Quote:
Originally Posted by lclund1946
Rem 6 1/2 Small Rifle Primers written on the package and similar to CCI 400 but may take slightly less pressure. Rem 7 1/2 Small Rife Bench Rest on the package and very similar to Federal Small Rifle 205 Gold Medal Match and CCI BR4 Small Rifle Match Primers. Although the Rem 7 1/2 will take a bit more pressure, before showing pressure signs, than the 205GMM they take a bit less pressure than the CCI BR4. Any of these will work fine in the 17 Hornet just be aware that they will take more pressure than the case will handle and any cratering or primer flow of the primers, in a fire formed case, is likely too hot for this 50,000 PSI rated case. Use data from the Ramshot Manual as some Hornady loads are too hot with AA1680 and try AA 2200 if you can get it. (see Link) http://www.ramshot.com/load-data/. Ramshot use Winchester Small Rifle Primers (WSR) in their Data.
Hodgdon have pressure data for Lil Gun at a Max 10.0 grains but I would avoid using it as it can be quite volatile and cases of detonation have been reported. However their CFE BLK, or blackout powder shows great promise for this cartridge and is what I would be looking for. Hodgdon use Federal 205M primers in their loads.
I did not find a problem with the Early Brass but the early Factory ammo was loaded too hot, with a temperature sensitive powder, and I had a primer blow. I also believe that this was the problem with reloading Factory 1X fired brass as the primer pockets were already loose. However I did not reload these cases and some reported shallow primer pockets which I did not experience. One blown primer was enough with my Savage 25 as it blew the extractor out of the bolt so I sold it along with likely the first set of Hornady dies to hit Canada as a friend brought them up from the States before they were readily available in Canada. I found these dies to be a perfect fit as they sized brass to within 0.001", of a fire formed brass at the neck, shoulder and base datum and HS as well. Got an opportunity to buy a CZ 527 American along with a set of Redding FL dies and a bunch of fired brass and ammo. Found the Reloaded brass to have about 0.0012- 0.0015" excess HS although that could have been because the new brass had not fireformed?? At any rate the Redding Dies overworked the brass at the shoulder and base, compared to the Hornady dies so I recommending buying Hornady.
I had an opportunity to compare some brass from some of the "New" Factory ammo and found that it held nearly a grain less than the "Old" brass and primers seated so hard that they were flattened a bit from my hand held primer. The new factory rounds were running much less pressure/velociyty as well. Please be aware of this and load accordingly and start low with a pressure ladder. I have no further interest in this cartridge although it performs well with the new factory ammo and perhaps even better with handloads?? Just be careful as pressures can really jump up fast in this small cartridge. |
Here is an example of the volatility of LilGun loaded just 0.1 grains under Hornady's Start load. Like the early factory rounds it is really temperature sensitive in that it does not "Show pressure Signs" at lower temperatures.
"A friend has been loading Lil Gun in a 17 Hornet.
9.8gr.----- 20 gr V max.
The load was developed in cool weather for shooting sage rats.
Pressure seemed normal with no ill effects on a sage rat shoot in cool (70-75*) weather.
Cases were reloaded and primer pockets were tight.
The next trip the air temp was hotter (90-95).
When he tried to reload them after that the primer pockets were too loose to use them.
He said he left the ammo in the sun and made no real effort to cool the barrel.
This leads me to believe that Lil Gun is quite temperature sensitive.
I have shot a 17 cal. for 40 years and am aware that small changes in 17 bores can make a BIG difference.
So what say you gents? Have any experience with Lil Gun and temperature caused pressure spikes?...."
This fellow from NZ found the "new factory 20 grain loads to be much slower in his CZ 527 American, than Hornady's early ammo that they claimed 3650 fps, just as I did.
"factory hornady ammo 3540fps". He also had some good info on CFE BLK
"CFE Blackout, Hornardy brass and WSR primer. five shots of each.
20gr v-max.
12g - 3470fps
12.3g - 3566fps
12.6g - 3738fps
12.8g - 3779fps.".
It would appear that the Hodgdon Max Load of 12.8 may be a bit on the hot side especially if the powder is a bit temperature sensitive. I would look for a "Good Load" using a pressure ladder working up in 0.1 grain increments from 12.0 to 12.5 grains which should get to 3650 which they show as max velocity. I would do this when the temperature was near the max that I would be using it. Perhaps this fellow would chime if he is on AOF which is likely as he has spent time in Northern Alberta.