Sorry SHeep life intruded for a bit here, by no means am I avoiding you, I may be wrong in your mind and my views may be whacked but hey I believe in 'em. I will answer your questions ASAP but work is a b#$% so im off again, I like a good informative debate as much as the next guy as you know so Im not done here yet, wh knows you may change my mind.......NAH talk to you later thanx ps lol I will give you the constitution 1 from the pyra thread my bad, although I give myself partial credit for rights and freedoms section :rolleyes