Smithers Brothers: The Right Side Of Gateway

[pogo]

Somebody here said the pipeline will go through come hell or high water. Well here's some more high water for ya! Looks like they know where their bread is buttered, and whose bread Enbridge really wants to butter!

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/02...n_1310502.html



Might as well start bracing yourselves for this too. Take some of that money you're all making in Alberta and run your "Diesels" out this summer for a long hard fuggen look. Anybody with half an ounce of conservationism in them won't want any pipelining and drilling there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKHYz...eature=related

http://pipeupagainstenbridge.ca/blog...respass_notice

[Skybuster]

Pogo, I am mildly confused by your title. Why the reference to Smithers brothers?

[fargineyesore]

Originally Posted by pogo

Somebody here said the pipeline will go through come hell or high water. Well here's some more high water for ya! Looks like they know where their bread is buttered, and whose bread Enbridge really wants to butter!

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/02...n_1310502.html



Might as well start bracing yourselves for this too. Take some of that money you're all making in Alberta and run your "Diesels" out this summer for a long hard fuggen look. Anybody with half an ounce of conservationism in them won't want any pipelining and drilling there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKHYz...eature=related

http://pipeupagainstenbridge.ca/blog...respass_notice

Been there. Nice place, but no more special than some other places that have pipelines through them. I guess a pipeline is only acceptable if its bringing the product for you to use? By the way, people in BC run diesel trucks too and BC will gain jobs from a pipeline as well. Pipelines are the safest way to transport product, which is a proven fact.

[pogo]

Originally Posted by Skybuster

Pogo, I am mildly confused by your title. Why the reference to Smithers brothers?

Don't worry. You will get over it. It's called Pogoitis. It can be cured with an open mind. ; ))

It is a play on words for anyone old enough to remember The Smothers Brothers. I referenced Smithers brothers because they are my ilk.

Cheers.

PS

How 'bout our boys, eh? Top o' the league! Watched Cody last night. Not sure about that deal. He looked pretty good, and we'll see him again Saturday.

[hillbillyreefer]

Whaaaat?

A lil' too much of BCs main export?

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by pogo

Anybody with half an ounce of conservationism in them won't want any pipelining and drilling there.

And anyone with a half an ounce of knowledge about how pipelines actually work will realize that the animals won't even know they are there for the most part, as opposed to, say.... the popular BC enviro practice of clear cutting forrests.

There's been an oil pipeline from Alberta to the west coast for decades. Fill us in on the untold environemntal havoc it's caused.

[Skybuster]

By "your ilk" do you mean you lived there or is there some other connection. I ask because I grew up in Smithers and consider it my home town. That was a lot of years ago, but most of my childhood memories come from there. Living on a ranch out by Quick, then living in an idyllic setting on Lake Kathlyn. I grew up hunting and fishing that area, Huston to Hazelton, out to Babine Lake. ahhh the memories.

I also have been one of the ones that has stated the pipeline will go through, not from my desire to see it, but from what I have seen our federal government pushing. Hearing that Smithers, Terrace, Rupert, and the Skeena Region have all signed on against the pipeline is very welcoming. But I wonder how much impact it will have. Hopefully it stops the whole deal.

My biggest concern is what will happen in the Douglas Channel, but the Skeena watershed is a concern as well.

Cheers.

[braggadoe]

- The 1 000,000 litre August 2000 Pine River (Chetwynd BC) oil spill was Canada’s most expensive oil spill to clean. $30,000,000 was spent, and local municipal coffers in Chetwynd were strained as the town’s sole water supply from the river was contaminated.

just one of the many okotokian.

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by braggadoe

- The 1 000,000 litre August 2000 Pine River (Chetwynd BC) oil spill was Canada’s most expensive oil spill to clean. $30,000,000 was spent, and local municipal coffers in Chetwynd were strained as the town’s sole water supply from the river was contaminated.

just one of the many okotokian.

thanks for that

[Erik]

The only thing that bothers me about the whole proposal is why they chose Kitimat over Prince Rupert as the port. Maybe I'm missing some info but I think Prince Rupert's port is deep enough and big enough for supertankers and there is sure a lot less rocks on the way out. To me, the riskiest part of the procedure is near shore tanker operations, not pipelines.

[pogo]

[QUOTE=Skybuster;1326705] I grew up hunting and fishing that area, Huston to Hazelton, out to Babine Lake. ahhh the memories.
QUOTE]

I should have come to that game. I will PM you.

[pogo]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

And anyone with a half an ounce of knowledge about how pipelines actually work will realize that the animals won't even know they are there for the most part, as opposed to, say.... the popular BC enviro practice of clear cutting forrests.

There's been an oil pipeline from Alberta to the west coast for decades. Fill us in on the untold environemntal havoc it's caused.

An oil pipeline for decades? What....are you running out of relevant points to make? lol! It's not like Gateway is transitting bald ass prairie. I guess you just can't relate. That land and sea belongs to all of us. There might come a time when the skinny little tract of wilderness lee side of the Rockies won't be enough for Albertans. They might actually venture somewhere other than the Diesel Parade to the Shuswap every summer and find it poisoned. Unlike Albertans, British Columbians are wise enough not to be hostage to their own fortune.

[trophyboy]

The pipeline will eventually go ahead and that will be a great thing for BC and Canada!

[Sneeze]

Originally Posted by trophyboy

The pipeline will eventually go ahead and that will be a great thing for BC and Canada!

It will never go ahead. They would be better served trying to teach cats fly space ships.

None of these people have any concept of how an economy actually works. Money flow, capital investment, and tax are lost concepts with no correlation.

The only thing that makes sense to them is the "not in my backyard" argument.

We should be looking to run this pipeline through the NWT and Yukon to the coast. Even into Montana, Idaho and Washington is more likely. There is ZERO chance of B.C. allowing it. I am surprised they are even wasting their time trying. After hearing the chic from Prince Rupert City council on Rutherford today, I will never spend 1 cent in that town. What a bunch of hypocrites.

[winger7mm]

Originally Posted by Sneeze

It will never go ahead. They would be better served trying to teach cats fly space ships.

None of these people have any concept of how an economy actually works. Money flow, capital investment, and tax are lost concepts with no correlation.

The only thing that makes sense to them is the "not in my backyard" argument.

We should be looking to run this pipeline through the NWT and Yukon to the coast. Even into Montana, Idaho and Washington is more likely. There is ZERO chance of B.C. allowing it. I am surprised they are even wasting their time trying. After hearing the chic from Prince Rupert City council on Rutherford today, I will never spend 1 cent in that town. What a bunch of hypocrites.

Partly why Alberta is the numer 1 province, I love this place and will fight the wife hand and teeth if she tries to make me move to that place

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by pogo

An oil pipeline for decades? What....are you running out of relevant points to make? lol!

I'm afraid you've lost me. I simply pointed out that that TransMountain has been moving oil to the west coast since the 1950's. How is that 'running out of relevant points to make"? I guess I shouldn't be bringing facts to the debate. Let's stick to emotion, eh?

[pogo]

Originally Posted by fargineyesore

Been there. Nice place, but no more special than some other places that have pipelines through them. I guess a pipeline is only acceptable if its bringing the product for you to use? By the way, people in BC run diesel trucks too and BC will gain jobs from a pipeline as well. Pipelines are the safest way to transport product, which is a proven fact.

That doesn't leave much to choose between you and that other scourge from China. The Pine Beetle thought the same thing as you when it got off the boat and saw the B.C. forests for the first time. There is one difference. The Pine Beetle needs the B.C. forests to survive.

The safest way to protect our land and sea is not to transport any product at all. Life will go on without the pipeline.

[trophyboy]

Very amusing that we allow uneducated hypocrites to have a voice in something that they no absolutely nothing about. The oil could also be shipped by rail quite easily which would create alot more problems for the environment than the pipeline ever will. This pipeline will go ahead. The only thing that can stop it is the natives and their greed which could make the project uneconomical by the time they get their"fair share". Anyone else notice the enviros are taking over the world?

[pogo]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

I'm afraid you've lost me. I simply pointed out that that TransMountain has been moving oil to the west coast since the 1950's. How is that 'running out of relevant points to make"? I guess I shouldn't be bringing facts to the debate. Let's stick to emotion, eh?

Nope, sorry Oke. I'm just not buyin' it. Not much of a fact, either. Nor a supportive one.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2..._TIMELINE.html

Two or three wrongs don't make a right. Trans wants to double capacity and Gateway's capacity is GINORMOUS compared to what was built in the 50's and the line that leaked in Chetwynd in 2000. 1,000,000 litres went into the Pine River and that pales in comparison to what can be dumped into the Bulkley et al. Not to mention what will happen on the coast. Transmountain capacity is what, 200,000 barrels a day? Then double that maybe. Gateway will stream some 700,000+ barrels a day, and it WILL leak. Nothing on God's green earth has ever or will ever be engineered that WILL NOT fail. So, kindly leave the land for the living. The snake oil flowing already is too much. And the snakeoil salesmen want more. No thanks.

http://pipeupagainstenbridge.ca/blog...respass_notice

http://www.wetsuweten.com/files/WCEL...edownriver.pdf

http://wcel.org/our-work/tar-sands-tankers-pipelines-0

http://video.ca.msn.com/?mkt=en-ca&v...are:permalink:

BTW, I couldn't help but notice your costume is green. Closet conservationist by chance?

[dantonsen]

the more I think about it the more it seems like a dumb idea... Why stick a pipeline through BC to serve China, do we really want china breathing down our neck?

I don't think most people even realize eastern canada actually imports oil from overseas... we'll get competetive pricing there as they're paying 126$ a barrel right now, I'm sure they'd be happy to buy AB oil for 106$ barrel.

What about keystone? if we get oil to the US we are helping our neighbour who we rely on for defense and our economic well being. The USA allready has heavy oil refinerys, they've been taking in venezuelas and mexicos bitumin for years.


On an environmental note... I used to live in BC, it's a place where you don't have to buy bottled water when you go in the woods, you stop at a creek and have a gulp of water or fill up your canteen.

the prairies are dry, not many rivers or creeks. If you spill oil in a creek in BC it'll get into a river and will make a slick all the way acrooss the province, and there's creeks everywhere in BC and gravity is not your friend there.

[bradleyk]

Originally Posted by dantonsen

.

the prairies are dry, not many rivers or creeks. If you spill oil in a creek in BC it'll get into a river and will make a slick all the way acrooss the province, and there's creeks everywhere in BC and gravity is not your friend there.

You make a good point.

Let's see....

Alberta Lakes
Alberta Rivers
Saskatchewan Rivers
Saskatchewan Lakes
Manitoba Lakes
Manitoba Rivers

Course, these are only the NAMED ones. Manitoba alone has over 110,000 lakes. Good thing we only transport oil in those dry prairies! Wouldn't want oil to get into a body of water! Not disputing that BC has a lot of water, but let's be factual here.

[pogo]

Originally Posted by bradleyk

You make a good point.

Let's see....

Alberta Lakes
Alberta Rivers
Saskatchewan Rivers
Saskatchewan Lakes
Manitoba Lakes

Manitoba Rivers

Course, these are only the NAMED ones. Manitoba alone has over 110,000 lakes. Good thing we only transport oil in those dry prairies! Wouldn't want oil to get into a body of water! Not disputing that BC has a lot of water, but let's be factual here.

Where's your ocean? And all this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aO4s4P7eFk4

In B.C. they don't count puddles.

[dantonsen]

Originally Posted by bradleyk

You make a good point.

Let's see....

Alberta Lakes
Alberta Rivers
Saskatchewan Rivers
Saskatchewan Lakes
Manitoba Lakes
Manitoba Rivers

Course, these are only the NAMED ones. Manitoba alone has over 110,000 lakes. Good thing we only transport oil in those dry prairies! Wouldn't want oil to get into a body of water! Not disputing that BC has a lot of water, but let's be factual here.

hmmm, when I drive to southern AB from edmonton I think there's a creek that warrants a large culvert somewhere between here and red deer, the bow river in calgary and pincher creek or the old man river as I head into BC? that's what 3 rivers/creeks?? I can drive out to lloyd with out crossing a bridge. Seems pretty dry to me....


where I lived in BC I could drive 5kms without crossing a bridge and there's always a river or a lake or the very least a rip roaring creek in every valley bottom or draw.

[bradleyk]

Originally Posted by dantonsen

hmmm, when I drive to southern AB from edmonton I think there's a creek that warrants a large culvert somewhere between here and red deer, the bow river in calgary and pincher creek or the old man river as I head into BC? that's what 3 rivers/creeks?? I can drive out to lloyd with out crossing a bridge. Seems pretty dry to me....

Last time I checked the pipeline in question wasn't planned to go by Calgary or Pincher Creek.

And yes Pogo, we all know BC is on the coast and has an ocean, but that wasn't what you were originally talking about. Pretty sure you referred to rivers and lakes and those dry prairies

[4thredneck]

Originally Posted by dantonsen

hmmm, when I drive to southern AB from edmonton I think there's a creek that warrants a large culvert somewhere between here and red deer, the bow river in calgary and pincher creek or the old man river as I head into BC? that's what 3 rivers/creeks?? I can drive out to lloyd with out crossing a bridge. Seems pretty dry to me....


where I lived in BC I could drive 5kms without crossing a bridge and there's always a river or a lake or the very least a rip roaring creek in every valley bottom or draw.

You don't think landscape might play a part in this. Why would you build a road across a river in Alberta if you don't have to? There is only so many places to build roads in B.C. and I don't think they are going to build roads to avoid rivers.

[darius]

we need this pipe line .

how else am I gonna keep makin 200k a year so i can buy my jacked up diesel and idle it all day , quad , sled , travel trailor , etc , et c, etc.. . Wit all my payments I barely get by now , so with more export I could make more !

and if your an exec of one of the big oil companies how else are they gonna keep the big 500 k bonuses rolling , we need to export more . they have bills and expenses to you know .

I want more , the only way I can get more is we have to export more oil , who cares if it jeopardises 2 of the most prestine water sheds in the world .

china is thursty so let them drink !

[dantonsen]

Originally Posted by 4thredneck

You don't think landscape might play a part in this. Why would you build a road across a river in Alberta if you don't have to? There is only so many places to build roads in B.C. and I don't think they are going to build roads to avoid rivers.

you could build a road any which direction in the prairies and not hit much water, maybe a few swamps or sloughs...Swamps, sloughs and availibility of borrow pits are more or less what determines the route of a road in AB same goes for pipelines. less swamo=less cost

You highlight the exact and largest problem with pipelines of that magnitude in BC.... Pipelines like roads have to follow river valleys otherwise the cost of building and compression would be un-economical.

Cutting along the mountain side like a road means cutting across every creek and stream that flows down the mountains... Being a down hill environment oil will flow down hill VIA the power of gravity into rivers and lakes below as every valley in BC has a lake or river.

The pipeline starts in Brudeheim AB, it'll cross the N sask, maybe the sturgeon, and the athabasca and a few others on the AB side.... each crossing is maybe 50-100 meters?

Now once you get into the mountains and start getting restricted to the valleys and mountainsides you have hundreds and hundreds of miles of potential places where if that line bursts it'll get into water... Remember gravity-mountain-oil-water... It's not going to flow up the mountain away from the water down below. Go for a drive in BC and take a look at the terrain, it's rough going punching road/line in even if you follow the river and creek valleys/draws.

The spill in water potential is 1000's of times greater in BC because of the amount of line exposed to areas where oil can get into water, the prairies you go over dry land for hundreds of miles then go acroos a river. Alot of times with the easy to deal with soil here you can directionally bore right under the waterway.

I spent alot of time working on heavy oil developements and yeah... that stuff bursts lines, it's like pumping molasses.

My paycheque comes from the two largest producers in ftmac so I'm not against the stuff but there are better options to get this stuff sold than making turds out of ourselves punching pipelines through places like BC. I just hope it takes the spot light for awhile so transcanada can sneak the keystone through while everyone moans about this one,