliens) should not be able to hold any interest in alberta outfitts.......ive often wondered how Shawn Mann (american) is able to operate his bird camp east of edmonton.
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Walking Buffalo, You better read what you quoted a little closer before you post Chads name in this manner.
(Outfitter Illegally Sold Bighorn Sheep Permits to an American?) Heres what you posted. Details are sketchy and convoluted, but the gist seems to be that an American puchased Alberta Bighorn Sheep Outfitter Permits from the new Mantracker, Chad Lenz ( Savage Encounters Outfitting). Walking Buffalo the tags were not purchased from chad they were put in chads name.( why you had to put the new mantracker on there is beyond me). Morgan said when he purchased the permits he consulted with a lawyer who informed him he’d need a local connection, such as Lenz, to lease the permits to hunters. “He explained those permits would always have to be held by an Albertan, a Class-S guide,” he told lawyer Teddy Nobles. So when Bruce borrowed money to chad, chad purchased the tags from Stricker and Ken they were always in chads name. So when things got tight and Chad was late on making a payment to Bruce ,Bruce tryed to transfer the tags into Frank Simpson name. Of course the tags were never in bruces name so he couldnt, but the paperwork caused a chitshow which in return the 60000$ worth of hunters chad lost in that year caused another battle and no hunters were booked in that year. I only posted here to set the facts straight. Like Steve said business deal gone sour. |
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So how does the american factor into this?....was he the money man? and this Chad guy was the tag holder (out of necessity, since the american can't "own" the tag) |
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When the law says you can't own something because, say, you are a foreigner and to get around that you "put it in someone else's name" in order to own it, why is that not fraud in your books? Would you lend your name to a scheme like that? How about for money? The idea that the Outfitting racket should regulate itself is dumb. |
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From the "he said....she said" Gunslinger posted it sounds like more than just a business deal gone sour. Probably a civil court battle for a long time. They both deserve what they get...BIG LAWYER BILLS and lost crediibility.
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Can you explain the part where you talked about owning tags/permits/allocations " but having to put them in an Albertan's name"........Why? |
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Doesn't sound like anything out of the ordinary regarding the way tags are bought and sold across Canada. Sounds like the issue is between Chad and his money man.
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The investor is likely trying to claim ownership as he loaned the money. No different then a bank trying to collect on a debt. You don't make your truck payment they come and pick up the truck. The only problem here is that they can not legally acquire the allocations unless they are a Canadian resident and have held a guide license in Alberta. |
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