[Icefisher2885]

Wow, the type of logic that has been thrown around in here is enough to make one's head implode.

First, I'll start by saying that I'm a die hard bow hunter, and if I have to make a choice between whether I hunt with a rifle or bow then there is no question that I'll choose bow. I'll also say that I think mule deer going on a draw for archery sucks. My main reason for saying it sucks that I really question the reliability of the online survey as a means of determining that our general season should be removed. Also, I have no doubt that now that the general hunting public is being made aware that the online survey can be used as a means to take away hunter opportunity, that the results of it will be amazingly skewed in the future. I don't think there is any doubt that people will be lying about what they shot and where they shot it out of fear of losing their hunting privileges. Call it selfish, call it dishonest, hell, condemn it in any way out like, but the bottom line is that it will almost certainly happen from here on out. All that being said, if it can be reliably shown that archers are taking more than their fair share of the harvest, then I guess that I can live with it going on a draw, even though I still don't like it. Lets face it, once the general season is taken away, its not likely to ever come back. A loss of opportunity hurts us all, not just a single group. Today it is archers' hunting allocations, next it will be rifle hunters' allocations.

Now, I have to address some of the drivel that has been all over this thread. I honestly had a hard time wrapping my head around what I was reading at times. I'll start here:

Originally Posted by Dan Boone

So mulecrazy, u feel it Is your god given right to chase mule deer 3 months each year?
Let's open up for rifle on sept 1st as well.
That way between the archers and rifle guys we can ensure every big buck is killed long before they have a chance to reproduce.
Get a clue man, the divide is caused by the inequality that exists right now. Evening out the playing field might just bring the 2 together better.
Bowhunters should have first access but difinately not a 2 month season!

First, why do you feel the need to imply that he feels its his god given right to hunt 3 months out of the year? The bottom line is that the rules stipulated that we could hunt 3 months out of the year if we bought and archery tag and also got drawn for the rifle season. Was it his god given right to hunt within those stipulations? Sure as hell was. Does he have a god given right to be upset by the loss of opportunity? Sure he does. I have no idea what this particular statement had to do with anything - it was essentially nothing more than an ad-hominem attack that had no substance.

Next, your statement that "we should just let rifle hunters start on Sept 1, that way we can kill all the deer" is just silly. Want to make sure all the deer are killed? Remove bow hunting all together and just let the rifle hunters take care of it - they'll do it in short order. This statement is just ridiculous. You speak about inequality, well the reason for the so called "inequality" is that the weapon you have such a gripe about is so much less efficient an effective than the other one you speak of. It takes bow hunters 2 months of being able to hunt 6-7 days per week to meet or exceed the 15% allocation in some zones (and they don't even meet the 15% of many zones), while it takes rifle hunters a whopping 4 weeks to meet the 85% allocation of kills - it also takes less hunting days per week since the prairie zones only allow you to hunt 4 days a week. Evening out the playing field? Please explain to me how taking opportunity away from the group that harvests 15% of the animals evens the playing field? Ok, so archery success may drop from 15% to 10%, please tell me how the playing field has been evened? Archers shoot less animals, but rifle hunters will still shoot as many as they ever did. Yes, this sounds like a great way to bring the 2 sides together.

Originally Posted by Dan Boone

I don't eat deer meat, so why shoot an animal I do not want?
I have killed a couple nice mule deer with my muzzle loader though!

Originally Posted by Dan Boone

I prefer muzzleloader to bow. Is that a crime, am I to be shipped off to he'll for my preference?

So let me get this straight, its ok for you to kill deer with your muzzie but not with a bow? I don't follow what you are trying to get at here. You ask the rhetorical question "why shoot an animal I don't want" as justification for you not killing a mule deer with your bow, but on the very next line you say that you did, in fact, shoot several animals that you didn't want with your muzzie. You later state that you gave the animals to a friend of yours, that's fine, but it doesn't change the fact that you totally contradicted yourself in saying that you don't shoot mule deer with a bow because you don't like them but that you will shoot them with a muzzie.

Next, no, you are not to be shipped off to hell for your preference to use a muzzie. Use whatever you like! But by that same token, bow hunters should not be shipped to hell for not wanting to give up a season that they have had for years and years.

Originally Posted by Dan Boone

And there lies my problem, it's open to everyone.
Wether they can hit a barn at 30 yards or I can stick em in a tennis ball at 50.

Ok, by that logic, please tell me where it states that putting in for the draw isn't open to just anyone, whether or not they can hit a 1" dot or can't hit a 1' square at 100 yards? Do you really think that the draw acts as a deterrent for those with less skill? Not very likely. The same guys that can't hit a barn at 30 with a bow are likely the same people that can't hit a 1' square with their rifle - they will be out there regardless. Again, your logic does not support your argument.

Originally Posted by Dan Boone

I just can't justify a 2 month bow season!

Originally Posted by Dan Boone

And I want a muzzy season!

So let me get this straight, you want to remove a portion of the season that belongs to a weapon that accounts for 15% of the harvest over a 2 month period, in favor of adding a season for a weapon that is more or less as effective as a rifle? Please explain where the logic lies in that. The success rates for muzzle loader will absolutely dwarf the success that occurs in bow season. You will actually end up having more animals killed in the month of October by doing this than you would if you left bow season alone. Again, you totally undermine your own argument. Please refer back to the first thing I quoted wherein you stated that we should just turn the rifle guys loose early and kill all the animals.

I'm guessing your justification for this will be that we should just offer a very limited number of muzzie tags. Well, yes, I suppose that will work fine, but it will be at the expense of even more hunting opportunity. That's all we need, just keep taking our own opportunities away until we have none. That leads me to my next point.

Originally Posted by Dan Boone

It's fine the way it is or less if I had a choice. Starting about nov 20th.
To allow some good genetics to be passed on.

Ok, now I see the pattern. Are you sure you actually like hunting? Because as far as I can tell, you are all about removing opportunity at ever turn. Not only do you want bow season to go on draw or be cut in half, but you would like rifle hunters to have their time reduced from 4 weeks to 11 days. Gotcha. That's great. This may come as a surprise, but every year Alberta puts out some of the biggest animals in the world, despite the seasons that are currently in place. The genetics are clearly being passed on. You want to look for the culprit of reduced mule deer numbers? Look no further than the massive CWD culls and the issuing of astronomical tag numbers throughout the south over the past several years - yes, tags that were issued to rifle hunters. Don't put the blame on bow hunters - that's clearly not where it lies.

Originally Posted by jryley

GREAT!!! couldnt be happier! I know far too many guys that consider themselves superior sportsmen or true purists simply becausenthey carry a bow. Yet in my area (232) they are all out opening morning with their bow, running any mule they can....knowing that 232 has been crushed by the mismanagement of tags, cwd, and the influx of road only hunters
From edmonton and beyond.

I don't even know why I'm going to acknowledge this because its just clear that you don't like bow hunters. I'll rephrase it for you so that it reflects what some of my experiences have been.

Rifle season has been reduced to 2 weeks? GREAT!!! Couldn't be happier! I know far too many guys that consider themselves superior sportsmen or true purists simply because they shoot the latest Coopers or Christianson rifle. Yet in my area (various areas of the south), they are all out there opening morning with their rifles, running any mule they can...knowing that the entire south has been crushed by the mismanagement of tags, cwd, and influx of road only hunters from Medicine Hat, Calgary, and beyond.

See how ridiculous that looks? Yeah. I don't even know why I wasted the effort to type it out.